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To me it's hard to believe people are actually backing this. Sub par rules, sub par models but in the end, overpriced prices for what is offered. Since this is marketed as wargame, and in this Department, it is sub par in every apsect compared to what is on the market. Not really surprised they are 'failing' with this one.

Carlovonsexron wrote:
Tywins armor suffers from a bad case of “too much sci fi” IMO.

He looks like he's about to fight Space Vin Diesel.

I like Tywin ... where they held back with Eddard they added a little bit too much bling on him, but I still like it. I am backing this project because I like ASOFAI and I want to paint the characters. Hopefully the models are not as sub-par as some here are stating ...

War Games perform badly on Kickstarter no matter the source material or designer. This is the second biggest table top wargame so far but if this was a board game instead it would likely have cleared 5 million by now.

I don't think there is anything really wrong with the rules. They seem competent enough and are still being refined. I may also use the models for a game of thrones skirmish game (likely LOTR rules).

I do think the RRP is too high for these boxes but still cheaper than the similar boxes Wyrd are putting out for their rank and file game and similar to Rune Wars (but with better sculpts, in my opinion).

I'd say both,

(CMON) wargames are clearly less popular than boardgames on KS

as well as general bias there are just too many KS folk who have to have everything so won't consider a game where you're going to have to keep buying stuff, they want to spend their cash then bask in their complete collection


and GoT the TV show is a bigger draw than the books, I've certainly seen a fair few folk saying they'd have backed but the minis don't look like the characters/units from the TV (on social media/forums)

(its a lot harder for even the book fans to see the minis as 'right' as everybody will have their own mental images which may not bear that much resemblance to what GRRM has described in the book)

Edit: Plus if your a fan of one of the GoT factions the odds are you're not yet being represented, too many of them are planned for later retail and if your favourite is amongst them you might as well wait and see if it takes off and then grab them

and finally I suspect the fact that the rules aren't done/finalised is worrying some of the wargamers who might want to get involved as they still don't know enough about what play will be like

(plus a degree of healthy scepticism about support/availability post KS especially for those outside the USA, the availability of CMON wargames is a bit iffy and it's a lot harder to sell a system to your mates if direct ordering with no discount may be the main way you have to end up buying)

EDIT: plus it's not scratching the fantasy itch for people as there's no magic or monsters (yet), if your keen on historical (or pseudo historical) you might as well buy a bunch of perry/fireforge/dirt cheap metals and one of the cheap & fun independent rule sets, there's just less drive to pick up CMONs expensive offering

Mercenaries Tactics deck - will allow Boltons to be fielded on their own.



and then the rest of the Stark Bowmen in one go (OK $40k go )



Hint of things to come? - Possible Bolton Cavalry

I'm just feeling meh on this one, actually dropping my buck pledge.

It did get me looking at historicals though, where I can get hard plastic minis for less than a buck each.

Tywin looks like he abducted the dark lord Sauron's tailor. Not too impressed with that.

that 955k stretch goal will be tough to get .... a cavalry unit add on (Tullys) might bring us there, but without model add-ons like the Cutthroats this SG seems faaar away ....

They teased Bolton Cavalry in the last update so expect we will see them as an addon at some point. I am hoping they will give us the Lannister crossbows and Tully Cavalary as stretch goals but looking unlikely now

They have confirmed that the only way to get the Champion of the Faith exclusive sculpt is to buy a Lannister Knights box which is annoying as I already have more than enough knights coming with my two pledges thanks to the free stretch goals so don't need a third but have no choice if I want the KS exclusive.

Scale picture with Blood Rage and Zombicide BP minis (ASOIAF minis in the image are resin prototypes)

 smurfORnot wrote:
To me it's hard to believe people are actually backing this. Sub par rules, sub par models but in the end, overpriced prices for what is offered. Since this is marketed as wargame, and in this Department, it is sub par in every apsect compared to what is on the market. Not really surprised they are 'failing' with this one.

Yeah, opinions aren't a thing. It's not like people like different things and all. Also, how are they failing? They have tripled their set goal. You can't call a 900k (which will probably go over a million before it ends) campaign for a totally new game a failure. I really don't see what the issue is here. You don't have to like it, and you certainly don't have to back the kickstarter if you don't want to.

 alleus wrote:

 smurfORnot wrote:
To me it's hard to believe people are actually backing this. Sub par rules, sub par models but in the end, overpriced prices for what is offered. Since this is marketed as wargame, and in this Department, it is sub par in every apsect compared to what is on the market. Not really surprised they are 'failing' with this one.

Yeah, opinions aren't a thing. It's not like people like different things and all. Also, how are they failing? They have tripled their set goal. You can't call a 900k (which will probably go over a million before it ends) campaign for a totally new game a failure. I really don't see what the issue is here. You don't have to like it, and you certainly don't have to back the kickstarter if you don't want to.

That's certainly fine for a minis game. It's not like there's much in the way of correlation between kickstarter success and long term pickup when it comes to minis games anyway.

 Alpharius wrote:
Still hard to believe that this hasn't cracked $1M yet.

I'll just add that, for boardgamers, this is an expensive game they might not be able to get to the table, and it's only the starter set. Boardgamers are also lukewarm on RuneWars.

I imagine that X-Wing will be the "lifestyle" miniatures game that will win (and has probably already has won) out.

ced1106 wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Still hard to believe that this hasn't cracked $1M yet.

I'll just add that, for boardgamers, this is an expensive game they might not be able to get to the table, and it's only the starter set. Boardgamers are also lukewarm on RuneWars.

I imagine that X-Wing will be the "lifestyle" miniatures game that will win (and has probably already has won) out.

And if I can add, as a gamer with, let's just say, around 2,000 Warhammer Fantasy or compatible miniatures, telling me that I'll need to buy four to six $35 unit boxes at a cost of $140 to $210 just to round out one of the armies I will be receiving in my $170 (including shipping) starter set, leaves me feeling tepid as well.

frankelee wrote:

ced1106 wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Still hard to believe that this hasn't cracked $1M yet.

I'll just add that, for boardgamers, this is an expensive game they might not be able to get to the table, and it's only the starter set. Boardgamers are also lukewarm on RuneWars.

I imagine that X-Wing will be the "lifestyle" miniatures game that will win (and has probably already has won) out.

And if I can add, as a gamer with, let's just say, around 2,000 Warhammer Fantasy or compatible miniatures, telling me that I'll need to buy four to six $35 unit boxes at a cost of $140 to $210 just to round out one of the armies I will be receiving in my $170 (including shipping) starter set, leaves me feeling tepid as well.

The three game sizes are 30, 40 and 50 points. The starter set comes with enough units for a 30 point force for both factions including a couple of options for commanders, attachments and non combat characters. The extra unit and attachments offered so far in the Kickstarter bring it up to 40 points per faction (with a 7 point mercenary unit available as well). I am still hoping for an extra unit for each faction to bring extra variety to the 30 and 40 games. For an initial investment of $150 that doesn't seem too bad.

I decided to go for 2 pledges which should give me around 75 points worth of options for both factions (and around 85 if they do unlock a second free unit for each faction). Plus 14 points of mercenary units (and extra points for mercenary attachments on top of that).

So two large forces with a variety of options for $300 doesn't seem that bad to me (if you add 2 addon units of Bolton Cuttroats then you also get a 30 point mercenary army as well, once they unlock Bolton Cavalry you can probably push that to 40 for an extra $30 which also gives more mercenary options for Stark and Lannister).

It is a big investment but that is also a lot of models and have two - three tournament ready forces. If you can split two boxes with a. Friend then even better. The game will be more expensive at retail but with a decent online discount it looks at least comparable to similar games.

The one thing that has me worried is unit power creep but it sounds like they are going to try to avoid faction bloat as much as they can.

 alleus wrote:

 smurfORnot wrote:
To me it's hard to believe people are actually backing this. Sub par rules, sub par models but in the end, overpriced prices for what is offered. Since this is marketed as wargame, and in this Department, it is sub par in every apsect compared to what is on the market. Not really surprised they are 'failing' with this one.

Yeah, opinions aren't a thing. It's not like people like different things and all. Also, how are they failing? They have tripled their set goal. You can't call a 900k (which will probably go over a million before it ends) campaign for a totally new game a failure. I really don't see what the issue is here. You don't have to like it, and you certainly don't have to back the kickstarter if you don't want to.

Plenty of campaigns where goal is set low and you have 1000% funded...
Dark Souls, which was totaly new game on less Popular IP(I am fairly certain than GOt fans largly outnumber DS fans out there) blew this out of water, $ wise and backers wise. And it was apparent from begining game won't be that good to begin with...I would be very surprised if this became a thing...it will probably die out slowly.

It's probably worth adding this here now given that we are in the final week. Whilst it says that only 4 Long bows have been unlocked all 12 will be provided even if the goal isn't hit. A Mercenary tactics deck has also been unlocked but isn't shown which allows a third faction. I am still hoping for 2 additional units to be unlocked as stretch goals (Gold Cloak Crossbows and Tully Cavalier) and one last addon unit (Bolton Cavalier)




Plus addons, most of these units are already included in the pledge level except for the Bolton Cuthroats -

I think this is a hard sell for many fans... it's a recreation of a much less "fantasy" period of Westeros history, when there were basically just men fighting against other men. I don't think people want that. They want to use Dany's dragons to burn white walkers, they want a legion of fearless Unsullied, dragonfire, screaming wildlings led by enormous giants, legions of Dothraki riders, Direwolves and Faceless Men... this is just so bland in comparison. It's like if GWs Lord of the Rings was nothing but Gondor and Rohan. No idea why they chose this period as the basis for the game.

If they'd have started the campaign with a single free unit alongside George, and then stretch goaled out some units real quick, they would have been fine. People just looked at it and didn't see value, then no value came within the first few days and they moved on to something else. CMON just had to be so cute with the way they did things that they cost themselves several million dollars in KS funds and ensured the game would not have an adequate community playing it when it got to stores.

Or go even further, does anyone really believe that if they just started the campaign with six free units on the Hand of the King Pledge that they wouldn't have made lots and lots of money, even with plastic ruler stretch goals? They've run so many successful campaigns, it probably doesn't even occur to them that they screwed up.

Some aspects of it were poorly handled from the start. Even the design of the Kickstarter page was appaling. You had to scroll post through three screens of different move animations then 13 screens of model and rule previews before the graphic which actually showed what you received in the pledge. That pledge graphic also didn't break down the actual game box components and showed a picture missing around a third of the models to undersell it even more. Thankfully they have improved it now (although I would still split the Sword Swords and Lannister Guards into 2 separate units to show just how many models you get). Previously the only way to actually find out what come in the box was to open the draft rule book PDF.

You could really tell that Thiago was on paternity leave at the start of the campaign as he is usually the one to design the page and he does them well. He has redesigned it a little this week but still very cluttered.

Yes I think if they'd started with 6 free units already in the box they might have had a higher initial uptake but they'd have had lots of drop outs when they didn't carry on shovelling in more free stuff

(value hunter KS backers get upset when stretch goals don't shower them with more free stuff)

and retailers might well have been reluctant to stock the initial (most important) offerings as every backer would have had multiple copies of each unit to sell on (and store owners are even more reluctant to stock new wargames than they are to stock new boardgames as its easier to get stuck with a mound of unsold stuff)

I suspect that given what this is (a wargame) and what period of GoT it's based on (the books, before any of the more fantasy stuff showed up, and only involving 2 of the main factions) its probably doing reasonably well

playing with the stretch goals might have brought in a little more,

Using the KS exclusive sculpts to do more poses for the units rather than 'wasting' most of them on alternate character sculpts where you can't use both of them in the same game might well have helped too

they might be looking at $1.25 million and 7000 backers instead of almost $1 million and 6000 backers

but without the TV show liknesses and all the factions (the real weakness in my opinion) available at once I don't think it ever had the potential to do black plague numbers

after all compared to CMONs last wargame Wrath of Kings they've already got more cash and backers in a far shorter time (3,756 backers pledged $718,152 over a full month) with 7 days still to go

Personally I'm not backing due to a mix of KS fatigue, other campaigns competing for my KS dosh (I can probably manage at most two of this, the Mierce dungeon bash, and Bones IV), and just not having been quite as captivated by the campaign as I'd hoped to be. There's lots of good here. I'm still confident the game will be solid. But for me there's not quite enough value in the core box, largely due to the duplicate sculpts.

Early release picture of the new Lannister miniatures! I just got mine! SO ACCURATE!!!

I don't think I'll book this, but I have to say I love the look of the minis

 Mymearan wrote:
I think this is a hard sell for many fans... it's a recreation of a much less "fantasy" period of Westeros history, when there were basically just men fighting against other men. I don't think people want that. They want to use Dany's dragons to burn white walkers, they want a legion of fearless Unsullied, dragonfire, screaming wildlings led by enormous giants, legions of Dothraki riders, Direwolves and Faceless Men... this is just so bland in comparison. It's like if GWs Lord of the Rings was nothing but Gondor and Rohan. No idea why they chose this period as the basis for the game.

You've absolutely hit the heart of the problem. It's as if they've tried to make the most boring version of GoT possible.

It doesn't help that the TV show has moved further into High Fantasy than the books. I do like that each army has its own visual style that is reflected in different ways through the unit types and hopefully that is something they can carry on moving forward (I expect to see a nice Viking inspired Greyjoy army next year).

One thing that does appear to have changed is that CMON have said they are undecided on whether to release future factions direct to retail or through Kickstarter where as before it was direct to retail only (Kickstarter works nicely for me as hard to get CMON products at all or with a good discount in the UK).

This looks quite good, I wonder how the minis would scale up for use in AoS

Since they're the same size as the BLOODRAGE minis.. they are a perfect fit for Chaos Marauders or such. The BLOODRAGE minis I mean.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
I think this is a hard sell for many fans... it's a recreation of a much less "fantasy" period of Westeros history, when there were basically just men fighting against other men. I don't think people want that. They want to use Dany's dragons to burn white walkers, they want a legion of fearless Unsullied, dragonfire, screaming wildlings led by enormous giants, legions of Dothraki riders, Direwolves and Faceless Men... this is just so bland in comparison. It's like if GWs Lord of the Rings was nothing but Gondor and Rohan. No idea why they chose this period as the basis for the game.

You've absolutely hit the heart of the problem. It's as if they've tried to make the most boring version of GoT possible.

I don't disagree with the KS being underwhelming and that the low fantasy starter set doesn't have the more exciting high fantasy elements but I don't think CMON could have released high fantasy factions in this KS. They needed to go low fantasy alt War of the Roses because that was the easiest and best way to create a balanced wargame. If they had a Daenerys faction with 3 dragons how would that not be game breaking? Is there any other faction with reliable anti-dragon capabilities? If the starter in this KS was Daenerys vs Lannisters the game would boil down to whether or not you get lucky rolls for a ballista shots before the dragons wiped out your army. That doesn't sound balanced or fun.

A white walker faction has similar issues. A white walker led wight horde army would be virtually unstoppable unless the opposing faction could equip a good sized portion of its army with dragon glass weapons or valyrian steel. If every opposing faction can equip themselves with dragon glass then you've taken away a lot of the coolness (no pun intended) and scariness of the white walker faction but if you don't then every battle fought against a white walker army plays out like the attack on Hardhome. Without having multiple units that can kill the white walkers you'll be defeated by a near endless supply of wights.

I think that's going to hurt the game in the long run, provided it gets a decent player base in the first place. ASoIaF is a low fantasy setting wherein a couple factions have access to nigh unstoppable high fantasy monsters/magic and within the canon of the books there's really no way to balance that out.