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“Side? I am on nobody's side, because nobody is on my side, little gue'la.” - Commander O'Shovah

As to how I think the forces of the Imperium would divide themselves in the case of a civil war?

Team [High Lords of] Terra:
Inquisitors ("... I DON'T LIKE CHANGE." *blam*)
Most of the Adeptus Mechanicus ("Not a god? He's the Omnissiah, of course he's a god!")
Most of the Ecclesiarchy ("Not a god? HEERRREEEETIIIIIIIIIIC" *chainsaw noises*)
Nobility ("That Guilliman guy seems like he'd disrupt the status quo. I like the status quo.")
Asassin Temples ("We answer to the HLoT. The HLoT call. Primarchs just make for a bigger target...")
Codex non-compliant Astartes ("...feth that pompous asshat.")
Astra Militarum if their command hasn't met with Guilliman ("Nuke the bastard from orbit. It's the only way to be sure...")

Team Guilliman:
Inquisitors (... BUT I DO LIKE CHANGE SOMETIMES. EXCEPT WHEN I DON'T.")
Macragge ("Spiritual Liege!")
Most Ultramarine Successor Chapters ("Spiritual LIEGE!")
Sisters of Battle ("SPIRITUAL Liege!")
Ultramarines (*unending orgasm sounds*)
Astra Militarum
Astra Militarum if their command has met with Guilliman ("What a reasonable fellow. Let's nuke the OTHER bastards from orbit.")

Team Dies Anyway:
Civilians

Team Facepalm:
Aeldari (particularly the Ynarri - "You bloody mon'keigh, we rezzed that asshat so you could UNITE AGAINST CHAOS, you tits.")

Team OY LET US IN ON DIS AKSHUN YA GROTS
Orks

Team Laughing At the Imperium Tearing Itself Apart:
Chaos
Tyranids
Necrons
Eldar (The ones not busy facepalming)

Team Mostly Irrelevant:
Tau

I mean, it's pretty obvious most people poll'ed here would vote Gulliman. We know from a meta perspective he's 'correct' because he wants to try and fix the bloated, ineffective, horrific mess that is the Imperium.

I'm going with the High Lords because I don't want more Space Marines taking centre stage.

 Arbitrator wrote:
I mean, it's pretty obvious most people poll'ed here would vote Gulliman. We know from a meta perspective he's 'correct' because he wants to try and fix the bloated, ineffective, horrific mess that is the Imperium...

And/or people are going to vote for the winning side. Gulliman has a model (two, actually). The Emperor doesn't. We know who's going to win.

 Nevelon wrote:
The xenos win. or chaos.

Everyone in the IoM looses.

Not necessarily. Half the IoM well-run is more than twice as good as the current Imperium. Get rid of the GK, inquisition, and all the other stupid gak the IoM and get back to real science.

The Emperor world agree with RG, what does a model have to do with anything?

So many heretics. We're going to need more promethium.

 Arbitrator wrote:
I mean, it's pretty obvious most people poll'ed here would vote Gulliman. We know from a meta perspective he's 'correct' because he wants to try and fix the bloated, ineffective, horrific mess that is the Imperium.

I'm going with the High Lords because I don't want more Space Marines taking centre stage.

You know the conflict (as written by GW) would boil down to RG Loyal Space Marines and the HLOT Loyal Space Marines and the Marines would yet again take center stage.

 Arbitrator wrote:
I mean, it's pretty obvious most people poll'ed here would vote Gulliman. We know from a meta perspective he's 'correct' because he wants to try and fix the bloated, ineffective, horrific mess that is the Imperium.

Not sure I can agree with that. One of my favorite long-winded quotes (source is 1d4chan, so I understand it isn't written in a style that is everyone's cup of tea) deals with how (a few minor details aside) the Imperium of Man is basically exactly what it needed to be to continue to exist as long as it has, and to continue to hold back the weight of a galaxy seemingly hellbent on its utter destruction. There's a related quote on the truly desperate situation the Ad Mech finds itself in given the reality and consequences of the 10000 year old civil war and the consequences thereof still being felt today.

Guilliman is here to save the Imperium, but despite being a demigod of supercharged warpstuff-in-a-fleshbag, he just isn't THAT magical and any attempts he makes to "save the village" may well require him to destroy it/sacrifice a great big chunk of it to the flame, vietnam-style.

The hope is that they're willing to explore that, rather than pretend that even the Patron Saint of Logistics can save the Imperium from its effectively inevitable destruction.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:
I mean, it's pretty obvious most people poll'ed here would vote Gulliman. We know from a meta perspective he's 'correct' because he wants to try and fix the bloated, ineffective, horrific mess that is the Imperium.

I'm going with the High Lords because I don't want more Space Marines taking centre stage.

You know the conflict (as written by GW) would boil down to RG Loyal Space Marines and the HLOT Loyal Space Marines and the Marines would yet again take center stage.

At least they weren't leading the Imperium

I stand by Papa Nurgle, of course. Can that be an option?

Rowboat will cause the entire thing would just be fluff created to spank off to his return a bit more.

 B Stores wrote:
I stand by Papa Nurgle, of course. Can that be an option?

Only if I can get Abbadon vs. Guiliman in re-creation of Horus vs. The Emperor fight on a battle barge with Robot defeating Failadon but not before he mortally wounds him. Thus returning 40K to the status quo and Chaos gets a new Warmaster. /s

Forget the power of faith and hatred, for Reboot has taught us how to mass produce power armor and plasma guns that never overheat. Forget the impending doom of the Tyranids and the Necrontyr, for in the noble bright future they have become our friends. There is only peace among the stars, an eternity of progress and enlightenment, and the laughter of Reboot’s League of Super Friends.

Yeah, it almost certainly won't be that bad, but I'm a little paranoid about this whole thing.

Sisters of Battle ("SPIRITUAL Liege!")

Feth you heretic! *BLAM!*

Guilliman is a high lord of terra.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Depends on who he can rally around him. Guilliman seriously pissed off the non-Codex legions like DA, BA, and Space Wolves, but if he can rally them against the High Lords, than the High Lords have no chance. If it's just Guilliman, a couple allies, and the Ultramarines against the rest of the Imperium, then things get pretty dicey for him.

The Codex deviants don't really have anything against Girlyman, they just didn't want to follow the Codex - the answer in most cases was "No." rather than "Get the feth off my planet or I'll fill you with bolter rounds!"

The High Lords of Terra on the other hand - I'm not sure about the other codex deviants but the Space Wolves have hated the High Lords of Terra since the before the Horus Heresy broke out.

I think what will happen might be painfully obvious. Guilliman will likely sacrifice his own life in some attempt to stop some event and save Terra or the throne, he will be forced into a position where he can do nothing else.

Why will this happen? Because he cannot live, in order for 40k to remain the IoM cannot have a singular unopposed voice that can rearrange with a methodical effectiveness the entire IoM into a well oiled machine. Him staying alive seems more end times than killing him at least to me anyway.

What if the Terminus Decree is directing the GK to aid Guilliman? What happens when Guilliman walks straight into the Imperial Palace and goes before the golden throne and comes back to the Lords of Terra backed by the custodes, the grey knights and a living saint?

The sisters of battle would probably ditch the Ecclesiarchy in a heartbeat to work directly under a saint and a living legend fresh from a chat directly with the emperor backed by custodes than follow some narrative that the he's a heretic and you quickly will come to a situation of Imperial Guard vs all other IoM factions. I don't think any Lord of Terra that wished to live would do anything other than acquiesce to the whims of Guilliman. The man wrote the playbook that majority of the Astartes go by and implying that he will make rash tactical decisions and he himself quickly branded a heretic or something along those lines is nonsense. If he is able to make moves unopposed he will steamroll the current leadership

Hence, he will need to die or kept so busy he cannot lead the IoM.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:

 B Stores wrote:
I stand by Papa Nurgle, of course. Can that be an option?

Only if I can get Abbadon vs. Guiliman in re-creation of Horus vs. The Emperor fight on a battle barge with Robot defeating Failadon but not before he mortally wounds him. Thus returning 40K to the status quo and Chaos gets a new Warmaster. /s

I have a feeling this is exactly what will happen. He can't live, he will be able to do much to the benefit of IoM if he lives.

"The Guilliman Heresy" just doesn't have that certain special ring to it, ya know?

"The Secession Wars" doesn't sound at all interesting either. GW will really have to work hard on this campaign to make it sound good!

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:

 B Stores wrote:
I stand by Papa Nurgle, of course. Can that be an option?

Only if I can get Abbadon vs. Guiliman in re-creation of Horus vs. The Emperor fight on a battle barge with Robot defeating Failadon but not before he mortally wounds him. Thus returning 40K to the status quo and Chaos gets a new Warmaster. /s

...Deal!

When it came to a head, I'd vote for Gulliman, but...

Gulliman would be a fool to move directly against the High Lords minutes after being brought out of statis.

At best, it would start another civil war within an already teetering Imperium that is facing the results of a civil war 10K years old.

More than likely, he'd simply become an enemy of the Imperium, hunted down and destroyed before he got the lay of the land.

That is what Russ would do, and that would be his fate.

Gulliman is a planner and a statesman. His first priority will be beating back the Chaos Incursion. He'd work within the bounds of the Imperium as much as possible. Then, once he's reestablished his power base at Macragge and helped to stabilize the crumbling imperium, he'd take the next step.

Once the entire Imperium is behind him, he can put the Lords of Terra and the inquisition in their place, forcing them to quietly step down and/or disband. He'd be a fool to rage openly and loudly against the imperium until he had his feet back under him and understood the lay of the modern land. While he isn't going to be idle, he's not going to be rash either and start another civil war or heresy.

of course the alternative answer is that Gulliman will be needed just to stem the tide. things are getting a LOT worse across the galaxy. cadia has fallen and warp storms are engulfing much of the galaxy. GS2 showed a galatic map with locations of major warp storms and it was.... impressive. Gulliman may be needed just to stem the tide

 Tamwulf wrote:
"The Guilliman Heresy" just doesn't have that certain special ring to it, ya know?

"The Secession Wars" doesn't sound at all interesting either. GW will really have to work hard on this campaign to make it sound good!

"The Scouring of Ultramar" maybe?

Because one Chapter (now possibly the Ultramarines instead of the Dark Angels) would go rogue according to rumours?

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

Team Laughing At the Imperium Tearing Itself Apart:
..
Eldar (The ones not busy facepalming)

Na not really at least if you believe the rumours. For Guilliman is rumoured to be an eldar puppet put there to make the IoM stop feeding choas like the idiotic neighbour they are.

 oldzoggy wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

Team Laughing At the Imperium Tearing Itself Apart:
..
Eldar (The ones not busy facepalming)

Na not really at least if you believe the rumours. For Guilliman is rumoured to be an eldar puppet put there to make the IoM stop feeding choas like the idiotic neighbour they are.

Look again at my list: Eldar are listed in Team Facepalm (particularly the Ynarri faction) for exactly the reasons you stated.

But not all Eldar are on the "let's awaken a mon'keigh demigod to stop chaos" train, and that includes more traditional Craftworld Eldar and, most notably, Vect's sect of DE (who would very much be laughing their asses off)

 oldzoggy wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

Team Laughing At the Imperium Tearing Itself Apart:
..
Eldar (The ones not busy facepalming)

Na not really at least if you believe the rumours. For Guilliman is rumoured to be an eldar puppet put there to make the IoM stop feeding choas like the idiotic neighbour they are.

That's rich almost to the point of hilarity.
IoM has made Daemon Princes but have they made a Chaos god?

IoM isn't the creative type they are more the crazy type of neighbour who keeps feeding the pigeons 20 breads a day and won't stop when the entire neighbourhood complained about the rats.
The thing that makes the IoM worse is that half of them actually started to join team rats.

F Gilliman. I called it years ago that a new civil war would erupt it Gilliman ever returned, as fully 50% of the standing Astartes in the current storyline are sons of Gilliman. If all of them heeded his call to protect Ultramar, it would disrupt the military operations of the Imperium leaving huge swaths of the galaxy undefended. So F Gilliman.

SJ

Well, Guilliman, to the best of my knowledge, very much remains a High Lord of Terra - he never rescinded his seat.

And I doubt the current High Lords would object to having a Primarch join them - if anyone is the Emperor's legitimate heir, it's his sole present, loyalist son.

Yet Guilliman is too much of a statesman to mindless rock the boat.

I'm very interested to read the background on this one.

dosiere wrote:
Guilliman is a high lord of terra.

Source ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I doubt the current High Lords would object to having a Primarch join them .

Sure they would, no sane high lord would want to see his power be diminished to worthless advisor. Let this so called Guilliman prove who he is to the administratum before he can even set foot on holy terra. He could be a daemon disguised as him for all we know.