Warhammer Underworlds - Embergard new edition. p.151

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**Kriswall**

Paradigm wrote:
They'll have to be careful if they go that route as so far (correct me if I'm wrong) we haven't seen any evidence of a points system or other balancing mechanics beyond all the starter crews being equal. The only way solo expansions would work is if they say 'This model must be exchanged for that model'.

So you could add a new Stormcast, but it'd have to be a straight swap for one of the others. If you brought in a proper Neromancer for the skelly faction he'd be a swap for the band's leader ect. Which could work, but it'd require some delicate balancing as each model would need to be balanced perfectly with the one it replaces.

Of course, nothing to say GW won't come out with a 'points' or equivalent system later on when there's more stuff, or even just a list saying 'you must pick 3 from this list of models, 2 from this list, 1 from list list of leaders' with each group being internally balanced.

I don't think we'll see the ability to swap out models, but I DO think there is potential to simply release a new Stormcast team that has entirely different models, while generally retaining the army flavor. The current team is 3x Liberators. I could see a new team consisting of 5x Vanguard-Hunters. There are a lot of options here. If the game really takes off, there are near limitless options for expansion boxes.

**Chopstick**

No way Vanguard Hunter will be more than 3 guy, 5 is Khorne team horde level. And also they will be the only team in the game that have range weapon (aside from Kasus the chained) which give them the massive advantage that they didn't need to charge to stay agressive like almost everyone else.

**Lord Kragan**

It is possible the vanguard dudes are maybe 3 hunters, or 2 hunters and a hound.

**akai**

At least for the upcoming new releases, I would like to see warbands from their entire range to fantasy/age of sigmar range to be represented. After the first four warbands, the next 4 warbands will be Chaos and Order again. I am interested to see if there are special rules or ways to play them with the original two.

**Kriswall**

Chopstick wrote:
No way Vanguard Hunter will be more than 3 guy, 5 is Khorne team horde level. And also they will be the only team in the game that have range weapon (aside from Kasus the chained) which give them the massive advantage that they didn't need to charge to stay agressive like almost everyone else.

I was just using the number as an example. Call it 2, 3, 4, whatever. I'm just saying that the game could very easily support multiple different Stormcast Eternals teams. I do agree that true ranged attacks would unbalance this game very quickly. That's why I don't think we'll ever see a 40k version. For many factions, ranged combat is the main damage dealer. Space Marines don't pacify planets based on the strength of their chainsword tech.

**Dryaktylus**

Kriswall wrote:
I do agree that true ranged attacks would unbalance this game very quickly. That's why I don't think we'll ever see a 40k version. For many factions, ranged combat is the main damage dealer. Space Marines don't pacify planets based on the strength of their chainsword tech.

While I doubt it too, a 40k version without shooting is entirely possible in the arenas of Commorragh (or an Ork pit - but the diversity would be pretty low).

**Smellingsalts**

A 40K style game would be super easy to do. All they have to do is to include extra dice that are designed for shooting, and then, just like the faces of the hand to hand dice handle different situations, so too could the shooting dice. The faces could be 1. Critical hit, 2. Hit, 3. Hit with supporting fire (like overwatch) with 1 supporter, 4. hit with 2 suporters. and 5, and 6 miss. Cards could modify. The board could have hexes colored to denote levels of cover. Soft cover would remove 1 shooting dice, Hard cover could remove two. That really makes taking cover important. There, done, bring on 40K Shadespire!

**Chopstick**

Kriswall wrote:
Chopstick wrote:
No way Vanguard Hunter will be more than 3 guy, 5 is Khorne team horde level. And also they will be the only team in the game that have range weapon (aside from Kasus the chained) which give them the massive advantage that they didn't need to charge to stay agressive like almost everyone else.

I was just using the number as an example. Call it 2, 3, 4, whatever. I'm just saying that the game could very easily support multiple different Stormcast Eternals teams. I do agree that true ranged attacks would unbalance this game very quickly. That's why I don't think we'll ever see a 40k version. For many factions, ranged combat is the main damage dealer. Space Marines don't pacify planets based on the strength of their chainsword tech.

They made Betrayal at Calth (technicly speaking it's 30k), they just don't think it as a seasonal standalone game in mind when they make it, and the specialist studio didn't exist back then. so it stopped as a one-off game with only loyalist - traitor.

**alleus**

Would kill for a 40k version of this. I like the Age of Sigmar world and aesthetic just fine, but 30/40k is where it's at for me anyway.

There would be shooting, of course, but there is a lot of melee in the 40k universe as well, so it would be pretty balanced I think.

**zamerion**

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/05/shadespire-with-3-4-players-oct-5gw-homepage-post-2/

**His Master's Voice**

Think I'd rather see GW embrace the 28mm Inquisitor over simply copy pasting an idea cross systems.

**Prometheum5**

His Master's Voice wrote:
Think I'd rather see GW embrace the 28mm Inquisitor over simply copy pasting an idea cross systems.

That would be a very different game, no? I'd be all for a Shadespire-level 40k game with very quick, tight rules that let me push a couple fancy figures around the table for an hour, tops.

**Chopstick**

I'm still waiting for that Fyreslayer reveal. hopefully they get rid of the horrible Key-ax that the Runefather use.

**His Master's Voice**

Prometheum5 wrote:

That would be a very different game, no?

That's kinda the point. There's little reason for GW to run two identical game systems, especially if they're serious about pushing the competitive aspect.

**fresus**

zamerion wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/05/shadespire-with-3-4-players-oct-5gw-homepage-post-2/

I wonder how balanced 3 or 4 player games will be.
Also having to buy two core sets sucks, unless they release a second core set with skellies + orks, but I highly doubt it.

**Souleater**

I am disappointed the each faction does not come with it's own half board piece.

**Kriswall**

fresus wrote:
zamerion wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/05/shadespire-with-3-4-players-oct-5gw-homepage-post-2/

I wonder how balanced 3 or 4 player games will be.
Also having to buy two core sets sucks, unless they release a second core set with skellies + orks, but I highly doubt it.

Hopefully, YOU aren't buying a second core set. One of the other 2-3 players should be buying that core set. If you've taken on the responsibility of buying everything for a group of gamers, you have to expect that it'll cost more than if you were only buying for one.

This is actually pretty common. Many FFG games that have a core set AND support 1-4 players require a second core set to support players 3 and 4. Lord of the Rings TCG and Arkham Horror TCG are two examples. X-Wing and Armada are designed for two players only.

**Neronoxx**

Chopstick wrote:
I'm still waiting for that Fyreslayer reveal. hopefully they get rid of the horrible Key-ax that the Runefather use.

Hey.
Kingdom Hearts is a fantastic series.

**akai**

I think I will make a generic board to allow multiplayer games of Underworlds.

While it may not be 40K theme, Aristeia! shares some common traits with Underworld (deck of cards, dices, hexagon grid combat) for those looking for more range/guns sci-fi squad combat.

**SweetLou**

Anyone know what to expect the price of these undead to be?

**Kriswall**

SweetLou wrote:
Anyone know what to expect the price of these undead to be?

I believe they've been more or less confirmed at 30 USD. Same for the Orks. We'll have to wait to see when the official release is announced, but with the core at 60 USD, 30 USD per expansion makes perfect sense.

**EnTyme**

Based on the leaked UK price, it's looking like somewhere between $25-$30 USD. Most people are leaning toward $30.

**Kriswall**

EnTyme wrote:
Based on the leaked UK price, it's looking like somewhere between $25-$30 USD. Most people are leaning toward $30.

Based on the leaked UK price AND how GW normally equates GBP and USD prices, it's almost definitely $30.

**Chopstick**

Meh, duplicate teams fighting eachother are boring. Not to mention it's weird and unfluffy.

**SnotlingPimpWagon**

Chopstick wrote:
Meh, duplicate teams fighting eachother are boring. Not to mention it's weird and unfluffy.

The unfluffy part is true only about Sigmarines

And duplicate teams seem to be pretty interesting in chess

**Albino Squirrel**

It's unfluffy for any of them, since they aren't factions, they are specific warbands with specific characters in them.

**Kriswall**

Chopstick wrote:
Meh, duplicate teams fighting eachother are boring. Not to mention it's weird and unfluffy.

Orks fighting Orks? That's called Tuesday. Super fluffy.
Khorne Bloodbound fighting Khorne Bloodbound? Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows. Super fluffy.
Skellingtons fighting Skellingtons? Forge the narrative. Opposing Necromancers sending undead minions to claim some objective. Fluffy with a tiny bit of imagination.
Eternals fighting Eternals? Less clear. They have free will. They presumably get mad at each other. Also... training exercise?

**Chopstick**

Kriswall wrote:
Chopstick wrote:
Meh, duplicate teams fighting eachother are boring. Not to mention it's weird and unfluffy.

Orks fighting Orks? That's called Tuesday. Super fluffy.
Khorne Bloodbound fighting Khorne Bloodbound? Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows. Super fluffy.
Skellingtons fighting Skellingtons? Forge the narrative. Opposing Necromancers sending undead minions to claim some objective. Fluffy with a tiny bit of imagination.
Eternals fighting Eternals? Less clear. They have free will. They presumably get mad at each other. Also... training exercise?

They are the same characters fighting each other. The only explanation for that is comic book multiverse. Which is still lame. You'll have Gorebeard attack Gorebeard, Blooded Saek kill Blooded Saek. Which even just saying it out loud is confusing as hell. Not to mention if the paint job are similar it will be a mess.

**Galas**

I have never seen a X-wing player having problems with Han Solo fighting agaisn't Han Solo.
Guys, this is not a "narrative" game. This is the first 100% competitive GW game. That kind of thing doesn't matter.

**SnotlingPimpWagon**

Yeah, seeing mirror matches in this game as an issue is odd to sa the least. You know , you can call your minis anything you want, and make up any fluff for them as well, right?
I really want to get myself those orks and convert them to hell.. Making sure, it`s still clear, what class they are of course.