Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2017/04/28 18:29:01
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase
Poster on FB: I play Necrons and Tau and i always felt left out of the Pys phase. Like my hands are tied and my opponent is just having thier way. Sucks to not play part of the game.
Like · Reply · 2 · 2 hrs
Warhammer 40,000 That's what every other race feels when Necrons and Tau have their shooting phase... Like · Reply · 15 · 1 hr
BUUUUURN!
Jerry! Jerry! JERRY!
Seriously though, I do hope Tau gets some sort of defense at least. I know necrons will, because that's traditionally their deal, but Tau tend to have no answer to psy, right?
They have a great answer. it's called DYING.
More likely it's called "Not being in range".
The wording on Smite is pretty important:
Closest visible unit.
I think people are really overlooking this key point. As a CSM player I know the value of bubble wrap and waves of units. Feel free to smite my Flesh Hounds and Spawn, the real threats are charging right behind them and you can't smite them until the front lines are toasted.
2017/04/28 18:29:37
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase
rollawaythestone wrote: Guilleman and other big-bads will have counters and will fear mortal wounds and heavy weapons like Lascannons. Sounds like a nice balancing mechanic to me. They also have tons of wounds, though, so it's not like a single Smite is going to kill your big-bad.
No but two good roles can (Guillemot has 9 wounds IIRC) and for those armies that can include multiple individual psykers like Eldar, Tyranids? etc it seems a powerful mechanic.
Anyway I've said my piece on this so won't go round the houses. Just stating it seems that for some armies even the Smite power looks quite powerful.
I'm wondering what Railguns are going to look like with these weapon profiles. Maybe Broadside railguns might see a comeback if they actually become useful compared to the HYMP. That would be cool.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2017/04/28 18:31:50
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase
Just as a point of potential comparison, in the Disciples of Tzeentch Battletome for AoS, one of the spells that both daemons and Tzeentch mortals can take is Bolt of Tzeentch. It's a casting value of 8, that lets the caster inflict d6 mortal wounds on a visible enemy unit of the caster's choice within 18".
So, compared to Smite, it's a straight upgrade in terms of targeting (you get to pick the target instead of the somewhat-random targeting of Smite), and you get d6 mortal wounds on an 8 instead of an 11. However, Smite is still more likely to go off (5 versus 8). There's no guarantee that those are the kinds of faction-specific powers we'll see, but I wouldn't be surprised.
2017/04/28 18:34:06
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase
I'm fully expecting General's Handbook style "Rules of One". In other words, only one instance of each power may be attempted each turn... per army, not per psyker.
For those of you who don't play AoS, the three rules of one (paraphrased) are as follows...
1. Each spell can be attempted once per turn per army... not once per turn per wizard.
2. Rolls of 1 to hit, to wound and to save always fail.
3. Extra attacks generated by an effect can't, themselves, generate more extra attacks.
Check out my website. Editorials! Tutorials! Fun Times To Be Had! - kriswallminis.com
Brian888 wrote: Just as a point of potential comparison, in the Disciples of Tzeentch Battletome for AoS, one of the spells that both daemons and Tzeentch mortals can take is Bolt of Tzeentch. It's a casting value of 8, that lets the caster inflict d6 mortal wounds on a visible enemy unit of the caster's choice within 18".
So, compared to Smite, it's a straight upgrade in terms of targeting (you get to pick the target instead of the somewhat-random targeting of Smite), and you get d6 mortal wounds on an 8 instead of an 11. However, Smite is still more likely to go off (5 versus 8). There's no guarantee that those are the kinds of faction-specific powers we'll see, but I wouldn't be surprised.
Tzeentch will most assuredly has Bolt, Pink Fire, Blue Fire, and Treason. I doubt they would reinvent the wheel on the others either.
I am very keen to know if there will be buff/debuff spells that we can get some nice combos out of without being like a stupid invis-a-star. AoS lacks a general pool of spells like that - at least DoT got two lores with a couple handy buffs.
2017/04/29 02:36:18
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase
rollawaythestone wrote: Guilleman and other big-bads will have counters and will fear mortal wounds and heavy weapons like Lascannons. Sounds like a nice balancing mechanic to me. They also have tons of wounds, though, so it's not like a single Smite is going to kill your big-bad.
No but two good roles can (Guillemot has 9 wounds IIRC) and for those armies that can include multiple individual psykers like Eldar, Tyranids? etc it seems a powerful mechanic.
Anyway I've said my piece on this so won't go round the houses. Just stating it seems that for some armies even the Smite power looks quite powerful.
I'm wondering what Railguns are going to look like with these weapon profiles. Maybe Broadside railguns might see a comeback if they actually become useful compared to the HYMP. That would be cool.
I think almost certainly you'll see HYMP be a weapon to distribute single wounds amongst multiple models in a unit, whereas the railgun will be all about putting a lot of wounds on one target, so it will be a question of outfitting for roles rather than an outright better choice.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Kriswall wrote: I'm fully expecting General's Handbook style "Rules of One". In other words, only one instance of each power may be attempted each turn... per army, not per psyker.
For those of you who don't play AoS, the three rules of one (paraphrased) are as follows...
1. Each spell can be attempted once per turn per army... not once per turn per wizard.
2. Rolls of 1 to hit, to wound and to save always fail.
3. Extra attacks generated by an effect can't, themselves, generate more extra attacks.
Maybe. These spells are also affected by perils where AoS has no such mechanic. It could even be 'any roll of doubles when casting a spell for a subsequent time this turn causes Perils'.
I'm especially certain that we won't be limited, because of armies like Thousand Sons. There are just way more casters in that army than you would ever see in AoS.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/28 18:38:29
2017/04/28 18:39:41
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase
Kriswall wrote: I'm fully expecting General's Handbook style "Rules of One". In other words, only one instance of each power may be attempted each turn... per army, not per psyker.
For those of you who don't play AoS, the three rules of one (paraphrased) are as follows...
1. Each spell can be attempted once per turn per army... not once per turn per wizard.
2. Rolls of 1 to hit, to wound and to save always fail.
3. Extra attacks generated by an effect can't, themselves, generate more extra attacks.
This would be good. Great even. Might be a bit odd though given that there are whole armies of psykers in 40K. Don't like mortal wounds, since you only need them if high invulnerable saves with rerolls are a thing (otherwise why not have high rend values?), and I REALLY don't want them to be a thing. That said, works OK as long it is built into the lists in the right way.
2017/04/28 18:41:02
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase
So they dump 5 classic disciplines, instead give every army specific discipline (which fluff-wise only makes sense with Chaos, Orks and Nids) and dumb down Psy phase to AoS level...
- Have you dumbed down 40K?
- Not at all.
- Why should I trust you?
- You really shouldn't. Also we lied to your previous question.
"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."
Charles Darwin, first champion of Tzeench
2017/04/28 18:41:33
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase
Brian888 wrote: Just as a point of potential comparison, in the Disciples of Tzeentch Battletome for AoS, one of the spells that both daemons and Tzeentch mortals can take is Bolt of Tzeentch. It's a casting value of 8, that lets the caster inflict d6 mortal wounds on a visible enemy unit of the caster's choice within 18".
So, compared to Smite, it's a straight upgrade in terms of targeting (you get to pick the target instead of the somewhat-random targeting of Smite), and you get d6 mortal wounds on an 8 instead of an 11. However, Smite is still more likely to go off (5 versus 8). There's no guarantee that those are the kinds of faction-specific powers we'll see, but I wouldn't be surprised.
Tzeentch will most assuredly has Bolt, Pink Fire, Blue Fire, and Treason. I doubt they would reinvent the wheel on the others either.
I am very keen to know if there will be buff/debuff spells that we can get some nice combos out of without being like a stupid invis-a-star. AoS lacks a general pool of spells like that - at least DoT got two lores with a couple handy buffs.
I'll be shocked if the Sons don't get a Boon of Tzeentch-type power a la the Blue Scribes.
EDIT - Also, if they give Tzaangors in 40K the same Icon they get in AoS, I'll never, ever stop laughing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/28 18:45:43
2017/04/28 18:45:12
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase
rollawaythestone wrote: Guilleman and other big-bads will have counters and will fear mortal wounds and heavy weapons like Lascannons. Sounds like a nice balancing mechanic to me. They also have tons of wounds, though, so it's not like a single Smite is going to kill your big-bad.
No but two good roles can (Guillemot has 9 wounds IIRC) and for those armies that can include multiple individual psykers like Eldar, Tyranids? etc it seems a powerful mechanic.
Anyway I've said my piece on this so won't go round the houses. Just stating it seems that for some armies even the Smite power looks quite powerful.
I'm wondering what Railguns are going to look like with these weapon profiles. Maybe Broadside railguns might see a comeback if they actually become useful compared to the HYMP. That would be cool.
I would buy a new set of broadsides just for that. i think the rail guns look super bitching on them.
Mezmerro wrote: So they dump 5 classic disciplines, instead give every army specific discipline (which fluff-wise only makes sense with Chaos, Orks and Nids) and dumb down Psy phase to AoS level...
- Have you dumbed down 40K?
- Not at all.
- Why should I trust you?
- You really shouldn't. Also we lied to your previous question.
Army specific powers have been in the game longer than BRB powers, no?
But I suppose it is time to get mad again.
2017/04/28 18:47:24
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase
Mezmerro wrote: So they dump 5 classic disciplines, instead give every army specific discipline (which fluff-wise only makes sense with Chaos, Orks and Nids) and dumb down Psy phase to AoS level...
- Have you dumbed down 40K? - Not at all. - Why should I trust you? - You really shouldn't. Also we lied to your previous question.
oh please we all know most people only ever took 1 or 2 disciplines ever.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/28 18:47:47
Mezmerro wrote: So they dump 5 classic disciplines, instead give every army specific discipline (which fluff-wise only makes sense with Chaos, Orks and Nids) and dumb down Psy phase to AoS level...
- Have you dumbed down 40K?
- Not at all.
- Why should I trust you?
- You really shouldn't. Also we lied to your previous question.
I can get mad about anything, too, if I base my reality on my personal interpretations of what words mean and whether or not things fit my worldview! REEEEEEEEEEEE!
Even with incomplete information. Double REEEEEEEEEE!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/28 18:48:49
2017/04/28 18:49:33
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase
zamerion wrote: In faeit are speaking about some interesting things..
To save people giving them clicks, since it is largely clickbait
Spoiler:
PENDING 40k Rumors - Apr 2017
via Sources on Faeit 212
Starter Set
The starter set goes live the 17th and is going to be Death Guard Vs. Ultramarines, $120 box. Chaos gets a blob of cultists, a few terminators, a few plague marines, a lord, and drones. Loyalists get 2 tactical squads, a devastator, an assault squad, plus a librarian and a captain. Comes with dice and rulers as well.
In addition, there will be the standard soft cover core rules booklet and a small campaign book. The campaign book has the stats for all the dudes in the box, plus a series of narrative missions that set up the ground floor for the first real story arc of the new edition.
Codex
AoS was very much a test kitchen for what to expect of the “New Warhammer 40k”. AoS had a rocky start, but they learned from their mistakes, and recently even AoS has surpassed 40k in some regards.
The battle tome will become the template for the codex, not the other way around. Each dex will get the special army wide rules, 6-12 relics, 6 warlord traits, and 6 psychic powers, only now it’s written that you can chose to ether select or roll on warlord/psychic charts. It will also contain full rules and points for all the old and new units in a given army, and special rules for things like warbands, campaigns, narrative missions and the like.
Formations are back, but they cost points now, and so are decurons, but they will be a lot more flexible and take cues from their AoS counterparts.
Overview
6th and 7th edition suffered from growing pains and an identity crisis. GW spent a good amount of time and money figuring out what they want 8th edition to really feel like, and are using what they learned in 40k 6th-7th edition and AoS V1.0-1.2 to rebuild 40k from the ground up. They want new players to feel less intimidated by the dense lore and setting, but want to keep returning players invested in the storyline. Black library is going to do a soft reboot for some of the new 40k lore books, with a gimmicky “New Warhammer” type flagship launch to, as I said before, laydown a ground floor for the upcoming 8th edition.
June 10th launch, they’re going to drip feed us rumors for the rest of May. Expect to see full Space Marine datasheets sometime around the end of next week, with a couple of fluff pieces talking about how the galaxy got ripped in half and how all the marines got taller.
For those of you who are saving your pennies, here’s what the launch schedule looked like so far.
About 1-2 weeks beforehand all 7th edition exclusive products are being pulled from stores for good. Codex’s, Rulebooks, Dark Vengeance, not the new campaign books such as Gathering Storm sense those are still fluff pieces, but expect those to become much harder to find.
Than on day 1: 5 new, free soft cover/PDFs launch with all the core 8th edition rules.
They are:
The Rules: Containing your prophesized 12 pages of core rules, plus outlines for open play and the 14 universal FoC, ranging from 1 HQ and 1 Troop choice 1 command point allies to massive 20+ slot charts that grants a fist full of command. The new force org charts are pitched as a great way customize your army, one of them is a big guns esqu 1 troop/HQ 5+ Heavy support, but really they’re just designed to scale command points to game size.
A few of the wilder ones, such as the aforementioned big guns list, have restrictions and special rules that might sway player one way or the other in terms of army composition, but the more well-rounded ones grant the most command points (which are such a big deal. I cannot stress this enough, proper use of command points can make or break strategies), and the real meat and potato special rules granting armies are going to be built from the FoC structures found in your army codex, once they bring those back.
The free PDF version of the following books will be sectioned up amongst
faction lines, but the paper ones are going to be the mashups listed below.
Armies of the Imperium: Exactly what it says on the cover, a splash of lore
and datasheets for every imperial unit in the game.
Armies of chaos: The spiky version of the above.
Armies of Xenos: Split up among proper faction lines (Eldar, Tau, Necron, Nids), and containing datasheets and rules for the rest.
A galaxy in flames: Art and fluff book. Brings everyone up to speed on the setting, pushing the story forward by a few weeks and setting up the opening of a AoS style narrative campaign.
DO NOT READ BELOW IF YOU DO NOT WANT SPOILERS
Seriously though, who is not going to want spoilers.
Spoilers: the “official” story is something about Guilliman’s gene seed,
but it’s heavily hinted at that there’s some kind of tech heresy at play
and Mars is having a mini end times of their own. And some of the new
imperial units are going to be new, like honest to goodness, we swear they
didn’t fish these out of a closet, someone just invented these new.
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
2017/04/28 18:50:58
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase
Mezmerro wrote: So they dump 5 classic disciplines, instead give every army specific discipline (which fluff-wise only makes sense with Chaos, Orks and Nids) and dumb down Psy phase to AoS level...
- Have you dumbed down 40K?
- Not at all.
- Why should I trust you?
- You really shouldn't. Also we lied to your previous question.
If by "classic' you mean "was only introduced in 6th ed, and just added bloat to an already bloated rule set" sure, classic.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/28 18:51:16
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2017/04/28 18:51:07
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase
Mezmerro wrote: So they dump 5 classic disciplines, instead give every army specific discipline (which fluff-wise only makes sense with Chaos, Orks and Nids) and dumb down Psy phase to AoS level...
- Have you dumbed down 40K?
- Not at all.
- Why should I trust you?
- You really shouldn't. Also we lied to your previous question.
I see this as the opposite, BRB powers lead to dumbing down of the game, when every army ends up with the same powers. it also leads to balance issues. Why fluff wise does it not make sense to have army specific disciplines for things like Marines or Eldar?
2017/04/28 18:55:04
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase
Requizen wrote: Army specific powers have been in the game longer than BRB powers, no?
Yes, and I actually was quite happy when they cut them off and added one set of five disciplines from the actual lore, because it really make no sense for Ultramarine Librarian, Blood Angel Librarian and IG Primaris Psyker to have different power pools when in the fluff they all learn from the five classic disciplines. I wasn't happy with those powers being generated randomly though, as it makes even less sense fluff-wise and takes from immersion and "forging the narrative". When they started pulling bs disciplines (superior to the classic 5) out of thin air it was all the way back to old unfluffy ways, only now with shizo crunch on top.
What I'd like is for all but Orks and Nids to buy powers from the classic disciplines with some bonuses for specializing in one discipline, and select few armies having their own disciplines.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/28 18:56:34
"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."
Charles Darwin, first champion of Tzeench
2017/04/28 18:55:21
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase
Brian888 wrote: Just as a point of potential comparison, in the Disciples of Tzeentch Battletome for AoS, one of the spells that both daemons and Tzeentch mortals can take is Bolt of Tzeentch. It's a casting value of 8, that lets the caster inflict d6 mortal wounds on a visible enemy unit of the caster's choice within 18".
So, compared to Smite, it's a straight upgrade in terms of targeting (you get to pick the target instead of the somewhat-random targeting of Smite), and you get d6 mortal wounds on an 8 instead of an 11. However, Smite is still more likely to go off (5 versus 8). There's no guarantee that those are the kinds of faction-specific powers we'll see, but I wouldn't be surprised.
13.89% chance at rolling an 8 on 2d6, hardly game busting IMHO.
Brian888 wrote: Just as a point of potential comparison, in the Disciples of Tzeentch Battletome for AoS, one of the spells that both daemons and Tzeentch mortals can take is Bolt of Tzeentch. It's a casting value of 8, that lets the caster inflict d6 mortal wounds on a visible enemy unit of the caster's choice within 18".
So, compared to Smite, it's a straight upgrade in terms of targeting (you get to pick the target instead of the somewhat-random targeting of Smite), and you get d6 mortal wounds on an 8 instead of an 11. However, Smite is still more likely to go off (5 versus 8). There's no guarantee that those are the kinds of faction-specific powers we'll see, but I wouldn't be surprised.
13.89% chance at rolling an 8 on 2d6, hardly game busting IMHO.
Disciples of Tzeentch have a boatload of ways of boosting their casting rolls. Five gets you ten that Tzeentch daemons and Thousand Sons in 40K will have similar methods.
2017/04/28 18:58:45
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase
Yeah. Thats a NICE starter if true. Also, everyone is giving different dates for this release. Makes me really skeptical about all the release date speculation going on. I find it kind of unlikely they will string us along for all of May and lose a month's worth of sales.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/28 18:59:09
Mezmerro wrote: So they dump 5 classic disciplines, instead give every army specific discipline (which fluff-wise only makes sense with Chaos, Orks and Nids) and dumb down Psy phase to AoS level...
- Have you dumbed down 40K?
- Not at all.
- Why should I trust you?
- You really shouldn't. Also we lied to your previous question.
Classic?! mate they have been out 5 years of 30, hardly classic, especially when they altered them for 4 of those 5.
Brian888 wrote: Just as a point of potential comparison, in the Disciples of Tzeentch Battletome for AoS, one of the spells that both daemons and Tzeentch mortals can take is Bolt of Tzeentch. It's a casting value of 8, that lets the caster inflict d6 mortal wounds on a visible enemy unit of the caster's choice within 18".
So, compared to Smite, it's a straight upgrade in terms of targeting (you get to pick the target instead of the somewhat-random targeting of Smite), and you get d6 mortal wounds on an 8 instead of an 11. However, Smite is still more likely to go off (5 versus 8). There's no guarantee that those are the kinds of faction-specific powers we'll see, but I wouldn't be surprised.
13.89% chance at rolling an 8 on 2d6, hardly game busting IMHO.
Err, well, 8+ is everything 8 and above... so 42%.
2017/04/28 19:02:49
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase
Natfka on Faeit 212 - Total rumors: (423 TRUE) / (860 FALSE) / (78 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE) - Updated 4/28/2017
Just saying...
You have better odds guessing yourself.
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
~4100
~1660
mate they have been out 5 years of 30, hardly classic, especially when they altered them for 4 of those 5.