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WUWU wrote:
Someone asked why people thought the price was too high. My response was, because I haven't seen enough from the game yet.

I'm not sure what you are debating here

That is fairly accurate. With a Kickstarter, which many compare pre-orders to these days, we would actually have a lot larger wealth of information. We have a couple disjointed videos of gameplay, background information and renders. Now if this was an existing game, already out and people had experienced no one would probably blink an eye at it. But because it is a pre-order as a new game with barely any information it seems like a lot. I know it really isn't if you break down the $$ per model count. The problem is without information no one has an idea of how the factions play, what they will need for the balanced game (do they need all the faction), are duplicates for some models needed/allowed, as well as other things.

So what we have is a pre-order relying on a fanbase to just want the models. That said, I did pick up a faction + starter set and I would have picked up more if I knew more about it, but lack of that just has me waiting for retail at this point. It is hard to get anyone else to jump in on something who just don't like miniatures and painting them or collecting them without more information.

The Klingons are looking pretty cool!

They'd look better with Borg implants, but eh, I guess they'll do.

WUWU wrote:


I'm not sure what you are debating here

Well this is getting somewhat pointless. People were talking as if Modiphius putting it up this early was in some way a bad thing.

But, yeah, I'm bored of this now

It definitely is a long way from ideal. All the talk about price per mini, for example, isn't very fair but without seeing the whole thing in solid condition, it's not hard to see why there was a good deal of sticker shock. You post some professional pics with professionally painted minis with really nice terrain and all the cool components, as opposed to stand in stuff, and the price is going to seem a lot better.

With RPGs, you just post a cover image and some blurb about content and that is usually enough for a supplemental product. With minis, it's a very different set of optics.

The resin examples/samples for the Star Trek minis look good, but I've still quite wary of those same miniatures in "PVC".

 Geifer wrote:
Going off the gameplay video we've seen, I reckon 10-12 human models is plenty for a good sized game. Remember that this is a skirmish game at its core.

The video demonstration earlier mentioned that 5 or so BoS soldiers would be equivalent of about 16 Raiders.

So obviously the power of each unit much vary quite dramatically!

There were certainly enough people in this very thread champing at the bit to preorder

until the prices dropped and it became clear that it wasn't going to be crazy cheap

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
There were certainly enough people in this very thread champing at the bit to preorder

until the prices dropped and it became clear that it wasn't going to be crazy cheap

I don't know if "crazy cheap" was anyone's expectation, but without seeing the actual models, and with no real incentive to pre-order (the Nuka Girl figure is nice, but there will be other ways to get her so why part with money now?) I think people are wisely holding off until more is shown to them.

The prices were certainly a let down. As were the lack of perks for pre-ordering. Nevermind the lack of exclusive or alternate figures, or just extra materials for pre-ordering, the "early" fulfillment time isn't even that much of a perk. If pre-orders start shipping in February, with retail hitting in March, there is a chance that a US customer's order could arrive after retail hits. If you are far back in the pre-order line, and account for the extra time UK to US shipping takes, you might not even get your figures early.

For me personally, there just isn't any value in pre-ordering. I'd rather wait for retail and the online discounts.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
There were certainly enough people in this very thread champing at the bit to preorder

until the prices dropped and it became clear that it wasn't going to be crazy cheap

Dunno some maybe. at least for my self it was mostly the PVC starter which got fixed but then i already preordered so im fethed.

Cancel your pre-order and, if you want, place another one.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
There were certainly enough people in this very thread champing at the bit to preorder

until the prices dropped and it became clear that it wasn't going to be crazy cheap

I don't know if "crazy cheap" was anyone's expectation, but without seeing the actual models, and with no real incentive to pre-order (the Nuka Girl figure is nice, but there will be other ways to get her so why part with money now?) I think people are wisely holding off until more is shown to them.

The prices were certainly a let down. As were the lack of perks for pre-ordering. Nevermind the lack of exclusive or alternate figures, or just extra materials for pre-ordering, the "early" fulfillment time isn't even that much of a perk. If pre-orders start shipping in February, with retail hitting in March, there is a chance that a US customer's order could arrive after retail hits. If you are far back in the pre-order line, and account for the extra time UK to US shipping takes, you might not even get your figures early.

For me personally, there just isn't any value in pre-ordering. I'd rather wait for retail and the online discounts.

Same here.

Of course there's still time - quite a bit of it! - for Modiphius to make it more attractive and /or clear.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
There were certainly enough people in this very thread champing at the bit to preorder

until the prices dropped and it became clear that it wasn't going to be crazy cheap

I don't know if "crazy cheap" was anyone's expectation, but without seeing the actual models, and with no real incentive to pre-order (the Nuka Girl figure is nice, but there will be other ways to get her so why part with money now?) I think people are wisely holding off until more is shown to them.

The prices were certainly a let down. As were the lack of perks for pre-ordering. Nevermind the lack of exclusive or alternate figures, or just extra materials for pre-ordering, the "early" fulfillment time isn't even that much of a perk. If pre-orders start shipping in February, with retail hitting in March, there is a chance that a US customer's order could arrive after retail hits. If you are far back in the pre-order line, and account for the extra time UK to US shipping takes, you might not even get your figures early.

For me personally, there just isn't any value in pre-ordering. I'd rather wait for retail and the online discounts.

I think that sums it up nicely and I will second that. I just hope they are not looking at preorders as a judgement of possible success. Honestly I think if they were looking for money to help the project along from the get go, which might not be an issue but Kickstarter would have been the better option. By avoiding Kickstarter they save a lot more on fees and on freebees but also lose a lot of the preorder crowd and the financial support it gathers.

I think the price is fairly high but not absurd, however, I also think there is no real benefit being offered in the line of discount to preorder which is where a lot of other companies get their upfront funding for tooling and to finish out their product without having to keep all the financial burden. It is a choice. I am just hoping they have the financial planning to support a project like this as it is a great idea, I wouldn't want to see it fail to bad execution or problems during pre production which the revenue might be able to help them transition to a final product which we all could enjoy.

In a Kickstarter environment I could see this easily hitting the $500k mark given the success of Fallout and miniature board games/ skirmish games in general. Benefits there are a larger customer base and the ablility to produce in bulk and get the discounts for doing so. In a preorder phase if they hit 10-15% of that mark I would say would be a tad optimistic at this point. Down the road there could easily be a shift but the impulse backers are not going to be there on this project. Again only my personal opinion. I think having a larger customer base for any new game especially one that plans on doing expansions is key and something that could potential hurt this project as a whole.

hey gang here's some answers and stuff!

Desubot wrote:@modiphius

Though too late as i already checked out
would it be possible to do an upcharge on the starter set and replace the pvc for resin?
my assumptions is no as its probably a boxed set.

Yes just email lloyd@modiphius.com and he'll look after you

Manchu wrote:Not really put off by the prices TBH. Wish I could spare the money to just go ahead all in. Biggest thing holding me back from pre-ordering at this point is lack of pics of figs.

They've started coming and there will be more as the painted figures start arriving

Manchu wrote:Jon - I appreciate your position, I have caught glimpses here and there of the chaotic realities you're facing working for publishers. (Mini gaming especially is a small, small world.) That's actually why I speculated about Modiphius as an organization not fully appreciating how much minis gamers have come to loathe renders in the last five or so years of Kickstarter. The responses on DakkaDakka and other sites might be usefully quoted in a "how can we improve" memo before the ball gets rolling on a John Carter pre-order (my understanding is, that one will also involve minis). Definitely keep in mind that everyone here is grateful for your engagement.

I got Jon in as a champion of wargaming in the office - we're all a mix of board and RPG as well as miniatures gamers. I grew up a wargamer playing 15mm napoleonics and English Civil War, Plastic ACW, 1/72 plastic ww2, then 25mm fantasy and onwards. As we moved more in to miniatures I knew we needed someone else who lived and breathed miniatures. I'm currently playing 10mm ancients (Imperial era Roman using the Mortem et Gloriam rules and trying Mayhem for a fantasy switch) so I'm with you on getting more info out there. We do with RPG's actually - typically we aim to get a free Quickstarter 32 page book out to fans during the kickstarter. With Fallout it's lot more complex with approvals and development. A wargame has more moving parts in many ways but we're getting there. The rules will be free to download as a book once they're approved and this will be before Christmas so those of you on the fence can hang out and check it out and by then we'll have plenty of awesome scenic pics and close us of production minis.

MajorWesJanson wrote:Is there a way to upgrade the Vault Dweller Bundle to include the resin version of the starter instead of the pvc one?

Basically buying the resin upgrade set. Offering alternatives of all the bundles with resin versions would be a logistics headache at this stage and make the pre-order much more complex than it is already. It's a huge effort to offer the whole of the first wave as a pre-order and ensure we can produce everything on time so I don't want to make that more complex than needed.

Tannhauser42 wrote:I hope it won't be long to get a T-45 suit to rock alongside my Minutemen.

Yep they're being sculpted at the moment, along with the T-51 and the X-01 is already done... it's a 3rd option for the Sole Survivor with both male and female heads or just a helmet if you want it for your own force.

WUWU wrote:It's a lot to throw down on a preorder when we haven't seen:

Most of the sculpts
Anything painted
Rules document
Finished cards
Finished tokens

We have no idea how the AI system or solo play works. Or list building. Is what we get in these kits even enough to play a game?

Modiphius has been awesome with communicating to customers, and I'm sure they will eventually deliver a great product, but this preorder seems a bit premature is asking for a lot of blind faith

We're not in a rush for you to order and we realise many of you need to see a lot more, I would as well. It's why we've given such a long time for the pre-order - those who know trust us get to get their stuff first and those who need more info can wait and still get the same deals with just a little more wait. There's plenty coming in fact - lots of stuff is being approved in the background so we should have card designs to show off this week, more painted minis and scenic shots. Pretty soon we'll have the core box and more resin production minis from the factory. The chinese factory has started the process of setting up the minis for tooling, but that will likely take a month or so before they're signed off.

Maddok_Death wrote:They said March for retail. Summer is when the core rule book will be released. So I'm assuming quick play guide in the starter box. I have mix feelings on the success of the game or it's launch, it feels pretty bumpy. I wonder if star trek was and is this bad.

Actually the rulebook in the core box is the full rules covering everything you need. The deluxe rulebook will have some expanded rules, the contents of the campaign box rules coming in the summer and loads and loads of great photos, painting guides, army building advice and so on.

Star Trek is already shipping and getting great reviews, the team did a fantastic job on the minis and they're in constant production to keep up with the demand which is fantastic. We're releasing a free rule set called Red Alert that you'll be able to download to use with the minis. The range hits the stores this coming week

WUWU wrote:

Aeneades wrote:

I don't think we will see any draft rules prior to release, very few companies do this outside of Kickstarter (Knight models is the main exception I can think of).

Tons and tons of companies release their rules for free. I don't necessarily need beta drafts, but I'd hope that their core system is finalized before cards are printed and product starts shipping.

We will be releasing the full laid out rules before retail release in pdf. The core system is already finalised and currently being edited. The AI and settlement section is the final bit being tweaked before editing as well.

Desubot wrote:Is that PVC or resin?

The Star Trek minis are in resin.

DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
There were certainly enough people in this very thread champing at the bit to preorder

until the prices dropped and it became clear that it wasn't going to be crazy cheap

I don't know if "crazy cheap" was anyone's expectation, but without seeing the actual models, and with no real incentive to pre-order (the Nuka Girl figure is nice, but there will be other ways to get her so why part with money now?) I think people are wisely holding off until more is shown to them.

The prices were certainly a let down. As were the lack of perks for pre-ordering. Nevermind the lack of exclusive or alternate figures, or just extra materials for pre-ordering, the "early" fulfillment time isn't even that much of a perk. If pre-orders start shipping in February, with retail hitting in March, there is a chance that a US customer's order could arrive after retail hits. If you are far back in the pre-order line, and account for the extra time UK to US shipping takes, you might not even get your figures early.

For me personally, there just isn't any value in pre-ordering. I'd rather wait for retail and the online discounts.

Pre-orders will ship first but remember we're shipping in waves - if you order late you'll be shipped at the same time or even later than retail gets their first wave stock. We can only produce so much at the same time. The PVC starter set will ship directly to the US and Europe from China and will come out in March, the resin core sets will hit retailers in April so a good chunk of pre-order customers will get their orders before retailers see the wave 1 items arrive (especially as we're only releasing certain items each month - if a retailer takes part in the pre-order they'll be able to order in everything in the retail pre-order but retailers joining at launch will only get March, then April, then May releases as they come out.

So there is a priority in the pre-order and the bundles which we're offering (which we can't offer to retailers - that will be down to them what discounts to offer). I'm sure retailers will provide some great options though and we want to encourage people to order through their stores too as it is key to keeping the game alive. We're now working out the pre-order offer for retailers and distributors so it's launched clearly for everyone.

angel of death 007 wrote:
In a Kickstarter environment I could see this easily hitting the $500k mark given the success of Fallout and miniature board games/ skirmish games in general. Benefits there are a larger customer base and the ablility to produce in bulk and get the discounts for doing so. In a preorder phase if they hit 10-15% of that mark I would say would be a tad optimistic at this point. Down the road there could easily be a shift but the impulse backers are not going to be there on this project. Again only my personal opinion. I think having a larger customer base for any new game especially one that plans on doing expansions is key and something that could potential hurt this project as a whole.

Without giving away numbers let's just say the demand is 'well and truly there' after the first few days - and there's a steady sign up as we reveal more pics etc. I suspect we'll lock down the first wave of shipments in the coming week which is faster than I'd thought. This will help us plan production better with the factory to keep ahead of the demand. Our planning is also now focused on making sure we have a clear and attractive pre-order for retailers to take part in - we want people who like to support their local store to feel like they can get cool stuff too.

Will the T-45, 51 and X-01s be coming with the first wave, or second now?

 modiphius wrote:

DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
There were certainly enough people in this very thread champing at the bit to preorder

until the prices dropped and it became clear that it wasn't going to be crazy cheap

I don't know if "crazy cheap" was anyone's expectation, but without seeing the actual models, and with no real incentive to pre-order (the Nuka Girl figure is nice, but there will be other ways to get her so why part with money now?) I think people are wisely holding off until more is shown to them.

The prices were certainly a let down. As were the lack of perks for pre-ordering. Nevermind the lack of exclusive or alternate figures, or just extra materials for pre-ordering, the "early" fulfillment time isn't even that much of a perk. If pre-orders start shipping in February, with retail hitting in March, there is a chance that a US customer's order could arrive after retail hits. If you are far back in the pre-order line, and account for the extra time UK to US shipping takes, you might not even get your figures early.

For me personally, there just isn't any value in pre-ordering. I'd rather wait for retail and the online discounts.

Pre-orders will ship first but remember we're shipping in waves - if you order late you'll be shipped at the same time or even later than retail gets their first wave stock. We can only produce so much at the same time.

Which is why I stated that there isn't any value in pre-ordering. However, I am confused by your last statement. If you are taking pre-orders for 5 months, how are you not able to produce enough product to satisfy those pre-orders? Stating that late pre-orders will potentially ship after retail shipments begin makes pre-ordering useless. Again, what is the point of pre-ordering from a customer's perspective, especially a non-EU customer? Is it only to get pre-order exclusive bundles? That is kinda disappointing. You are taking interest free loans from people and offering virtually nothing in return. If you can't ensure that pre-orders ship before retail, why not stop taking pre-orders at a certain point to guarantee those orders received prior to that date are fulfilled before retail releases ship?

These statements seem contradictory to me:

 modiphius wrote:
So there is a priority in the pre-order and the bundles which we're offering (which we can't offer to retailers - that will be down to them what discounts to offer). I'm sure retailers will provide some great options though and we want to encourage people to order through their stores too as it is key to keeping the game alive. We're now working out the pre-order offer for retailers and distributors so it's launched clearly for everyone.

 modiphius wrote:
Without giving away numbers let's just say the demand is 'well and truly there' after the first few days - and there's a steady sign up as we reveal more pics etc. I suspect we'll lock down the first wave of shipments in the coming week which is faster than I'd thought. This will help us plan production better with the factory to keep ahead of the demand. Our planning is also now focused on making sure we have a clear and attractive pre-order for retailers to take part in - we want people who like to support their local store to feel like they can get cool stuff too.

If Modiphius value retailers, why are they making cheaper bundles that retailers can't sell and are only exclusive to your webstore? If Modiphius value retailers, why are you leaning so heavily on the pre-order method to cut retailers out of the chain? I mean, 5 months is a long time to run a pre-order, especially when that pre-order is designed to offer things retailers can't, presumably to drive business to your direct sales.

This really feels like all of the trappings of a Kickstarter without using the actual Kickstarter platform. Modiphius is showing an unfinished product, asking for money with only promises and renders to show off and making business decisions in an ad-hoc manner (you guys haven't figured out a pre-order system for retailers? This late in the process? Really?).

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the waves, and everything involved with the pre-order, but from the information shared so far this really appears to be a messy process that should have had some additional time devoted to ironing out the kinks.

Hand cast resin is hand cast so dependant on how many trained people the workshop that Modiphius is working with can put on the production line at maximum capacity

if preorders go well, and retail interest is high they could be in a position where demand outstrips supply

the caster might consider taking on extra staff if demand is strong but might not find it convenient to do so

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Hand cast resin is hand cast so dependant on how many trained people the workshop that Modiphius is working with can put on the production line at maximum capacity

if preorders go well, and retail interest is high they could be in a position where demand outstrips supply

the caster might consider taking on extra staff if demand is strong but might not find it convenient to do so

That is one possibility. So, assuming that is the case, if the casting output is limited, why run the pre-order right up to the month before retail release? Why not cap pre-orders at a certain point to allow for retail production? Unless retail really isn't as much of a priority as it is being made out to be, you know, so more sales can stay direct order.

Since they still haven't figured out what sort of pre-order deals they are offering retailers, it is hard for me to not arrive at the conclusion this pre-order is a Kickstarter-lite operation that will prioritize Modiphius' customers over retail customers, and that retail was never really a priority in the first place.

Vorian wrote:Will the T-45, 51 and X-01s be coming with the first wave, or second now?

In the second wave. There will be a set of power armour in various poses including T-45 and 51's. There will also be the X-01 set with optional sole survivor heads.

DarkTraveler777 wrote:

Which is why I stated that there isn't any value in pre-ordering. However, I am confused by your last statement. If you are taking pre-orders for 5 months, how are you not able to produce enough product to satisfy those pre-orders? Stating that late pre-orders will potentially ship after retail shipments begin makes pre-ordering useless. Again, what is the point of pre-ordering from a customer's perspective, especially a non-EU customer? Is it only to get pre-order exclusive bundles? That is kinda disappointing. You are taking interest free loans from people and offering virtually nothing in return. If you can't ensure that pre-orders ship before retail, why not stop taking pre-orders at a certain point to guarantee those orders received prior to that date are fulfilled before retail releases ship?

These statements seem contradictory to me:

 modiphius wrote:
So there is a priority in the pre-order and the bundles which we're offering (which we can't offer to retailers - that will be down to them what discounts to offer). I'm sure retailers will provide some great options though and we want to encourage people to order through their stores too as it is key to keeping the game alive. We're now working out the pre-order offer for retailers and distributors so it's launched clearly for everyone.

 modiphius wrote:
Without giving away numbers let's just say the demand is 'well and truly there' after the first few days - and there's a steady sign up as we reveal more pics etc. I suspect we'll lock down the first wave of shipments in the coming week which is faster than I'd thought. This will help us plan production better with the factory to keep ahead of the demand. Our planning is also now focused on making sure we have a clear and attractive pre-order for retailers to take part in - we want people who like to support their local store to feel like they can get cool stuff too.

If Modiphius value retailers, why are they making cheaper bundles that retailers can't sell and are only exclusive to your webstore? If Modiphius value retailers, why are you leaning so heavily on the pre-order method to cut retailers out of the chain? I mean, 5 months is a long time to run a pre-order, especially when that pre-order is designed to offer things retailers can't, presumably to drive business to your direct sales.

This really feels like all of the trappings of a Kickstarter without using the actual Kickstarter platform. Modiphius is showing an unfinished product, asking for money with only promises and renders to show off and making business decisions in an ad-hoc manner (you guys haven't figured out a pre-order system for retailers? This late in the process? Really?).

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the waves, and everything involved with the pre-order, but from the information shared so far this really appears to be a messy process that should have had some additional time devoted to ironing out the kinks.

- We are building up capacity in the factory to meet demand which is why the 5 month lead time gives them enough time to ramp up. At some point we switch from pre-order production to 'stock' production which will service both retail pre-orders and web pre-orders. After that we start allocating stock for retail orders that come in launch week onwards. Getting factory production right is a huge task and if we did only a short pre-order we'd quite possibly get the forecasts wrong in some cases causing disappointment and problems with supply. With such a large range of product it's vital to get pre-order numbers. Typically distributors will not give us pre-order quantities until the week we release - they just won't commit to that, so by running a major pre-order ourselves we can gauge the demand for each pack and plan accordingly.

We'll be making enough stock in advance of launch to cope with all pre-orders - retailers included. However there will be cut off dates for both online and retail pre-orders after which we can't guarantee stock will be delivered in March, but they will still get the pre-order bonuses

"What's the point in pre-ordering from the webstore" - early delivery (if before the cut off), some items simply won't be in retail due to cost pricing, bundle deals and the pre-order Nuka Cola Girl bonus

"If you can't ensure that pre-orders ship before retail, why not stop taking pre-orders at a certain point to guarantee those orders received prior to that date are fulfilled before retail releases ship?" - instead we're letting people know a cut off date - if they order after that point they still get the deals but we won't guarantee delivery in March. They don't have to order from us they can go to retailers instead and then they will get stock when it comes out, just without the online bonuses. You'd be surprised how many just want to make sure they get the deal though and we're happy to look after them and will make any changes in delivery dates very clear.

"If Modiphius value retailers, why are they making cheaper bundles that retailers can't sell and are only exclusive to your webstore?"

- We're giving retailers a special offer for in-store pre-orders which will be different to what's online (the reason is we cant guarantee how it's used so it would be unfair to online customers if a retailer gave away Nuka Cola girl with every order instead of every order of £120). Their pre-order starts in Dec as distributors do not like starting pre-orders more than 3 months out of shipment. We're doing a lot to support them - recruiting over 500 demo team 'vault dwellers' to help go in to store and demo the games in march, setting up an online store listing to help show fans where they can play and pre-order locally. It's up to retailers to handle their own pricing and bundles and I think you and I both know that stores will be doing their own discounts and special offers when they come out.

"Modiphius is showing an unfinished product, asking for money with only promises and renders to show off and making business decisions in an ad-hoc manner (you guys haven't figured out a pre-order system for retailers? This late in the process? Really?)." - We're gradually showing off product, and provide some fair bonuses for ordering early. However we're more than happy for people to wait and see more of the game as I know some people want to see more of the rules, or more of the painted minis. Some of the costings came in very late - partly to do with sculpts taking time to get approved, the factory taking time to get the costings done and so on. That means you have to spend time looking at the margins to work out what can and can't be offered for the retail pre-order. As it doesn't start until Dec we're taking our time to get it right and give retailers the best deal we can. You don't rush something like that you spend time looking at the numbers and see what you can do. Otherwise you make massive expensive mistakes. And that's a quick way to kill the game.

Please remember this is a hugely complex process with stock being ordered in both China, France, and the UK, with three factories involved, and co-ordinated distribution fulfiment going in multiple directions to ensure we hit all distributors at the same time. We have to use pre-order sales to justify very large and expensive stock ordering with all three factories and coordinate assembly of all the different sets to ensure they are high quality and ship at the right time. It may seem messy but we don't rush things and do things at our own pace, it maybe frustrating because another company does it differently, but we're not forcing you to spend money now and would rather you wait if you're not sure. We have invested a vast sum of money in this and still have plenty to spend to get us to March (since we'll not stop developing now - we're already working on and investing in Wave 2 designs and development).

Hope that helps - there's actually some more bonuses to unveil for pre-orders but we're confirming details before we unveil them and again will do so in our own time.

DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Hand cast resin is hand cast so dependant on how many trained people the workshop that Modiphius is working with can put on the production line at maximum capacity

if preorders go well, and retail interest is high they could be in a position where demand outstrips supply

the caster might consider taking on extra staff if demand is strong but might not find it convenient to do so

That is one possibility. So, assuming that is the case, if the casting output is limited, why run the pre-order right up to the month before retail release? Why not cap pre-orders at a certain point to allow for retail production? Unless retail really isn't as much of a priority as it is being made out to be, you know, so more sales can stay direct order.

Since they still haven't figured out what sort of pre-order deals they are offering retailers, it is hard for me to not arrive at the conclusion this pre-order is a Kickstarter-lite operation that will prioritize Modiphius' customers over retail customers, and that retail was never really a priority in the first place.

As above we're using the pre-order to work with the factory to scale up the production, the online and retail pre-order also helps us estimate the numbers for the chinese production of the PVC starter set which requires very big volumes and so we have to be careful to get the quantity just right. We have to work responsibly with the resin factory as they need to take on extra staff if the demand is very big and this long lead pre-order helps us plan this better with them or use their existing resources to build up stock.

Again as I mentioned we're running the pre-order through to the end of February to allow people to take advantage of the deals on the condition that we may not be able to guarantee their delivery in march - however if the production planning goes well that may not be the case. We're taking our time to plan the pre-order deals to give retailers the best options possible, but we won't rush that process and make expensive mistakes. Retail is a priority since this is not a Kickstarter. It doesn't pay for the entire first 1-2 years releases in one go, and this is why we're setting up a retail locator so fans can find where their nearest store taking part in the pre-order is, or where they can try the game first when it comes out.

Wow, thank you for that very lengthy and detailed answer. Very much appreciated. Personally I'm waiting to see a bit more of the rules, that will determine if I get into this as a painting project or a game system. But its good to hear your plans for retail support as that makes me more confident a local scene might develop.

 rabidaskal wrote:
Wow, thank you for that very lengthy and detailed answer. Very much appreciated. Personally I'm waiting to see a bit more of the rules, that will determine if I get into this as a painting project or a game system. But its good to hear your plans for retail support as that makes me more confident a local scene might develop.

I'm telling myself I'm waiting for more info and rules, too.
But I'm already saving up to drop $400+ on this, regardless.

So, are the pre-order prices the same as the retail prices later, but the bundles include savings? Or is everything in the pre-order individually discounted compared to the eventual retail prices?

Also, out of curiousity, are the resin models being spin cast or are you using all gravity molds? My guess would be spin cast for the infantry and scenery bits and gravity molds for larger stuff like the Corvegas.

 modiphius wrote:
hey gang here's some answers and stuff!

Desubot wrote:@modiphius

Though too late as i already checked out
would it be possible to do an upcharge on the starter set and replace the pvc for resin?
my assumptions is no as its probably a boxed set.

Yes just email lloyd@modiphius.com and he'll look after you

Thanks man

hopefully i wont lose my early bird spot

 modiphius wrote:
We'll be making enough stock in advance of launch to cope with all pre-orders - retailers included. However there will be cut off dates for both online and retail pre-orders after which we can't guarantee stock will be delivered in March, but they will still get the pre-order bonuses

Thanks for clarifying this point. Previous statements made the situation seem like you were prioritizing production for pre-orders and everything else was secondary.

 modiphius wrote:
Please remember this is a hugely complex process with stock being ordered in both China, France, and the UK, with three factories involved, and co-ordinated distribution fulfiment going in multiple directions to ensure we hit all distributors at the same time. We have to use pre-order sales to justify very large and expensive stock ordering with all three factories and coordinate assembly of all the different sets to ensure they are high quality and ship at the right time. It may seem messy but we don't rush things and do things at our own pace, it maybe frustrating because another company does it differently, but we're not forcing you to spend money now and would rather you wait if you're not sure. We have invested a vast sum of money in this and still have plenty to spend to get us to March (since we'll not stop developing now - we're already working on and investing in Wave 2 designs and development).

What is frustrating is the mixed messages and changing information that has occurred leading up to and immediately following the pre-order launch. It is entirely messy, it is confusing to keep information straight, and while it may have justification internally, externally it is off-putting. And really, that may be the most disappointing thing about the way this pre-order has been rolled out. Not being able to excitedly join in on the fun of pre-ordering because there is so much missing, or changing, information sucks. It seems like if you guys had waited a few more weeks a lot of these issues would have been resolved behind the scenes instead of correcting as you go publicly.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 modiphius wrote:
We'll be making enough stock in advance of launch to cope with all pre-orders - retailers included. However there will be cut off dates for both online and retail pre-orders after which we can't guarantee stock will be delivered in March, but they will still get the pre-order bonuses

Thanks for clarifying this point. Previous statements made the situation seem like you were prioritizing production for pre-orders and everything else was secondary.

 modiphius wrote:
Please remember this is a hugely complex process with stock being ordered in both China, France, and the UK, with three factories involved, and co-ordinated distribution fulfiment going in multiple directions to ensure we hit all distributors at the same time. We have to use pre-order sales to justify very large and expensive stock ordering with all three factories and coordinate assembly of all the different sets to ensure they are high quality and ship at the right time. It may seem messy but we don't rush things and do things at our own pace, it maybe frustrating because another company does it differently, but we're not forcing you to spend money now and would rather you wait if you're not sure. We have invested a vast sum of money in this and still have plenty to spend to get us to March (since we'll not stop developing now - we're already working on and investing in Wave 2 designs and development).

What is frustrating is the mixed messages and changing information that has occurred leading up to and immediately following the pre-order launch. It is entirely messy, it is confusing to keep information straight, and while it may have justification internally, externally it is off-putting. And really, that may be the most disappointing thing about the way this pre-order has been rolled out. Not being able to excitedly join in on the fun of pre-ordering because there is so much missing, or changing, information sucks. It seems like if you guys had waited a few more weeks a lot of these issues would have been resolved behind the scenes instead of correcting as you go publicly.

Perhaps its because I haven't been following it with a microscope, but it doesn't seem that messy to me. there was the resin/PVC questions and the price issue that needed to be fixed for the super early buyers. But besides that seems pretty straightforward. Our group looked at it day one, then decided over the next few days and we see they fixed prices. checked out all the items wed like and made our order.

Ive dealt with far more terrible releases/preorders in the past (dropfleet, anything from CMON, anything from SPM) so this is nothing

Many thanks for taking the time to write these posts Modiphius, is really appreciated!

I know the product isn't yet delivered, but I can tell you in comparison to how another lisenced project was run and their communications (AvP) so far this is at least 10,000 times better.

Saw painted Preston on Facebook today! It's so cool, great job on that guys!

 Rotgut wrote:
Saw painted Preston on Facebook today! It's so cool, great job on that guys!

This one?

Is the Nora Sole Survivor Miniature available yet?

I don't think anything is actually available yet?