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One of the worst effects of GW getting stuff right more often is the resurgence of true believers who lack the critical thinking to distinguish between bashing and well founded criticisms.

Chikout wrote:
I am not sure this is thread worthy, but I noticed this in white dwarf. New guard stuff incoming?
For context there was a similar hint about the Kharadron last month.

A little late to the party , but i was thinking about this earlier today. The Guard pretty much have all their tank options available if I remember correctly. Also i heard Cadia was destroyed in the last campaign books. This would be a really good opportunity to release a new plastic guard box in the proportions of the new GSC models. Steel Legion would be a good choice as they just put out SWA, and people have been asking for Trench coat guard for as long as I remember. Plus GW could put out a head sprue for Valhallan conversions.

Petty bickering and e-peen contests aside, I just came here to bitch and moan that I too am not going to be getting this. I suspect that just like Space Hulk, this will end up being re-released a few times though.

Well I know I made the effort to hit up my FLGS and managed to reserve myself a copy.

While I know a couple of my mates would of liked to get it as well.. we only really need 1 rulebook between the lot of us, and as we know the terrain is coming out separately it isn't a great loss

Neronoxx wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
The game is basically necro with a few tweaks. If you played necro and read the informations that have been released, there is no need to play this game to have an opinion on the ruleset

Just last week I was listening to several members of the board state that Necromunda was indeed the best thing GW had ever done.
Some of those same members are the ones stating that Shadow Wars is bad.
It's mind boggling, but I guess part of the hobby is just blindly hating anything GW makes.
In fact, I bet that new citadel War-ter causes cancer...

Some people that like Necro are criticizing SWA for some of the ridiculous streamlining and needless restrctions, but these 2 things are not mutually exclusive


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sabotage! wrote:

Chikout wrote:
I am not sure this is thread worthy, but I noticed this in white dwarf. New guard stuff incoming?
For context there was a similar hint about the Kharadron last month.

A little late to the party , but i was thinking about this earlier today. The Guard pretty much have all their tank options available if I remember correctly. Also i heard Cadia was destroyed in the last campaign books. This would be a really good opportunity to release a new plastic guard box in the proportions of the new GSC models. Steel Legion would be a good choice as they just put out SWA, and people have been asking for Trench coat guard for as long as I remember. Plus GW could put out a head sprue for Valhallan conversions.

Aren't rules for Steel legion in SWA?
Arent only models that have plastic minis in SWA (bar the steel legions)?

You might be into something


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azreal13 wrote:
One of the worst effects of GW getting stuff right more often is the resurgence of true believers who lack the critical thinking to distinguish between bashing and well founded criticisms.

Amen. This is really annoying. But then, I rebember that a lot of posters here are in fact kids

 Player not found wrote:
I find the extra rules on some of these teams questionable...

Grey Knight are limited to 3-5 per team and cannot ever recruit anyone else. That'd be fine, if it actually WAS possible to get to 5 man.

Justicar costs at least 275pts (the Warding Stave being the cheapest H2H weapon available)
A Grey Knight costs at least 200pts (same here)
Minimum for 5 woudl therefore be 1075.

Unless the specalists are to be included in that 5-man max? Besides, are they free? With no access to the rules, it's hard to figure that all out... /sigh

Apparently their are other ways to earn points, to get over the 200pt limit, so Grey Knights and Tyranids can in fact recruit more members, it's just extra hard.
Two ways known so far, rolling hidden cache for an extra 100pts and one of the Guerilla skills (scavenger) gives you a 50pt bonus per mission if the fighter hasn't gone out of action.

IG kill team rules:
http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1491159617131.jpg
http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1491159242921.jpg

Camo gear reduces an attacker's long range by 4".

FOR IG

 streetsamurai wrote:
You might be into something

Hmm... it'd really only require 3 boxes (Infantry, Command, Heavy Weapon). Not a huge release and very easy to do.

 streetsamurai wrote:
Amen. This is really annoying. But then, I rebember that a lot of posters here are in fact kids

They need to get off our lawns!

For Orks

Thank you! If you can get some sharper images of the Ork list you'll be my personal hero. I can't make out points etc.

How do the Speical Ops work? Are they just special characters that you obtain as you move through the campaign... similar to the Special Characters in Necromunda?

Sorry... not familiar with either game. Just curious how important it is to grab them before playing.

 eekamouse wrote:
How do the Speical Ops work? Are they just special characters that you obtain as you move through the campaign... similar to the Special Characters in Necromunda?

Sorry... not familiar with either game. Just curious how important it is to grab them before playing.

You earn tokens through out the campaign that can be traded to use a Specialist for a game

GodDamUser wrote:

 eekamouse wrote:
How do the Speical Ops work? Are they just special characters that you obtain as you move through the campaign... similar to the Special Characters in Necromunda?

Sorry... not familiar with either game. Just curious how important it is to grab them before playing.

You earn tokens through out the campaign that can be traded to use a Specialist for a game

Thank you. So just for one game? Interesting...I expect a lot of "counts as" here.

someone sent them to me, so I can't give you better pics

 eekamouse wrote:

Thank you. So just for one game? Interesting...I expect a lot of "counts as" here.

Well with the previous skirmish games, it was a case you were 'encouraged' to convert your models as you progressed. (but they were all pretty much metal)
There is also a lot less option in this game compared to old, and with plastic minis being readily available, I do hope people will do some nice conversion for their team as the campaign progresses

Guard reference in WD is Death Guard.

GodDamUser wrote:

 eekamouse wrote:

Thank you. So just for one game? Interesting...I expect a lot of "counts as" here.

Well with the previous skirmish games, it was a case you were 'encouraged' to convert your models as you progressed. (but they were all pretty much metal)
There is also a lot less option in this game compared to old, and with plastic minis being readily available, I do hope people will do some nice conversion for their team as the campaign progresses

OK. That makes sense. Most boxes of the basic units come with 10 models, so shouldn't be too much to leave 2-3 aside to convert as needed.

Is the hotshot power pack still +1 to S or has it been overhauled to be more in line with the tabletop version?

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
Guard reference in WD is Death Guard.

What does a leman russ tank have to do with deathguard?

streetsamurai wrote:
Aren't rules for Steel legion in SWA?
Arent only models that have plastic minis in SWA (bar the steel legions)?

You might be into something

I have heard (but have not seen) that the three types of IG that have skill tables in SWA are Cadians, Catachans, and Steel Legionnaires. If this is the case then I do believe they are the only models in the game (SWA) that do not have plastic models. That combined with that hint from the WD that Chikout posted (and I ineptly did not put in my quote by them) being about tanks rather than preparing Infantry, I think it could make sense. Also, the current Guard plastics (minus the command squads) have aged very poorly and are some of the oldest core troops in the game at this point.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
You might be into something

Hmm... it'd really only require 3 boxes (Infantry, Command, Heavy Weapon). Not a huge release and very easy to do.

I think all things point to it being a very reasonable release, they could even just through the Command bits in with the Infantry box if they decided to be lazy (you don't really need more than a standard, a vox, a medikit, a few different heads, and couple different weapon arms). I would be rather happy to get some Guard infantry that are proportioned like the very nice new GSC hybrids. My old guard army when I played 40k was Steel Legion too, as they are probably my favorite regiment GW has put together (barring maybe Elysians......and Vostroyans are pretty cool too actually...).

A Steel legion plastic kit or two would be very cool. If the can be made compatible with the skitarii and gsc neophytes it opens up lots of possibilities for unique looking guard armies.

insaniak wrote:

Chikout wrote:

In the end it is much better for a company to make 10,000 copies of a product and sell out than to make 100,000 copies and only sell 50,000.

Not necessarily. The tipping point is going to vary significantly depending on a whole host of factors like production costs, storage costs, overheads... and what you do with those leftover 50000 copies. If your production costs are negligible (less than 2% of the overall cost, according to some of GW's previous financial reports) then it's very easy to imagine a scenario where it would be more profitable to produce the 100,000 copies and just bin whatever doesn't sell.

This whole thing is why market research is important... the constant failure to meet market demand shows someone is failing at their job and should have investors up in arms. If they are planning a release around only 10,000 copies and then realize the demand is higher they should be bending over backwards to make more as the original release of 10,000 will have already absorbed the R&D costs and the great majory of overhead costs... so each kit beyond that initial 10,000 is as profitable as the sale of 2 from that initial 10,000.

JustaerinAtTheWall wrote:Do you guys possibly think there will be a separate release option with just the rules? Potentially a downloadable PDF?

I spoke in person with a GW-USA sales manager yesterday. He said the rules will be available online and that they'll probably be free.

I would imagine for the corporate side of the business, presenting this game at one of the biggest trade shows for the industry in the world, to pull in new retailers and then offering them 10 each to sell would more likely be the bit where people lose jobs.

Because its as unprofessional and ill planned as you can get.

You don't use a limited run game as an entry for stockists. Especially when you fail to mention it is limited run at any point before they order it.

New IG kits would be super unexpected and highly welcome.

In WD they're teasing new minis done by Maxime Corbeil in the 4 Generals article (and if they're as well done as his conversions and paintjobs, oh my, look at his freaking Skaven army) and one of his opponents does Guard. Looong shot, but when we're speculating on WD blurbs, why not.

NoggintheNog wrote:I would imagine for the corporate side of the business, presenting this game at one of the biggest trade shows for the industry in the world, to pull in new retailers and then offering them 10 each to sell would more likely be the bit where people lose jobs.

I can tell you from experience that managers are waaaaaaay more likely to be sacked for overproducing and tying up resources on dead stock than for underestimating demand and temporarily running out. Any sales manager's worst fear is being stuck with 6 figures worth of Dreadfleet boxes that will never shift, even at a loss. When products beat the forecast and demand is still strong, that's when they open the champagne and cash the bonus cheques.

Keep in mind this release will also have been competing for distribution resources against a range of other new products (Gathering Storm, AoS, 8E, Blood Bowl etc), against restocking existing items, and all the key sourcing decisions involved would almost certainly have been made last year; well before SWA was public knowledge and demand could be properly gauged. GW isn't some pharmaceutical company where customers die if insulin is delivered a week late. Instead, the worst case scenario is some entitled nerd whining into the Internet at needing to wait a few extra days for their toys.

Although when you sit and think about it, no one is really missing out on much:

New terrain - already announced as being available the following week

Scouts and Ork models have been available forever - you can literally go buy them right now

The various dice, templates and cards are all things that either aren't essential or can be available elsewhere in some form

The only thing missing are the new rules, which I have no doubt we will see news on soon. So let's all chill the fluff out and paint some spacemans instead of angryposting about getting total strangers fired.

aka_mythos wrote: the constant failure to meet market demand shows someone is failing at their job and should have investors up in arms.

Citation needed, as I'm struggling to remember which releases GW "constantly" struggled to meet demand for.

I am not sure why people discussing the failures of GW are always deemed angry or salty, one does not need to be ranting or raving to see certain flaws, even the best companies make mistakes, I guess some folk just dont like this to be pointed out.


I agree with a lot of that, your worst case scenario is way off base though.
At the far end of the scale, some people will flatly refuse to buy anything from GW ever again, especially as this is not the first time this sort of thing has happened, if you read this forum regularly, you would have seen that this does happen, as does people moving on and refusing to buy the game at a later date.
GW makes most money from splash releases, next week lots of customers will be after something else and will not be interested in buying shadow war ever again, this is also worse than your " worst case Scenario ".
Personally, I would buy or download the rules if they are released, but I am not going to be interested in buying a box with old scouts or orcs in anymore as I have already spent the money allotted for shadow war on something else, I could be tempted to buy some of the awesome looking terrain again at some point in the future, in small amounts, if it does not sell out in ten minutes that is...

 xttz wrote:

Citation needed, as I'm struggling to remember which releases GW "constantly" struggled to meet demand for.

This has happened quite a bit, to date I have not been able to buy any of the blood bowl pitches or any of the dice and even some of the scenery pieces sold out in the twenty minutes it takes for me to get home on saturday morning. I am not particularly bothered about it, but they are missing out on a fair bit of cash, I assume that I am not the only customer trying to get this stuff.

No one will be sacked for this. Seriously, people, there's some undue rage levels going on right now. The calls for sackings are more disgusting and out of proportion than a plastic Catachan. Eat a Snickers/get back in Synapse range/do whatever it is calms you down.

 Rayvon wrote:
I am not sure why people discussing the failures of GW are always deemed angry or salty, one does not need to be ranting or raving to see certain flaws, even the best companies make mistakes, I guess some folk just dont like this to be pointed out.

Because it's easier to say "You're just salty!" or "You're a hater!" than it is to try to argue a coherent point.

 xttz wrote:

NoggintheNog wrote:I would imagine for the corporate side of the business, presenting this game at one of the biggest trade shows for the industry in the world, to pull in new retailers and then offering them 10 each to sell would more likely be the bit where people lose jobs.

Although when you sit and think about it, no one is really missing out on much:

New terrain - already announced as being available the following week

Scouts and Ork models have been available forever - you can literally go buy them right now

The various dice, templates and cards are all things that either aren't essential or can be available elsewhere in some form

The only thing missing are the new rules, which I have no doubt we will see news on soon. So let's all chill the fluff out and paint some spacemans instead of angryposting about getting total strangers fired.

.

New terrain- available in separate kits, that when brought total more than the base game. Its one thing to add to a set of terrain, another thing to have to buy it all from scratch at a higher cost.

Old models- maybe, but more orks is always welcome to ork players. I have never painted a space marine, I would have painted the scouts, and more than likely brought more models to go with them if they were fun. Plus again, how much is it to buy the two boxes on minis as well as the terrain, compared to getting the boxset.

Dice and gubbinz- The first time I saw this game being showed off, they said it was a going to be a great starting point for new players that want start 40k. How many new players will be put off buy having to first spend more money to buy just the base terrain + minis, only to be told you need to source the tokens and dice from some where else. Its great if you have been in to 40k for a long time, and have dice every where. Not so good for someone getting back in to it or starting outright.

 xttz wrote:

I can tell you from experience that managers are waaaaaaay more likely to be sacked for overproducing and tying up resources on dead stock than for underestimating demand and temporarily running out. .

Except, again, it's not a matter of 'temporarily running out' when the product is intended as a single, one-and-done release.

 RexHavoc wrote:

Dice and gubbinz- The first time I saw this game being showed off, they said it was a going to be a great starting point for new players that want start 40k.

Yup, there's nothing like a limited edition set that they can no longer buy for getting newcomers into gaming...