Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Kain wrote:

How are warriors soaking up much of anything with their 4+ armor saves and amazing vulnerability to instant death? How are harpies being all that threatening when they're the least imposing FMC in the game? How is it that Gaunts are durable in a meta where people are flinging around as much infantry erasing dakka as they are now? And how are Trygons still scary in this day and age when T6 W6 and 3+ saves for a gargantuan creature sized model (that doesn't get any gargantuan creature benefits) is peanuts for most of the top tier armies to annihilate the second it bursts out of its tunnel? I mean, we're talking about an expensive, hard to conceal unit that is seriously threatened by a simple ten man squad of dire avengers (nevermind Eldar wraiths nuking it off the board with the almighty D) and does not have the range to avoid their shooting.

He plays SM with 3 fully kitted tacs (10 man missile launcher plasma pistol and power weapon), 2 tactical term squads, a dread and LRC.
Not exactly erasing much at 1750 points.

Sonic Keyboard wrote:

 Kain wrote:

How are warriors soaking up much of anything with their 4+ armor saves and amazing vulnerability to instant death? How are harpies being all that threatening when they're the least imposing FMC in the game? How is it that Gaunts are durable in a meta where people are flinging around as much infantry erasing dakka as they are now? And how are Trygons still scary in this day and age when T6 W6 and 3+ saves for a gargantuan creature sized model (that doesn't get any gargantuan creature benefits) is peanuts for most of the top tier armies to annihilate the second it bursts out of its tunnel? I mean, we're talking about an expensive, hard to conceal unit that is seriously threatened by a simple ten man squad of dire avengers (nevermind Eldar wraiths nuking it off the board with the almighty D) and does not have the range to avoid their shooting.

He plays SM with 3 fully kitted tacs (10 man missile launcher plasma pistol and power weapon), 2 tactical term squads, a dread and LRC.
Not exactly erasing much at 1750 points.

Well I mean if you're going to play an army mostly made out of what you can get straight out of a box you're probably going to just struggle in general. But the idea of warriors being hard to wipe out is just bizarre to me when Warriors have been able to do almost nothing besides take the nearest S8+ pieplate or bucket load of S8 attacks to the face and immediately wasting all those points you sank into a unit that's almost as expensive as TEQs but oh so much easier to wipe out. Whether it was Leman Russ tanks, Psyfledreads, DEldar lances, and Long Fang missile spam in 5th edition, overcharged Ion cannons and Iontides in general, Forgefiends, Lance spam and the like in 6th edition, or 7e's proliferation of the almighty D my warriors have almost never not been turned inside out within moments of being targeted since they lost EW and the option to upgrade their armor saves and toughness from the 4e book. Warriors have terrible resiliency per point the second S8 is brought to play. And the remedy of catalyst doesn't do a thing to alleviate that horrid squishiness. Meanwhile, Wraithgards/blade; being the other weird TEQ equivalent, can get Protect to protect against something as simple as krak missiles or battle cannons, and one variety of wraithguard can get a decent invulnerable save.

The best you can really do is Venomthropes and Catalyst, but that's a lot of points into trying to beef up a unit that has pretty mediocre damage output for what you're paying. And a frustrating number of armies just do not care about the shrouding that Venomthropes can give warriors.

Drop pods. Especially when I'm bringing my Orkz. Sure its nice to bring your army closer to me, but.... i would like to leave my deployment zone too.

I'm going to say drop pods too. Basically any sort of alpha strike crap.

Valkyries and Vendettas used to drive me insane! The sheer amount of firepower was always too much for me to handle, and the save bonus from flying always made them hard to hit.

glados wrote:
I'm going to say drop pods too. Basically any sort of alpha strike crap.

You can often make that backfire for your opponent though.

Wraith knights and thunderwolves.

Anything that is very difficult to deal with will be unpopular.
Anything that is impossible to deal with makes for a gakky game.

The worst game I ever had was against a Space Wolves with GK allies. Enough psychic to deny my important powers. Which meant that I couldn't stop one unit of thunderwolves from killing 2000pts of daemons while the other (identical) unit of thunderwolves watched from an objective.

I have dealt with D flamer wraithguard, who can be quite ineffective if you can get them to footslog before they cross the table. I've dealt with up to 2 riptides at once, though partly I got extremely lucky with a Riptide v Bullgryn CC, for which I'm extremely proud of my big fellas, and I admit it wasn't Triptide Wing. I've faced rerollable jink Ravenwing, if you have ample Ignores Cover it's not a problem unless your opponent is getting really lucky with his MEQ armor saves...

Units I haven't had the... pleasure, of playing against include Warp Spiders, Scatbikes, Wraithknights, Stormsurges, and IKs. The scatbikes and WK I'm not looking forward to playing against. I think I might be able to handle a single Stormsurge, but two of them and Triptide I can imagine being annoying as hell.

S10 pie plates. These things can wipe entire squads which is especially annoying in 30k when playing mechanicum. No matter what my game plan is, it changes when s10 blasts are on the board - they must die. Fast. If I get second turn, it really screws with how I like to deploy.

 ColdSadHungry wrote:
S10 pie plates. These things can wipe entire squads which is especially annoying in 30k when playing mechanicum. No matter what my game plan is, it changes when s10 blasts are on the board - they must die. Fast. If I get second turn, it really screws with how I like to deploy.

...Wait, why are you bothered by S10 blasts? Your main DT is almost completely immune to them from the front (AV14 and a Flare Shield to resolve blasts at -2S). And it takes rather a lot of S10 blasts to batter past Castellax' 4 Wounds and Invulnerable save.

...How do you get enough S10 blasts to scare a Taghmata player?

At this point, Guilliman

Half of this screams "I don't care if it's fluffy! It's sort of hard to deal with so Space Marines should only footslog!"

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
Half of this screams "I don't care if it's fluffy! It's sort of hard to deal with so Space Marines should only footslog!"

I presume this means gladius?
Free transports are not fluffly or fun. Why aren't they fluffy? Because these still have to build, maintain and supply the transports.
Transports you actually pay for are much less OP.

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
Half of this screams "I don't care if it's fluffy! It's sort of hard to deal with so Space Marines should only footslog!"

They're not wrong, though...

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
Half of this screams "I don't care if it's fluffy! It's sort of hard to deal with so Space Marines should only footslog!"

they don't have to walk, but pay for you transports.... playing my 1850 orks against 2100+ points that was discounted to 1850 with free transports is not appealing.

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
Half of this screams "I don't care if it's fluffy! It's sort of hard to deal with so Space Marines should only footslog!"

they don't have to walk, but pay for you transports.... playing my 1850 orks against 2100+ points that was discounted to 1850 with free transports is not appealing.

Or give us free transports. You can have free Razorbacks if I can have free Wave Serpents.

(Disclaimer: This answer is a parody and is not intended to be read as an attempt to advocate for anyone to get big chunks of free units in any game of 40k, because that would be dumb.)

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
Half of this screams "I don't care if it's fluffy! It's sort of hard to deal with so Space Marines should only footslog!"

they don't have to walk, but pay for you transports.... playing my 1850 orks against 2100+ points that was discounted to 1850 with free transports is not appealing.

Or give us free transports. You can have free Razorbacks if I can have free Wave Serpents.

(Disclaimer: This answer is a parody and is not intended to be read as an attempt to advocate for anyone to get big chunks of free units in any game of 40k, because that would be dumb.)

Did somebody say free Chimeras?!?!

 KommissarKiln wrote:

Did somebody say free Chimeras?!?!

Can you imagine the fit Battle company Space marine players would pitch if GW did that?
That is EASILY doubling the points of an Imperial Guard army....

I for one would be taking min squads of DA for my elder for free waveserpants and min nobz squads for the battlewagons or trukks. the age of freetransporthammer40k has arrived.

 KommissarKiln wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
Half of this screams "I don't care if it's fluffy! It's sort of hard to deal with so Space Marines should only footslog!"

they don't have to walk, but pay for you transports.... playing my 1850 orks against 2100+ points that was discounted to 1850 with free transports is not appealing.

Or give us free transports. You can have free Razorbacks if I can have free Wave Serpents.

(Disclaimer: This answer is a parody and is not intended to be read as an attempt to advocate for anyone to get big chunks of free units in any game of 40k, because that would be dumb.)

Did somebody say free Chimeras?!?!

I heard "BUY ONE, GET ONE" specials on Wraithknights.

Elysians getting free Valkyries anyone?

I thought it was more of a complaint about the concept of drop pods, not the freeness.

The free vehicle thing is basically GW admitting that stock marines need a handicap to play the game straight up against Xeno power lists.

IoM deathstar lists are a gimmick for sure, and not what I would consider playing straight up.

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
Half of this screams "I don't care if it's fluffy! It's sort of hard to deal with so Space Marines should only footslog!"

But... i don't care if it's fluffy.

I mean, would you play against 5 IKs and have a good time? No? But they're a separate faction, that's how they *should* be played! What's that you say? Game mechanics are an entirely separate thing from game background?

Space Marine drop pods change the game from a tactical wargame to an incredibly involved deployment phase, then an action packed single turn wherein the game is completely 100% decided 100% of the time. Much like fighting against an army of knights, say, or a single superheavy, or a big beefed up psychic deathstar, it's an interesting tactical challenge..one time.

That's the problem with low-interactive lists, or lists that drastically change the setup of the game. They can be as fluffy as you want. 2000 points of ork boyz in a green tide is fluffy. Would you want to play that more than a couple times?

Depends on how many pods. I typically use 1-3 pods. My games do not go the way you describe at all.

If those FREE Transports were Pods or Rhinos for full 10-man squads (only), nobody would be complaining.

Plague marines. I know that there is worse out there but I hates them.

Grav: too good against everything

Invisibility: just no, this spell should be invisible itself

Anything that up your points for free. Wehn I agree to play a 1500 point game I want a 1500 point game not 1500vs1800 from both a time and a fairness point of view:

on a more personal note: wulfen, they are so good in CC and just irritate me when I compare them to what the TS got in wrath of magnus. ( I want to play CSM not demons and their power armoured overlords).