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RULE #1 and RULE #2 - Mandatory!

And if followed, will keep all threads doing well enough.

IF you see posts that break any of the rules of the site, just report them.

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Don't do any armchair Moderating.

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 insaniak wrote:
Yup, challenges are one of those 6th ed additions that were cool in theory but ridiculously badly executed. Won't be at all sorry to set them go.

agreed, great in concept, poorly executed. Would love for them to be re-imagined.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
RULE #1 and RULE #2 - Mandatory!

And if followed, will keep all threads doing well enough.

IF you see posts that break any of the rules of the site, just report them.

Don't 'fight fire with fire'.

Don't do any armchair Moderating.

Don't drag threads farther off topic by commenting about how off topic they are.

sorry :(

Fragile wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
The game needs overwatch. It makes a lot of sense, and it's one of the few rules that I support 100%.

Yes, if you're getting charged, and drawing your sword, you're obviously hurried and maybe even panicked, but getting a pistol shot off, with a negative modifier, is very fair and reasonable in my book.

Even if charged from the flank or rear, troops in a lose formation can turn instantly and still fire. If you were packed into a 17th century style formation, I could see the argument against allowing overwatch if charged, but loose military formations, like in 40k, should have overwatch, and hopefully 360 degree line of sight is still there.

I would agree with this IF overwatch only allowed pistols to be fired. But with the full force of the weapons, it makes too much of a penalty for CC units to charge.

The hate on Overwatch needs to stop. It didn't affect t-shirt armies like Orks and Dark Elder most of the time and Wall Of Death kills 1 Ork or Wych on average per flamer.

Also the Pistol only being able to do it makes much less sense than a Rapid Fire weapon where you'd be spraying everywhere trying to hit your target.

I wish they would stop calling it overwatch! Overwatch was a 2nd edition rule that allowed a unit to forgo its complete turn in effort to shoot at an enemy when the opportunity presented its self during the enemy's turn. The only sensible way to use overwatch per its intended meaning ( if they are not going to use it like the originally did) would be to allow a friendly unit supportive fire to a unit being charged not the unit its self. That would be a mess to work in to the rules I am sure, call it defensive fire cal lit panic fire but Christ stop calling it overwatch. Sorry for the rant, just hate that they called it overwatch.

Exactly, over watch used to simply be spending your action in your opponents turn rather then your own, sort of like interceptor. Current overwatch doesn't belong in a game where IGOUGO. My models sitting there while you move and fire in your turn represents the actions you took before I charged you, makes no sense that I have to sit there and eat your shooting, then eat more of it in my turn. The hole thing is an abstraction, nobody is just sitting there letting the enemy charge in, your own turn represents the actions you took prior to the assault.

I agree it is far from perfect, but the only way you make a balanced game based on IGOUGO is when I go and only I go, then your go and only you go. It;s the same reason why the most broken faction in the history of GW rules was the Ynarri.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Exactly, over watch used to simply be spending your action in your opponents turn rather then your own, sort of like interceptor. Current overwatch doesn't belong in a game where IGOUGO. My models sitting there while you move and fire in your turn represents the actions you took before I charged you, makes no sense that I have to sit there and eat your shooting, then eat more of it in my turn. The hole thing is an abstraction, nobody is just sitting there letting the enemy charge in, your own turn represents the actions you took prior to the assault.

I agree it is far from perfect, but the only way you make a balanced game based on IGOUGO is when I go and only I go, then your go and only you go. It;s the same reason why the most broken faction in the history of GW rules was the Ynarri.

Yeah, as excited as I was at the return of a reaction mechanic in 6th Edition, it just wasn't implemented well at all. I love reaction mechanics, but they definitely need a limitation of some kind to reduce their frequency lest they bog the game down. By not really having to sacrifice anything to perform Overwatch in 6th (not even a unit's turn like it was in 2nd) you basically just made more rolling occur.

I wouldn't mind some kind of limited (Command Points?) reaction mechanic in 8th. Spend a CP, give up a unit's turn so they can fire on in the enemy's movement phase (but do so at the classic -1 to hit).

The issue with OW in 2nd was that in objectiveless play (or basically anything where killing was more important than holding terrain) no one had any reason to make the first move if they didn't have to. Terrain could allow folks to get in close, but once the firefight broke out there wasn't a lot of reason to make the first move when you could wait (outside of a few certain army builds where the OW penalty would make them impossible to hit). With Command Points around, you can give OW a proper opportunity cost that it lacked in 2nd Edition leading to it not being a go to if a unit has nothing better to do on its own turn.

Either way, it will be interesting to see whether or not some kind of reaction mechanic is implemented. They've already made assault a lot more involved on both sides of the table, and CPs are already poised to keep folks invested in their opponent's turn, so it might be a natural extension of that. But it wont be horrible if they don't include it either. Proper OW hasn't been in the game for nearly 20 years at this point.

Have they stated if Daemons will be the same in both editions?

Or do we expect different rules again for the same models?

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Have they stated if Daemons will be the same in both editions?

Or do we expect different rules again for the same models?

Both editions of what?

Based on the WD summary under the pre order for the magazine i'd say aside from maybe a a vague image or sneaky preview there won't be squat in it. The magazine might just cover everything released and shown up until now. Which may mean no leaks for a lil while, and gw is going to drip spoon feed us stuff for the next several weeks. Well hopefully I end up being wrong.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Have they stated if Daemons will be the same in both editions?

Or do we expect different rules again for the same models?

Both editions of what?

AOS vs. 40K

Davou I cant quote snip right now, I'll try to make it clear.

The first point is that I rarely get tied up in CC, because of low number of Guardsmen in my squads, they either die (very very comon) or have to roll double ones to stay in (not true during 6th, as they had stubborn). Furthermore, I'd be suprised if I charged more than 20 times, between getting charged myself or rapid fire weapons, there's not point in doing it. Regardless, I'd much rather my guys get swept or die so the arty can put a blast or three on what killed them.

Is there any indication of what the commands are going to do? I already blasts will be gone and it's a safe bet that what makes the two workhorses of the armies good (AP 3) is going to be made worse. These are also elements of my armies that I like, and I am sad they are going away.

All in all I don't like the changes made so far and how they affect my armies.

I was thinking of a way they could have included challenges, and made it not so time consuming. Charge as normal. If a challenge is declared and accepted, then the first wound caused by a character must be taken on the opposite character. That shouldn't slow the game down too much.

Are they doing another Q&A?

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Have they stated if Daemons will be the same in both editions?

Or do we expect different rules again for the same models?

Both editions of what?

AOS vs. 40K

They are still completely different games. How or why would they have the same rules? 40K isn't going to be a carbon copy of AoS.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I was thinking of a way they could have included challenges, and made it not so time consuming. Charge as normal. If a challenge is declared and accepted, then the first wound caused by a character must be taken on the opposite character. That shouldn't slow the game down too much.

The best way to make challenges less time consuming is to remove them. It's a pretty terrible mechanic given all "honorable combat" is stupid in the 40k universe.

 Vash108 wrote:
Are they doing another Q&A?

They said they would for friday, which obviously didn't happen, my guess is that was a bit ambitious. I am betting next week they will release another FAQ or do another Q&A.

 Kirasu wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
I was thinking of a way they could have included challenges, and made it not so time consuming. Charge as normal. If a challenge is declared and accepted, then the first wound caused by a character must be taken on the opposite character. That shouldn't slow the game down too much.

The best way to make challenges less time consuming is to remove them. It's a pretty terrible mechanic given all "honorable combat" is stupid in the 40k universe.

some of the best moments in the fluff is champions going against each other in one on one combat. But sorry, I am off topic; I will cease

 Bobthehero wrote:
Davou I cant quote snip right now, I'll try to make it clear.

The first point is that I rarely get tied up in CC, because of low number of Guardsmen in my squads, they either die (very very comon) or have to roll double ones to stay in (not true during 6th, as they had stubborn). Furthermore, I'd be suprised if I charged more than 20 times, between getting charged myself or rapid fire weapons, there's not point in doing it. Regardless, I'd much rather my guys get swept or die so the arty can put a blast or three on what killed them.

Is there any indication of what the commands are going to do? I already blasts will be gone and it's a safe bet that what makes the two workhorses of the armies good (AP 3) is going to be made worse. These are also elements of my armies that I like, and I am sad they are going away.

All in all I don't like the changes made so far and how they affect my armies.

We have seen how high strength, low ap, and templates style weapons work so far.

A Lehman Russ battle tank could very well hit automatically 1-2d6 Times causing 1d3 wounds to each person hit with a -2 to their save as a modifier. How could you possibly see that as something negative? Even on the low end of extrapolating the stat line you could while out a small pile of guys or take most of a monstrous creature out in every shot...

Most of the discussion is about the rules and what people think about them, but how about a release date and how far of it might be?

Simply put, i'm looking forward to a new edition, using my models with new rules, - kinda a new game -, great!

But if they really are going to use the whole month of may to feed us bits of rules then I'm afraid I'm gonna get fed up with it and loose my interest. To be honest I'm already getting tired of viewing new rules bit by bit without being able to play the game.

They are loosing my interest with this way of releasing a new edition and I was wondering how others feel about it.

MorglumNecksnapper wrote:

Most of the discussion is about the rules and what people think about them, but how about a release date and how far of it might be?

Simply put, i'm looking forward to a new edition, using my models with new rules, - kinda a new game -, great!

But if they really are going to use the whole month of may to feed us bits of rules then I'm afraid I'm gonna get fed up with it and loose my interest. To be honest I'm already getting tired of viewing new rules bit by bit without being able to play the game.

They are loosing my interest with this way of releasing a new edition and I was wondering how others feel about it.

I am hyped, and I am glad we are getting releases every day. It gives me something to look forward to and time to digest it, plus it allows for discussion for each aspect as it is released. Much better than having it dumped in our laps all at once.

If you are getting over the dribs and drabs, just stay away until it is released.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
plus 10th of June is only a spit away

MorglumNecksnapper wrote:

Most of the discussion is about the rules and what people think about them, but how about a release date and how far of it might be?

Simply put, i'm looking forward to a new edition, using my models with new rules, - kinda a new game -, great!

But if they really are going to use the whole month of may to feed us bits of rules then I'm afraid I'm gonna get fed up with it and loose my interest. To be honest I'm already getting tired of viewing new rules bit by bit without being able to play the game.

They are loosing my interest with this way of releasing a new edition and I was wondering how others feel about it.

The June release is too late with the preview a mechanism every day theme. They will do preview even on weekends that not even MtG don't do. So they have limited time to show us things.

The worst part of overwatch imho was killing the front couple of models and vastly stretching the charge distance. Often this caused the charge to fail, and the unit just sits there and dies. Overwatch has killed more of my units this way than cc ever did. Hopefully 8e will fix this.

 JimOnMars wrote:
The worst part of overwatch imho was killing the front couple of models and vastly stretching the charge distance. Often this caused the charge to fail, and the unit just sits there and dies. Overwatch has killed more of my units this way than cc ever did. Hopefully 8e will fix this.

Overwatch will most surely be removed as an army wide rule and just added to a select few (or not so few) warscrolls - fire warriors for example.

 Vash108 wrote:
Are they doing another Q&A?

Yes, but no confirmed date/time

 JimOnMars wrote:
The worst part of overwatch imho was killing the front couple of models and vastly stretching the charge distance. Often this caused the charge to fail, and the unit just sits there and dies. Overwatch has killed more of my units this way than cc ever did. Hopefully 8e will fix this.

Exactly. Like a squad of Khorne Berserkers or Death Company are going to be like "They got Dan and Bill! Let's go back!".

Saw this comment on 4chan
Space Marines "rebelling under Guilliman because the Imperium has rejected the Emperor's vision, confirmed in Thursday's twitch stream"

Can anyone confirm, or troll post?

 Rippy wrote:
Saw this comment on 4chan
Space Marines "rebelling under Guilliman because the Imperium has rejected the Emperor's vision, confirmed in Thursday's twitch stream"

Can anyone confirm, or troll post?

I don't know but that would sound badass. It would also create a new level of the imperium for the story, both loyal, yet both wanting to destroy the other.

Eh 4chan is not all that reliable. Could have just been wish listing.

 Rippy wrote:
Saw this comment on 4chan
Space Marines "rebelling under Guilliman because the Imperium has rejected the Emperor's vision, confirmed in Thursday's twitch stream"

Can anyone confirm, or troll post?

Troll post. Gulliman leads the IoM now. why would he be leading a rebellion?

my B'day is June 4... needs to be released before D=