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3rd place league tournament
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Drakeslayer wrote: I think I've figured out what Unholy Essence is for (for the Inexorable).
It's for bloat drones with heavy blight launchers. Which are Assault weapons. So it can advance and fire these without penalty.
But if they really wanted to make that at all viable, they would have given us some sort of Discolord-style +1 to hit for Daemon Engines. It's an incredibly weak and niche role for this strat, but it does still work in 9th Ed.
I think it is even more likely that IA is changing for us I’m the next edition. It is already a useless chapter trait, but in 9th it is even more useless.
Oddly enough very few DG have bolt pistols to replace with wormspitter the army. Only the chaos lord/sorcerer, Surgeon, and Plague can can use it. Only the chaos lord hits on a 2. The good thing you can extend the range since it is a plague weapon with the range to 20”. If it hits a target it is a very huge damage bonus for Poxwalkers. 20 of them now can benefit from blades of putrefaction power, veterans of the long war strategem, a tallyman nearby with The Tally Relic (exploding 6s), and arch contaminator trait will delete a knight in one round of combat (it is stupid good).
I wondered about this but the wormspitter text grants the benefits of a plague weapon to the attacker rather than gives their weapon the plague weapon keyword so we'll need to see how that gets FAQ'd.
It says other friendly DG units so it was intended to everyone to gain the benefit.
I'm not quite sure what you mean here? Obviously it's intended to give the benefit of a plague weapon to any DG unit attacking the effected event unit, but given it grants them benefits, rather than gives them the plague weapon keyword, I'm not convinced that arch contaminator or blades of putefaction's MW component will work.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/17 23:39:57
Oddly enough very few DG have bolt pistols to replace with wormspitter the army. Only the chaos lord/sorcerer, Surgeon, and Plague can can use it. Only the chaos lord hits on a 2. The good thing you can extend the range since it is a plague weapon with the range to 20”. If it hits a target it is a very huge damage bonus for Poxwalkers. 20 of them now can benefit from blades of putrefaction power, veterans of the long war strategem, a tallyman nearby with The Tally Relic (exploding 6s), and arch contaminator trait will delete a knight in one round of combat (it is stupid good).
I wondered about this but the wormspitter text grants the benefits of a plague weapon to the attacker rather than gives their weapon the plague weapon keyword so we'll need to see how that gets FAQ'd.
It says other friendly DG units so it was intended to everyone to gain the benefit.
I'm not quite sure what you mean here? Obviously it's intended to give the benefit of a plague weapon to any DG unit attacking the effected event unit, but given it grants them benefits, rather than gives them the plague weapon keyword, I'm not convinced that arch contaminator or blades of putefaction's MW component will work.
It says the firer gains the plague weapons ability, so yes they gain all the benefits of plague weapons. Unless they FAQ it, which if they did why wouldn’t they have made it allow units to reroll ones to wound vs granting plague weapons ability.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/18 12:08:46
Oddly enough very few DG have bolt pistols to replace with wormspitter the army. Only the chaos lord/sorcerer, Surgeon, and Plague can can use it. Only the chaos lord hits on a 2. The good thing you can extend the range since it is a plague weapon with the range to 20”. If it hits a target it is a very huge damage bonus for Poxwalkers. 20 of them now can benefit from blades of putrefaction power, veterans of the long war strategem, a tallyman nearby with The Tally Relic (exploding 6s), and arch contaminator trait will delete a knight in one round of combat (it is stupid good).
I wondered about this but the wormspitter text grants the benefits of a plague weapon to the attacker rather than gives their weapon the plague weapon keyword so we'll need to see how that gets FAQ'd.
It says other friendly DG units so it was intended to everyone to gain the benefit.
I'm not quite sure what you mean here? Obviously it's intended to give the benefit of a plague weapon to any DG unit attacking the effected event unit, but given it grants them benefits, rather than gives them the plague weapon keyword, I'm not convinced that arch contaminator or blades of putefaction's MW component will work.
It says the fiercer gains the plague weapons ability so yes AC and all the benefits of plague weapons apply. Unless they FAQ it, which if theN did then why not just write it as allow units to reroll ones vs granting plague weapons
In hindsight, I read it as giving the weapon the abilities of a plague weapon, rather than the plague weapon ability, so I probably do come down on the side of it all working.
Why would they even reference plague weapons if they don't want us to use it as an enabler?
"Re-roll ones to wound" would have been much easier.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
I really hope to get the new 9th edition point so I can start making some lists. Some seriously good options now if points don’t go up to much on units.
I am also hoping we get a new codex soon so we can get some of these buffs included in our units with having to pay CP. I’m also really looking forward to getting a new version of IA since literally it is the worst chapter trait in the game with the 9th edition changes. Overall this book exceeded my expectations, I thought it was going to be really bad like some other armies have had.
P.S. why do they call it psychic awakening when no one really seems to be getting psychic abilities?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/18 12:18:11
Would love to hear what my fellow Death Guard players have to say about my hour-long deep dive into all the new rules in War of the Spider! I looked into almost every new DG rule, ability, and combo. This is based on my perspective of having played Death Guard at a large number of competitive tournaments over the last three years, with an eye towards 9th Edition. I think GW mostly knocked it out of the park.
Virules wrote: Would love to hear what my fellow Death Guard players have to say about my hour-long deep dive into all the new rules in War of the Spider! I looked into almost every new DG rule, ability, and combo. This is based on my perspective of having played Death Guard at a large number of competitive tournaments over the last three years, with an eye towards 9th Edition. I think GW mostly knocked it out of the park.
Nice one. There's my entertainment sorted for tonight.
Great video, I don't agree with everything, but you clearly understand DG better than every other reviewer I have read. I listened to it until the end, and I usually prefer written reviews, so it was really interesting to keep me that long There are some smaller rules issues (for example you can't use "end of movement stratagems after deep striking), but not enough for me to bother listing them Too bad you skipped harbingers, I would really liked to have your opinion on those.
I'm really looking forward to you doing one for 9th, and there was no need for you to be so nervous at the beginning, you are doing fine
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/06/19 09:54:31
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Glad you all liked it! Make sure you Subscribe to the channel if you did, haha.
Yeah, I just don't think Harbingers are good, pending reserves changes in 9th Ed.
And I wasn't really nervous at the start, issue was primarily that I had already done the first 15 minutes in a prior broadcast attempt from a half hour earlier that I had to end early and delete because of sound loop feedback issues. Still trying to improve the production quality. I am immensely frustrated that the background graphics are low quality when I use high-res images and broadcast in HD. I am going to contact help support from the software I use.
I'm hearing talk of T8 PM. +1 for Fabius Bile, +1 for Putrescent Vitality and another magical one which I can't figure out from what people are saying.
With everything else they've got access to (2+ next to MBH, 5++ with bell relic, 4+++ with Putrid Fecundity, rerolling 1s and 2s with Alembichal Narthecium), T8 PM would be nigh on impossible to budge. Even at T7 they'd be nuts.
20 CC bearing down on you would be crazy tough to deal with. Granted, to do that you'd be looking at 4CP but I think I'd happily pay that.
In general, nothing stops you from using bile on DG infantry, but he needs to go into his own detachment because "Shadowy Allies" only works for CSM.
He even works on pox walkers and terminators, so there might be some fun combinations.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Each plague fleet consists of seven sepsis cohorts, which in turn consists of seven maladictums.
The paint schemes match to warbands, which are usually drawn from the members of a single maledictum, so there is no direct connection between your plague fleet and your paint scheme, except that it's extremely likely that all death guard looking the same also belong to the same plague fleet.
According to the codex, the default scheme belongs to the "Tainted Sons" whose fluff makes them fit in best with Mortarion's Anvil, if that's important to you.
If you want it fluffy, just use the plague fleet that matches your idea of your DG army best, each one has a small description of their specialties in both the codex and PA.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Oddly enough very few DG have bolt pistols to replace with wormspitter the army. Only the chaos lord/sorcerer, Surgeon, and Plague can can use it. Only the chaos lord hits on a 2. The good thing you can extend the range since it is a plague weapon with the range to 20”. If it hits a target it is a very huge damage bonus for Poxwalkers. 20 of them now can benefit from blades of putrefaction power, veterans of the long war strategem, a tallyman nearby with The Tally Relic (exploding 6s), and arch contaminator trait will delete a knight in one round of combat (it is stupid good).
I wondered about this but the wormspitter text grants the benefits of a plague weapon to the attacker rather than gives their weapon the plague weapon keyword so we'll need to see how that gets FAQ'd.
It says other friendly DG units so it was intended to everyone to gain the benefit.
I'm not quite sure what you mean here? Obviously it's intended to give the benefit of a plague weapon to any DG unit attacking the effected event unit, but given it grants them benefits, rather than gives them the plague weapon keyword, I'm not convinced that arch contaminator or blades of putefaction's MW component will work.
It says the fiercer gains the plague weapons ability so yes AC and all the benefits of plague weapons apply. Unless they FAQ it, which if theN did then why not just write it as allow units to reroll ones vs granting plague weapons
In hindsight, I read it as giving the weapon the abilities of a plague weapon, rather than the plague weapon ability, so I probably do come down on the side of it all working.
Wormspitter wrote: When resolving an attack made with this weapon, if a hit is scored, the target is corroded until the end of the turn. When resolving an attack made with a weapon by a friendly DEATH GUARD model against a corroded unit, that weapon gains the Plague Weapon ability for that attack.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Life-Eater applies.
Overwhelming Generosity does not. You check ranges before you Resolve Attacks.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/21 21:16:31
Oddly enough very few DG have bolt pistols to replace with wormspitter the army. Only the chaos lord/sorcerer, Surgeon, and Plague can can use it. Only the chaos lord hits on a 2. The good thing you can extend the range since it is a plague weapon with the range to 20”. If it hits a target it is a very huge damage bonus for Poxwalkers. 20 of them now can benefit from blades of putrefaction power, veterans of the long war strategem, a tallyman nearby with The Tally Relic (exploding 6s), and arch contaminator trait will delete a knight in one round of combat (it is stupid good).
I wondered about this but the wormspitter text grants the benefits of a plague weapon to the attacker rather than gives their weapon the plague weapon keyword so we'll need to see how that gets FAQ'd.
It says other friendly DG units so it was intended to everyone to gain the benefit.
I'm not quite sure what you mean here? Obviously it's intended to give the benefit of a plague weapon to any DG unit attacking the effected event unit, but given it grants them benefits, rather than gives them the plague weapon keyword, I'm not convinced that arch contaminator or blades of putefaction's MW component will work.
It says the fiercer gains the plague weapons ability so yes AC and all the benefits of plague weapons apply. Unless they FAQ it, which if theN did then why not just write it as allow units to reroll ones vs granting plague weapons
In hindsight, I read it as giving the weapon the abilities of a plague weapon, rather than the plague weapon ability, so I probably do come down on the side of it all working.
Wormspitter wrote: When resolving an attack made with this weapon, if a hit is scored, the target is corroded until the end of the turn. When resolving an attack made with a weapon by a friendly DEATH GUARD model against a corroded unit, that weapon gains the Plague Weapon ability for that attack.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Life-Eater applies.
Overwhelming Generosity does not. You check ranges before you Resolve Attacks.
Huh??
Automatically Appended Next Post: Does anyone have the pages that talk about what you are allowed to put in the companies? Can you put Poxwalkers in the sons of Mortarion company? I am curious if I can use the plague surgeon’s reroll ones and twos for DRs on them?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Does anyone have the pages that talk about what you are allowed to put in the companies? Can you put Poxwalkers in the sons of Mortarion company? I am curious if I can use the plague surgeon’s reroll ones and twos for DRs on them?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/22 01:42:24
You can add Poxwalkers to Mortarion's Chosen Sons company but they do not gain the MCS keyword and so cannot benefit from the Narthecium Stratagem to reroll DR rolls of 1's and 2's.
Cultists as well can be added to any company but none of the companies listed give them the <Company> keyword.
So other than cultists and pox walkers ALL other DG units benefit from the DR reroll 1's and 2's.
Not too shabby. I have Typhus and lots of pox walkers. I think the Harbingers Company is a good fit for them. Typhus can be given the warlord trait that adds models to friendly pox walkers units within 7" of him whenever HE kills a model in melee. You have to pay reinforcement points for those models but with the stratagem to bring up to 2 pox walker units on anywhere with 9" of a table edge and 9.1" from an enemy unit and the changes to OW it should be easy to get him into assault to kill things.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/22 04:23:12
I played a tank heavy IG list with a mainly consisting of:
-1x LR commander w/ punisher turret
-3x LR w/ Demolisher Cannons
-3x Hellhounds
-3x Basilisks
-2x units is plasma scions & 3x hotshot gun units
-Results: smashing win for the Death Guard
Key findings (The good):
-The upgrade to the entropy cannons now deletes enemy armor. An auto include IMHO.
-Now being able to move and fire PBCs without penalty allows you to move everything and always get key shots off
-The Ironclot Furnace is amazing and makes hard to kill units even harder
-The Lord of Contagion with 4x Auras is a beast. Some IG got close to him and he deleted them all
-The DP broke off after turn one with the Bloat Drones and wrecked everything. His fancy new sword is very good at killing stuff. The Revoltingly Resilient trait allowed him to stay alive since no supperating plate relic means he can die easy
-The Bloat Drones with flesh mowers is still a steal
-Dropping down your Blightlords and casting blades of putrefaction and using the Veterans of the Ling War & Creeping Blight strategems on them after they charge deletes anything it touches (2+ to wound a LR and MW on a 4+)
Key findings (The bad):
-Since everything is almost already plague weapons the Wormspitter was useless in this list
-Plague Marines just held back objectives and everything else moved forward. They had no role that nurglings or poxwalkers couldn’t do much cheaper.
-I would love to use the plague surgeons new DR rolls of 1 & 2 strategem, but it is locked behind the Sons of Mortarion Company, has a 3” range, and doesn’t work on Poxwalkers. So it really doesn’t work on much.
-The Contemptor Dreadnaught was focused fired turn one and it sticks he does t get a 4++ also. It was the entire reason I took the Wormspitter
-I kept thinking I wish I had the points to summon Epidemus or a had one of the new Great Unclean Ones
-Having to spend 8 CP before the game started to get stuff that should already be included was annoying.
List updates? Well this is certainly not a optimized list. It is very survivable and does a good amount of shooting and melee damage. The 44”x 60”, no universal overwatch, and vehicles getting to move and shoot without penalty were huge bonuses to the DG! The game feels much more mobile now and has more action. I am still looking for ways to improve the list and wouldn’t mind adding some Defilers if their points are good (but giving them DR costs a lot).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jivardi wrote: You can add Poxwalkers to Mortarion's Chosen Sons company but they do not gain the MCS keyword and so cannot benefit from the Narthecium Stratagem to reroll DR rolls of 1's and 2's.
Cultists as well can be added to any company but none of the companies listed give them the <Company> keyword.
So other than cultists and pox walkers ALL other DG units benefit from the DR reroll 1's and 2's.
Well infantry that is. So Plague Marines, Terminators, Possesed, and Characters. If they made it have a 7” range maybe it would have been useful, but 3” is blah. He is just too slow and it has too short of range to be of any use. If you were going to make a Death Star unit you would just use cloud of flies anyways.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/22 04:24:35
broxus wrote: Does anyone have the pages that talk about what you are allowed to put in the companies? Can you put Poxwalkers in the sons of Mortarion company? I am curious if I can use the plague surgeon’s reroll ones and twos for DRs on them?
Poxwalkers, Cultists and named characters don't get the <PLAGUE COMPANY> Keyword unless the corresponding plague company explicitly says so. Pox walkers (and Typhus) only benefit from harbingers.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jivardi wrote: You can add Poxwalkers to Mortarion's Chosen Sons company but they do not gain the MCS keyword and so cannot benefit from the Narthecium Stratagem to reroll DR rolls of 1's and 2's.
Cultists as well can be added to any company but none of the companies listed give them the <Company> keyword.
So other than cultists and pox walkers ALL other DG units benefit from the DR reroll 1's and 2's.
Careful, the Alembichial Nartheticum only works for INFANTRY, so vehicles near it get no re-rolls at all, as it replaces the regular one.
Not too shabby. I have Typhus and lots of pox walkers. I think the Harbingers Company is a good fit for them. Typhus can be given the warlord trait that adds models to friendly pox walkers units within 7" of him whenever HE kills a model in melee. You have to pay reinforcement points for those models but with the stratagem to bring up to 2 pox walker units on anywhere with 9" of a table edge and 9.1" from an enemy unit and the changes to OW it should be easy to get him into assault to kill things.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/22 11:03:44
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Given you were against a shooty, artillery heavy list, did you feel the lack of speed (which is the DGs biggest weakness) was after the update?
We played the spearhead assault mission normally the worst mission against IG. With the table now being 12” shorter I was fully in combat turn 2. I could use cover to block LOS to most of my key units so the terrain rules really helped. My bloat drones, DP, and Blightlord Terminators deep striking are fast and put immense early pressure and is about half my list points wise. My army really can soak up damage especially with that 4++ save. The smaller tables gets you right into the action early.
Wormspitter, Arch-Contaminator and Blades of Putrefaction look like a winning combination.
With this even 10 15 cultists can be dangerous, doing a bit of theoryhammer with the following setup:
10 15 Cultists armed with brutal assault weapons.
Warlord trait: Arch-Contaminator
Relic : Wormspitter
Spells : Prescience, Blades of Putrefaction
Stratagems : Veterans of the Long War, Creeping Blight, Parasitic Fumes on a MBH unit
Aura : Tallyman's Festering Zealot.
Cultists charge an infantry unit (T4, Sv 3+) that has been already hit by Wormspitter.
9 cultists with 3 attacks and 4 for the leader, with Hateful Assault 14 cultists with 2 attacks and 3 for the leader
Attacks : 31
WS 3+ with Prescience, re-roll with Tallyman's Festering Zealot
Hit : 28
Wound normally on 5+, with Veterans of the Long War and Blades of Putrefaction goes to 3+, re-roll with Arch-Contaminator for Plague Weapons. 6 of these are now -4 AP with Creeping Blight. 12 mortal wounds on a 5+.
Wound : 24
Parasitic Fumes give -1 AP, 18 saves at 4+. 6 saves are at -5 AP, no save
Armour : 15
15 normal damage, 12 mortal wounds due to Blades of Putrefaction with Veterans of the Long War
Damage : 27
A theoretical 27 damage against a single infantry unit is interesting.
Using the same approach, 10 15 cultists can take down a Baneblade (T8, Sv 3+, W26). Half of the damage is mortal wounds.
EDIT : Removed hateful assault and added additional cultists to compensate, correcting the error pointed out below.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/23 07:23:41
Not entirely sure, and overall the damage output is impressive if expensive CP wise, but I don't think Cultist get Hateful Assault.
Also yes if we get all of that off it is scary but parasitic fumes especially will be very situational since it has such a short range. Would have been better if they gave a 7" -1 ap aura to nearby friendlies which is how I read it initially.
An old piece of MtG wisdom says that the more parts your combo has, the less likely it is to succeed.
A plague marine unit with melee weapons and a third of those buffs will do just as well.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
With War of the Spider and what we know of 9th, anyone had any thoughts of Morty?
I forget what it's called but can we spend a CP to put him into reserve? He can then come down on an edge, 9" away from the enemy... if I remember it correctly.
The pros: 9" away turn 2 without need of Warptime and not on the table to be blasted off turn 1. The cons: I never make a 9" charge, which means he'll be blasted off the board turn 2, whereas (if he survives turn 1) Warptime all but guarantees he'll be in combat turn 2.
Suppose we don't know enough yet really. He won't benefit from the new LoS rules, having too many wounds. Undoubtedly his points will be rising as well. Just hope he becomes playable again. The beginning of 8th was a riot with him.
