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 aphyon wrote:
i forgot to mention there are several programs you can use to print out record sheets and just the official record sheets you can buy.

I have owned heavy metal pro/aero/vee/light for so long i swear by it especially since it allows me to print the record sheets out in inch/3d terrain rules as well as giving me the ability to build cannon loadouts that may not be in the database..

Heavy Metal is a little out of date, from what I've heard. Not having it, I can't say for sure, just passing on what I've heard from those who claim to have it.

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For every plastic model released in the AGoAC/Clan Invasion lines, there are Record Sheets available for free download.

For alternatives, there is Solaris SkunkWerks (SSW) and MegaMekLab (MML), both running on Java. I find SSW to be more user-friendly, but also lacking in certain capabilities like Super-Heavies and Tripods, as well as their provided 'Mech list being only up to ilClan Recognition Guide 10. SSW provides a good force builder (BFB) that calculates the BV of a selection, including C3 as well as a Combat Vehicle Builder (SAW). MegaMekLab is a bit more robust, even having options for building Conventional Infantry units and Warships. It's Mech list was up to ilClan Recognition Guide 12 last I checked. Both can print the Record Sheets with added tables, making looking up information like Movement Modifiers, Hit Locations, and Cluster Charts easier.

Then there's MechFactory, an Android app and website service. It is different. How it handles mech construction puts some things out of place, particularly the Head location. One of our group uses it exclusively, and aside from putting the free slot for the Head in slot 4, it defaults to being slot 6. He also has issues with it maintaining the armor allocation properly.

 2500kgm3 wrote:
"Yes, Kael Pershaw. I have read the reports. If the Wolves want to take the city, I dare them to try"

The circus is back in town. I can see all the clowns!

M.

If you are just using standard loadouts and pre-generated variants I have found MechFactory to be great.

Really like their roster sheets, it can feel a hair cluttered if you go from a standard sheet to that, but having the quick reference sheet built into the roster makes life so easy.

I have found that after all the patches are updated, other than a few of the new weapons after 3132 such as plasma and TSEMP, HMP has pretty much everything you need.

Gunsmith-heavy metal has the option to print out all the movement, hit tables etc on each control sheet, it is a nice quick reference especially for new players.

 2500kgm3 wrote:
"Yes, Kael Pershaw. I have read the reports. If the Wolves want to take the city, I dare them to try"

I have to admit, the presence of the circus tent somewhat undermines the display of Jade Falcon power.

 Charistoph wrote:
For alternatives, there is Solaris SkunkWerks (SSW) and MegaMekLab (MML), both running on Java. I find SSW to be more user-friendly, but also lacking in certain capabilities like Super-Heavies and Tripods, as well as their provided 'Mech list being only up to ilClan Recognition Guide 10. SSW provides a good force builder (BFB) that calculates the BV of a selection, including C3 as well as a Combat Vehicle Builder (SAW).

I swear by SSW.

The guy who made it basically wanted to do an updated version of The Drawing Board, the previous best mech design program out there. Sadly he stopped development of the program, leaving it to never receive updates... until he suddenly started working on it again! Now it's no longer a dead program, which is fantastic. I presume that eventually we'll get super-heavies and tripods.

As for the provided 'Mechs, I just ended up making the record sheets myself by hand, going through each of the Rec Guides and carefully adding everything in. I like making 'Mechs, so it's fun for me.

 Miguelsan wrote:
The circus is back in town. I can see all the clowns!

I would challenge you to a circle of equals for that jab, but we both know you aren't even close to my equal...

Come to the Confederacy and we will talk. You Green Chickens do well against the fat militias of the Blue Prusians, but not so well against the Warrior Houses of the Celestial Throne.

M.

Being threatened by a Cappie is like being attacked by a light breeze...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
As for the provided 'Mechs, I just ended up making the record sheets myself by hand, going through each of the Rec Guides and carefully adding everything in. I like making 'Mechs, so it's fun for me.

I've done that with some of the MWO mechs as well. I only mentioned it so as not to set expectations too high in that regard. Realistically, I have both SSW and MML on my computer, so opening up the mechs they have (aside from the units SSW can't make) and building them there isn't too much.

One other thing, if one's group is allowing for Quirks, MML will print them in the Weapons area right below the ammo count if you have MegaMekHQ's Quirk file. They don't always work with custom units, though, and one needs to edit the file in order to get them to show. Positional Quirks (like the Firestarter's Arm Flamers) don't show, either. We're doing a Campaign right now where Quirks are allowed, so it has been mostly convenient for that.

SSW's interface for adding Quirks is actually pretty good. Though, with the build I have, the Quirks aren't printing yet. SSW also can help provide for Alpha Strike Cards, except their PV is set to Battleforce values.

I didn't even know SSW could add Quirks. Where do you do that?

And yeah, I'm guilty of adding MWO variants as well. By hand.

Need to d/l the lastest version of SSW!

M.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I didn't even know SSW could add Quirks. Where do you do that?

And yeah, I'm guilty of adding MWO variants as well. By hand.

Sorry quirks are an abomination, they suddenly started appearing in my new TROs when they never existed before.

I know they are just more optional rules, however they do encourage the power gamer in some people.

I love quirks, but I don't play competitive Battletech, we play co-op or game mastered Battletech, so if we do get to design our own mechs... it has to clear a GM and not just be a munchkin mech.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I didn't even know SSW could add Quirks. Where do you do that?

It's under the 'Fluff' tab.

 Miguelsan wrote:
Come to the Confederacy and we will talk. You Green Chickens do well against the fat militias of the Blue Prusians, but not so well against the Warrior Houses of the Celestial Throne.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Being threatened by a Cappie is like being attacked by a light breeze...

Carry on with the in faction smack talk.

Ghaz wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I didn't even know SSW could add Quirks. Where do you do that?

It's under the 'Fluff' tab.

And underneath Manufacturers. There isn't much point, at present, as they don't print out on the Record Sheet nor can it export it to MML, but it can be nice when it can print it.

aphyon wrote:Sorry quirks are an abomination, they suddenly started appearing in my new TROs when they never existed before.

I know they are just more optional rules, however they do encourage the power gamer in some people.

Our local group doesn't use them on our weekly game nights, but we do have a campaign going, and the CM has decreed them in use. These aren't games balanced by BV, though, which Quirks aren't really priced for.

It made a Dragon really hard to kill as we were Glancing the heck out of it. Of course, that goes the other way as the Mercury II and Lancelot I have both have that Low/Narrow Profile feature. Quirks like that can also make a Thunderbolt a monster with MultiTrac and the original Stalker with Combat Computer.

The Wolverine is an interesting case, as it carries the most Quirks of any 'Mech in a TRO (at present). However, one of them is Cramped Cockpit, which can make a Regular Pilot fall pretty easily, and another is more Strategic in use (Ubiquitous which makes finding parts to repair it easy).

 Miguelsan wrote:
The circus is back in town.

Depiction of CJF capturing Wolf HQ.

 auticus wrote:
competitive Battletech

oh lord ...

Yeah competitive BattleTech seems like an odd thing in a game where you can literally design the most efficient design you want, and where there is a clear divide between ClanTech and not-ClanTech.

competitive battletech sounds like the definition of a square peg in a round hole.

Competitive BattleTech sound like a Trial of Bloodright...

As more 40k players begin examining BattleTech and starting the game (especially with the new excellent plastic models) you will start to see more and more competitive battletech be a thing. Particularly in the Alpha Strike format.

Tournaments are starting to spring up more and more.

Well Alpha Strike isn't really "BattleTech" in the traditional sense, so the problems you'd get with competitive BattleTech play have no relevance there as the rules might as well be in different languages they're so far removed from one another.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah competitive BattleTech seems like an odd thing in a game where you can literally design the most efficient design you want, and where there is a clear divide between ClanTech and not-ClanTech.

Outside of a campaign with a special op4 NPC mech design. in our group we do not allow any custom mechs of any kind. some mechs are more specialized than others but they have flaws/weapon groups for a reason.

If there is a kind of build you are looking for start looking through the available cannon designs. there are 698 base models (not counting the many variants of the chassis) of just mechs, not counting vehicles, VTOLs etc... i am certain any player could find something that fits the idea they are after.

And that isn't even counting the fact that the basic crit mechanic exists. sure you could power game the hell out of your mech design, and then get shot in the head with a weapon that does more than 9 damage, or an automatic crit (or 3) that destroys your engines are gyros.

The very concept of classic battletech being a tournament minded game for hardcore 40K players will quickly go away when they actually start playing the game.

auticus wrote:Tournaments are starting to spring up more and more.

CGL is sponsoring one at the Atlantic City Open this June.

Ruleset is BMM, though TW may be used, especially if you're running Elementals (AGAoC and Clan Invasion, too).

Looks like 6000BV, 3-6 units, no cost for 3/4 pilots, but one can have increases for Pilot for 1.1x, Gunnery for 1.2x, or both for 1.36x. 6 points of Battlefield Support Cards may be used (good to have the BMM for this).

Units restricted to chassis and variants in the Wave 1, 2, and Wolf's Dragoon free Record Sheet downloads. So no Hellstars, Republic, Society, or Wobbie Mechs.

CGL, Iron Wind, or Ral Partha models may be used, or their standees as well. They must represent the chassis in question where possible. 3D prints are only allowed for variant arms, but 80% of the model must remain original from the above.

My local campaign manager is also setting one up a little sooner (first Saturday in May), and he MIGHT be using a similar format, but limiting to Intro tech.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Well Alpha Strike isn't really "BattleTech" in the traditional sense, so the problems you'd get with competitive BattleTech play have no relevance there as the rules might as well be in different languages they're so far removed from one another.

It's close enough that it should be workable. I might find out this weekend as we have a Alpha Strike veteran learning to play CBT in our campaign mission this Saturday. The biggest differences is how Movement works, separation of Physical and Shooting Attacks, and the multiple ranges one might have to work with.

aphyon wrote:The very concept of classic battletech being a tournament minded game for hardcore 40K players will quickly go away when they actually start playing the game.

I wouldn't bet on it. Unless they themselves mature to a point to not be a hardcore tournament player any more, there will always be that push. Of course, they may leave the game, too.

 Charistoph wrote:
It's close enough that it should be workable. I might find out this weekend as we have a Alpha Strike veteran learning to play CBT in our campaign mission this Saturday. The biggest differences is how Movement works, separation of Physical and Shooting Attacks, and the multiple ranges one might have to work with.

Close enough? In Alpha Strike units don't even have individual weapons. They're not close at all.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:
It's close enough that it should be workable. I might find out this weekend as we have a Alpha Strike veteran learning to play CBT in our campaign mission this Saturday. The biggest differences is how Movement works, separation of Physical and Shooting Attacks, and the multiple ranges one might have to work with.

Close enough? In Alpha Strike units don't even have individual weapons. They're not close at all.

If you use the Multiple Rolls rule (which we do), it is a little closer, and I DID mention having to deal with multiple ranges, which comes due to the individual weapons situation. Then there are the Special Rules which can demark out other affects like AC, IF, SRM, LRM, and HT.

To a lot of people, myself included, Battle Tech is Battle Tech.

Alpha strike is as much Battle Tech as classic is.

I don't play Alpha Strike, am not interested in Alpha strike, so I'm not cheerleading Alpha strike.

It is however the most played version of Battle Tech near me, and the 40k players are jumping over to that format of the game and tournaments are starting to crop up more and more so... I see things swinging more to that end of the spectrum.

From a commercial standpoint... the game designers are likely paying attention to that as well. As the new rules coming out are more and more just battlemechs and the other elements are being weeded out... we will always have the classic rules available... but their latest offerings have been indicative to a lot of folks where their mind is currently at.

I was roasted pretty tastily by several people on one of the big BattleTech FB groups for saying I enjoy infantry and vehicles and hope that the new material they release starts including those again.

YMMV

I continue playing BT as a campaign game, and Catalyst continues to at least update the classic rules so I am still very happy with the game. I am not blind to where my community around me is moving toward pretty aggressively though - and thats toward alpha strike and tournament formats.

Battletech has too much random built into its DNA to ever be truly competitive. https://wolfsdragoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Alpha-Strike-Core-Tournament-Rules.pdf

Wolfnet is trying its best to make a fun experience with Alpha Strike (and succeeding, this is delightful) but there's still too much blind chance to consider it truly competitive. You can spend half your list on a mighty Daishi, and watch it explode to doulbe boxcars from a tiny warrior helicopter- or your opponent execute a perfect ambush, and whiff with 10 or 12 attacks.

It is very fun- but it really only tells you how your list and luck fared against your opponent most times. You're not going to enjoy yourself if you're taking it seriously.

 Gitzbitah wrote:
Battletech has too much random built into its DNA to ever be truly competitive.

Yeah, nobody has ever made a game on dice rolls on a competitive level even with money on the line...

And I've seen 40K and WarmaHordes be just as reliant on those same dice rolls, and both are considered very competitive games.

Yep. You can go into the 40k forum right now and find several people that will say 40k is too random to truly be competitive.

But we all know how huge the tournament scene is there.

I just know from the german speaking countries, but the BT event scene was big here in 90ies (it was also the first country wide organized scene something that 40k tries but still struggles), and I mean several different printed fanzines big
there was a time were it was the dominant tournament game and Warhammer Fantasy just took over because Dark Age was not received well and the scene died over night (and 6th Edi was released at the same time)

leagues between clubs (3025) were a famous format (including extensive sheets for salvage)

if 40k can have a large scene, BT can have as well and classic would be a much better system for it (at least how tournaments are done here, but there is a reason why 40k tournament scene is much bigger in the US)