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Lord Kragan wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

stewe128 wrote:
You know why they're sigmarizing 40k. Just in the past couple years AoS is 40% of GW's profit. It's relaxed, fun, and insanely easy to get into. It's also deceptively in-depth as well. 40k sigmarized will bring more of the dough a business wants IMO, and more people into the hobby as well.

I'd ask you for a source but it's rather obvious you're inventing 'facts'

Balloons. First it was 30, then 35, then 40. I expect AOS to be 90% of income by the end of the year.

I think NOW AoS may be around 30-35. But have doubts it was so much back then and if so it was mainly due to the lack of new releases. for 40k decreasing its incomes.

I sincerly doubt it is that high. At best, they probably are a bit above 20%, since iirc according to Hasting, WHFB was around 15% when it was 4th in the ICV2 rating (which is the rank of AOS). And ICV2 is also saying that the growth of GW recently is mostly due to 40k, so it is improbable that AOS made up so much ground.

In terms of movement in 2nd ed it varied within factions- I have my eldar codex here - Guardians, Dire avengers have movement 5", Banshees and harlequins are 6", heavily armoured Dark Reapers are 4". So this might be part of how unit specific data cards work.

 silent25 wrote:
Just going to add one bit of info: In an interview with Jervis Johnson (HeelanHammer last December), Jervis mentioned the hardest part in developing the AoS rules was the commandment from on high to fit the rules on four A4 sheets. That was likely a Kirby Co. dictate and might not be present in 40K. So we might get a bit more crunch in the 40K rules then was allowed in AoS originally.

Other big question is if the rules will be free or not? That is another point that was not mentioned in the seminar. 40k 8th may suffer if they force another $80 book on us. The easy accessibility of the rules and units helps AoS a lot.

It could be they wanted rules that were essentially part of an MVP for AoS, which is what you want when launching a completely new product anyway. The whole initial release certainly seems like an MVP looking back on it now.

stewe128 wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

stewe128 wrote:

 Galas wrote:

stewe128 wrote:
You know why they're sigmarizing 40k. Just in the past couple years AoS is 40% of GW's profit. It's relaxed, fun, and insanely easy to get into. It's also deceptively in-depth as well. 40k sigmarized will bring more of the dough a business wants IMO, and more people into the hobby as well.

I'm a big AoS fan but. Where its everybody getting those ultra precise revenues and economicals reports of GW?

Last I saw, they never put clearly how many money X game give them.

I remember Hasting (If I'm not remembering wrong) saying that in the beginning AoS was a fail but after the General Handbook droped, the sales have growing exponentially and now its surpases Warhammer Fantasy many times.

I don't think AoS its outselling Fantasy in his golden years but I don't know.

I say that, because a buddy of mine is a manager at a local GW store.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azreal13 wrote:

stewe128 wrote:
You know why they're sigmarizing 40k. Just in the past couple years AoS is 40% of GW's profit. It's relaxed, fun, and insanely easy to get into. It's also deceptively in-depth as well. 40k sigmarized will bring more of the dough a business wants IMO, and more people into the hobby as well.

I'm pretty sure that "40%" thing has been discredited?

Either way, one doesn't express sales in term of profit, it would be 40% of revenue, but considering the number of kits, probably also represents a significant expenditure too.

Yeah you right. Revenue mb

ho, so your frien that is a local manager at a GW store has access to the sales charts of GW as a whole !!!!????

Kids nowadays, so naive

Lol stay mad, but honestly it doesn't matter I just wanna have some fun with the new edition. I notice you're sweating a bit wipe some of that off the brow

I'm not mad. I just find it pathetic when someone invent facts on the internet to get some attention

Wasn't Alarielle the fastest sell single-model unit GW has ever sell? (I'm sure I have wrote that wrong, sorry)

I read that in the internet but actually I never see the original source.
Don't saying that to point like "AoS its selling like hot baguettes in Paris!" but I think it is doing better than more people will like to admit.

And if its selling bad, NP for me, for now they are launching extra content

Instead of going back to 2Ed for insight into movement values, I think it would be more fruitful to look at what comparable units move in Age of Sigmar. What is the move of Flying Monsters / Daemon Princes, etc? Infantry? Sigmarines? Fast units like cav or Elves?

 Galas wrote:
Wasn't Alarielle the fastest sell single-model unit GW has ever sell? (I'm sure I have wrote that wrong, sorry)

I read that in the internet but actually I never see the original source.
Don't saying that to point like "AoS its selling like hot baguettes in Paris!" but I think it is doing better than more people will like to admit.

And if its selling bad, NP for me, for now they are launching extra content

Never heard about that. It would be really surprising though

 rollawaythestone wrote:
Instead of going back to 2Ed for insight into movement values, I think it would be more fruitful to look at what comparable units move in Age of Sigmar. What is the move of Flying Monsters / Daemon Princes, etc? Infantry? Sigmarines? Fast units like cav or Elves?

Varies.

Most "human" models move around 4'' to 6'' with destruction models moving d6'' additionally if close to heroes.

Cavalry usually have normally 8'' to 12'' inches of movement, with some outliers reaching the 14-16,

Flying models usually have around 10-14 inches of movement.

I've heard AoS is about 30-35% of GW sales. I know that in my neck of the woods it's completely taken over.

Also, in answer to your question rollawaythestone, 5" seems to be the 'standard' move rate for AoS, with a lot of infantry having that. But elves and unarmored humans like Bloodreavers move 6". Cavalry is around 10" give or take.

Age of Sigmar!

Making 40k Great Again!

 rollawaythestone wrote:
Instead of going back to 2Ed for insight into movement values, I think it would be more fruitful to look at what comparable units move in Age of Sigmar. What is the move of Flying Monsters / Daemon Princes, etc? Infantry? Sigmarines? Fast units like cav or Elves?

From Grand Alliance Order; the Movement varies.
12" tends towards "fast cavalry". 10" for "heavy cavalry". 12" for "character heavy cavalry". 14" for Ripperdactyls.
Freeguild General on Griffon is * for Move; the more Wounds it takes the slower it moves. Starts at 15" and ends at 7".
Infantry--tends towards 5" across the Humans, 8" is an outlier on Kroxigors, 6" on Elves, 7" for Dryads, 6 and 5 for the Treeman variants.

Most Monsters tend towards "*" for Move.

stewe128 wrote:You know why they're sigmarizing 40k. Just in the past couple years AoS is 40% of GW's profit. It's relaxed, fun, and insanely easy to get into. It's also deceptively in-depth as well. 40k sigmarized will bring more of the dough a business wants IMO, and more people into the hobby as well.

While I doubt the 40%, they did just say General's Handbook has been one of their most popular rulebooks ever. So I believe it's been a big success.

As well, pretty much everything they mention in the presentation and the article on thier community site sounds very familiar to anyone playing Age of Sigmar.

Bonuses for playing thematic armies are like battalion bonuses. Save modifiers are like rend. AoS has individual movement values.

And this whole thing of bespoke rules? Age of Sigmar already has that with their line by line weapon entries and the special rules right in each stat block.

Welcome to the Age of the Emperor my friends.

I thought the Harlequin Solitair was the fastest & could unload a ton of attacks in the right circumstances.

 Galas wrote:
Wasn't Alarielle the fastest sell single-model unit GW has ever sell? (I'm sure I have wrote that wrong, sorry)

I read that in the internet but actually I never see the original source.
Don't saying that to point like "AoS its selling like hot baguettes in Paris!" but I think it is doing better than more people will like to admit.

And if its selling bad, NP for me, for now they are launching extra content

I think it was on facebook, there was a post about how she and the sylvaneth were blasted off of the shelves and they had to make more. Also she was out of stock for like several weeks straight along with some of the units in multiple territories, also the new DOT book went into softback in like the first to second week of pre order. Considering they have just recently said the general handbook is one of their most highest selling supplements I think AOS is doing well.

No one has the numbers, but if it was truly doing poorly they would not incorporate some of the rules into 40k or note that the general handbook is one of their highest selling books during their seminar.

edit: Also with the warscroll builder coming out soon for free there is literally no barrier of entry into the hobby now via AOS.

Why is everyone so angry about unreleased rules? It's up to gw what they do and if change no good use previous edition..
They will do what they want to do. Money and sales talk that is what they care about.
If it heavily reduces income it will soon change.

While I have no idea the sales percentage that AOS makes up, anecdotally around here it seems to be doing pretty well. 40k seems to sell more models talking to my LGS, but I never see anyone playing it when I'm in the three game stores in my town. Heck, when you look at their schedules two of them have one 40k night a month and the other does not host it at all. AOS on the other hand has weekly play groups at two of three and the other store (which primarily does MTG) has people playing it there somewhat regularly.
In general though, I mostly see people around here playing X-Wing, Infinity, Blood Bowl and occasionally older specialist games (Necromunda/Mordheim) or Warmahordes.

I think a lot of the move to change the rules with some AOS is because the currently 40k rules are a bloated, horrid mess. All of my friends who do miniature gaming own 40k models, and occasionally buy 40k models to build and paint. But none of them (myself included) play 40k because it's a real bore to get through a game and a convoluted mess. I don't play AOS, but I have the General's handbook, and I think the rules make for a game that is very playable.

I imagine a lot of people that buy 40k models are buying an occasional box to build/kitbash/paint or use for another game. I think GW would like to get those people playing their flagship game and buying more models, and this move towards cleaning up the rules is likely an attempt to do so.

With the new attitude GW has taken towards their customer base I imagine the new rules will please at least a good portion of their clientele.

Marxist artist wrote:
Why is everyone so angry about unreleased rules? .

They're not.

 Sabotage! wrote:

With the new attitude GW has taken towards their customer base I imagine the new rules will please at least a good portion of their clientele.

That's certainly the hope. What concerns me is that while corporate policy might have changed, rules-wise these are the same guys who thought in 6th edition that Psykers needed a boost because the studio guys were all using Captains and Chaplains instead of Librarians. While out in the real world, the Librarian was widely regarded as the best choice and already slightly overpowered.

So yes, it's likely that the new rules will be intended to please at least a good portion of their clientele. It's whether or not GW actually has any idea of how to do that, that remains in doubt.

 insaniak wrote:

That's certainly the hope. What concerns me is that while corporate policy might have changed, rules-wise these are the same guys who thought in 6th edition that Psykers needed a boost because the studio guys were all using Captains and Chaplains instead of Librarians. While out in the real world, the Librarian was widely regarded as the best choice and already slightly overpowered.

So yes, it's likely that the new rules will be intended to please at least a good portion of their clientele. It's whether or not GW actually has any idea of how to do that, that remains in doubt.

That's a very fair point, I'm hoping taking feedback into account from the community and seemingly being more open about accepting said feedback (particularly from TOs and people that play a lot) they can curtail some of their odd "GWisms" for lack of a better term. Hopefully if they do blunder something too badly they will actually FAQ it (the previous FAQ in my opinion is a good sign for the company).

 insaniak wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:

Why have 2 effectively identical games just 1 fantasy and 1 sci-fi'ish..

It worked in the '90s...

Up until 3rd edition 40K/6th edition Fantasy, they were functionally the same game with just some minor differences to account for things like Fantasy revolving around ranked units. You could fight 40K armies up against Fantasy armies with very minor tweaking of the base rules. Even the Magic/Psychic systems were the same, just with different names on the 'power' cards.

The difference between ranked units and loose units made the games play completely different though, where as if you port AoS rules over to 40k the two games are going to end up playing very similar to each other.

I always felt that was the advantage of having 40k and WHFB, they appealed to rather different segments of the wargaming community. Where as AoS vs 40k I think have larger overlap in their appeal.

With rules changes as huge as suggested they will surely have to do as they did with AOS and warscroll everything out there, simply to avoid a decade before everyone gets a new codex with relevant stat lines. They can then move on and do whatever they like as everything is technically supported. Minifactions can come and go. They can regularly hop onto the nostalgia train (a la Mechanicus, GS Cult), or make Ubermarines, whatever takes their fancy that particular day. Badly-worded unit cards can be rewritten and reissued instead of FAQ'd. Should be pretty liberating for the Studio, creatively.

Movement wise:

Slow units in AoS are like:
4"
Zombies, Skeletons. Heavily Armored Paladins (Decimators, Retributors-These are sortof Terminators)

Average Infantry
5"
Liberators, Pink Horrors

Fast Infantry
6"-7"
Dryads, Daemonettes of Slaanesh (Run & Charge too)

Cavalry
10"-12"
Dracoth Guard (Fulminators) Black Knights

Flying Units
~12" Monsters scale movement down.
Mourngul, Prosecutors, Daemon Prince w/Wings

Jetbike Speed
14"-16"
Seekers of Slaanesh, Tzangor Enlightened on Disc

So when is Adepticon Day 2 starting? Any more info to be had?

 Sabotage! wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

That's certainly the hope. What concerns me is that while corporate policy might have changed, rules-wise these are the same guys who thought in 6th edition that Psykers needed a boost because the studio guys were all using Captains and Chaplains instead of Librarians. While out in the real world, the Librarian was widely regarded as the best choice and already slightly overpowered.

So yes, it's likely that the new rules will be intended to please at least a good portion of their clientele. It's whether or not GW actually has any idea of how to do that, that remains in doubt.

That's a very fair point, I'm hoping taking feedback into account from the community and seemingly being more open about accepting said feedback (particularly from TOs and people that play a lot) they can curtail some of their odd "GWisms" for lack of a better term. Hopefully if they do blunder something too badly they will actually FAQ it (the previous FAQ in my opinion is a good sign for the company).

The most encouraging part of this news is that they are not just taking feedback but actively working with specific members of the community on the new rules.
I am very curious about when the new rules will drop. The post on the community website makes it sound like it is not soon.
Things like 'we are thinking of doing this' and 'you will be able to play this at next year's Adepticon.' It is starting to sound like an autumn or winter release.

Just on an quick note before I head off, I was watching that 'Inside the studio' video again...

https://www.facebook.com/WarhammerTVteam/videos/351209028607415/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

When they are mentioning the 'new movement bases', behind the white coat fellow there's a box full of sprues. What are those sprues!? They look like a vehicle of some sort.

Yeah I can't find any times either. I'm est in Canada. Also I did google it earlier and it said 23rd, but the thread here said only 22nd. So I wanted to double check with people to make sure it was a multiday thing.

 RyanAvx wrote:
Just on an quick note before I head off, I was watching that 'Inside the studio' video again...

https://www.facebook.com/WarhammerTVteam/videos/351209028607415/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

When they are mentioning the 'new movement bases', behind the white coat fellow there's a box full of sprues. What are those sprues!? They look like a vehicle of some sort.

If you're looking for any serious clues in that video...well... ;-)

And it was clearly the Plastic Thunderhawk.

Lets identify the sprues!!!

 SickSix wrote:
Lets identify the sprues!!!

Kharadron Overlord ship parts!

 SickSix wrote:
Lets identify the sprues!!!

They look alot like the Imperial Sector buildings sprues TBH. What with all the flat panels. Not 100% mind you, but in the same style.

As someone who has been hanging on to his Tyranids in the hope GW did something to fix 40k, and seeing nearly 20 pages of bickering and not wanting to dig through it and reading 'sigmarising of 40k', can someone explain what GW announced?