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 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:
Total Warfare and Battlemech Manual are actually the same ruleset.

Yeah. We know that. And that wasn't the point I was making. The two above me got it.

But it was the point you were saying.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:
Alpha Strike IS part of Battletech now as much as Total Warfare is.

No. Total Warfare is the name of a rulebook. The rulebook for BattleTech, the game.

AlphaStrike is a different game as, just as those above me have said, Epic and 40k are different games, but are both in the 40k universe.

I haven't played Epic, so I can't really say as to all the nuances. However, it's not quite as set as that. With 40K, you are still removing individual soldiers, while with Epic you remove groups of soldiers. It's also not like GW has given a different name for their universe from their Heroic-scale game, either.

Alpha Strike and Total Warfare/Classic Battletech still have the same level of representation of the model, the major change is the detail of the weaponry and resilience. I still represent a platoon of Infantry, a Point of Protomechs, and individual Battlemechs as the same in both systems. In addition, I'm still doing the same process (though some values change) for declaring and resolving Attacks. There is far less difference between Alpha Strike and Total Warfare than there is between Epic and 40K.

I guess you're one of those who don't think AeroTech or BattleSpace is Battletech, either. I'm sorry, but that's just not a platform I can join you with.

Alpha Strike plays much quicker with inexperienced players. Old Battletech takes too long with long time players as they argue over which of the rules, they are going to use from the 30+ books over the years.

 Ghaz wrote:
As the others have stated, BattleTech covers the entire line, so it's the best way to specify which game is being referred to.

So does 40k, and I haven't seen this assertion anywhere.

If you say "I play Battletech" usually people mean (and almost everyone understand) "I play in the Battletech universe with the current Total Warfare rules or whichever is the latest or the one I prefer", I have never in my life seen it stated otherwise. Kinda like when people say "I play 40k".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Theophony wrote:
Alpha Strike plays much quicker with inexperienced players. Old Battletech takes too long with long time players as they argue over which of the rules, they are going to use from the 30+ books over the years.

Is that really the case? I can't say it's something I see a lot, unlike "3025 or clan era?" One of the benefits of having the core rules unchanged from 30+ years ago, I suspect.

That may be the case for experienced wargamers, but what of those who have no experience with BattleTech and don't have an experienced player to consult? Are they supposed to know that a rulebook with the title 'BattleTech: Total Warfare' is 'BattleTech' while a rulebook with the title 'BattleTech: Alpha Strike' is 'Alpha Strike'? With the influx of new blood into the BattleTech universe, clarity for the new players is a good thing if we want to keep them in the game and it's not worth throwing a hissy fit if someone calls 'BattleTech: Total Warfare' as 'Total Warfare'.

 Theophony wrote:
Alpha Strike plays much quicker with inexperienced players. Old Battletech takes too long with long time players as they argue over which of the rules, they are going to use from the 30+ books over the years.

Honestly, I just really want a middle ground. Alpha Strike is too streamlined for what I want, but classic Battletech could really benefit from more modern combat resolution. Lance scale combat essentially. It takes way too long in classic, but Alpha Strike definitely aims for much larger forces. I suppose the 1 Star = 2 Lances ratio doesn't exactly make something like that easy.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Theophony wrote:
Alpha Strike plays much quicker with inexperienced players. Old Battletech takes too long with long time players as they argue over which of the rules, they are going to use from the 30+ books over the years.

Honestly, I just really want a middle ground. Alpha Strike is too streamlined for what I want, but classic Battletech could really benefit from more modern combat resolution. Lance scale combat essentially. It takes way too long in classic, but Alpha Strike definitely aims for much larger forces. I suppose the 1 Star = 2 Lances ratio doesn't exactly make something like that easy.

The Alpha Strike: Commander's Edition gives a bunch of options to add more flavor.

I stayed away from Battletech for 30+ years because it was too much pencilwork. The local shop has a bunch of long-time players and they are not the best at teaching new folks the game. Especially if you are not willing to learn the history and lore in exacting detail .

 Ghaz wrote:
That may be the case for experienced wargamers, but what of those who have no experience with BattleTech and don't have an experienced player to consult? Are they supposed to know that a rulebook with the title 'BattleTech: Total Warfare' is 'BattleTech' while a rulebook with the title 'BattleTech: Alpha Strike' is 'Alpha Strike'? With the influx of new blood into the BattleTech universe, clarity for the new players is a good thing if we want to keep them in the game and it's not worth throwing a hissy fit if someone calls 'BattleTech: Total Warfare' as 'Total Warfare'.

At this point, I rather have to honestly wonder about how honestly are you asking these questions, because it's the first time someone seems to have had any kind of trouble making the distinction.

But hey, you do you. I, personally, would just say that it's not worth throwing a hissy fit if someone calls 'BattleTech: Total Warfare' as 'Battletech', either.

 Ghaz wrote:
Are they supposed to know that a rulebook with the title 'BattleTech: Total Warfare' is 'BattleTech' while a rulebook with the title 'BattleTech: Alpha Strike' is 'Alpha Strike'?

Yes. Because it's obvious.

When someone says "I play 40k", the response isn't "But which 40k? Command Edition? Elite Edition? Recruit Edition? Kill-Team? Aeronautica Imperialis? Blackstone Fortress? Necromunda?".

BattleTech is the game of BattleTech. Everything beyond that - BattleTroops, the RPG, AlphaStrike, BattleForce, etc. - are just spin-off games.

 Charistoph wrote:

I guess you're one of those who don't think AeroTech or BattleSpace is Battletech, either. I'm sorry, but that's just not a platform I can join you with.

Depends on what you mean by 'is BattleTech". Are they part of the basic rules? No. Do they feature optional rules that allow them to be integrated into a game of BattleTech? Yes. Are they required to play a game of BattleTech? Not even slightly. So... context and POV make that question a matter of opinion.

BattleForce and Alpha Strike are separate games that CANNOT be integrated into a game of BattleTech. They are a different set of rules intended for a different purpose - larger scale combat in the BatlleTech universe. So they're part of the BT UNIVERSE, but not part of the BT GAME, yes?

I suppose that's the issue. When you say 'Is not BattleTech", do you mean 'not part of the BT universe', or 'not part of the game CALLED BattleTech'? The answer varies from there.

The thing is the TT game was always just BattleTech to me since i started playing it in 1987. the moniker of "classic" had to be added on after fanpro/catalyst to differentiate it from the dark age clicky game and everything else that followed.

They all may be set in the BattleTech/MechWarrior universe, but to me there is only one game that is actually called BattleTech. otherwise, you are playing
.dark age
.alpha strike
.the MechWarrior RPG

the "confusion" over the name really just comes down to what books you need v what books you may find useful

also the BattleTech: Alpha Strike bit is clear and obvious once you know its a different game system prior to that it looks like an expansion

easy to see someone picking up AS and then a source book for the base game and getting confused, not hard to work out, but branding AS as "Alpha Stike" with "BattleTech" as a sub heading or something could help

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


BattleTech is the game of BattleTech. Everything beyond that - BattleTroops, the RPG, AlphaStrike, BattleForce, etc. - are just spin-off games.

You guys have ruined an entire page of this thread over an argument based on your inability to accept that meaning evolves over time. There is no current rulebook for a game just called 'Battletech'. CGL has made it quite clear what all the various ways to enjoy the Battletech universe are, and Total Warfare is now the name of the standard ruleset that's been there since the beginning.

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


BattleTech is the game of BattleTech. Everything beyond that - BattleTroops, the RPG, AlphaStrike, BattleForce, etc. - are just spin-off games.

You guys have ruined an entire page of this thread over an argument based on your inability to accept that meaning evolves over time. There is no current rulebook for a game just called 'Battletech'. CGL has made it quite clear what all the various ways to enjoy the Battletech universe are, and Total Warfare is now the name of the standard ruleset that's been there since the beginning.

Total Warfare is not actually even a game at all, according to Catalyst.

From the back of Total Warfare:

Total Warfare is the single-source rulebook for people who play BattleTech.

It is not intended to teach new players the game, but rather to serve as a reference work for people who know the game, while introducing more technologies and expansive rules than appear in the basic box set. The introductory game in the BattleTech line is the line is the A Game of Armored Combat box set. New players should pick up that product before diving into this one.

Construction rules for the various units presented in Total Warfare can be found in TechManual.

Comparatively, this is what they say in the back of the AS book:

Alpha Strike is a new, fast-playing form of the BattleTech game of futuristic, armored combat. Developed for the modern tabletop miniatures wargamer, this book brings players the ability to wage war on land, sea, and air using the Quick-Strike game system first devised for truly large-scale play, re-scaled to the tactical level of “classic” BattleTech.

Complete with sample armies and a ready-to-play campaign system, all you need besides this book are dice, miniatures, and tabletop terrain to fight for control over the Inner Sphere on land, sea, and air—one world at a time!

So at least they believe that AS is a separate form of the Battletech game, while TW is simply a reference book to play Battletech.

 Albertorius wrote:
So at least they believe that AS is a separate form of the Battletech game, while TW is simply a reference book to play Battletech.

A 'fast-playing form of the BattleTech game' is still a 'form of the BattleTech game' just like the rules in Total Warfare are the 'original form of the BattleTech game'.

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


BattleTech is the game of BattleTech. Everything beyond that - BattleTroops, the RPG, AlphaStrike, BattleForce, etc. - are just spin-off games.

You guys have ruined an entire page of this thread over an argument based on your inability to accept that meaning evolves over time. There is no current rulebook for a game just called 'Battletech'. CGL has made it quite clear what all the various ways to enjoy the Battletech universe are, and Total Warfare is now the name of the standard ruleset that's been there since the beginning.

Agreed. I've said all that I have to say on the matter.

Any word on if CGL will sell plastic mechs individually? If I build the 3025 Black Widow company, I'll need some duplicates.

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
Any word on if CGL will sell plastic mechs individually? If I build the 3025 Black Widow company, I'll need some duplicates.

Only via the random Salvage Boxes.

https://bg.battletech.com/news/now-available-battlemech-recognition-guide-ilclan-vol-29/



BattleMech Recognition Guide: ilClan, Vol. 29
PDF: $3.99

The march of technology across BattleTech’s eras is relentless—but some war machines never die. This PDF-only series includes brand-new BattleMechs and OmniMechs, alongside Classic ’Mechs and combat vehicles from both the Inner Sphere and the Clans rebuilt with the latest technology to keep them competitive on modern battlefields. This series also includes in-universe development notes, battle histories, notable pilots, and record sheets for each unit.

Catalyst Web Store: https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/products/battletech-recognition-guide-ilclan-vol-29
DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/422295/BattleTech-Recognition-Guide-ilClan-Vol-29

Contents via the BattleTech Forums:

pokefan548 wrote:

Spoiler:

Mobile HQ
Hetzer
Eurus (New)
Dragoon (New)
Ontos
Firefly
Assassin
Dervish
Charger
Sagittaire

We've got a platter of very tasty morsels this week, boys.

 aphyon wrote:
The thing is the TT game was always just BattleTech to me since i started playing it in 1987. the moniker of "classic" had to be added on after fanpro/catalyst to differentiate it from the dark age clicky game

Which I found funny because Dark Age isn't even called Battletech, it was released as Mechwarrior: Dark Age because non-Battletech people knew the video games better.

The new is so rude and I can't wait to run one!

 Ghaz wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
So at least they believe that AS is a separate form of the Battletech game, while TW is simply a reference book to play Battletech.

A 'fast-playing form of the BattleTech game' is still a 'form of the BattleTech game' just like the rules in Total Warfare are the 'original form of the BattleTech game'.

But the rules in Total Warfare are just a compendium of rules for that "original form of the Battletech game", not "the Battletech game", either old or new: Catalyst is telling you, very specifically, that Total War is not the Battletech game, but rather a compilation of rules for Battletech, and that it's not a good starting point either: it's a supplement for the game, which, if anything, would be A Game of Armored Combat, NOT Total Warfare.

 Ghaz wrote:

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
Any word on if CGL will sell plastic mechs individually? If I build the 3025 Black Widow company, I'll need some duplicates.

Only via the random Salvage Boxes.

Thanks for the reply. I thought about Iron Wind for singles, but the prices! For a little bit more one can get a full lance in plastic and just use the duplicates.

I know they won't do it, obviously, but I'd love for them to go with stls too ^^

Even if only for variant mod parts to use to kitbash the official models.

The new Sagittaire is interesting. Not sold on the VSPLs, but the inclusion of Clan DHS makes a world of difference.

The new Firefly is nice.

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
Any word on if CGL will sell plastic mechs individually? If I build the 3025 Black Widow company, I'll need some duplicates.

Only via the random Salvage Boxes.

Thanks for the reply. I thought about Iron Wind for singles, but the prices! For a little bit more one can get a full lance in plastic and just use the duplicates.

This was more true at the original lance pack MSRPs but after the increase there's a bit more gap there. The IWM minis are great for filling in a duplicate because you can build them in different poses and the detail is much sharper. Plus, once you've bought a couple IWM minis you won't be able to resist the urge to start adding mechs that aren't in plastic

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
Any word on if CGL will sell plastic mechs individually? If I build the 3025 Black Widow company, I'll need some duplicates.

Only via the random Salvage Boxes.

Thanks for the reply. I thought about Iron Wind for singles, but the prices! For a little bit more one can get a full lance in plastic and just use the duplicates.

This was more true at the original lance pack MSRPs but after the increase there's a bit more gap there. The IWM minis are great for filling in a duplicate because you can build them in different poses and the detail is much sharper. Plus, once you've bought a couple IWM minis you won't be able to resist the urge to start adding mechs that aren't in plastic

Remember however that not all of the Iron Wind Metals minis are the updated designs.

 Prometheum5 wrote:
This was more true at the original lance pack MSRPs but after the increase there's a bit more gap there. The IWM minis are great for filling in a duplicate because you can build them in different poses and the detail is much sharper. Plus, once you've bought a couple IWM minis you won't be able to resist the urge to start adding mechs that aren't in plastic

At least in the case of the Griffin GRF-1N, it's $18.50 from Iron Wind, and the Beginner's Box that has the plastic one sells for $19.99 at Miniature Market. Similarly MM sells the Inner Sphere Battle Lance (Warhammer, Rifleman, Phoenix Hawk, and Wasp) at $15.99. All of those are iconic mechs and are frequently on opposite sides in scenarios. Now with the past year's inflation, it is possible that the price will increase once they are back in stock at MM.

So I need six mechs to complete the Black Widow Company: Wasp, 2 Stingers, Griffin, Crusader, and Phoenix Hawk. The IS Battle Lance will take care of four of those. Are plastic Stingers available outside of the Command Lance? Also, are plastic Griffins and Thunderbolts available outside of the starter boxes?


Black Widow Company in 3025 AD
Command Lance Fire Lance Recon Lance
Warhammer Archer* Rifleman*
Marauder* Archer* Phoenix Hawk
Crusader Wasp Stinger
Griffin Stinger* Stinger

At present, there are no 'Mechs that are in multiple Force Packs, with the exception of the unique sculpts in the Kickstarter-exclusive Legendary MechWarriors Force Pack and in the Wolf's Dragoons Assault Star Force Pack. The upcoming Mercenary Force Packs will also have two reposed and/or variant 'Mechs, along with a jumping 'Mech and a new 'Mech in each pack.

 Ghaz wrote:
At present, there are no 'Mechs that are in multiple Force Packs, with the exception of the unique sculpts in the Kickstarter-exclusive Legendary MechWarriors Force Pack and in the Wolf's Dragoons Assault Star Force Pack. The upcoming Mercenary Force Packs will also have two reposed and/or variant 'Mechs, along with a jumping 'Mech and a new 'Mech in each pack.

Thanks for the reply. I see that the Eridani Light Horse Hunter Lance will have a Thunderbolt, and as I also like the Eridani Light Horse that set would make it on the wish list anyway.

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:

 Prometheum5 wrote:
This was more true at the original lance pack MSRPs but after the increase there's a bit more gap there. The IWM minis are great for filling in a duplicate because you can build them in different poses and the detail is much sharper. Plus, once you've bought a couple IWM minis you won't be able to resist the urge to start adding mechs that aren't in plastic

At least in the case of the Griffin GRF-1N, it's $18.50 from Iron Wind, and the Beginner's Box that has the plastic one sells for $19.99 at Miniature Market. Similarly MM sells the Inner Sphere Battle Lance (Warhammer, Rifleman, Phoenix Hawk, and Wasp) at $15.99. All of those are iconic mechs and are frequently on opposite sides in scenarios. Now with the past year's inflation, it is possible that the price will increase once they are back in stock at MM.

So I need six mechs to complete the Black Widow Company: Wasp, 2 Stingers, Griffin, Crusader, and Phoenix Hawk. The IS Battle Lance will take care of four of those. Are plastic Stingers available outside of the Command Lance? Also, are plastic Griffins and Thunderbolts available outside of the starter boxes?


Black Widow Company in 3025 AD
Command Lance Fire Lance Recon Lance
Warhammer Archer* Rifleman*
Marauder* Archer* Phoenix Hawk
Crusader Wasp Stinger
Griffin Stinger* Stinger

For your specific case, since I also built the same force, I think I cheated and swapped one of the Stingers for the new WSP-1W Wasp from the Alpha Strike box. Three Stingers seemed like a lot, even as accuracy-focused as I am. The nice thing with the duplicate Archers is that you can grab the Legendary Morgan Kell Archer for a second pose, or make one a Wolf Archer from the WD Star.

https://www.fortressminiaturesandgames.com/ sells singles/loose mechs.

Also, I thought the newest Merc Force Packs were supposed to be set in the current timeline, not the 4th Succession Wars timeline.

Although I believe the pilot cards will have a Notable Pilot from each time period.

 TalonZahn wrote:
Also, I thought the newest Merc Force Packs were supposed to be set in the current timeline, not the 4th Succession Wars timeline.

The Fourth Succession War was from 3028 to 3030. Each of the unreleased Mercenary Force Packs have a 'Mech which was introduced decades after the Fourth Succession War.

Northwind Highlanders Command Lance (Gunslinger - 3053)
Kell Hounds Striker Lance (Nightsky - 3053)
Hansen’s Roughriders Battle Lance (Penetrator - 3053)
Eridani Light Horse Hunter Lance (Sagittaire - 3063)
Gray Death Legion Heavy Battle Lance (Regent - 3145)