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2017/04/22 21:45:41
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site
Whirlwind wrote: Quite possibly, but there are other possibilities too. It could be a hedging of bets thing that *if* a large section of the community do reject the new rules then they may just switch to HH and hence they keep the expenditure. HH could then quietly include aliens and all may be well for GW. Alternatively there could be a massive hand bag fight internally over the issue and this is the way GW are saying we're in round 3 and there are no knockouts yet, please come back later.
Hedge their bets? If the last 30 years have proved nothing, it is that 40K players will put up with bad rules just to push their cool space fantasy miniatures around. You make it sound like 7th Ed was the pinnacle of wargaming rules. It was just the last (and to most, familiar) set of rules.*
Haven't played since 3rd and haven't played regularly since Rogue Trader. Have a table full of stuff prepping for SWA. Bought a Start Collecting Tau box and numerous other 'cool' stuff from GW in the decades since I last played a game. 8th looks to be the version that sucks me (and people like me) back in.
Iain.
* When John Lennon was asked if Ringo was the best drummer ever, Lennon responded he wasn't even the best drummer in the Beatles. Even on this thread there are many people calling 7th Ed a dumpster fire, not that it is. There was 6 versions of 40K before the current one. This too has happened before, six times.
Yup. Right here. My group has been on the bench since 4th edition. Too many changes, too many dumb rules, too many special rules, too many heavy handed nerfs, too much power creep.
The ork players loved it until 5th, as did the Tyranid players.
The crap non Eldar players have gotten in 7th makes you want to hit GWHQ with a MOAB. Too many random charts, too many random rolls. You don't know how far you can run, how hard it will be to use powers, if you can use powers ta ll, too many LOS games, True LOS is just bad. Oh, I can see his bolt gun tip, I can shoot his squad! Hell, even the way wounds and saves are allocated is just bad.
yes, AOS this game, hit it hard. Make it fun. Rogue Trader was great, but it was a tiny skirmish game. At least 2nd and 3rd had character. 5-7th has been an abomination on gaming.
Stalking the void since 1987.
2017/04/22 21:47:04
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site
I've read the financial reports and the investor packs - they don't say any of what you've suggested. If I missed something please feel free to share the exact quotes.
Overall this whole thing is great news. The entire community I have access to has burst into raucous discussion.
Dakka, reddit, 4chan, facebook, everywhere people are talking and excited, and the people who are nay saying are almost completely drowned out.
The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
2017/04/22 21:50:17
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site
streetsamurai wrote: I don't think that 30k is nearly big enough to be a safety valve in case 40k 8th edition falter.
It's not a safety valve, its to try and capture those that might not appreciate the changes but might stick with GW with an alternative outlet.
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
2017/04/22 21:56:59
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site
JohnnyHell wrote: Indeed. I know a company won't ever shout "We're screwed" but they have shareholders and can't lie repeatedly to them, and have been saying "we grew sales" quite a lot. Even if they sold them to fewer people as everyone apparently rage quit after End Times. They seem to have built a thriving new system, and are about to bolster their sales of their top earner. Good times in Nottingham. Seems the only narrative some folk want to forge is of a dwindling, incompetent GW when the last 18 months has shown quite the reverse.
That's not quite true when you look at relative sales by volume. For the most part sales is done by value. I did a bit of a detailed analysis of the last financial return a while ago but in summary. At constant currency at the end of AoS year there was big drop in sales and profit was largely bolstered by TW:W franchise, Vermintide and Mordheim games to name a few. IIRC correctly it was about 20-30% drop in total sales. As most other things were equal it was constant currency these are largely attributed to decline in sales by volume. The last financial forecast saw a large jump in sales by value, however once you looked at it in constant currency terms (i.e. ignoring the UKs populace's desire to trash the £) then sales were no where near as robust and showed only a modest increase (about 10% IIRC). As such by volume GW haven't recovered but sales by value have but that's largely due to exports and despite the tanking £ keeping prices the same for everyone (ergo they get more UK £'s for each $ or Euro).
It is unlikely that GW will want to see the same issues as AoS brought them (they've pretty much acknowledged the issues in the 40kFAQ) so hence it is not beyond the possibilities that they will want to protect against it some what. It may be that they are doing this keeping 30K as it is "just in case". It may be that "40k lite" is a roaring success and they can bring forward 30k into the 40k ruleset, but it could be deemed financially prudent to give existing players that don't like the changes another *GW* outlet.
Ah you mean, the badly done analysis you did?
Also, this is from last year's half year report:
Spoiler:
Sales
Reported sales fell by 2.2% to £55.3 million for the period. On a constant currency basis, sales were
up by 0.7% from £56.5 million to £56.9 million; split by channel this comprised: retail £23.0 million
(2014: £23.4 million), trade £22.3 million (2014: £22.0 million) and mail order £11.6 million (2014:
£11.1 million).
Retail
This channel showed growth in non-core retail but was offset by declines in our core retail business.
However on a constant currency basis sales were broadly in line with last year. We opened, including
relocations, 22 one man store format stores and three multi man format stores in the period. We also
started our trial of four multi man format stores in high footfall locations; Sydney, Munich, Paris and
Copenhagen. After closing 13 stores, our net total number of stores at the end of the period is 430.
The key priority is store manager recruitment. On 9 November 2015, I appointed an expert in
recruitment to my management team. This person will ensure we have a constant supply of retail store
managers and trade recruiters and account developers. She will also work with me to review our
global people strategy.
Trade
All key territories were broadly in line with last year. In the period, our net number of trade outlets
increased by 61 accounts.
To broaden our core trade product reach, in the period, we have designed a small new product range
and are at present actively signing up distribution agents to sell this product into North America. We
continue to work on other product formats to optimise other opportunities.
Mail order
Sales in our online shops were up 5.3%.
Full year.
Spoiler:
Retail sales fell by 1.3 % in the year (-0.4% at constant currency). Our underlying performance was -4.4%, which was mostly offset by the
contribution from 33 net new stores and our new visitor centre delivering 100% growth.
Our underlying performance in our own stores to January 2016 wasn’t good enough. I made some changes in our in-country retail support
structure to address the decline. Our flat management structure did not support the complexity of managing 149 stores across 14 countries
in Continental Europe. In January 2016 we moved to a country based solution. We now have four territory managers;
Germany/Scandinavia, Netherlands, France and Spain/Italy. We are also piloting five training stores in North America. These training stores
are run as profitable stores. To reduce travel time and cost we now send our new recruits for their initial training to one of these stores.
We are launching a new skills based training programme at our August 2016 global retail workshops.
Trade
Sales increased by 0.1% during the year (-0.7% at constant currency). Our new trade team for accounts in the UK and Continental Europe
has settled in well and made some progress in the year. Sales in North America were broadly in line with last year. We have also updated
our trade product range in June 2016 to ensure we provide our stockist accounts with our best sellers.
Mail order
Sales fell by 1.8% (-1.6% at constant currency). Sales of our Forge World range grew by 28% offset by a 12% decline in our Citadel range. In
the first half of 2016/17 we will be making a change to our home page; removing complexity and adding a deeper introduction to our
worlds. We are committed to continuous investment in our web store shopping experience.
During the year we successfully migrated our web data centre to a new location in North America
So that makes a global -2.7 decrease in sales at constant currency and factoring everything for 2015-2016 as a whole. Twenty percent decrease in sales is a made up value. Only holding up the argument of the citadel reduction once you remember that the 2014-2015 period was when a lot of new kits and books for 40k were released (skitarii, cult mechanicus, new eldar codex, necrons got updates), in addition to the end times events,
Yes, you're making gak up.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/04/22 22:04:51
2017/04/22 22:01:16
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site
streetsamurai wrote: I don't think that 30k is nearly big enough to be a safety valve in case 40k 8th edition falter.
I agree.
I think Forgeworld are hedging their bets. If this new version of the game takes off they will convert over to it, if not they will release their own core rulebook based on 6th/7th which is compatable with the existing HH books.
But if 8th flops not enough people will switch over to 30K to keep GW afloat. And that's the big gamble GW are taking. If this flops like AoS did on arrival then they are in for some very rough times financially.
it's the quiet ones you have to look out for. Their the ones that change the world, the loud ones just take the credit for it.
2017/04/22 22:05:56
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site
Whirlwind wrote: Quite possibly, but there are other possibilities too. It could be a hedging of bets thing that *if* a large section of the community do reject the new rules then they may just switch to HH and hence they keep the expenditure. HH could then quietly include aliens and all may be well for GW. Alternatively there could be a massive hand bag fight internally over the issue and this is the way GW are saying we're in round 3 and there are no knockouts yet, please come back later.
Hedge their bets? If the last 30 years have proved nothing, it is that 40K players will put up with bad rules just to push their cool space fantasy miniatures around. You make it sound like 7th Ed was the pinnacle of wargaming rules. It was just the last (and to most, familiar) set of rules.*
Haven't played since 3rd and haven't played regularly since Rogue Trader. Have a table full of stuff prepping for SWA. Bought a Start Collecting Tau box and numerous other 'cool' stuff from GW in the decades since I last played a game. 8th looks to be the version that sucks me (and people like me) back in.
Iain.
* When John Lennon was asked if Ringo was the best drummer ever, Lennon responded he wasn't even the best drummer in the Beatles. Even on this thread there are many people calling 7th Ed a dumpster fire, not that it is. There was 6 versions of 40K before the current one. This too has happened before, six times.
And people keep giving them their money. Blind obedience is all some people know.
2017/04/22 22:06:42
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site
I'm still trying to see how people think this is going to "flop like AoS" when they're basically taking the parts people like about what AoS has become and leaving out the stuff that people didn't.
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress 2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
2017/04/22 22:08:47
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site
I'll be honest. I haven't enjoyed GW for the past 10-15 years, but I don't think 40K can flop. I think sales could drop off a bit, or people could throw a fit and leave...but 40K is always going to attract people.
I mean...people play 7th edition. It's terrible, but loads of people play it. As long as they don't kill the fluff and people can still buy Space Marines, I can't see 40K going anywhere (drastically).
2017/04/22 22:10:01
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site
Elbows wrote: I'll be honest. I haven't enjoyed GW for the past 10-15 years, but I don't think 40K can flop. I think sales could drop off a bit, or people could throw a fit and leave...but 40K is always going to attract people.
I mean...people play 7th edition. It's terrible, but loads of people play it. As long as they don't kill the fluff and people can still buy Space Marines, I can't see 40K going anywhere (drastically).
Not only that, but there was a poll in 40K Discussion a while back, and a high number of respondents answered that if 8th was gak they'd still likely keep playing.
You can't buy that sort of loyalty, even if it left me shaking my head.
It makes sense for GW to try and snare more people by doing their best to make 8th a good game, but it doesn't seem a prerequisite for it to succeed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/22 22:12:33
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
So, regarding the disappearance of Khorne Daemonkin. I highly doubt they'll disappear. As they are yes, but I highly think that down the road the World Eaters are going to get a share of plastic love, alongside the rest of traitor legions. At the end of the day, they'll rework marine/daemon relations and deals and it will be more or less the same as the defunct faction under a different name.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/22 22:14:06
2017/04/22 22:14:06
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site
LightKing wrote: So i assume the Nu-Marines are a result of the Imperium having access to Roboute's gene-seed again along with Cawl's new machinations?
For all we know this could well be Guilliman instaurating a deathwatch equivalent and give them all new-toys. Would like the concept, to be honest, if they add some twist to it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/22 22:15:04
2017/04/22 22:14:46
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site
So aside from explaining international business to an ecommerce professional (thanks), you do agree that GW are not dwindling or incompetent? Cos that was the point of my post.
I'm slightly confused, When did I ever say they were? In fact in some ways you could argue the opposite because if they are intending to see how things go and try and capture those that might leave with 30k then surely that shows competence and not repeating prior mistakes?
All I was trying to highlight that there may numerous reasons why GW aren't changing 30k to 40k rules immediately of which one the idea of even the possibility of the idea some people might not like the changes seems to have stirred up a hornets nest to put it mildly and politely and as requested by the mods I'll leave it there.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/22 22:22:37
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
2017/04/22 22:23:08
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site
There's been a lot of chatter about templates going away. That image "screams" starter box, but who knows. Definitely another bit of suggestive evidence that templates might not make the cut.
It feels after so long that GW are at least trying to listen to us, and try to make the game... fun.
I knew coming back into the hobby after 15 years was a good thing!
374th Mechanized 195pts
2017/04/22 22:30:32
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site
LightKing wrote: So i assume the Nu-Marines are a result of the Imperium having access to Roboute's gene-seed again along with Cawl's new machinations?
As a wise man once said "to assume it to make an ASS out of U and ME".
I don't think anything is changing with the geneseed, it will be purely an armour change. One that may not even be acknowledged.
2017/04/22 22:32:06
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site
The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
Legion: Dark Angels 
yes yes yes, 1000 x yes! 
374th Mechanized 195pts 
