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Manreapers went down by 2, so the death shrouds only went up by 5. Considering how my opponent are now all trying to snipe my arch-contaminator to make my army fall apart, I'm seriously considering bringing three to protect my warlord.
Other than that, the defilers look really tasty now. With scourge and auto-cannon it's just 140, 170 for lascannons. Put DR on it, protect with 4++ and have it regenerate a wound every turn.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/13 23:15:13
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Very basic question - With the movement phase as defined in 9th edition (1 move units, 2 reinforcements) - can we use cloud of flies on a unit that arrives from deepstrike? Alternatively if the unit is deployed as reinforcements using CP does it impact the ability to use cloud of flies?
orkswubwub wrote: Very basic question - With the movement phase as defined in 9th edition (1 move units, 2 reinforcements) - can we use cloud of flies on a unit that arrives from deepstrike? Alternatively if the unit is deployed as reinforcements using CP does it impact the ability to use cloud of flies?
The reinforcement step is part of the movement phase, so I see no reason why this wouldn't be the case.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
orkswubwub wrote: Very basic question - With the movement phase as defined in 9th edition (1 move units, 2 reinforcements) - can we use cloud of flies on a unit that arrives from deepstrike? Alternatively if the unit is deployed as reinforcements using CP does it impact the ability to use cloud of flies?
The reinforcement step is part of the movement phase, so I see no reason why this wouldn't be the case.
I think it has something to do with blightlord terminators teleportarium strike coming in at the 'end of the movement phase' - some TO have ruled the unit technically can't be a target as the movement phase ends after the unit comes in.
Castozor wrote: That´s nonsense though because unless you are in the psychic phase you are logically still in the movement phase.
In 8th there was a FAQ clarifying that you cannot use "during movement phase" stratagems on units arriving from deep strike.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/14 15:17:50
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Jidmah wrote: This was true in 8th, but the rules have changed.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Castozor wrote: That´s nonsense though because unless you are in the psychic phase you are logically still in the movement phase.
In 8th there was a FAQ clarifying that you cannot use "during movement phase" stratagems on units arriving from deep strike.
Thanks Jidmah this is exactly what I was referring to - I'm still kind of lost in all the new rules of 9th but was wondering if this has been applied forward with all the latest FAQ renewals etc. Was this issued in designers commentary or in an actual FAQ? Would you be able to point me towards the source?
There is no real source, besides the absence of a FAQ that disallows using movement phase stratagems during the reinforcement step - which is now part a part of the movement phase.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/14 17:08:18
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Castozor wrote: I did not know about that FAQ, but then I never really used cloud on my termies anyway. Guess we will have to wait for GW to clarify then for 9th.
Why? The rule is clear. Reinforcements arrive during the movement phase. Cloud of Flies can be used at any point during the movement phase.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Castozor wrote: I did not know about that FAQ, but then I never really used cloud on my termies anyway. Guess we will have to wait for GW to clarify then for 9th.
Why? The rule is clear. Reinforcements arrive during the movement phase. Cloud of Flies can be used at any point during the movement phase.
I always assumed end of movement phase was the movement phase too, so maybe the FAQ was intended design. Going by that assumption I think we might get a further clarification is all. As it stands you are right rules are clear.
For anyone interested, I did an analysis on my YouTube channel yesterday on how to play Chaos in 9th Edition based on all the new points changes and FAQs:
From my experience with mock-9th so far (playing 9th with 20% less points), if have found that much of how we play games today will be invalidated, the game will be a completely new one. Strategies we were using in 9th have become invalid, some outright traps that will cause you to lose the game.
Getting onto objectives and staying there, performing actions and denying your opponent his points will be vastly more important that killing stuff. Smaller boards and missions with central objectives make it much harder to find good spots to deep strike, while terrain makes it easier to have cover and harder to hide out of LOS since magic boxes are gone. Obscuring terrain helps as much as it hurts and ruins now help people getting charged inside them. Charging into a unit of plague marines with a flail that is covered by a foul blightspawn's aura can easily end in that unit being mostly dead before it even gets to strike.
Honestly, from the few games I have played, I find it hard to tell whether DG will play a major or minor role in this new game. When playing against space marines it still feels like they are just better at everything we do, so point costs will play a major role for us, and I don't think we have found the best combos from war of the spider yet.
We played a ton of games over the weekend with the same idea (9th ed rules using 8th ed points but play at 850 instead of 1000 and 1850 instead of 2000) and I think Jidmah is right. I mentioned a page or two back that my DG is primarily footslogging. That was 8th. I brought my Tsons to the weekend games but based on that experience, my footslogging horde of DG would have lost every game. Badly. That's the bad news.
The good news is, I'm pretty confident I just have to retool with some Rhinos and add in a few more mobile units and everything will be fine. I think if you're looking at 9th and trying to use footslogging, slow Death Guard, you're in trouble, but they should be half way decent if you adjust to the new paradigm of grabbing objectives quickly and holding them as long as you can.
Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug
Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..."
wow just revisiting my DG for 9th and redoing my lists.
The sheer weight of stratagems DG now have! i normally pick out the ones i can use and sumerise them on my army list in order of most useful to least useful.
I'v basically got this swathe of text!
Spoiler:
Strats:
1cp Blight: All models fire blight grenades
1cp Cloud: INF unit can only target if closest
1cp vet: INF +1 to wound phase
1cp extra attack with plague knives
1cp +1dmg in combat and 6 to wound is -4
1cp within one uit 7" of blight hauler +1ap to all weps
1cp in combat plague weapons auto wound on 6 to hit
2cp give defiler disgusting resitient
1cp Shoot when falling back with daemon engine <poxmonger>
1cp If kill mode with daemon engine in combat d3 wounds <poxmonger>
2cp Bless: INF d3 wounds or a model back
1cp Exp: Vehicle auto explodes
1cp Blas: Move fire vehicle hw no penalty
1cp: Fam: Replace psy power
3cp Rot: 7" char roll dice on 4+ d3 MW 1cp Plague marines on a 6 to wound -4 bolters
1/2cp Inf rapid fire 2 bolters, 2cp if over 5mods
2/3cp +1 plague marine disgust res, 3cp if over 10
1cp if die within 3" that mode is -1 to hit
2cp within 1" of plague marines -1 t
1cp Entropy cannon on plague burst within 7" always fo min 3 wounds
dont get me wrong choice is good, but how do you guys manage what you are using in games? Seems like there are so many situational strats now its easy to loose track.
Perhaps you have recipes of strats you combine and only use them if you combine them?
From my experience with mock-9th so far (playing 9th with 20% less points), if have found that much of how we play games today will be invalidated, the game will be a completely new one. Strategies we were using in 9th have become invalid, some outright traps that will cause you to lose the game.
Getting onto objectives and staying there, performing actions and denying your opponent his points will be vastly more important that killing stuff. Smaller boards and missions with central objectives make it much harder to find good spots to deep strike, while terrain makes it easier to have cover and harder to hide out of LOS since magic boxes are gone. Obscuring terrain helps as much as it hurts and ruins now help people getting charged inside them. Charging into a unit of plague marines with a flail that is covered by a foul blightspawn's aura can easily end in that unit being mostly dead before it even gets to strike.
Honestly, from the few games I have played, I find it hard to tell whether DG will play a major or minor role in this new game. When playing against space marines it still feels like they are just better at everything we do, so point costs will play a major role for us, and I don't think we have found the best combos from war of the spider yet.
We played a ton of games over the weekend with the same idea (9th ed rules using 8th ed points but play at 850 instead of 1000 and 1850 instead of 2000) and I think Jidmah is right. I mentioned a page or two back that my DG is primarily footslogging. That was 8th. I brought my Tsons to the weekend games but based on that experience, my footslogging horde of DG would have lost every game. Badly. That's the bad news.
The good news is, I'm pretty confident I just have to retool with some Rhinos and add in a few more mobile units and everything will be fine. I think if you're looking at 9th and trying to use footslogging, slow Death Guard, you're in trouble, but they should be half way decent if you adjust to the new paradigm of grabbing objectives quickly and holding them as long as you can.
So weird i said early on this would be the mech edition and i'v never understood FS DG armies because since i started my army in 2007 they'v always been fully mechanised.
They'v done well for me like this in every edition since then. A rhino gives you speed to get to an obj and makes plague marines that much harder to shift because they are not taking punishment early on or at least the first turn.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/15 09:19:18
Abaddon303 wrote: I'm guessing we really need the day one FAQ but do we know what sort of cover the myphitic blighthauler will grant? I'm inclined to say it really should be dense cover rather than light or heavy. Would mean his buff becomes -1 to hit and would presumably stack with +1 save from light cover ruins etc.
Will make the little trucks pretty useful no?
This has been solved by the way - the rare rules section specifies that rules providing the benefit of cover despite not being terrain counts as light terrain.
So +1 armor it is, and no stacking with other terrain.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So many relics now I'm struggling to pick three from:
Fugaris Helm
Suppurating Plate
Ironclot Furnace
Epidemicyst Blade
Daemon's Toll
How do others rate them? I'm most inclined to drop the helm as it's only 3"
There's so much to go through now, I'm trying to identify whether any warlord traits or pregame strats can give similar upgrades as obviously each of those is 1CP where as a third relic effectively costs 2CP.
Certainly, a plague surgeon rerolling 1s and 2s for plague weapons probably gives greater coverage than using Fugaris Helm to extend arch contaminator and much of the time you're looking to wound on 3+ anyway...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/15 12:36:17
Automatically Appended Next Post: So many relics now I'm struggling to pick three from:
Fugaris Helm
Suppurating Plate
Ironclot Furnace
Epidemicyst Blade
Daemon's Toll
How do others rate them? I'm most inclined to drop the helm as it's only 3"
There's so much to go through now, I'm trying to identify whether any warlord traits or pregame strats can give similar upgrades as obviously each of those is 1CP where as a third relic effectively costs 2CP.
Certainly, a plague surgeon rerolling 1s and 2s for plague weapons probably gives greater coverage than using Fugaris Helm to extend arch contaminator and much of the time you're looking to wound on 3+ anyway...
I really think we do have some great relic options now. I really like the furnace, suppurating plate, new daemon prince sword, and Fulgrim helm. It depends on the type of list I build on what I use. I think right now mech lists are our strongest (see my list above). Since playing 9th edition games with a list similar I have won every game by a landslide.
Your obsec units are very slow and won't have staying power. Also, this list is really short ranged outside of the Demon engines. The way 9th works, many armies will be able to dance circles around this. You will be second to objectives every time, and you don't have enough offensive punch to reliably push anyone off the table.
I really think this is going to be an edition where Plague Marines in Rhinos shine. I would try to get two MSU squads in to this.Throw a FBS in each as well for extra close-in support and maybe two winged DPs instead of the LoC which is bad in 8th and only looking to be worse in 9th IMO.
Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug
Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..."
Automatically Appended Next Post: So many relics now I'm struggling to pick three from:
Fugaris Helm
Suppurating Plate
Ironclot Furnace
Epidemicyst Blade
Daemon's Toll
How do others rate them? I'm most inclined to drop the helm as it's only 3"
There's so much to go through now, I'm trying to identify whether any warlord traits or pregame strats can give similar upgrades as obviously each of those is 1CP where as a third relic effectively costs 2CP.
Certainly, a plague surgeon rerolling 1s and 2s for plague weapons probably gives greater coverage than using Fugaris Helm to extend arch contaminator and much of the time you're looking to wound on 3+ anyway...
I agree on the helm. Having a surgeon as mini-contaminator seems a much better solution.
My preference would probably be Epidemicyst Blade followed by toll and furnace. Might drop one or the other depending on army composition to have more CP for stratagems. 2CP go a long way for DG now.
In one of my game The Ferryman’s Scythe also did good work for me, a LoC with that thing destroys anything he touches. Ferrymen don't make much sense unless you are bringing a blight lord plasma bomb though.
Has anyone tried super-charging helbrutes yet? Daemons Toll+Contaminated Monstrocity makes them as durable as a daemon engine and Fire Frenzy+Fire Fever gives you four lascannon shots and two ML shots with re-rolling hits.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Anyone tried the rotten veil with like a deep striking termi lord and summoning like 20 plague bearers?
Also what's the furnace play? Simple lord? I wanna run one with blight hauliers a pdc and a defiler but worried itll limit them into an clumped castle esp the hauliers giving cover bonuses
Furnace carrier has been a problem I've been figuring out myself. I'm settling on a walking DP. Wings are too expensive but walking still has an 8" move. This let's them keep up with the demon engines you want to protect.
Other options like base lords and Plaguecasters are sniper bait or trade re-rolls for psychic or vice versa. DP does both.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/15 14:30:24
I like the return to vehicle spam. I know vehicles weren't that great in 8th edition but I got kind of bored watching the same DG lists over and over again. Everything walks up the board, only vehicles on the table were PBC's (maybe drones or MBH's).
I can see the Rhino wall returning. It was a very popular and annoying thing in 3r, 4th and 5th even back when Rhinos were more likely than not one shotted by lascannons and multimeltas.
3xpbc 2xFBD with fleshmower pd with furnace pd archcontaminator+relic sword, 3x7 plagues+flail 2x spawn, biologus and 3x rhino, could worth a try
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The plan is simple.
Nurglings grab and defend/deny objectives early on. The GUO + the strat Nurglings Infestation + Fleshy abundance make them a pain to shift. They are very point efficient, imho.
The MBHs are the star of the list. In total they have 72 wounds, with a 4+, 5++, at T7. 9 multi melta, 9 MLs and 9d3 bile spurts. The GUO can resurrect one model with the bell (or the nurglings), and/or heal the others. The poxmongers strat might also help. And they are "fast", able to reach objectives by tur 2.
As the game now requires to "split" forces, ideally 6 MBH go with the DP and 1 Foul blightspawn; the GUO, 3 MBH e the other Foul blightspawn go to the other objective; nurglings where needed
Would this be viable? And what should I add to make this a viable 2000 pts list?
@SatanEatSeitan - what’s your plan for holding your home objective? Most of the 9ed games I’ve seen have been decided by capturing the middle - you can probably do that - and holding your line. I can see an infantry gunline holding you off whilst a cheeky deep strike or outflank scores a touchdown.
A Gnarlmaw might be handy. Being able to advance a load of haulers could help tag an objective at the start, and even get a cheeky T1 charge. And it helps make your home objective toxic.
(a) PMs, but they are now rather expensive and needs a lot of synergies to operate
Played a few games of 9th last night with my DG. Had two squads of PMs in Rhinos along with a Plague Surgeon and a FBB. I was playing Mortarion's Chosen Sons. The Rhinos got them to the objectives quickly, and re-rolling 1s and 2s on DRs helped quite a bit. Also ran a bell-boy up the board to support on of the squads using the Demon's Toll so they had a 5+ invuln as well. On turn 2 I summoned Plague Bearers around each of those two objectives. This is similar to how I've played my Tsons in previous games and it was equally powerful. They were super hard to shift, and I also had a large squad of Cultists supported by a Demon prince and some MBHs, holding a third objective. Also used "Raise the Banners".
I know they went up in points but with the right buffs, Plague Marines in Rhinos are going to be tough this edition. So far, I feel like GW actually did a decent job of making it worth it to use them again. They'll also be necessary. It's an edition about SPEED.
EDIT:
To be clear because I didn't specify - I know you can only use the reroll strat on ONE Plague Surgeon. I wanted to have identical units so I could compare actual results with and without the strat in the same game. I can't math-hammer so this is as scientific as I get. lol
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/16 13:46:05
Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug
Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..."
The temptation with PMs is to go all-in and field large foot-slogging squads. According to other feedbacks, this is not very efficient, all things considered.
A better alternative may be that of running smaller squads in rhinos + supporting characters.
Did you give the rhinos DR? And how many plague bearers did you summon?
