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Yeah that’s exactly my issue. I can’t have a cool looking list but have it perform well. And I can’t fit everything I like into my lists. Most other armies I make I can chuck in everything and I’m happy. But I’ve been struggling, since they first came out, to put in all the stuff I like but also have it work well.

The only possible solution I've found is smaller sized games with different lists. My gaming group is stuck on 2000 pts being the norm. We also play Maelstrom missions so every list has to be adaptive to the Drunken Commander board jumping. And, w usually just do pick up games on our Gaming night so lists have to be TAC also. Even still, my CSM and Death Guard armies have never been in a better place. My other 2 armies, Orks and Biker Space Marines are Shelved indefinitely.

my tournament experiences with a pure Dg list are unfair, you need mix, Dg and alpha legion works great togheter,some hard hitters which can take lot of punishment and some infantry mass infiltrate and annoy opponent, giving screen for ds and unwilling charges and when needed some cheap cannon fodder.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
The only possible solution I've found is smaller sized games with different lists. My gaming group is stuck on 2000 pts being the norm. We also play Maelstrom missions so every list has to be adaptive to the Drunken Commander board jumping. And, w usually just do pick up games on our Gaming night so lists have to be TAC also. Even still, my CSM and Death Guard armies have never been in a better place. My other 2 armies, Orks and Biker Space Marines are Shelved indefinitely.

Want good missions?

Run one maelstrom and one eternal war together simultaneously. Nerf speedy armies by only allowing three maelstrom cards to be scored per turn and don't allow scoring duplicates in the same turn.

Works pretty well.

Hey all, I have some questions about building a list for all of my pus ridden brethren.

I’m hoping to build a list with as much of the current bits I have. (Both the Dark Vengeance box set and Dark Imperium)
I had a few questions about some other models I had laying about that if possible I would like to include here.

I have 2 Rhino’s, that I could nurglify, but is it worth having them? (I’d have two units of 7 from the sets).
I have a Plagueburst Crawler also, and an additional 40 cultists (bringing it up to 60 from the set).

How much of this is realistically usable?
I’m thinking of 1000 (and 1500 points at the most) currently, but in time maybe 2k using Mortarion.
If you are unfamiliar with the contents of the starters, once I get home I will write all this up into a list.

Thanks in advance!

anything you listed is usable, 7+7 Pm's in rhino are common, cultists are a must pbc are good and durable but i prefer bloated drones honestly.

Bloat Drones are awesome, but PBCs fill a completely different role. Drones wreck infantry and light vehicles, but they won't really do much against T8 stuff by themselves. That's where Crawlers come in

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Yeah that’s exactly my issue. I can’t have a cool looking list but have it perform well. And I can’t fit everything I like into my lists. Most other armies I make I can chuck in everything and I’m happy. But I’ve been struggling, since they first came out, to put in all the stuff I like but also have it work well.

Same here. Speaking of, now that we can apparently deep strike Morty, there's a Nurgle Daemons detachment for me to shove in as well.

 Luciferian wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Yeah that’s exactly my issue. I can’t have a cool looking list but have it perform well. And I can’t fit everything I like into my lists. Most other armies I make I can chuck in everything and I’m happy. But I’ve been struggling, since they first came out, to put in all the stuff I like but also have it work well.

Same here. Speaking of, now that we can apparently deep strike Morty, there's a Nurgle Daemons detachment for me to shove in as well.

Yeah that’s what I’ve been trying to do myself haha. I think I’ll keep the daemon side fairly light, taking mostly plaguebearers and nurglings. Deepstriking mortarion is going to awesome though

Kzraahk wrote:
Bloat Drones are awesome, but PBCs fill a completely different role. Drones wreck infantry and light vehicles, but they won't really do much against T8 stuff by themselves. That's where Crawlers come in

hoenstly pbc are too unreliable to wreack veichles they hit on 4+ and they cant move, or they suck points for stratagem, too much armies has a -1 to hit. When i played pbc i gave it plaguespitters as well. If you want deal with tanks you need to play terminators or Dp's or ally vanilla chaos for obly/havocs/predators, im playing Dg since the day codex came out and they will always lack ranged anti tank.

 blackmage wrote:

Kzraahk wrote:
Bloat Drones are awesome, but PBCs fill a completely different role. Drones wreck infantry and light vehicles, but they won't really do much against T8 stuff by themselves. That's where Crawlers come in

hoenstly pbc are too unreliable to wreack veichles they hit on 4+ and they cant move, or they suck points for stratagem, too much armies has a -1 to hit. When i played pbc i gave it plaguespitters as well. If you want deal with tanks you need to play terminators or Dp's or ally vanilla chaos for obly/havocs/predators, im playing Dg since the day codex came out and they will always lack ranged anti tank.

Mine have been wrecking tanks pretty reliably. I bring 3 with a lord for the rerolls. On average they delete a dreadnought or a tank per turn. Which is a fine pace considering they're very hard to remove and so is the rest of my army. I usually spend a command point to reroll the number of shots on an especially low roll. At that point they're rerolling 1's to hit. Rerolling failed wounds thanks to arch contaminator. And rerolling low numbers of shots.

start play with fast armies giving you -1/-2 to hit and lets see, that's what you find at major tournaments.

 blackmage wrote:
start play with fast armies giving you -1/-2 to hit and lets see, that's what you find at major tournaments.

I play my dg v a LOT of -1 to hit (stygies admech, AL marines, De, etc.) And even hitting on 5s my 3 pbc have always been worth it.

I play tournaments and tournament level players as well and I still bring two PBCs. In fact, I find the best combo with 2 PBCs, 2-5 man plague marine squads with blight launchers, and a cheap chaos lord (archcontamintor warlord) to from my firebase. They are re-rolling ones and re-rolling almost all wounds.

Even against altioc eldar they still hit well enough and are super points efficient with entropy cannons at 146. PBCs always draw a lot of firepower which is that much less at my other units.

 buddha wrote:
I play tournaments and tournament level players as well and I still bring two PBCs. In fact, I find the best combo with 2 PBCs, 2-5 man plague marine squads with blight launchers, and a cheap chaos lord (archcontamintor warlord) to from my firebase. They are re-rolling ones and re-rolling almost all wounds.

Even against altioc eldar they still hit well enough and are super points efficient with entropy cannons at 146. PBCs always draw a lot of firepower which is that much less at my other units.

Thats... a cool ass strategy. I think I need to get another 2 blight launcher PM's and try this!

So are Blight Haulers actually any good? I can't decide if I want 3 of them or 2 more blight drones.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
So are Blight Haulers actually any good? I can't decide if I want 3 of them or 2 more blight drones.

Depends from the context.
How many, and which units of infantry do you have?
Which other, if any, anti-tank options do you have?

Stacked with a tree Infantry would be getting +3 cover. There has to be an efficient application for that.

Ok, so the list as it stands is below:

Chaos Lord, Plasma Pistol, Power Sword -85
Lord of Contagion, Plaguereaper -130
Malignant Plaguecaster -110

20 Cultists, Heavy stubber, flamer -93
20 Cultists, Heavy stubber, flamer -93
20 Cultists, Heavy stubber, flamer -93
20 Poxwalkers -120
7 Plague Marines, Plasma Gun -145
7 Plague Marines, ?? -119 (these are chosen from DVengeance, so unsure on setup yet.
Rhino -72
Rhino -72

Noxious Blithtbringer -65

Plagueburst Crawler, Heavy Slugger, 2 Plague Spitters ???? -140


How’s that for starters?
It comes to 1634 I think, so what would you take out to make both 1000 and 1500 points lists?
I’m guessing dropping characters for a start, and maybe drop one set of Marines and Rhino, and be rid of one set of Cultists.
That’d make about 1200ish I think.

Any thoughts and advice?
Cheers!

 Fenris-77 wrote:
Stacked with a tree Infantry would be getting +3 cover. There has to be an efficient application for that.

no only +1 they doesn't stack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Danny76 wrote:
Ok, so the list as it stands is below:

Chaos Lord, Plasma Pistol, Power Sword -85
Lord of Contagion, Plaguereaper -130
Malignant Plaguecaster -110

20 Cultists, Heavy stubber, flamer -93
20 Cultists, Heavy stubber, flamer -93
20 Cultists, Heavy stubber, flamer -93
20 Poxwalkers -120
7 Plague Marines, Plasma Gun -145
7 Plague Marines, ?? -119 (these are chosen from DVengeance, so unsure on setup yet.
Rhino -72
Rhino -72

Noxious Blithtbringer -65

Plagueburst Crawler, Heavy Slugger, 2 Plague Spitters ???? -140


How’s that for starters?
It comes to 1634 I think, so what would you take out to make both 1000 and 1500 points lists?
I’m guessing dropping characters for a start, and maybe drop one set of Marines and Rhino, and be rid of one set of Cultists.
That’d make about 1200ish I think.

Any thoughts and advice?
Cheers!

honestly i will go for Thypus and no lord of contagion, add 20 more poxes and you ok.


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [84 PL, 1413pts] ++

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 72pts]: Combi-bolter

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 72pts]: Combi-bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 146pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 93pts]: Combi-plasma, Plaguebringer, The Suppurating Plate arch contaminator, warlord

Malignant Plaguecaster [6 PL, 110pts]: Blades of Putrefaction, Plague Wind

Typhus [9 PL, 175pts]: Miasma of Pestilence, Putrescent Vitality

+ Elites +

Noxious Blightbringer [4 PL, 65pts]: Plasma pistol

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [6 PL, 80pts]: 19x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [6 PL, 80pts]: 19x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Plague Marines [10 PL, 153pts]
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plaguesword plasma gun
. 4x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

Plague Marines [10 PL, 153pts]
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plaguesword plasma gun
. 4x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

Poxwalkers [6 PL, 120pts]: 20x Poxwalker

Poxwalkers [6 PL, 120pts]: 20x Poxwalker

++ Total: [84 PL, 1439pts] ++

you still have about 60pts to spend, maybe if you like take out the malignant and some cultists for a Dp so you have some heavy CaC, or a bubotic axe+flail to each squad ofPlague marines.

Foul Blightspawn is so ridiculously effective in the pox list I can't see how you can leave home without minimum one,
And much more preferably two. Biologus Putrifier/Tallyman are also effective choices.

I think you run either vehicles or Plague Marines in 1500 with the pox element, but not both - you just can't fit it for points. The Chaos Lord is only needed with Plague Marines. Fugaris Helm + Arch Contaminator can be given to a Plaguecaster or Putrifier.

The Entropy Cannons on the crawler are awful, never a reason not to take Spitters as side sponsons.

entropy cannons can take out those annoying heavy tanks, you dont need to move it and if you do you have the stratagem, i was trying to keep the list as much as similar than the topic author did, i dont play a list like that, i play Dg+alpha legion,always.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
So are Blight Haulers actually any good? I can't decide if I want 3 of them or 2 more blight drones.

I have found mine (I have one so far) to be a great jack of all trades. The two anti-tank options are decent, but needed help from blight launchers and smite to actually kill something in one turn. Due to 10" move I never had the multi-melta out of range of my targets, and more often than not, it would find itself inside 12" of something to melt. If both weapons hit, they usually wound and do a lot of damage. A unit of 3 probably has no issues deleting whatever they feel like.

On top of that it is a good screen/counter-assault unit as it is hard to destroy in combat (-1 to hit on top of drone statline) and tends to bite the head off one or two enemies. I had it moving in front of my plague marines, so they would still be in the 7" aura and anything that wanted to assault them had to get around it, and it protected them from deep strikes from the front.

More anecdotal, it assassinated Cypher in one of my games by simply driving up to him around his screen, blasting him with multi-melta, missile launcher and bile spurt.

 blackmage wrote:
entropy cannons can take out those annoying heavy tanks, you dont need to move it and if you do you have the stratagem, i was trying to keep the list as much as similar than the topic author did, i dont play a list like that, i play Dg+alpha legion,always.

Sure, but in the author's original list he had Plague Spitters on the Crawler which you changed to Entropy Cannons, which is quite the heavy downgrade for the poxwalker style of list with Arch Contaminator

If a long range anti-tank element is required in general, much better off going with a Predator over a Plagueburst Crawler entirely. Crawler's BS4, BS5 when damaged hurts too much for AT role when opponent starts bringing -1 to hit mods and you have to move. Wasting stratagem CP point for a BS increase in very limited CP list to hit on 5s is not good. Predator with Lord starting at BS3 rerolling 1's is better.

Crawler is good with spitters in this type of list, can advance quickly with Blightbringer support to flame infantry squads to make new poxwalkers, and is always a serious threat in the role regardless of damage taken. When advancing you can hide behind it with characters/clouded infantry squad. Spitters reroll all wounds with Arch Contaminator

Difference is Preedators don't last a lot if they get focused. I've only had a PBC taken down once

While the PBC is an all rounder with entropy cannons (and a cheap fire magnet at that) there is zero reason to take a PBC if you take spitters because the bloat drone performs that role 100% better. Hell, not being able to be locked in combat alone puts the drone above the PBC if you are wanting to be close.

I don't think it can be argued that the entropy cannons are the best anti-tank with its 4+ to hit base but with them the PBC far more survivable then the predator while maintaining a good ranged multi-damage threat.

 buddha wrote:
While the PBC is an all rounder with entropy cannons (and a cheap fire magnet at that) there is zero reason to take a PBC if you take spitters because the bloat drone performs that role 100% better. Hell, not being able to be locked in combat alone puts the drone above the PBC if you are wanting to be close.

I don't think it can be argued that the entropy cannons are the best anti-tank with its 4+ to hit base but with them the PBC far more survivable then the predator while maintaining a good ranged multi-damage threat.

that's the point, if you want anti tank in a pure Dg you dont have many options, predator go down in 1 single turn, and yes spitters 100% better in bloated drones, i play always 3 of them.

Kzraahk wrote:Difference is Preedators don't last a lot if they get focused. I've only had a PBC taken down once

Sure and for that reason why would you even focus a PBC with Entropy cannons, with your own long range anti tank. It's too weak of a threat. It takes punishment well but at the same time does very little back, with what it can even hit with 36" range.

A Predator can sit back and at least threaten Eldar/RavenGuard/Alpha Legion/Dark Angels/ anything that popped smoke, T8, etc etc. Personally in a pox list I don't even bother with the Predator over Foul Blight Spawns and mortal wound givers in the horde of infantry, but if I did for some reason want a sit back and plink firebase vehicle it wouldn't be a PBC.

buddha wrote:While the PBC is an all rounder with entropy cannons (and a cheap fire magnet at that) there is zero reason to take a PBC if you take spitters because the bloat drone performs that role 100% better. Hell, not being able to be locked in combat alone puts the drone above the PBC if you are wanting to be close.

I don't think it can be argued that the entropy cannons are the best anti-tank with its 4+ to hit base but with them the PBC far more survivable then the predator while maintaining a good ranged multi-damage threat.

The PBC vs the FBD you pay less points for the privilege of more flexibility, that's a rarity. Yes the FBD has FLY keyword and +1M, but it clearly pays a heavy premium in points for that ability when you compare to the PBC cost, who has T8 to T7, +1S and +2W on a generous damage chart. 100% better FBD is beyond exaggeration, all it does is move +1" more, and FLY. It doesn't also have a no LOS mortar and Heavy Stubber (more like Heavy Bolter) it can opt to use.

PBC can chip away at range while retaining the threat of a fast advance up and using the powerful spitters. FBD has to go forward always or it does nothing.

People have tried to 'mathhammer' the Entropy Cannon PBC as being good (in comparison to range tank duels with a predator) while in the reality of a competitive 40k environment it is anything but. There is no value in a unit that is only 'good' for tank dueling without even factoring in hit modifiers and short range.
There is value in a no line of sight weapon in the PB mortar, on a tough chassis, that also has access to the really strong Dual Plague Spitter weapon.

I play both PBC and FBD in my list. They are not the same but they are both strong.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:

Kzraahk wrote:

buddha wrote:While the PBC is an all rounder with entropy cannons (and a cheap fire magnet at that) there is zero reason to take a PBC if you take spitters because the bloat drone performs that role 100% better. Hell, not being able to be locked in combat alone puts the drone above the PBC if you are wanting to be close.

I don't think it can be argued that the entropy cannons are the best anti-tank with its 4+ to hit base but with them the PBC far more survivable then the predator while maintaining a good ranged multi-damage threat.

The PBC vs the FBD you pay less points for the privilege of more flexibility, that's a rarity. Yes the FBD has FLY keyword and +1M, but it clearly pays a heavy premium in points for that ability when you compare to the PBC cost, who has T8 to T7, +1S and +2W on a generous damage chart. 100% better FBD is beyond exaggeration, all it does is move +1" more, and FLY. It doesn't also have a no LOS mortar and Heavy Stubber (more like Heavy Bolter) it can opt to use.

PBC can chip away at range while retaining the threat of a fast advance up and using the powerful spitters. FBD has to go forward always or it does nothing.

People have tried to 'mathhammer' the Entropy Cannon PBC as being good (in comparison to range tank duels with a predator) while in the reality of a competitive 40k environment it is anything but. There is no value in a unit that is only 'good' for tank dueling without even factoring in hit modifiers and short range.
There is value in a no line of sight weapon in the PB mortar, on a tough chassis, that also has access to the really strong Dual Plague Spitter weapon.

I play both PBC and FBD in my list. They are not the same but they are both strong.

With respect, you are ignoring both mathhammer (which cannot be argued with;statistics are facts) but also that trying to get close with a PBC to use plaugespitters will just lead it being locked in combat full stop. If you want plaugespitters, you take a bloat drone. If your arguments is that the PBC is bad I can understand that perspective, but if you take one you should be taking it with entropy cannons.

buddha wrote:

With respect, you are ignoring both mathhammer (which cannot be argued with;statistics are facts) but also that trying to get close with a PBC to use plaugespitters will just lead it being locked in combat full stop. If you want plaugespitters, you take a bloat drone. If your arguments is that the PBC is bad I can understand that perspective, but if you take one you should be taking it with entropy cannons.

I'm not 'ignoring mathhammer'. I understand fully the very limited mathematical scenarios some people use to make a poor case for why the Entropy Cannons are good - these people ignore too many other variables and the realities of competitive 40k/listbuilding.
The PBC on it's first damage profile can advance 9 + D6 (2 dice highest with NoxB", shoot 9" for a max 24" threat. It's not easy to prevent it firing it's Plague Spitters if it chooses to do so. Sure it *might* get locked in combat (after overwatching) the following turn, but that's the following turn: it's already done it's job for you.

I take both drone and PBC, all with spitters. Spitters are too good not to take in any scenario for current competitive meta, either underpriced relative to everything else or everything else is overpriced. Entropy Cannons cost needs to be cut in half to even meet consideration.

If you don't like the idea of your plague spitters maybe being locked in combat after firing, then take all FBDs You will pay more points to lose toughness, wounds, mortars + HBs. Paying more points to lose scenario flexibility, toughness and other firepower- not good in competitive list hlbuilding.