Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase

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**Tyran**

Red Corsair wrote:
The las gun thing is getting tired guys. As a DE player I find it hilarious people are not flipping out over poison

Boggles the mind that everyone assumes weapon profiles will remain.

If they do expect more rage about splinter rifles killing that LR then las guns.

That depends on how poison will work.

As for the lasgun, that's one weapon that I don't expect to change much.

**DrNo172000**

jreilly89 wrote:
How's everyone feeling so far?

I'm really glad they took a long hard look at the core rules and realized some of it needs to be gutted. Unfortunately I traded off the last of my 40k last week as I just have other gaming priorities now. I'll still gladly play with friends minis like the dirty freeloader I am.

**Albino Squirrel**

I was kind of expecting the profiles to be more different than they are. Like others have said, maybe 2 wounds for a marine and 3 for a terminator. Or a 1+ save on terminators. Also, nowhere near as much of a shakeup in the profiles and how they work as Age of Sigmar was.

And this:

Don’t worry though – stuff still dies quickly

Why does GW think we want this? After I spend all that time assembling and painting my models and setting up a great looking game, I don't really like having to remove a bunch of my models before they even get a chance to do anything.

**Bobthehero**

Backfire wrote:
Bobthehero wrote:
-2 rend uh.. it should be -4 at a minimum, this really isn't WHFB or AOS

If weapons get too much Rend, it really defeats the purpose of Armour saves...that Dread would be dead meat if it gets no saves.

That's the point, especially when it comes to tank busting weapons, they should laugh at most armor.

**GoatboyBeta**

jreilly89 wrote:
How's everyone feeling so far?

Cautiously optimistic. Bringing back different movement values is good, removing initiative and a unified stat line for all models is interesting, but I 'm still not a fan of fixed to hit and wound rolls. From a game design point I get why they went for fixed rolls but they just feel off to me. I'd rather they had added an avoidance stat to use against BS and kept the opposing WS rolls.

**rollawaythestone**

Albino Squirrel wrote:
I was kind of expecting the profiles to be more different than they are. Like others have said, maybe 2 wounds for a marine and 3 for a terminator. Or a 1+ save on terminators. Also, nowhere near as much of a shakeup in the profiles and how they work as Age of Sigmar was.

And this:

Don’t worry though – stuff still dies quickly

Why does GW think we want this? After I spend all that time assembling and painting my models and setting up a great looking game, I don't really like having to remove a bunch of my models before they even get a chance to do anything.

Probably because we've spent three years crying about unkillable invisi-stars.

**Bobthehero**

Albino Squirrel wrote:

Don’t worry though – stuff still dies quickly

Why does GW think we want this? After I spend all that time assembling and painting my models and setting up a great looking game, I don't really like having to remove a bunch of my models before they even get a chance to do anything.

Because 40k is supposed to be a super grimdark and lethal universe where everything can die like any other redshirt. Or so it was, I guess it changed a lot in the past years.

**Future War Cultist**

Rend will probably be capped at -3. Maybe -4 since they seem to have more common 2+ saves.

**Backfire**

Red Corsair wrote:

Your also making it sound like the 7th ed chart is the way it has been forever. As recent as 6th an ap3 weapon could still pop a vehicle in one shot so stop with the harping on vehicles already. I mean I started in 2nd ed and vehicles back then had multiple hit locations and AV that went up to 25, you see me compare everything current to that?

General perception is that Vehicles are too fragile in 7th Edition, so to that it's natural to compare things, no? And in 5th edition Krak Missile penetration one-shotted a vehicle on 5+, despite this, Vehicles were seen as too strong in that ruleset.
(My Dreads tend to die in Melta - it is their nature to get close and there are always tons of Meltaguns waiting there....)

Any way, what matters in the big picture is the averages, sure lucky one-shots sometimes happened but even in 6th Edition a Krak Missile at BS4 had only 2/54 chance (less than 4%) of killing a Dread. Actual durability can be estimated only when we get more information on how weapons work.

**Breng77**

jreilly89 wrote:
How's everyone feeling so far?

That so much depends on things we don't know.

If dreads cost what they do now they are pretty amazing (Who wouldn't buy them right now if they were 100 point T7 8 wound MCs?) But we don't know how much they cost.

Termies are twice as durable as they were before, but we don't know how instant death will work, how common save modifiers are, what their weapons will do or what their points costs will be.

Lower LD is good for me, if it means sergeants will have higher LD and actually matter more. If your Space Marine Sarge is LD 8 and a Vet sarge is 9, it might actually make them more important. Same with other armies, if Guardsman are LD 5 but their leaders buff them up a bit it will be good I think. So often now LD rolls (unless modified) seem like a formality.

I like it so far in the vacuum we are looking at it in. I wonder if Initiative will be a weapon stat, and not a character stat. So instead of "Power fist makes you I1" it would just have stats like S = User x2 I = 1. If so I think that could be cool because it allows for more variety in CC equipment.

**rollawaythestone**

Bobthehero wrote:
Backfire wrote:
Bobthehero wrote:
-2 rend uh.. it should be -4 at a minimum, this really isn't WHFB or AOS

If weapons get too much Rend, it really defeats the purpose of Armour saves...that Dread would be dead meat if it gets no saves.

That's the point, especially when it comes to tank busting weapons, they should laugh at most armor.

Personally, I hope they are a bit constrained with Rend. I hope most weapons don't have more than a Rend -1 or -2, perhaps -3 for really powerful weapons. Things that previously were AP1 could have stronger Rend -6 or something, but in general i'd like the Rend variability to be pretty low among weapons.

**Gamgee**

Any news on flyers? I seen I think one of the frontline guys say the flyers should just be call ins that strafe the table but are not placed on it permanently sort of like how they work in many rts games.

What would peoples opinions on that be?

**Bobthehero**

Edit: Nevermind

**kodos**

Vaktathi wrote:
Looking at the stats, I'm wondering if some of the baselines have also changed. A Space Marine with Ld7 would seem downright heretical to most people,

it had always been 7, just the sergeant made the troop having 8, until they later removed (they forgot about one edi earlier) the rule that the unit leader improves the LD and just added a plain LD8 to marines

**Bobthehero**

Gamgee wrote:
Any news on flyers? I seen I think one of the frontline guys say the flyers should just be call ins that strafe the table but are not placed on it permanently sort of like how they work in many rts games.

What would peoples opinions on that be?

For some yes, but Valkyries and similar flyers that can hover definitely should remain. Perhaps one of their strenght is the ability to both strafe and hover?

**nintura**

Remember guys, games are supposed to be around 90 minutes. That means stuff is going to die quick and often. Get used to it.

**Asmodai**

Gamgee wrote:
Any news on flyers? I seen I think one of the frontline guys say the flyers should just be call ins that strafe the table but are not placed on it permanently sort of like how they work in many rts games.

What would peoples opinions on that be?

There are to-hit modifiers confirmed in the latest post. Could be something as simple as skimmers are a -1 to hit, fliers a -2.

There's lots of recent plastic kits for them, so I'd expect them to have some sort of "table presence".

**axisofentropy**

How much time passed between Age of Sigmar's official announcement and release?

**Gamgee**

Honestly these rules seem very finalized to me other than them tweaking the values. I would expect release any month now. As a person who has tested numerous beta games on pc (before it became a lame early access fest).

**Kanluwen**

Thommy H wrote:
ChainswordHeretic wrote:
Has this been posted?
https://warhammer40000.com/setting/explore-the-factions/#xenos-forces
There is a new race called the Ynnari under the xenos section!

They're the Eldar faction introduced in the Gathering Storm.

Speaking of factions, I've been thinking about the 'five books' and how they'll break down. Here's my prediction:

- Adeptus Astartes (including Codex and variants, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Deathwatch, Grey Knights and Legion of the Damned)
- Armies of the Imperium (including Astra Militarum, Tempestus Scions, Adeptus Mechanicus, Imperial Knights, Adepta Sororitas, Inquisition, Assassins, Emperor's Talons and all the others dribs and drabs from the Imperial Agents Codex)
- Chaos (Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Daemons, Thousand Sons, Khorne Daemonkin and presumably Death Guard)

Now, here's where it gets tricky, because the Xenos books could break down in any number of ways, but this is an educated guess based on a couple of broad themes:

- Xenos: Ancient Enemies (Orks, Craftworld Eldar, Dark Eldar, Harlequins, Ynnari, Necrons)
- Xenos: New Threats (Tyranids, Genestealer Cults, Tau)

Have I left anyone out? Probably! This split makes the most sense to me though. I don't think you can get away with one book for the entire Imperium, and it makes sense to give Space Marines their own book, since they're the protagonists of the setting. Also, with so much overlap in units, clever use of keywords means they can avoid repetition. A Tactical Squad or Rhino could be assigned a Chaper-specific keyword to synergise with the rest of your army.

The problem is that they didn't (as far as I heard) explicitly say "five army books".

They said five books, which will cover all the existing factions and what you need to play.

Three or four books(I could see Eldar or Space Marines getting their own book, as the case may be) and then a rulebook/campaign book combo.

**Zatsuku**

Considering they said they would put a new update on Warhammer Community every day until release it really can't be that far away.

**Kanluwen**

Asmodai wrote:
Gamgee wrote:
Any news on flyers? I seen I think one of the frontline guys say the flyers should just be call ins that strafe the table but are not placed on it permanently sort of like how they work in many rts games.

What would peoples opinions on that be?

There are to-hit modifiers confirmed in the latest post. Could be something as simple as skimmers are a -1 to hit, fliers a -2.

There's lots of recent plastic kits for them, so I'd expect them to have some sort of "table presence".

I hope there's no flat garbage like "-1 to hit" on Skimmers. Makes no sense for some of them to have an innate penalty to be hit.

Wave Serpents, Falcons, etc are about as big as a tank. Them hovering a few feet above the ground doesn't mean they'd be harder to hit.

**Vaktathi**

pizzaguardian wrote:
For some maths,

If the "to wound" table is the same

The new Dreadnouıght would require 111 scatter laser shots to die (S6 no rend 1 dmg assumed)

The old Dreadnought died with only 40 shots even if it had 5+ cover

Thats almost 3 times durability!

the issue will be with larger multiwound weapons. If a Lascannon does something like D3+3 or D6 wounds, then with BS4 and 3 shots, then they will be trivially easy to destroy if the to-wound values are unchanged. Even at D3 or 2 wounds apiece, it'll require fewer average shots than 7E did.

We'll have to see how it turns out, I was hoping to see a bit higher wound values, but I have no idea what damage looks like either, or if big powerful weapons will be less accessible.

**necrontyrOG**

Psychic phase is still in according to GW.

**Albino Squirrel**

The five books might be the "General's Handbook" equivalent, Space Marines, Imperial, Chaos, and Aliens.

**Hollow**

LD 7 seems about right. As I remember way back in the dusty old days of 2nd that they were LD 7.

**Vaktathi**

kodos wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
Looking at the stats, I'm wondering if some of the baselines have also changed. A Space Marine with Ld7 would seem downright heretical to most people,

it had always been 7, just the sergeant made the troop having 8, until they later removed (they forgot about one edi earlier) the rule that the unit leader improves the LD and just added a plain LD8 to marines

as far as i remember Marines have always been 8 and were 9 with a unit leader, guardsmen were always 7 with an 8 sergeant.

**joseph_curwen**

Clearly, the books are going to be 'Imperium of Man (and other weedy snits,)' 'Ork Freebooterz,' 'Ork Evil Sunz,' 'Ork Snakebites,' 'Uvver Orks.'

**Red Corsair**

Tyran wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
The las gun thing is getting tired guys. As a DE player I find it hilarious people are not flipping out over poison

Boggles the mind that everyone assumes weapon profiles will remain.

If they do expect more rage about splinter rifles killing that LR then las guns.

That depends on how poison will work.

As for the lasgun, that's one weapon that I don't expect to change much.

But that was my whole point. People keep making leaps of logic in regard to durability or lack thereof. Don't expect 90% of the gear in the game to remain as it is. After all, when 2nd moved to 3rd they altered most things. I mean, I can't be the only person that remembers crazy things like auto canons doing d8 wounds or multi meltas doing d12. Heck, assault canons used to do d10 damage per shot and they used 3 sustained fire dice!

I am betting key words will come into play a lot here. For example, poison weapons having a strength now and wound anything on a minimum threshold unless it has the key word vehicle or construct or what have you. Who knows we need to wait, but I am praying that grav gets a major rewrite.

**Youn**

Gamgee wrote:
Honestly these rules seem very finalized to me other than them tweaking the values. I would expect release any month now. As a person who has tested numerous beta games on pc (before it became a lame early access fest).

We already have a good idea when it will be released. The new financial year for Games Workshop starts in June 1st. Eight weeks from April 22nd is June 17th. There was a memo out that said GW employees couldn't take vacation between June 7th (pre-release) and June 17th (Release). Take from that what you will...