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I'm not put off by the price I get that its not their IP so have to cover that cost on top of making molds etc.

I think £120 for the package is fine for the initial start and no doubt once that's done I'll gradually add to it.

One friends doing minute men another is looking forward to enclave and I'm doing bos.

 Nostromodamus wrote:

Vorian wrote:

angel of death 007 wrote:
Living in the US I think the base game is a decent buy in. Looking at the cost of the add on's left me scratching my head. Typically I go all in but the all in price is way to extreme for me. Further more without the US distributors in yet I wouldn't want to imagine what shipping would cost.

Ordering the base game and paying probably a crazy amount for shipping with no real benefit to preorder the base game. I will wait til some of the retail stores start posting their pre orders before placing mine.

I'm still puzzled what you're comparing it to to think the expansion sets are expensive.

If something costs more than you're willing to pay, you can think it too expensive without requiring a comparison.

Sure, but he said typically he goes all in.

What is he going all in on that isn't as expensive as this?

 Geifer wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:
None of the Fallout 3/4 factions really interest me, beside maybe the Minutemen if they flesh them out.

If they put out some New Vegas factions I'll throw down cash in a heartbeat. I guess it's better this way, since it gives me time to observe and see if the game is a success or not, specifically in the local scene.

Maybe you should make your own Fallout. With Blackjack and hookers!

While I'm happy with the East Coast setting starting things off, there is some cross compatibility. Super Mutants, critters, civilians and Minutemen, robots are all good for New Vegas and further west. It's why I had hoped Raiders would be among the initial release. They're both generic enough for the entire US and another staple of Fallout.

I mean, I expected East Coast to be the kick-off point just because it's the most well known half of the franchise and there's probably those awkward licensing issues with Obsidian. It's just that I find the East Coast factions dull as dishwater. I suppose the BoS aren't bad, but everybody and their mum will be playing those.

I like the Minutemen just because they're the Every Man, despite people's dislike of 'em due to the settlement memes. I hope we see more releases for them; power armour (since you can paint it in their colours), different sculpts of the standard trooper, etc. Although what I really want to see is the NCR.

I hope it won't be long to get a T-45 suit to rock alongside my Minutemen.

 Arbitrator wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:
None of the Fallout 3/4 factions really interest me, beside maybe the Minutemen if they flesh them out.

If they put out some New Vegas factions I'll throw down cash in a heartbeat. I guess it's better this way, since it gives me time to observe and see if the game is a success or not, specifically in the local scene.

Maybe you should make your own Fallout. With Blackjack and hookers!

While I'm happy with the East Coast setting starting things off, there is some cross compatibility. Super Mutants, critters, civilians and Minutemen, robots are all good for New Vegas and further west. It's why I had hoped Raiders would be among the initial release. They're both generic enough for the entire US and another staple of Fallout.

I mean, I expected East Coast to be the kick-off point just because it's the most well known half of the franchise and there's probably those awkward licensing issues with Obsidian. It's just that I find the East Coast factions dull as dishwater. I suppose the BoS aren't bad, but everybody and their mum will be playing those.

I like the Minutemen just because they're the Every Man, despite people's dislike of 'em due to the settlement memes. I hope we see more releases for them; power armour (since you can paint it in their colours), different sculpts of the standard trooper, etc. Although what I really want to see is the NCR.

While I don't agree I can certainly understand the point. Not that I find the East Coast factions particularly interesting - the only faction I'm interested in is me - but since I'm no good with modding tools for the video games, to me a tabletop game with all the announced features, solo play, coop play, campaigns and it looks like full AI support (and I believe there was mention of vehicle rules down the line?), is a great way of exploring Fallout beyond the boundaries of the video game. It doesn't have to be the Mojave or the Commonwealth or the Capital Wasteland. May not be canon, but it's essentially all the freedom that I like about RPGs packed in a format I can work with.

Yeah, Brotherhood will certainly be a big seller. At least it wouldn't surprise me. It's the Space Marine formula at work, really. It's why I assume that the canonical ending of Fallout 4 will be the BoS ending, at least until Bethesda says otherwise. Just too many fans of the Brotherhood around to go any other way.

I can state for myself that I don't dislike the Minutemen because of any memes. It's a well nurtured hatred cultivated entirely through playing the game and seeing a bunch of hicks with the most questionable gun design ever trying to take on Super Mutants and Raiders with automatic weapons. Yeah...

While New Vegas introduced a canonical outfit for the NCR, I'm not sure if you couldn't just go back to Fallout 2 and do NCR troops with combat armor. BoS models without the badge and painted to look the part should give you something to work with. I certainly intend to repurpose many a BoS model until other models are released.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I hope it won't be long to get a T-45 suit to rock alongside my Minutemen.

Me too. The sooner we get more power armor variants, the better. Although I may be in luck because the Enclave seems to be a priority for wave 2.

Vorian wrote:

angel of death 007 wrote:
Living in the US I think the base game is a decent buy in. Looking at the cost of the add on's left me scratching my head. Typically I go all in but the all in price is way to extreme for me. Further more without the US distributors in yet I wouldn't want to imagine what shipping would cost.

Ordering the base game and paying probably a crazy amount for shipping with no real benefit to preorder the base game. I will wait til some of the retail stores start posting their pre orders before placing mine.

I'm still puzzled what you're comparing it to to think the expansion sets are expensive.

125 pounds before shipping is almost $165 US dollars for 12 PVC models and 8 resin ones. If you do go this route you save some money but are still paying the about $85 USD for 8 models. Again not too bad

The problem will be shipping, same as is always the case with Forgeworld. With there being a game box I would estimate the cost to be between $20-30 to ship to FL.

If i wait for a US vendor to carry it most offer around 20% off and free shipping if you spend a certain amount. So what am I really getting by preordering?

The all in price is $929 that is without shipping. Most all in prices range around the $300 mark for similiar style games. That is a HUGE difference. 300 I can justify spending to get everything for something I really like, which I love Fallout but almost a grand is more then double what I have ever spent on any initial buyin that I didn't already own their product. So yes I would consider almost a grand to be extreme as there is no way to justify it considering it was more then I paid for my first vehicle.

What did I go all in on or almost all in on that wasn't more expensive then this.... lets see in order
-Fire and Ice @ $274
-Relic knights 2nd edition @ $390
-Vanguard of War @ $250
-Mythic Battles Pantheon @ $196
-The Edge: Dawnfall @ 150 pounds
-Vampire Hunters@ $261
-Walking Dead No Sanctuary @ $200ish
-Walking Dead All Out War @ $247
-Knight Models Batman Miniatures Game 2nd edition (preorders) Rules were free and all in on preorders was $157.

So there are several recent examples. Several of them come with boards, terrain and very impressive models. Most the model count is easily 3-4 times the amount offered here for the same price. Yes I love Fallout and will probably get the base game. Yes I would like to go all in. No I will not spend a grand to do so. Simple.

Well, it's not really fair to compare PVC board game kickstarters with a lot of repeats to a resin skirmish game release to retail.

The only one I've actually ever bought from the list are knight models, which I'm pretty sure are more expensive than Fallout, smaller and in an inferior material (I actually like the Batman line!).

Obviously buying large amounts of resin miniatures, a significant number of which are larger than human sized, is going to be pricey, but you don't need anywhere near that to play

Going off the gameplay video we've seen, I reckon 10-12 human models is plenty for a good sized game. Remember that this is a skirmish game at its core.

That seems about right for something like raiders, with less for BoS and super mutants.

Yeah, I should have said settlers or other folks who basically run around naked.

Wasteland Warfare is supposed to have some scalability (with 3-30 models being a number officially thrown around, but I, not being privy to Modiphius's secrets, can't tell how the high and low ends compare), but I don't think anyone needs to worry about not starting out with enough models in the same way as, say, a GW start collecting box might be a good start in isolation but usually still one or two units below what is generally played. Fallout doesn't have an established player base yet that would dictate an established minimum game size. There's no reason to err on the high side of model count other than that you like and want the models.

It's a lot to throw down on a preorder when we haven't seen:

Most of the sculpts
Anything painted
Rules document
Finished cards
Finished tokens

We have no idea how the AI system or solo play works. Or list building. Is what we get in these kits even enough to play a game?

Modiphius has been awesome with communicating to customers, and I'm sure they will eventually deliver a great product, but this preorder seems a bit premature is asking for a lot of blind faith

WUWU wrote:
but this preorder seems a bit premature is asking for a lot of blind faith

I agree completely. While the game is looking solid, it looks very much like a WIP at this point - maybe this is the effect of the KS model becoming so popular? Even companies not using KS feel like they can lean hard on customers' good faith.

 Manchu wrote:

WUWU wrote:
but this preorder seems a bit premature is asking for a lot of blind faith

I agree completely. While the game is looking solid, it looks very much like a WIP at this point - maybe this is the effect of the KS model becoming so popular? Even companies not using KS feel like they can lean hard on customers' good faith.

I assume it has more to do with expanding into the miniatures game market (so there's a measure of inexperience) and having to juggle their own schedule with that of the model manufacturer and throwing Bethesda's approval process into the mix for good measure.

I do think Modiphius suffers from something that happens with many kickstarters. They have a plan and honestly communicate it, but the plan is a bit on the best case side and doesn't account for obstacles along the way for fear of scaring away customers with, at the time, unfounded ifs and buts.Perhaps the plan was to have a preorder in August with a general release in November and they honestly believed they could make it.

New video is up... i have mixed feelings. They haven't figured out campaign mode quite yet, not sure how many miniatures are in the starter box.

What's the problem? Don't order until you've seen what you want to see.

Vorian wrote:
What's the problem?

See above.

Vorian wrote:
Don't order until you've seen what you want to see.

Starting to think I will wait for retail. Summer or Fall 2018?

I can't see where the problem is though. What are you missing out on from not prordering 6 months early and waiting to see all the things you want to see?

They said March for retail. Summer is when the core rule book will be released. So I'm assuming quick play guide in the starter box. I have mix feelings on the success of the game or it's launch, it feels pretty bumpy. I wonder if star trek was and is this bad.

Vorian wrote:
I can't see where the problem is though. What are you missing out on from not prordering 6 months early and waiting to see all the things you want to see?

Not sure what you are looking for here - I'm not suggesting I will "miss out" on anything (although there may be some preorder exclusive models). Just discussing the pre-order launch on a web forum meant for discussion.

 Maddok_Death wrote:
I wonder if star trek was and is this bad.

The Trek stuff is at retail pre-order stage and I still have no idea how the mini component of the game works. No pics of the figs (apparently they are coming soon) or info about the tiles.

 Maddok_Death wrote:
They said March for retail.

Eh, might want to tack on some time if you are planning on it.

 Manchu wrote:

WUWU wrote:
but this preorder seems a bit premature is asking for a lot of blind faith

I agree completely. While the game is looking solid, it looks very much like a WIP at this point - maybe this is the effect of the KS model becoming so popular? Even companies not using KS feel like they can lean hard on customers' good faith.

Agreed!

I need more here before I'd feel comfortable putting down a significant amount of pre-order money.

So I'm OK with waiting and being further down the line in terms of when it ships to me from the pre-order queue.

You're saying they're leaning on customer's good faith. I'm just asking how.

If they were trying to coerce you in to ordering based off only renders and half explanations then fair enough. If there were massive discounts that were going to run out before they showed anything then I could see that.

I'll be waiting until I see all the stuff fleshed out over the next few months before deciding what I want.

As far as I know the Star Trek miniatures are just to represent characters during combat positions in the RPG and do not have seperate skirmish rules. I have seen the quality of the pvc preview models (have a Kirk at home) and that was pretty good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

WUWU wrote:
It's a lot to throw down on a preorder when we haven't seen:

Most of the sculpts
Anything painted
Rules document
Finished cards
Finished tokens

We have no idea how the AI system or solo play works. Or list building. Is what we get in these kits even enough to play a game?

Modiphius has been awesome with communicating to customers, and I'm sure they will eventually deliver a great product, but this preorder seems a bit premature is asking for a lot of blind faith

There are digital close ups of most of the sculpts over on the official page and group shots on the store page. Painted physical models should be received within the next week or two (some are with a member of the Modiphus team and some models are with the studio painter).

I don't think we will see any draft rules prior to release, very few companies do this outside of Kickstarter (Knight models is the main exception I can think of).

The final card designs are currently waiting approval and will be revealed as soon as possible.

The AI system will be previewed in a video very shortly, sounds like they are just waiting on the card design approval and painted models first.

Whilst some more information / resin close ups would be nice, the preorder period does run until next February so there is no urgent need to jump onto a pre-order until more details are released. The only thing I think you will need to wait a lon time for are PVC close ups as they have only just started the tooling process.

Vorian wrote:
You're saying they're leaning on customer's good faith. I'm just asking how.

By taking pre-orders with so much work left to go, including crucial marketing issues like even showing the finished product.

Vorian wrote:
You're saying they're leaning on customer's good faith. I'm just asking how.

If they were trying to coerce you in to ordering based off only renders and half explanations then fair enough. If there were massive discounts that were going to run out before they showed anything then I could see that.

I'll be waiting until I see all the stuff fleshed out over the next few months before deciding what I want.

A preorder to the producer of a game is essentially an interest free loan with payment in the form of product. This money is going to cover overhead and production costs. It isn't entirely different than Kickstarter, and much different than preordering something from your FLGS.

The amounts they are asking for upfront seem high considering what we know about the game at this point. That's all. It's not meant as disrespect on the product or company at all. I'm very excited for this game... but I'm going to wait.

To tide you over while you wait for Fallout shots, here are some Star trek figures for comparison. They are made by the same factory we use (CMA, who worked on the Dropzone line).

Note, I only glued these together and did very minimal clean up, so there is still some moldlines and flash, so you get an idea of pretty much what the minis look like out of the box, rather than fully cleaned up and ready to paint, so you can see what a raw mini looks like.

The Fallout figures are pretty much the same size/scale, so this gives a good initial point to assess the minis.

Aeneades wrote:

I don't think we will see any draft rules prior to release, very few companies do this outside of Kickstarter (Knight models is the main exception I can think of).

Tons and tons of companies release their rules for free. I don't necessarily need beta drafts, but I'd hope that their core system is finalized before cards are printed and product starts shipping.

WUWU wrote:

Vorian wrote:
You're saying they're leaning on customer's good faith. I'm just asking how.

If they were trying to coerce you in to ordering based off only renders and half explanations then fair enough. If there were massive discounts that were going to run out before they showed anything then I could see that.

I'll be waiting until I see all the stuff fleshed out over the next few months before deciding what I want.

A preorder to the producer of a game is essentially an interest free loan with payment in the form of product. This money is going to cover overhead and production costs. It isn't entirely different than Kickstarter, and much different than preordering something from your FLGS.

The amounts they are asking for upfront seem high considering what we know about the game at this point. That's all. It's not meant as disrespect on the product or company at all. I'm very excited for this game... but I'm going to wait.

But again, They aren't forcing you to do it. If people want to order this early based on what they've seen that's up to them. I don't understand why people are ordering this early either, I'm just saying Modiphius are hardly doing something wrong by it

Ooh, can't wait for my Klingons

Is that PVC or resin?

Vorian wrote:

WUWU wrote:

Vorian wrote:
You're saying they're leaning on customer's good faith. I'm just asking how.

If they were trying to coerce you in to ordering based off only renders and half explanations then fair enough. If there were massive discounts that were going to run out before they showed anything then I could see that.

I'll be waiting until I see all the stuff fleshed out over the next few months before deciding what I want.

A preorder to the producer of a game is essentially an interest free loan with payment in the form of product. This money is going to cover overhead and production costs. It isn't entirely different than Kickstarter, and much different than preordering something from your FLGS.

The amounts they are asking for upfront seem high considering what we know about the game at this point. That's all. It's not meant as disrespect on the product or company at all. I'm very excited for this game... but I'm going to wait.

But again, They aren't forcing you to do it. If people want to order this early based on what they've seen that's up to them. I don't understand why people are ordering this early either, I'm just saying Modiphius are hardly doing something wrong by it

Ooh, can't wait for my Klingons

Someone asked why people thought the price was too high. My response was, because I haven't seen enough from the game yet.

I'm not sure what you are debating here

 Desubot wrote:
Is that PVC or resin?

Resin, we don't have any PVC in house yet, and the Fallout starter will be our first game that uses the material.