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Yeah. I'm extremely glad with what they did with psychic powers. 7ed psychic phase got so tedious that I actually got tired of playing my Thousand Sons. The psychic phase just took forever.

I'm also pleased that invulnerable saves seem to still be a thing.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

Poster on FB: I play Necrons and Tau and i always felt left out of the Pys phase. Like my hands are tied and my opponent is just having thier way. Sucks to not play part of the game.
Like · Reply · 2 · 2 hrs

Warhammer 40,000 That's what every other race feels when Necrons and Tau have their shooting phase...
Like · Reply · 15 · 1 hr

BUUUUURN!

Jerry! Jerry! JERRY!


Seriously though, I do hope Tau gets some sort of defense at least. I know necrons will, because that's traditionally their deal, but Tau tend to have no answer to psy, right?

They have a great answer. it's called DYING.

 Bobthehero wrote:
The company is going in a good direction, but I doubt I could be less hyped for the game.

You're just being salty about assault getting buffed; everything previewed is good and fixed glaring imbalance in the game.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

Poster on FB: I play Necrons and Tau and i always felt left out of the Pys phase. Like my hands are tied and my opponent is just having thier way. Sucks to not play part of the game.
Like · Reply · 2 · 2 hrs

Warhammer 40,000 That's what every other race feels when Necrons and Tau have their shooting phase...
Like · Reply · 15 · 1 hr

BUUUUURN!

Jerry! Jerry! JERRY!


Seriously though, I do hope Tau gets some sort of defense at least. I know necrons will, because that's traditionally their deal, but Tau tend to have no answer to psy, right?

They have a great answer. it's called DYING.

More likely it's called "Not being in range".

The wording on Smite is pretty important:

Closest visible unit.

 Kriswall wrote:
Mortal wounds are just normal wounds where you don't get any sort of armor save. They come from a variety of sources. There is no standard situation where a wound becomes a mortal wound. It's always tied to wargear/abilities/special rules. Most armies/factions in AoS have one or two ways of generating mortal wounds, but it's generally uncommon.

 DynamicCalories wrote:
Mortal Wounds ignore wounds. Sometimes they proc on a dice roll, other times they are automatic. There are abilities that ignore them, such as Nurgle Daemeons with Disgustingly Resilient, which ignore any wounds on a 6.

The worry with D-Scyhes is that they will be similar to a Stormfiend's Warpfire Thrower which currently outputs 2D6 Mortal Wounds to a unit within 8". They're big in the meta as a Chaos unit called Sayl can effectively "throw" them across the board as a spell. That said, they don't work so well against tarpits, or split deployment.

Brian888 wrote:
So, everything in AoS has a save value (for example, a unit may have a 4+ save value). Rend can reduce that save (an attack from a -1 rend weapon reduces that save, effectively, to a 5+). Mortal wounds bypass the save completely; they're automatically applied to the model. HOWEVER, some models (such as Plaguebearers) have a "save-after-the-save" that they can take to cancel mortal wounds or wounds they otherwise would have suffered from failing their save roll. A Plaguebearer, for example, cancels a wound it suffers, whether it's a mortal wound or just a wound from a failed normal save, on a straight 5+.

Thanks for the explanations. I was worried that they were instakill wounds like D weapons or somesuch negating the point of giving vehicles multiple wounds in the first place if some random weapon/spell can one shot them anyways.

 JimOnMars wrote:

Poster on FB: I play Necrons and Tau and i always felt left out of the Pys phase. Like my hands are tied and my opponent is just having thier way. Sucks to not play part of the game.
Like · Reply · 2 · 2 hrs

Warhammer 40,000 That's what every other race feels when Necrons and Tau have their shooting phase...
Like · Reply · 15 · 1 hr

BUUUUURN!

If only the Necron shooting phase was actually that strong :(

Maybe that means it'll be much more potent in 8th? We'll have to wait and see.

Tau doesn't have to worry about smite. It's range is 18" and the weaboos can just shoot them from 48"-72" away. I don't think many psykers will ever get off smite against Tau.

Requizen wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

Poster on FB: I play Necrons and Tau and i always felt left out of the Pys phase. Like my hands are tied and my opponent is just having thier way. Sucks to not play part of the game.
Like · Reply · 2 · 2 hrs

Warhammer 40,000 That's what every other race feels when Necrons and Tau have their shooting phase...
Like · Reply · 15 · 1 hr

BUUUUURN!

If only the Necron shooting phase was actually that strong :(

Maybe that means it'll be much more potent in 8th? We'll have to wait and see.

Probably. I suspect they'll port over the rules from kill team.
Gauss is rerolls to wound and all of their weapons have at least -1 save modifiers, iirc.

 warboss wrote:
snip

If you have any questions about the AoS core rules they are four pages long and available to download for free from the GW website.

 Chaos Legionnaire wrote:
Yeah. I'm extremely glad with what they did with psychic powers. 7ed psychic phase got so tedious that I actually got tired of playing my Thousand Sons. The psychic phase just took forever.

I'm also pleased that invulnerable saves seem to still be a thing.

Yep, I had to print out a grid on which psykers had which spells just to make sure I didn't forget to cast something. Just rolling up spells before the game was a nightmare.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I've nothing against both games having similarities when it comes to generic things like a shooting phase or a movement.
e.g in AOS there is an opportunity to shoot bow and arrow and in 40k, you'll be blasting lasguns at landraiders or whatever
But I feel that both games need to maintain the uniqueness of their respective systems, as that's what sets them apart.
If I want AOS, I'll play AOs. If I want 40K, I'll play 40k etc etc
I just hope they don't blur that line of distinction between the two, but I've no problem with having orcs and orks.

At first glance, I really would not care if a fantasy game or a science fiction game share the same mechanics / game engine.
Where it would be bad is trying to shoe-horn a system that seems geared / optimized toward one type of game and feels forced for another.
40k tends to have big lumbering vehicles as well as large beasts so some gaming mechanics will have to give them some serious consideration (more-so for troop transport).

I hope when they talk about AOS it is more about "lessons learned" from building a new system "from the ground up" and applying that (possibly hard-won) knowledge to the 40k rebuild.
So-far, it seems they might (holding breath!) have succeeded from what I have seen so far.
Many things seem reasonable at first blush, at least cleaning up some of the strange hangers-on of the old system is helpful for anyone new starting.

I would say the #1 tactic for releasing the main rules free is if they goof-up in a BIG way the outcry would be received and they can promptly write a rules change.
No refunds, no crying that they revised it too soon.
It is a "living" document that they can rapidly revise until the moaning is down to a dull roar.
Then they can put together a "greatest hits" BRB compendium and charge a fortune for that!

Again, the plans make sense and are far too reasonable, who the heck is in charge of GW and where is the pod they crawled out of?

This edition can't come fast enough...

 VeteranNoob wrote:
This edition can't come fast enough...

I hate to get all excited about these things but,
I could not agree with you more.

Yup.

I like the way things seem to be going in general.

 Kanluwen wrote:

More likely it's called "Not being in range".

The wording on Smite is pretty important:

Spoiler:

Closest visible unit.

Smite looks quite powerful. It will be interesting to see how that interacts with units of psykers (for example Eldar Warlocks if each one gets a Smite attack). A decent sized unit of these will could make life a misery for any unit. Characters are definitely going to have to be wary about coming out into the open. A unit of 6 (assuming they all do get Smite) would have a good chance of killing Guillemot if he was the nearest target in one turn, or otherwise seriously harming him.

Also just had a thought - it says closest visible target...does that mean if you had Guillemot hiding behind some Marines and the Warlocks can't see the Marines (suppose they are standing behind their own Wraithguard or a strategically placed low wall) does that mean they can attack Guillemot as he would then be the closest *visible* target?

 Whirlwind wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

More likely it's called "Not being in range".

The wording on Smite is pretty important:

Spoiler:

Closest visible unit.

Smite looks quite powerful. It will be interesting to see how that interacts with units of psykers (for example Eldar Warlocks if each one gets a Smite attack). A decent sized unit of these will could make life a misery for any unit. Characters are definitely going to have to be wary about coming out into the open. A unit of 6 (assuming they all do get Smite) would have a good chance of killing Guillemot if he was the nearest target in one turn, or otherwise seriously harming him.

Honestly, it's not hard to figure out how these probably are going to work.

In AoS, units of casters can only do one spell per unit, with units of certain sizes getting +1 to casting/dispelling rolls.

Also given that Warlocks are currently characters? I wouldn't expect them to be a "unit" of just Warlocks.

 Whirlwind wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

More likely it's called "Not being in range".

The wording on Smite is pretty important:

Spoiler:

Closest visible unit.

Smite looks quite powerful. It will be interesting to see how that interacts with units of psykers (for example Eldar Warlocks if each one gets a Smite attack). A decent sized unit of these will could make life a misery for any unit. Characters are definitely going to have to be wary about coming out into the open. A unit of 6 (assuming they all do get Smite) would have a good chance of killing Guillemot if he was the nearest target in one turn, or otherwise seriously harming him.

Also just had a thought - it says closest visible target...does that mean if you had Guillemot hiding behind some Marines and the Warlocks can't see the Marines (suppose they are standing behind their own Wraithguard or a strategically placed low wall) does that mean they can attack Guillemot as he would then be the closest *visible* target?

Potentially, but most factions will have psychers to unbind which just required matching their roll IIRC and I don't think there is a limit on how many spells you can unbind. SO Tigurious for example could be well placed in order to try to stifle most powers coming into your lines.

I'd also like to know when the Q&A session is; IIRC it was supposed to be today?

 davou wrote:
I'd also like to know when the Q&A session is; IIRC it was supposed to be today?

Yea I have asked with no luck so far. I checked FB but couldn't dig anything up... I also was distracted by Duncan painting an Ork Boy

 Red Corsair wrote:


Potentially, but most factions will have psychers to unbind which just required matching their roll IIRC and I don't think there is a limit on how many spells you can unbind. SO Tigurious for example could be well placed in order to try to stifle most powers coming into your lines.

No there is a limit...

Enemy psykers will then have a chance to block these powers if they are within 24″, and again, the mastery of the psyker will dictate how often they can block a power each turn.

 Whirlwind wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:


Potentially, but most factions will have psychers to unbind which just required matching their roll IIRC and I don't think there is a limit on how many spells you can unbind. SO Tigurious for example could be well placed in order to try to stifle most powers coming into your lines.

No there is a limit...

Enemy psykers will then have a chance to block these powers if they are within 24″, and again, the mastery of the psyker will dictate how often they can block a power each turn.

Thanks for the details! That seems more reasonable actually. Sp a higher level duder like Arhiman can block more then your average bloke which makes sense to me, while still having a limit against say, a whole grey knight army.

 Whirlwind wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:


Potentially, but most factions will have psychers to unbind which just required matching their roll IIRC and I don't think there is a limit on how many spells you can unbind. SO Tigurious for example could be well placed in order to try to stifle most powers coming into your lines.

No there is a limit...

Enemy psykers will then have a chance to block these powers if they are within 24″, and again, the mastery of the psyker will dictate how often they can block a power each turn.

Yes, and that also applies to units of Psykers.

So Tigurius might be able to cast and unbind 3 powers while a unit of Warlocks can only cast and unbind 1 or 2.

Don't expect craziness like units of Warlocks dishing out 5 or 6 powers a turn because there's 5 or 6 models in there.
Expect something like:

A Warlock Council can cast or attempt to unbind 2 powers. If the unit size is 5 or more, add +1 to their casting and unbind rolls.

 Jambles wrote:
The real big thing I'm hoping they clarify is whether or not we'll be rolling for our powers. I'd muchly prefer to pick them like wargear.

I'd like to know more about this as well. Having a set list of powers to choose from that are either individually costed or rolled into the psykers base cost would be my personal preference.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Yes, and that also applies to units of Psykers.

So Tigurius might be able to cast and unbind 3 powers while a unit of Warlocks can only cast and unbind 1 or 2.

Don't expect craziness like units of Warlocks dishing out 5 or 6 powers a turn because there's 5 or 6 models in there.
Expect something like:

A Warlock Council can cast or attempt to unbind 2 powers. If the unit size is 5 or more, add +1 to their casting and unbind rolls.

Of course thinking about it, Warlocks are allowed to join units of guardians so this becomes less of an issue - Small guardian caddie squads might become a thing. Still it will a big nerf to the lore of Warlocks if they basically become akin to a unit spellcaster (but can see why).

I like these changes. While I liked being able to spend dice to manage powers, it quickly became way too cumbersome for some armies. This is a nice middle ground. More granularity than passing a simple Ld check like in 6th, but less complexity than 7th. It allows for some powers to be powerful, but hard to get off, and easy powers to be much more reliable.

Mortal Wounds are also a welcome addition. d3 wounds is nothing compared to the levels of damage output from armies in 7th. But being able to have access to abilities than ignore armor saves is really useful and helps prevent ridiculous death stars and unkillable units. It really helps every army have resources to be able to face every other army on the battlefield.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Talizvar wrote:

 VeteranNoob wrote:
This edition can't come fast enough...

I hate to get all excited about these things but,
I could not agree with you more.

Thirded!

 rollawaythestone wrote:
I like these changes. While I liked being able to spend dice to manage powers, it quickly became way too cumbersome for some armies. This is a nice middle ground. More granularity than passing a simple Ld check like in 6th, but less complexity than 7th. It allows for some powers to be powerful, but hard to get off, and easy powers to be much more reliable.

Mortal Wounds are also a welcome addition. d3 wounds is nothing compared to the levels of damage output from armies in 7th. But being able to have access to abilities than ignore armor saves is really useful and helps prevent ridiculous death stars and unkillable units. It really helps every army have resources to be able to face every other army on the battlefield.

It's more the sniping capability that might be problematic for some units. You can easily hide a farseer so it can't be targeted. It's a not easy to hide Guillemot behind a unit of Marines or the tau commander behind the tau gunline etc.

Guilleman and other big-bads will have counters and will fear mortal wounds and heavy weapons like Lascannons. Sounds like a nice balancing mechanic to me. They also have tons of wounds, though, so it's not like a single Smite is going to kill your big-bad.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
Guilleman and other big-bads will have counters and will fear mortal wounds and heavy weapons like Lascannons. Sounds like a nice balancing mechanic to me. They also have tons of wounds, though, so it's not like a single Smite is going to kill your big-bad.

No but two good roles can (Guillemot has 9 wounds IIRC) and for those armies that can include multiple individual psykers like Eldar, Tyranids? etc it seems a powerful mechanic.

Anyway I've said my piece on this so won't go round the houses. Just stating it seems that for some armies even the Smite power looks quite powerful.

 Whirlwind wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
Guilleman and other big-bads will have counters and will fear mortal wounds and heavy weapons like Lascannons. Sounds like a nice balancing mechanic to me. They also have tons of wounds, though, so it's not like a single Smite is going to kill your big-bad.

No but two good roles can (Guillemot has 9 wounds IIRC) and for those armies that can include multiple individual psykers like Eldar, Tyranids? etc it seems a powerful mechanic.

Anyway I've said my piece on this so won't go round the houses. Just stating it seems that for some armies even the Smite power looks quite powerful.

The likelihood of rolling a 10 followed by a decent number twice is pretty slim though. If you do manage do it once, you can expect that your opponent wont give you another chance.
Remember that its only 18" range, which is not really a safe distance. Also, its nearest enemy; you can't choose your target. So the marine player can just put cannon fodder in front of Guilleman.

There's 3 deal breakers for me regarding 8th edition that were absolutely mind blowingly stupid regarding the AOS rules. Yes, I hate AOS.

1) No shooting at units in combat
2) Random turn sequence
3) Characters can't join units.

So far 2 outta 3 have been resolved and in my favour. I'm really worried that Characters can't join units. This is a huge deal breaker for me.

Does anyone have any info on this?