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 Jambles wrote:
Initiative's completely gone eh? That's got some big implications for some armies.

TonyL707 wrote:
And dreadnoughts with 8 wounds. How many lasguns is that?

Ah, man... we're going to be hearing this all the time now aren't we? It's the new "scatbikes". Whenever a new unit comes out, it'll be "how many lasguns to kill? hurr hurr..."

Anything the Lasgun does the Tau Pulse Rifle should do better. Theoretically speaking of course. The problem is there is a large chunk of the tournament scene play testing the rules and a huge amount of people hate the Tau even existing so likely tone us down way more than they should. Eldar probably safe though. I hope I'm wrong. I'm fine with Riptide, Stormsurge, and other Tau nerfs as long as everything else that is currently way more powerful and actually winning tournaments is toned down equally and fairly. I just doubt it will happen.

Hmm, Ork Nobz waaagh banner might be even more worth its weight in teef if it means Nobz hit on a 2+ in combat.

Backfire wrote:

 kodos wrote:

who said that facings are gone?

and yes, if replacing one picture in the book (of course this one picture was the only reason for the rulebook to need more than 12 pages....) with another in-game factor that need to be considered during balancing (which was already to complicated for GW) that don't add any benefit to the game is a win for, this ok

Many assume that facings will be gone, as MC's don't have them and they have combined MC and Vehicle profiles. Also, if implemented the new system would not be any simpler than the old one, so what would be the point?

Dread with only 8 wounds and 3+ save? That seems more fragile than I thought.

a) We don't know if weapons have had their strength values and save modifiers changed. T7 could be the new T8. (Unlikely, but it never ceases to amaze me during an edition change how people take how things are now and try and apply them to the game post jump. Especially in this context where it's changing so much it's invalidating all the supplements.)
b) While we've been told the profiles will do more heavy lifting, we still don't have the complete picture, Dreads can easily have some defensive tech that means they're notably more durable (their armour save can't be modified, for instance) that would mean even if T7 3+ 8W is as 'delicate' as it may be in 7th, that they actually are significantly more survivable.
c) They may now cost significantly less points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Jambles wrote:
Initiative's completely gone eh? That's got some big implications for some armies.

TonyL707 wrote:
And dreadnoughts with 8 wounds. How many lasguns is that?

Ah, man... we're going to be hearing this all the time now aren't we? It's the new "scatbikes". Whenever a new unit comes out, it'll be "how many lasguns to kill? hurr hurr..."

Anything the Lasgun does the Tau Pulse Rifle should do better. Theoretically speaking of course. The problem is there is a large chunk of the tournament scene play testing the rules and a huge amount of people hate the Tau even existing so likely tone us down way more than they should. Eldar probably safe though. I hope I'm wrong. I'm fine with Riptide, Stormsurge, and other Tau nerfs as long as everything else that is currently way more powerful and actually winning tournaments is toned down equally and fairly. I just doubt it will happen.

You ok for tinfoil hats buddy, or can I sell you a few?

They confirmed modifiers for To Hit rolls (cover etc) at Adepticon already.

Backfire wrote:

 kodos wrote:

who said that facings are gone?

and yes, if replacing one picture in the book (of course this one picture was the only reason for the rulebook to need more than 12 pages....) with another in-game factor that need to be considered during balancing (which was already to complicated for GW) that don't add any benefit to the game is a win for, this ok

Many assume that facings will be gone, as MC's don't have them and they have combined MC and Vehicle profiles. Also, if implemented the new system would not be any simpler than the old one, so what would be the point?

but this is AoS style 40k
there can still be unit with the special rule "if in the back of a model, add +2 to to wound and to hit rolls" and because it is GW, there will be no explanation what the "back" is

I'll be happy to be wrong Az.

So initiative is gone! How will that work?

If they're using Battleshock then 7 for marines seems low...maybe they'll have a way to get around it. 10 would have been a good number though, since you'd have to kill half the squad to get them scared.

 Mymearan wrote:
They confirmed modifiers for To Hit rolls (cover etc) at Adepticon already.

Did they? I don't remember seeing that.

Definately wanting to know what the alternative to initiative is, that could be a make or break issue.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
If they're using Battleshock then 7 for marines seems low...maybe they'll have a way to get around it. 10 would have been a good number though, since you'd have to kill half the squad to get them scared.

7 is actually pretty high, Stormcast in AoS have Bravery 6 for example.

So initiative is gone! How will that work?

Aye what happens after round 1 after the chargers have struck first and their enemy has replied?
Who gets to strike first in round 2/3/4 etc?

 Crimson wrote:
So initiative is gone! How will that work?

Maybe the charged units has initiative until he combat is resolved? Perhaps counters to indicate. Although I can't imagine how that will work will multi-unit combats.

On the "high Initiative should always strike first" argument





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mymearan wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
If they're using Battleshock then 7 for marines seems low...maybe they'll have a way to get around it. 10 would have been a good number though, since you'd have to kill half the squad to get them scared.

7 is actually pretty high, Stormcast in AoS have Bravery 6 for example.

Hmm Lizardmen are much better and Marines don;t feel fear whilst pretty sure Stormcast can?

 Mymearan wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
If they're using Battleshock then 7 for marines seems low...maybe they'll have a way to get around it. 10 would have been a good number though, since you'd have to kill half the squad to get them scared.

7 is actually pretty high, Stormcast in AoS have Bravery 6 for example.

True, it is high, but is it high enough? Yeah probably.

Maybe whomever out numbers in round 2 to gets to go first - some sort of weight of numbers rule?

D6 roll off?

Most casualties done gets initiative round 2?

 Mr Morden wrote:
On the "high Initiative should always strike first" argument





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mymearan wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
If they're using Battleshock then 7 for marines seems low...maybe they'll have a way to get around it. 10 would have been a good number though, since you'd have to kill half the squad to get them scared.

7 is actually pretty high, Stormcast in AoS have Bravery 6 for example.

Hmm Lizardmen are much better and Marines don;t feel fear whilst pretty sure Stormcast can?

Stormcast still feel fear but they are more braver than normal men and women.

AFAIK Initiative isn't gone.

Ugh, that is one of the dumbest scenes in a movie. "Hmmmm, let me telegraph my actions to the omnipotent machine because it will sound cool top the audience!"

Please don't use that garbage as proof of anything.

 Ratius wrote:
Maybe whomever out numbers in round 2 to gets to go first - some sort of weight of numbers rule?

D6 roll off?

Most casualties done gets initiative round 2?

That's definitely what the game needs..more D6 rolling to determine everything

Backfire wrote:

Dread with only 8 wounds and 3+ save? That seems more fragile than I thought.

You realize a dreadnought with 8 wounds at toughness 7 is a god compared to what it used to be right?

That thing actually has a very good chance of making it across the field, assuming 6" move + 1d6" run on turn 1 and 2.

I am very happy with that as I own 6 dreadnoughts.

I could see that after the first round of combat, all attacks are made concurrently. No more worrying that the powerfist doesn't get a swing if it survives the first round.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Jambles wrote:
Initiative's completely gone eh? That's got some big implications for some armies.

TonyL707 wrote:
And dreadnoughts with 8 wounds. How many lasguns is that?

Ah, man... we're going to be hearing this all the time now aren't we? It's the new "scatbikes". Whenever a new unit comes out, it'll be "how many lasguns to kill? hurr hurr..."

Anything the Lasgun does the Tau Pulse Rifle should do better. Theoretically speaking of course. The problem is there is a large chunk of the tournament scene play testing the rules and a huge amount of people hate the Tau even existing so likely tone us down way more than they should. Eldar probably safe though. I hope I'm wrong. I'm fine with Riptide, Stormsurge, and other Tau nerfs as long as everything else that is currently way more powerful and actually winning tournaments is toned down equally and fairly. I just doubt it will happen.

The tournament scene doesn't hate tau. The tournament scene hates DAEMONS, it's dakka scrubs that hate Tau.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Ugh, that is one of the dumbest scenes in a movie. "Hmmmm, let me telegraph my actions to the omnipotent machine because it will sound cool top the audience!"

Please don't use that garbage as proof of anything.

Rule of Cool wins every time.

If the balance is screwed this time round then at least we can blame the tourney players - although playtesters seldom receive anything other than abuse.........

 Ratius wrote:
Maybe whomever out numbers in round 2 to gets to go first - some sort of weight of numbers rule?

D6 roll off?

Most casualties done gets initiative round 2?

Two easy answers. Use the movement stat as like previous initiative. Or, player turn dictates who attacks first. Heck, could also use alternating activation like AOS. So there three even.

Sorry if this was answered all ready. This thread is getting hard to keep up with, lol.

Do we know if there is any chance to get a lucky explosion on a vehicle or will every tank now degrade and work until its last HP wound or what ever it will be called?

 davou wrote:
AFAIK Initiative isn't gone.

They specifically said 'in exchange for initiative' with the movement stat.

 Ratius wrote:
Maybe whomever out numbers in round 2 to gets to go first - some sort of weight of numbers rule?

D6 roll off?

Most casualties done gets initiative round 2?

Maybe simultaneous?

[missed a few points]

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Ugh, that is one of the dumbest scenes in a movie. "Hmmmm, let me telegraph my actions to the omnipotent machine because it will sound cool top the audience!"

Please don't use that garbage as proof of anything.

Rule of Cool wins every time.

Yea, I don't know many people that think that line is cool. Maybe if she said, "Dodge that!" after having downed the agent, but telegraphing it to a dude that can't die and shouldn't even be hit after that is stupid, in a movie that does stupid things which says a lot.