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Eh, I doubt they'll bother with a book that needs printing, storing, shipping, storing, distributing, storing and finally selling, some weeks/months after the ship has sailed. Even using Polish/Italian 6-week leadtimes for colour, they'd be risking being sat on stock as their PR is *now*. Far better to get a digital copy out during the scenery release window (PDF and/or enhanced iBook if they can get it through Apple in time) and capitalise on the current buzz they've paid to generate. After that, there's little point in a physical book in this day and age.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Eh, I doubt they'll bother with a book that needs printing, storing, shipping, storing, distributing, storing and finally selling, some weeks/months after the ship has sailed. Even using Polish/Italian 6-week leadtimes for colour, they'd be risking being sat on stock as their PR is *now*. Far better to get a digital copy out during the scenery release window (PDF and/or enhanced iBook if they can get it through Apple in time) and capitalise on the current buzz they've paid to generate. After that, there's little point in a physical book in this day and age. (in my opinion)

Edited your post.

On the whole I agree though. GW will probably just put up for sale an electroinc version. They'll ride it out for a month or so with people asking for a print version, then everyone will forget as 40k is re-released to even more hype.

Shame though... It was the first game rule set I've tried to buy from GW since I felt foolish for buying 40k 7th and that huge final set of Fantasy rules when it was released (8th? - I cba going into my loft to get see how many old versions I have stored since the 2nd edition 1984 box)

Vorian wrote:
Nope, I outlined multiple ways, one of which was requiring 1 box.

What I was refuting was that a group would need a box per player to play, which is obviously nonsense.

Depending on your circumstances you need a minimum of 0 or 1.

I need 0 (like plenty of people) and some people will insist they need 1 (even though all they actually need to do is wait a little bit).

Nope, you were just wrong. Why not drop it, or admit it and move on.

Anyone considering house rules already?

I know it might seem early given few of us have actually played this iteration, but hey.

Me, I'm kind of tempted to mix up equipment availability, if only to encourage conversions and otherwise unique Kill Teams down my local club - which for me is at least half the point of a game at this scale, no?

 Rayvon wrote:

Also,
The box I thought was coming for my brother was ordered from Wayland, and they cancelled the order yesterday, typical wayland games, selling stuff they do not have.

That kind of is how preorders work... It's hardly Wayland's fault that GW couldn't supply retailer orders in full.

frankelee wrote:

Vorian wrote:
Nope, I outlined multiple ways, one of which was requiring 1 box.

What I was refuting was that a group would need a box per player to play, which is obviously nonsense.

Depending on your circumstances you need a minimum of 0 or 1.

I need 0 (like plenty of people) and some people will insist they need 1 (even though all they actually need to do is wait a little bit).

Nope, you were just wrong. Why not drop it, or admit it and move on.

In what way?

I can play now without getting the box. That's zero boxes confirmed.

Any group can play if they get one box because they have access to the rules. One box confirmed.

Any group will be able to play once the rulebook is released separately without ever having to own a box. Zero boxes in the future confirmed.

These are all really simple concepts.

What is untrue is that a group of 4 people require 4 boxes.

oh yeah, tons of house rules and fan rules bubbling away. Sororitas, a cut down trading post, conversion rules to Necro, more stuff to spend Promethium Caches on, more spec ops...

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Anyone considering house rules already?

I know it might seem early given few of us have actually played this iteration, but hey.

Me, I'm kind of tempted to mix up equipment availability, if only to encourage conversions and otherwise unique Kill Teams down my local club - which for me is at least half the point of a game at this scale, no?

We're considering using the Necromunda advancement/injury tables since they're a bit more varied, possibly even including some of the gangs providing the power disparity between the new Kill Teams and them isn't too great.

I don't think you need house rules to encourage conversions though, since Kill Teams only need a few models, the game itself is a great outlet to flex some creative muscles. For example, my Chaos Cultist with Autopistol, which was a bit more hassle to make than just using one out of the box! --

The problem I'm imagining with just using Necro advancement is that these gangs all come out of the gate pretty strong.

Necromunda starts to break down once gangs are so good that they start shooting people off the table - so the limit on advances keeps the power level around what you'd get in the middle of a campaign. Between starter gang uselessness and end campaign Gods of destruction.

Also, cool conversion Cant wait to start cutting my scouts up!

 insaniak wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:

Also,
The box I thought was coming for my brother was ordered from Wayland, and they cancelled the order yesterday, typical wayland games, selling stuff they do not have.

That kind of is how preorders work... It's hardly Wayland's fault that GW couldn't supply retailer orders in full.

Nope, a pre order is when you sell something earlier that you know you will be able to sell, it is poor form to do pre orders if you might not be able to get your hands on the goods in question.

It was good that they offered him £5 store credit, but he seems pretty let down and wont be buying from there again because of this.

 Rayvon wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:

Also,
The box I thought was coming for my brother was ordered from Wayland, and they cancelled the order yesterday, typical wayland games, selling stuff they do not have.

That kind of is how preorders work... It's hardly Wayland's fault that GW couldn't supply retailer orders in full.

Nope, a pre order is when you sell something you know you will be able to sell, it is poor form to sell do pre orders if you might not be able to get your hands on the goods in question.

It was good that they offered him £5 store credit, but he seems pretty let down and wont be buying from there again because of this.

I'm split on this one.

On one hand, it's very much on GW (I know, me criticising GW!). They failed to predict the demand, despite having fed the hype machine. And now, they can't fulfil the demand.

On the other? This is Wayland, who don't exactly have the best of reputations when it comes to fulfilling customer orders.

In this case, it's impossible to tell which party is most at fault. It could simply be Wayland being Wayland and accepting orders they know they don't have stock for (hypothetically - ordering 100 from GW, but accepting 250 orders). It could be GW promising the 250, but only being able to provide 100. 50/50 fault here.

Right, back to conversions and that!

That Chaos Cultist is luvverly - but consider my Skitarii. Basic troops don't get many options at all. Essentially they either get a Rad Carbine or a Galvanic Rifle. No options for pistols or close combat weapons. Me, I'd like to open up some kind of basic Pistol and CCW choices, so I have an excuse to convert up a 'custom designed Kill Team' - not just by myself, but the Skitarii's Forgeworld having specially equipped Maniples for infiltration when the Spindlelimbs are stretched.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

I'm split on this one.

On one hand, it's very much on GW (I know, me criticising GW!). They failed to predict the demand, despite having fed the hype machine. And now, they can't fulfil the demand.

On the other? This is Wayland, who don't exactly have the best of reputations when it comes to fulfilling customer orders.

In this case, it's impossible to tell which party is most at fault. It could simply be Wayland being Wayland and accepting orders they know they don't have stock for (hypothetically - ordering 100 from GW, but accepting 250 orders). It could be GW promising the 250, but only being able to provide 100. 50/50 fault here.

Right, back to conversions and that!

That Chaos Cultist is luvverly - but consider my Skitarii. Basic troops don't get many options at all. Essentially they either get a Rad Carbine or a Galvanic Rifle. No options for pistols or close combat weapons. Me, I'd like to open up some kind of basic Pistol and CCW choices, so I have an excuse to convert up a 'custom designed Kill Team' - not just by myself, but the Skitarii's Forgeworld having specially equipped Maniples for infiltration when the Spindlelimbs are stretched.

Maybe I am being harsh to Wayland in this instance, there is always a chance that they were let down, this can happen with pre orders I guess.
I assumed they knew they had made a mistake by offering the credit.

Personally, I would never sell anything in the shops I have been involved with, until I had the items at hand.

I have not used them for a while now and when my brother told me had had made the order at noon on saturday, I told him he would not get it !

You could always take specialists - they get access to the pistols!

Edit: In terms of my own house rules, I'll be doing away with not carrying over money and not being able to buy just equipment.

 Rayvon wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

I'm split on this one.

On one hand, it's very much on GW (I know, me criticising GW!). They failed to predict the demand, despite having fed the hype machine. And now, they can't fulfil the demand.

On the other? This is Wayland, who don't exactly have the best of reputations when it comes to fulfilling customer orders.

In this case, it's impossible to tell which party is most at fault. It could simply be Wayland being Wayland and accepting orders they know they don't have stock for (hypothetically - ordering 100 from GW, but accepting 250 orders). It could be GW promising the 250, but only being able to provide 100. 50/50 fault here.

Right, back to conversions and that!

That Chaos Cultist is luvverly - but consider my Skitarii. Basic troops don't get many options at all. Essentially they either get a Rad Carbine or a Galvanic Rifle. No options for pistols or close combat weapons. Me, I'd like to open up some kind of basic Pistol and CCW choices, so I have an excuse to convert up a 'custom designed Kill Team' - not just by myself, but the Skitarii's Forgeworld having specially equipped Maniples for infiltration when the Spindlelimbs are stretched.

Maybe I am being harsh to Wayland in this instance, there is always a chance that they were let down, this can happen with pre orders I guess.
I assumed they knew they had made a mistake by offering the credit.

Personally, I would never sell anything in the shops I have been involved with, until I had the items at hand.

I have not used them for a while now and when my brother told me had had made the order at noon on saturday, I told him he would not get it !

You're absolutely not being too harsh on Wayland, they do this regularly and the way they operate is the key reason brick and mortar shops loose massive amounts of business.

They hold small amounts of stock but have everything on their website set as in stock, when you order it, they order it. And not even on express delivery.

My local shop told me that SWA was capped per retailer... multiple times, Wayland knew this, and yet unlike decent honest retailers like Element who sold their assignment and then took the product off sale, they added no stock counter intentionally because they knew that there would be a small number of the customers duped into ordering who would go along with the "when its back in stock we'll have it sent to you asap".

they're gutless.

Vorian wrote:The problem I'm imagining with just using Necro advancement is that these gangs all come out of the gate pretty strong.

Necromunda starts to break down once gangs are so good that they start shooting people off the table - so the limit on advances keeps the power level around what you'd get in the middle of a campaign. Between starter gang uselessness and end campaign Gods of destruction.

Well that's what we need to consider before implementing any changes. It really doesn't help that our only proper access so far to the SW:A rules has been the local GW store copy

Vorian wrote:Also, cool conversion Cant wait to start cutting my scouts up!

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:That Chaos Cultist is luvverly

Thanks!

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:consider my Skitarii. Basic troops don't get many options at all. Essentially they either get a Rad Carbine or a Galvanic Rifle. No options for pistols or close combat weapons. Me, I'd like to open up some kind of basic Pistol and CCW choices, so I have an excuse to convert up a 'custom designed Kill Team' - not just by myself, but the Skitarii's Forgeworld having specially equipped Maniples for infiltration when the Spindlelimbs are stretched.

Yeah I see what you mean. Seems strange that the rangers don't have access to pistols and even stranger that it seems only the Alpha has access to the Hand-to-hand equipment list and yet two items on the list are marked as "Alpha-only". Possibly an oversight, wouldn't be too egregious imho to houserule access.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:

Also,
The box I thought was coming for my brother was ordered from Wayland, and they cancelled the order yesterday, typical wayland games, selling stuff they do not have.

That kind of is how preorders work... It's hardly Wayland's fault that GW couldn't supply retailer orders in full.

Nope, a pre order is when you sell something you know you will be able to sell, it is poor form to sell do pre orders if you might not be able to get your hands on the goods in question.

It was good that they offered him £5 store credit, but he seems pretty let down and wont be buying from there again because of this.

I'm split on this one.

On one hand, it's very much on GW (I know, me criticising GW!). They failed to predict the demand, despite having fed the hype machine. And now, they can't fulfil the demand.

On the other? This is Wayland, who don't exactly have the best of reputations when it comes to fulfilling customer orders.

In this case, it's impossible to tell which party is most at fault. It could simply be Wayland being Wayland and accepting orders they know they don't have stock for (hypothetically - ordering 100 from GW, but accepting 250 orders). It could be GW promising the 250, but only being able to provide 100. 50/50 fault here.

Right, back to conversions and that!

That Chaos Cultist is luvverly - but consider my Skitarii. Basic troops don't get many options at all. Essentially they either get a Rad Carbine or a Galvanic Rifle. No options for pistols or close combat weapons. Me, I'd like to open up some kind of basic Pistol and CCW choices, so I have an excuse to convert up a 'custom designed Kill Team' - not just by myself, but the Skitarii's Forgeworld having specially equipped Maniples for infiltration when the Spindlelimbs are stretched.

GW had ample opportunity to tell us before launch of pre orders it was a limited or splash release. They decided not to. We have been trying all week to get a clear answer from them which we got Wednesday afternoon, and sent out the email Thursday morning.. GW are more than capable of seeing the pre order numbers from retailers (its the reason they ask for them), see there is a shortfall in the numbers produced and get some more into production, communicating a delay for later batches.. I am wary of getting into what motives there could be for artificially limiting supply of a product. And regarding another post regarding giving some store credit away, we are not to blame here, but we feel that customers should have something by way of apology and thanks, it isn't their fault.
If other retailers want to limit pre orders of a product when they have not been informed its a limited product, then that is up to them. The frustrating thing is that this could have been avoided if GW had just said it was a splash release day 1 and told us the absolute maximum we would get, ever. They didn't.

Ah, the FLGS in the next town is a multiple University town within walking distance of those places so they get rather huge hobby stock.
Confirmed the shortage may contributed slightly to them: some 50 SWA boxes they are sitting on for release tomorrow.
Got my reservation in.
Some $120 Canadian they are selling it for ($160 on the GW site).
I have all the Necromunda releases from way back when so I am interested in looking at the differences.
I heard that having a high attack stat may make that model a victim to fumble by increasing your odds.
Falling off, jams, grenade blast, weapon strength bonuses... it is all there, I am looking forward to this.
I agree that this game just begs an Inquisition war-band taking on a gene stealer cult or a bunch of cultists with some daemons: may have to create/modify some rules to suit.

To think I was distracted for a bit and may have missed this release and may have had no easy opportunity to get this game.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
This is Wayland, who don't exactly have the best of reputations when it comes to fulfilling customer orders.

Totally unfair - Wayland offers what amounts to "special orders" so they can serve customers who want items that they cannot profitably keep in stock. This amounts to there being long waits sometimes, because Wayland has to then actually obtain said items. It must be really, really irritating to Wayland to offer this service - something that other major online retailers don't do - only to have people turn it around on them. And the notion that Wayland is responsible for not being able to fulfill its Shadow War pre-orders is absurd considering this is clearly a GW snafu.

This has all happened before on a much smaller scale with the GS Cult dice and the Skaven BB dice. GW never bothered to tell anyone that the dice would be limited and lots of people who pre-ordered through retailers got jilted. BTW GW's response on the dice thing was to mark the latest BB set (for Dwarfs) Temp OOS - they have never yet come back into stock, AFAIK.

This.

If we're going this way, I've already made several orders with Wayland and none of them had any issue. Zero.

frankelee wrote:

Vorian wrote:
Nope, I outlined multiple ways, one of which was requiring 1 box.

What I was refuting was that a group would need a box per player to play, which is obviously nonsense.

Depending on your circumstances you need a minimum of 0 or 1.

I need 0 (like plenty of people) and some people will insist they need 1 (even though all they actually need to do is wait a little bit).

Nope, you were just wrong. Why not drop it, or admit it and move on.

I support Vorian here. It takes the most minor research plus the free downloads that GW themsleves last saturday provided to play the game free...now...

And when I say minor I mean..type necromunda rules pdf into google and its the first link.

True, technically you cannot use orks or space marines without the new box.

Which terrain set has the most platform sprues? The Galvanic Magnavent?

Im more interested in setting up platforms all over the place.

Process wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

I'm split on this one.

On one hand, it's very much on GW (I know, me criticising GW!). They failed to predict the demand, despite having fed the hype machine. And now, they can't fulfil the demand.

On the other? This is Wayland, who don't exactly have the best of reputations when it comes to fulfilling customer orders.

In this case, it's impossible to tell which party is most at fault. It could simply be Wayland being Wayland and accepting orders they know they don't have stock for (hypothetically - ordering 100 from GW, but accepting 250 orders). It could be GW promising the 250, but only being able to provide 100. 50/50 fault here.

Right, back to conversions and that!

That Chaos Cultist is luvverly - but consider my Skitarii. Basic troops don't get many options at all. Essentially they either get a Rad Carbine or a Galvanic Rifle. No options for pistols or close combat weapons. Me, I'd like to open up some kind of basic Pistol and CCW choices, so I have an excuse to convert up a 'custom designed Kill Team' - not just by myself, but the Skitarii's Forgeworld having specially equipped Maniples for infiltration when the Spindlelimbs are stretched.

Maybe I am being harsh to Wayland in this instance, there is always a chance that they were let down, this can happen with pre orders I guess.
I assumed they knew they had made a mistake by offering the credit.

Personally, I would never sell anything in the shops I have been involved with, until I had the items at hand.

I have not used them for a while now and when my brother told me had had made the order at noon on saturday, I told him he would not get it !

You're absolutely not being too harsh on Wayland, they do this regularly and the way they operate is the key reason brick and mortar shops loose massive amounts of business.

They hold small amounts of stock but have everything on their website set as in stock, when you order it, they order it. And not even on express delivery.

My local shop told me that SWA was capped per retailer... multiple times, Wayland knew this, and yet unlike decent honest retailers like Element who sold their assignment and then took the product off sale, they added no stock counter intentionally because they knew that there would be a small number of the customers duped into ordering who would go along with the "when its back in stock we'll have it sent to you asap".

they're gutless.

Sorry but you are incorrect. Our latest accounts show approx £1.4m of stock on hand. Our stock levels on our site, are the available stock levels in our primary warehouse. As in stock that is free and available and not allocated. SWA was capped for the first weeks orders. It wasntr identified as a limited or splash release.

 Fugazi wrote:
Which terrain set has the most platform sprues? The Galvanic Magnavent?

Im more interested in setting up platforms all over the place.

Make them into a hat.

Do it.

DO IT NAOW.

 Bull0 wrote:
GW UK haven't dispatched mine yet. It's annoying that I get a better service from discounters than I do going direct to the source.

Mine hasn't been dispatched from GW UK yet either

Just got mine, not opened it yet but the box is fething huge!

Also heard that al though GW online has sold out and more than likely GW shop stock, there is a large quantity ready for distribution routes so more may well come available through FLGs. Make of that what you will* but my supplier is confident here can get plenty more.

*this is heresay only albeit from Someone I trust.

Such a mess on GW's part. My local GW (actually Warhammer) shop has confirmed on Facebook that they won't be getting any copies at all in stock on Saturday. Hopefully this whole debacle makes them reconsider their strategy around limited releases. Also, on a semi-related note, why on earth isn't Space Hulk a core game in GW's inventory? I know they keep conveniently 'finding' more stock, but as one of the most popular games they've ever released I don't understand why it isn't generally available.

 nurgle5 wrote:
I don't think you need house rules to encourage conversions though, since Kill Teams only need a few models, the game itself is a great outlet to flex some creative muscles. For example, my Chaos Cultist with Autopistol, which was a bit more hassle to make than just using one out of the box! --

Agreed.

One of the things I always loved about Necromunda (and older versions of Kill Team) was that the small units involved really encouraged quite a bit of creativity.

Given that the "new edition" expands the range of factions and figures available, I expect to see some fun stuff once people get into it.

richstrach wrote:
Such a mess on GW's part. My local GW (actually Warhammer) shop has confirmed on Facebook that they won't be getting any copies at all in stock on Saturday. Hopefully this whole debacle makes them reconsider their strategy around limited releases. Also, on a semi-related note, why on earth isn't Space Hulk a core game in GW's inventory? I know they keep conveniently 'finding' more stock, but as one of the most popular games they've ever released I don't understand why it isn't generally available.

Is that the Edinburgh one by any chance? Your post made me check and they said the same thing.

It's more the extremely limited equipment options

My local store (Crawley) has said on faecebook that they will have some for purchase tomorrow.