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I must be one of the rare individuals who keeps all of their receipts and really tight personal accounting books.

Also most modern businesses can email you a receipt from the register, no online ordering required. And nearly every single Point of Sale system can look up past transactions and reprint your receipt. If they can't then they are a gak run business and you should probably stop shopping there.

 whembly wrote:
Chargers strike first?

Holy balls... that's a yuuuuuuuuge boone for Orks!

Overwatch at full BS ohhhh thats going to leave a mark.














Only kidding they never mentioned Overwatch but just saying probably wait before you buy maore assault troops.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Most of these sound like they'll be good changes, but i don't really like the sound of removing vehicle armour values and templates. Were those two things really that bad? I've not actually played for about 10 years so i'm not sure, can someone explain what the problem with those two things were?

Armor values were basically the same thing as toughness extended out past 10, but had the additional effect of making certain vehicles totally immune to certain weapons. That made vehicles very hard to balance in the meta: you either had strong vehicles that forced everyone to overload on anti-vehicle weapons, or vehicles that were mostly totally useless except for a handful of extremely difficult to kill ones (such as knights). Then you had the very binary system of the vehicle damage table, which was another can of worms.

Removing templates is kind of take-or-leave. They're a pretty fiddly, somewhat archaic way of resolving multiple wound weapons and can slow down a game, so in AoS they went to a system where a successful wound from a 'template' weapon just does, say, D6 wounds. But they have their own benefits too. I'm fine with removing them; just results in fewer little pieces I need to keep track of when playing.

 loki old fart wrote:
How will flamers work?
How is it done in AOS?

I also want to know this.

 Mymearan wrote:


Guess that's American credit card culture at work then - over here everyone uses a debit card (not credit), no one uses cash and 90% of customers would have a bank statement even if they didn't keep the receipt.

So instead of placing the blame on the person losing their records you'd rather assume GW would not follow through with a publicly declared statement?

 Ratius wrote:

As someone who has zero interest in either of them I am disappointed that they are going increasingly down a Human centric story line. With the non Humans being made to be spectators.

Thats a jump though, they have said Xenos will have a full book themselves, new factions will be released (assume some Xenos?) and suppliments and new codices for all.
I cant see the Xenos factions getting any less love - perhaps initially on launch since 40k was always built on IoM VS Chaos but once it ramps up later it'll be ok.

It isn't about the level of treatment in game and support they receive, but rather the threat is going to be about Chaos being the big threat. Never mind the Tyranids, the race that has already consumed countless galaxies and is now starting to enter the Milky way. Or forget about all Necron Tombworlds waking up, the very things that almost destroyed the galaxy billions of years ago, or the emergent Tau and their rapid technological developments that show up the Imperium, or Orks, one of the main reasons that Space Marines were developed to help reclaim the Galaxy.

No what the real threat is the small remnants of those who lost a war 10,000 years ago.

40K was always about the Imperium of man being attacked by a multitude of threats, not one being greater than the other. Elevating one above the others makes the rest feel as if they are bit players in the narrative. Gone from cast members of equal footing to cameo appearances.

 kronk wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:
How will flamers work?
How is it done in AOS?

I also want to know this.

Some weapons get more bonuses versus bigger units. So a catapult might get +1 to hit is there are 10 or more models. Or another weapon might do more damage. There are several ways to cut it.

Expect flamers to be some plus to hit against certain sizes.

sturguard wrote:

Yeah I'm older than most, so yeah when I purchase its generally in cash so I know I can afford it rather than carrying thousands of dollars of credit card debt like most. Email confirmations would require you to purchase online, some of us support local game stores. Again, I think you are carrying this a bit too far on how much work people are going to do to find that receipt from 6 weeks ago. Is it a nice gesture, but plenty of companies employ similar tactics- just mail in this receipt to get your free box of cereal or this or that, because they know the actual amount of people that will actually do it is small.

If you're purchasing things with cash, then you should try...I dunno, just bringing it back?

 kronk wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:
How will flamers work?
How is it done in AOS?

I also want to know this.

They deal multiple (random) wounds. Artillery pieces like Cannons have a high armor modifier (reduce save by 2) and deal high amounts of damage (d6 wounds). In essence, it's estimating that a cannon hit with a template would approximately cover 6 models, and then d6 is to determine how many get hurt. Much easier than fiddling with where to place a marker for 5 minutes and then arguing about what it covers once you scatter it and if it scattered the correct way.

Overall very good changes. Looking forward for this new ed!

The deathstar-killing move was one of the best things. Allies should be used to patch holes, not to improve what you already do well.

 Mymearan wrote:

Guess that's American credit card culture at work then - over here everyone uses a debit card (not credit), no one uses cash and 90% of customers would have a bank statement even if they didn't keep the receipt.

Your bank statements itemize each purchase so that you can see exactly what was bought in a multiple item purchase? That is impressive and far beyond what is available in the US. Over here, bank statements just list the grand total of a purchase and if you heaven forbid bought more than one item then the price won't be correct. Heck, even if your GW codex was bought as a single purchase, our statements here don't differentiate between a $50 GW codex or a $50 Bolt Action rulebook.. they show up the same as a generic $50 purchase that GW would be bonkers to accept on empty faith.

In Canada debit is the most common way of buying stuff unless your over 60 then it starts to drop off a little.

Not too many people like using credit cards here. If I have to buy stuff online I use paypal. I hate credit card companies. A lot of American companies are trying to force credit card usage on us here and it's not working.

Requizen wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:
How will flamers work?
How is it done in AOS?

I also want to know this.

They deal multiple (random) wounds. Artillery pieces like Cannons have a high armor modifier (reduce save by 2) and deal high amounts of damage (d6 wounds). In essence, it's estimating that a cannon hit with a template would approximately cover 6 models, and then d6 is to determine how many get hurt. Much easier than fiddling with where to place a marker for 5 minutes and then arguing about what it covers once you scatter it and if it scattered the correct way.

I'd love to see the scatter die squatted. It brought more damage than fun in our games...

 kronk wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:
How will flamers work?
How is it done in AOS?

I also want to know this.

It can be simplified as

Templates and small blasts d3 hits

Large blasts d6 hits

There are some special rules in a few units like it is an auto hit for a terrorgheist if the unit is more than 6 models . This change would allow the template weapons of old to wound single model units (like a battle cannon vs a tyrant), but it might also make hero sniping very easey

Requizen wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:
How will flamers work?
How is it done in AOS?

I also want to know this.

They deal multiple (random) wounds. Artillery pieces like Cannons have a high armor modifier (reduce save by 2) and deal high amounts of damage (d6 wounds). In essence, it's estimating that a cannon hit with a template would approximately cover 6 models, and then d6 is to determine how many get hurt. Much easier than fiddling with where to place a marker for 5 minutes and then arguing about what it covers once you scatter it and if it scattered the correct way.

Which was a fault of the rules and player's bad habits (roll the scatter near the target FFS!). Both could have been addressed and templates could have been kept. WMH's template resolution is nice (GW could have adopted a similar system, but that would require new templates) and tight.

But I digress, this is neither here nor there.

Warp-fire Projector. Pick a unit within 8", that unit suffers 2D3 Mortal Wounds.

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-stormfiends-en.pdf

Flamers of Tzeentch Warpflame attack is a range 18" 3 attack, 4+ to hit, 3+ to wound D3 damage attack. (oddly no rules on GW's website)

So I suspect they're going to play around with them. Some may end up like Warp-fire projectors, others might get a more comprehensive change.
There are also probably some better examples out there.

 Gamgee wrote:
In Canada debit is the most common way of buying stuff unless your over 60 then it starts to drop off a little.

Not too many people like using credit cards here. If I have to buy stuff online I use paypal. I hate credit card companies. A lot of American companies are trying to force credit card usage on us here and it's not working.

Good tell'em to sod off. 60+ here and use debit all the time.

I'm liking everything I heard. Cheers to 8th!

SeanDrake wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Chargers strike first?

Holy balls... that's a yuuuuuuuuge boone for Orks!

Overwatch at full BS ohhhh thats going to leave a mark.


Only kidding they never mentioned Overwatch but just saying probably wait before you buy maore assault troops.

Overwatch doesn't really exist in AoS.

You can fire while in combat, but not necessarily into combat(I think GHB addresses this bit).

There's a few armies/units where they, effectively, get Overwatch. Wood Elves are a notable one where their Warscroll Battalion allows you to fire at a unit within a certain distance of your Nomad Prince, and Sisters of the Watch(the new name for the Sisters of Avelorn) get a special rule called "Loose Until the Last" where once per turn if an enemy unit ends its Charge within 1/2 an inch of the unit the Sisters of the Watch can immediately shoot as though it was their Shooting phase.

The only thing I really don't like is that I'm not gonna be able to play the new edition for what, two months? Boy what a refreshing feeling.

SeanDrake wrote:

 VeteranNoob wrote:
Couldn't be more excited for everything they said...and that's just the beginning. Looking forward to 40K becoming enjoyable and very prominent in my gaming areas again.

If it becomes as prominent in my area as it's father AoS I will never play again

If it becomes as prominent in my area as AoS I can play literally dusk to dawn any day of the week

 Not-not-kenny wrote:
The only thing I really don't like is that I'm not gonna be able to play the new edition for what, two months? Boy what a refreshing feeling.

Patience is a virtue.

At least they'll give us something each day until launch.

I do wonder how characters will be handled. Is look out sir still in? Can they still hide in units? I think those must be a given considering 40K has so much shooting.

Ruin wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:
How will flamers work?
How is it done in AOS?

I also want to know this.

They deal multiple (random) wounds. Artillery pieces like Cannons have a high armor modifier (reduce save by 2) and deal high amounts of damage (d6 wounds). In essence, it's estimating that a cannon hit with a template would approximately cover 6 models, and then d6 is to determine how many get hurt. Much easier than fiddling with where to place a marker for 5 minutes and then arguing about what it covers once you scatter it and if it scattered the correct way.

Which was a fault of the rules and player's bad habits (roll the scatter near the target FFS!). Both could have been addressed and templates could have been kept. WMH's template resolution is nice (GW could have adopted a similar system, but that would require new templates) and tight.

But I digress, this is neither here nor there.

Templates while having a nice thematic feel to them, do slow the game down, and are one of the biggest points of disagreement during games. Seeing them go is nice. While the way that WHM do there Template weapons is nice, it still feels a bit antiquated in model games to have templates.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Not-not-kenny wrote:
The only thing I really don't like is that I'm not gonna be able to play the new edition for what, two months? Boy what a refreshing feeling.

Patience is a virtue.

At least they'll give us something each day until launch.

I do wonder how characters will be handled. Is look out sir still in? Can they still hide in units? I think those must be a given considering 40K has so much shooting.

I think they said no hiding in units, no word on 'look out sir'.

 Kanluwen wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Chargers strike first?

Holy balls... that's a yuuuuuuuuge boone for Orks!

Overwatch at full BS ohhhh thats going to leave a mark.


Only kidding they never mentioned Overwatch but just saying probably wait before you buy maore assault troops.

Overwatch doesn't really exist in AoS.

You can fire while in combat, but not necessarily into combat(I think GHB addresses this bit).

There's a few armies/units where they, effectively, get Overwatch. Wood Elves are a notable one where their Warscroll Battalion allows you to fire at a unit within a certain distance of your Nomad Prince, and Sisters of the Watch(the new name for the Sisters of Avelorn) get a special rule called "Loose Until the Last" where once per turn if an enemy unit ends its Charge within 1/2 an inch of the unit the Sisters of the Watch can immediately shoot as though it was their Shooting phase.

Overwatch could also work as one of those command points things: Orks are charging at your guardsmen, you spend one command point to shoot at them first, dunno.

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:
Warp-fire Projector. Pick a unit within 8", that unit suffers 2D3 Mortal Wounds.

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-stormfiends-en.pdf

Flamers of Tzeentch Warpflame attack is a range 18" 3 attack, 4+ to hit, 3+ to wound D3 damage attack. (oddly no rules on GW's website)

So I suspect they're going to play around with them. Some may end up like Warp-fire projectors, others might get a more comprehensive change.
There are also probably some better examples out there.

So wounds against the unit, not model ?

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Not-not-kenny wrote:
The only thing I really don't like is that I'm not gonna be able to play the new edition for what, two months? Boy what a refreshing feeling.

Patience is a virtue.

At least they'll give us something each day until launch.

I do wonder how characters will be handled. Is look out sir still in? Can they still hide in units? I think those must be a given considering 40K has so much shooting.

With AoS, the lowliest characters tend to have 5 Wounds with a moderately okay save.

I doubt we'll see hiding in units, given that they mentioned heroes having auras when talking about keywords.

 Kanluwen wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Chargers strike first?

Holy balls... that's a yuuuuuuuuge boone for Orks!

Overwatch at full BS ohhhh thats going to leave a mark.


Only kidding they never mentioned Overwatch but just saying probably wait before you buy maore assault troops.

Overwatch doesn't really exist in AoS.

You can fire while in combat, but not necessarily into combat(I think GHB addresses this bit).

There's a few armies/units where they, effectively, get Overwatch. Wood Elves are a notable one where their Warscroll Battalion allows you to fire at a unit within a certain distance of your Nomad Prince, and Sisters of the Watch(the new name for the Sisters of Avelorn) get a special rule called "Loose Until the Last" where once per turn if an enemy unit ends its Charge within 1/2 an inch of the unit the Sisters of the Watch can immediately shoot as though it was their Shooting phase.

Even WITH the 7ed overwatch, if orks strikes first after charging, that's really brutal.

Of course, the problem then is delivering the damned greenskins is still going to be a challenge.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Not-not-kenny wrote:
The only thing I really don't like is that I'm not gonna be able to play the new edition for what, two months? Boy what a refreshing feeling.

Patience is a virtue.

At least they'll give us something each day until launch.

I do wonder how characters will be handled. Is look out sir still in? Can they still hide in units? I think those must be a given considering 40K has so much shooting.

They cant hide in units in AoS but some have a look out sir type rule. However, I know we shouldn't assume everything is going to be "like AoS". However it does seem to be a common theme in the updates so far that are at least comparable.

 stonehorse wrote:

 Ratius wrote:

As someone who has zero interest in either of them I am disappointed that they are going increasingly down a Human centric story line. With the non Humans being made to be spectators.

Thats a jump though, they have said Xenos will have a full book themselves, new factions will be released (assume some Xenos?) and suppliments and new codices for all.
I cant see the Xenos factions getting any less love - perhaps initially on launch since 40k was always built on IoM VS Chaos but once it ramps up later it'll be ok.

It isn't about the level of treatment in game and support they receive, but rather the threat is going to be about Chaos being the big threat. Never mind the Tyranids, the race that has already consumed countless galaxies and is now starting to enter the Milky way. Or forget about all Necron Tombworlds waking up, the very things that almost destroyed the galaxy billions of years ago, or the emergent Tau and their rapid technological developments that show up the Imperium, or Orks, one of the main reasons that Space Marines were developed to help reclaim the Galaxy.

No what the real threat is the small remnants of those who lost a war 10,000 years ago.

40K was always about the Imperium of man being attacked by a multitude of threats, not one being greater than the other. Elevating one above the others makes the rest feel as if they are bit players in the narrative. Gone from cast members of equal footing to cameo appearances.

I think you should probably not read *too* much into that comment. Every time GW has a big Chaos release, there's talk about "re-establishing Chaos as the main enemy to the Imperium."

And we have a lot of Chaos to come. We know that Nurgle stuff is coming soon -- with Slaanesh and Khorne likely to follow -- and their comments undoubtedly have a lot to do with advertising that. They'll start up the Eldar, Tyranid, etc. hype trains when it comes time to release those codices.