Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 lindsay40k wrote:
Pretty sure challenges predate 6ed? I agree that they are great fun, maining CSMs means they're quite dear to me

Not in 40k. Maybe in 2nd ed (dunno, never played it), but they weren't around in 4th and 5th.

Not in 2nd either.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Bye

I don't know what's worse, that a lot of you can't seem to understand why these changes would annoy people, or that you seem so fething gleeful at the idea of people being annoyed at this.

Some people are incapable of seeing other's viewpoints, and giddy that others get hurt because that means they win. See - "LIBRUL TEARS LOL"

Some people can't see past the end of their own nose either, and complain because it negatively impacts them, even if overall it's a change for the better.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Challenges led to things like Power Fists on Characters being very rare. Especially in the case of Sergeants. Perhaps hitting first on the charge might bring them back though. Not that it is going to matter. My Assault Squad will be left like sitting ducks when a Squad of Fire Warriors backs out of combat and opens me up to shooting again. Bye bye Assault Squad. CC might have been subpar in 7E, but at least I could tie up shooty units for a couple turns.

I am curious if anything will be done to give armies with no psychic powers the ability to do anything in the Psychic Phase.

If you charged with a lone assault unit to a Fire Warrior Squad with support from other units then the fault of that is in your part. I'm not saying that shooting isn't gonna dominate 8th edition. I'm pretty sure it will, but I don't think CC will suck as bad as 7th, at least, not only because now units can retreat from combat. The unit that retreat can't attack in the same turn, so if they are alone, retreathing is basically useless.

As other posters said, this will favour assaults armis with many units that can assault at the same time, and will punish death-star assault units that just jump from combat to combat to avoid being destroyed by the enemy shooting.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Some people can't see past the end of their own nose either, and complain because it negatively impacts them, even if overall it's a change for the better.

Oh, internet (And real life too) is so full of this. I'm a Tau player and I'm crying to GW to make CC viable again and nerf the OP things of my army and just make other units viable to use! (Vespids... our time will come!)

Going by the new boltgun stats, pulse weaponary probably won't have an AP either. So Tau shooting might be brought under control.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Going by the new boltgun stats, pulse weaponry probably won't have an AP either. So Tau shooting might be brought under control.

What is a pulse weaponry? I haven't put a Fire Warrior on the table since like November.

I am so looking forward to HYMP being taken down a notch - and Railguns being potentially more valuable because of d6 wounds like Lascannons.

 Verviedi wrote:
What is a pulse weaponry? I haven't put a Fire Warrior on the table since like November.

Pulse rifles, pulse carbines, burst cannons, things like that.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Going by the new boltgun stats, pulse weaponary probably won't have an AP either. So Tau shooting might be brought under control.

Since when were complaints about Tau shooting about pulse weapons? Nobody complained about Tau pulse rifles or Burst Cannons rendering armies obsolete when Tau had their 4th ed codex (at least in 5th/6th), those complaints started up when the Ion-Riptide and HYMP Broadsides arrived on the scene.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Depends, theres certain posters that dont appear to have liked anything GW has done or will ever do.

That's what the Ignore button is for. It makes the internet a more tolerable place.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Bye

I don't know what's worse, that a lot of you can't seem to understand why these changes would annoy people, or that you seem so fething gleeful at the idea of people being annoyed at this.

I'm not happy that anyone is leaving, and I do understand why people find it annoying.

But when you come into a thread and post "I HATE THE THING I'M LEAVING", I'm not really sure how to respond. Saying goodbye is usually the polite thing to do.

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
What is a pulse weaponry? I haven't put a Fire Warrior on the table since like November.

Pulse rifles, pulse carbines, burst cannons, things like that.

I'm joking, because I run pure suits.

I am going to echo quite a few posts here but I wanted to throw my support behind what we have seen of the 8th edition rules.

My gaming group has been playing 40k now for 25 years, started with Rogue Trader and have played every edition since. We have every army and every model combination possible. We have enjoyed each edition. We love 40k but have become sad that it just does not work as a game system any more.

40k was just becoming too hard to play.

We understood the power variation inherent within the codex system and our games always had a conversation that went something like this; "What power level are we playing, high, medium or low?" We'd end up with an agreement, turn up to play, take a look at the other army and know that we hadn't gotten the power level right. Or we'd run a narrative game where one of us would spend hours building lists, stories and game objectives just so we could be sure we were going to get a balanced fun and full game. Games that are over by turn two simply meant that one of us did not have a good experience.

Good fun, yet competitive, gaming experiences are what we seek.

We all faced the issue that we couldn't play what we wanted simply because of inherent design flaws. I have a beautiful Ork Speed Freak army I'd love to play but loading up boys in trukks only to watch a single 33 point scatter laser eldar jet bike explode it and kill 200 points of boyz and vehicle due to rules which inherently punish my choice is not a good gaming experience or even good game design. A friend has a massive Tyranid army but cant play the horde army he wants because he has to painstakingly make sure that there's 2" between models just so templates dont destroy his army. Again here the game design heavily impacted on the game experience. Yes he should be taking off handfuls of models due to lots of bullets but not at the expense of the actual experience of moving models around in a manner that added literally hours to the game.

I could go on but I hope you are understanding what I am saying.

40k is broken, only a complete reboot can fix it. It needs to be faster, simpler, more abstract, less open to abuse, more model and army inclusive, and finally a good fun gaming experience.

I understand the change anxiety people will be going through. It is a normal part of growth as a human being.

TLDR: I look forward to 8th ed because it is not 3-7th ed.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Sector-Mechanicum-Galvanic-Servohaulers-2017

Civilian vehicles and accessories, as well as new plastic bases to fit the shadow wars terrain.

I can't wait to see the conversions these inspire.

 Verviedi wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
What is a pulse weaponry? I haven't put a Fire Warrior on the table since like November.

Pulse rifles, pulse carbines, burst cannons, things like that.

I'm joking, because I run pure suits.

Opps, my bad.

 nicromancer wrote:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Sector-Mechanicum-Galvanic-Servohaulers-2017

Civilian vehicles and accessories, as well as new plastic bases to fit the shadow wars terrain.

I can't wait to see the conversions these inspire.

Beautiful. My dream board now features a Mechanicus mining crawler using that.

So... no challenge in CC?

O.o

So, the "hidden powerclaw" can be a thing again?

 nicromancer wrote:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Sector-Mechanicum-Galvanic-Servohaulers-2017

Civilian vehicles and accessories, as well as new plastic bases to fit the shadow wars terrain.

I can't wait to see the conversions these inspire.

The terrain is covered in this THREAD.

 Imateria wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I don't like the mortal wounds ignoring invulnerable save.
Also why don't the flamethrower make mortal wound? Do the melta make mortal wounds?

Why would a bog standard flamer cause Mortal Wounds?

Alright, only Sororitas flamers then.

 Lockark wrote:
Their realy wouldn't be any reason for the rule to effect flame throwers in the end, when all flame thrower hits already auto-hits.

How am I going to kill titans with flamethrowers if they don't do mortal wounds?

 Alpharius wrote:
This thread isn't really for links to eBay auctions, YouTube Videos of Armies being burnt at the stake, etc.

Thanks!

Why do you hate fun, Alpharius.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't know what's worse, that a lot of you can't seem to understand why these changes would annoy people, or that you seem so fething gleeful at the idea of people being annoyed at this.

Someone just got run over by a HUGE Karma Truck and I'm loving it .
Live by the sword and all that.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
The game needs overwatch. It makes a lot of sense, and it's one of the few rules that I support 100%.

Yes, if you're getting charged, and drawing your sword, you're obviously hurried and maybe even panicked, but getting a pistol shot off, with a negative modifier, is very fair and reasonable in my book.

Even if charged from the flank or rear, troops in a lose formation can turn instantly and still fire. If you were packed into a 17th century style formation, I could see the argument against allowing overwatch if charged, but loose military formations, like in 40k, should have overwatch, and hopefully 360 degree line of sight is still there.

I would agree with this IF overwatch only allowed pistols to be fired. But with the full force of the weapons, it makes too much of a penalty for CC units to charge.

Why on earth would you be wanting to use flamers to take down Titans??

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Going by the new boltgun stats, pulse weaponary probably won't have an AP either. So Tau shooting might be brought under control.

Pulse weaponry has been a main-stay of the Tau army since their inception. Literally every pure-Tau unit (i.e. not kroot/vespids) has access to some version of S5/AP5. Burst cannons can be taken on every jet-pack suit, as well as all our vehicles, SMS can be taken on our tanks/transports and various suits. Gun Drones have pulse carbines. This was never an issue. No one cares about AP5 shooting. The units not getting saves from pulse weapons weren't getting saves from any other basic infantry weapon in the game either. 72" range S8 AP2 pie plates that ignore cover on a platform that is functionally immortal is an issue. Swarms of S7 missiles glancing everything but LRs to death is an issue. S7 shooting from a unit that, unless playing against other Tau, or an army that has some way to ignore cover, has a 2++ against any shooting that happens more than 12" away and can be taken in a formation that allows you to hit rear armor because 'reasons', is an issue.

You can drop my pulse weaponry to S1 AP6, and it wouldn't affect me in the slightest, nor would it impact at all, any opponent I have.

 Inquisitor Kallus wrote:

Why on earth would you be wanting to use flamers to take down Titans??

Because a Fist can kill one with a punch!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Someone just got run over by a HUGE Karma Truck and I'm loving it .
Live by the sword and all that.

That's not what karma is Hybrid. And who said I was talking about me anyway?

Glass houses and all that.

Fragile wrote:
I would agree with this IF overwatch only allowed pistols to be fired.

How does that make any sense though? A line of rifles just sit still whilst Mr. Sergeant blazes away? And for guys that don't have pistols in their basic units (Tau, Guard, etc.). They just have to sit there and take it.

I really liked the way they worked Overwatch back into 40K. It wasn't perfect, but it was far better than the old days of 2nd Ed. I don't see why making it revolve around pistols makes any sense.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Someone just got run over by a HUGE Karma Truck and I'm loving it .
Live by the sword and all that.

That's not what karma is Hybrid. And who said I was talking about me anyway?

Glass houses and all that.

Fragile wrote:
I would agree with this IF overwatch only allowed pistols to be fired.

How does that make any sense though? A line of rifles just sit still whilst Mr. Sergeant blazes away? And for guys that don't have pistols in their basic units (Tau, Guard, etc.). They just have to sit there and take it.

I really liked the way they worked Overwatch back into 40K. It wasn't perfect, but it was far better than the old days of 2nd Ed. I don't see why making it revolve around pistols makes any sense.

I think you get the record for most consistent forum-er on dakka. Death, taxes, and H.B.M.C. hating stuff GW puts out.

ERJAK wrote:
I think you get the record for most consistent forum-er on dakka. Death, taxes, and H.B.M.C. hating stuff GW puts out.

ARE YOU FETHING KIDDING ME???

What in God's name has any of what you said above got to do with ANYTHING you quoted?

And did you not read a post of mine on the last page of this thread?:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah, just it was sarcasm/vitriol when I said how much I love the new industrial terrain, or how it was sarcasm/vitriol when I said how much I like the new Skydorfs, or how it was sarcasm/vitriol when I though all the AoS Tzeentch stuff was awesome, or how it was... and so on and so forth.

I operate on a very simple credit where credit's due system. I don't just hate everything GW does, and my posts clearly reflect that. Maybe if you people fething read them from time to time, rather than assuming, then you'd get that.

Jesus Christ...

 Bobthehero wrote:
That rarely, if ever happened, I have at best 10 guardsmen with WS4 and Carapace armor, having them in CC means they usually died on the charge.

Now imagine if that happened when YOU charged someone? There are armies out there with the same toughness, access to no leadership modifications, same weapon skill and no armor whatsoever, that depended on getting across the table on foot. Whether something barely ever happens (which is a lie btw, because I can distinctly recall doing it to you as well as seeing demons and berserkers do it as well ) is a moot point. Its a change for the better, and here you're trying to spin in negatively quite literally because it "rarely happens to you"

 Bobthehero wrote:
See above, I used to joke around that Kriegsmen never, break, they die, because I so rarely had to make LD in CC because they would get wiped out the second they entered CC

See my repsonce to the last quote; this is a positive change for you included... But there are people who have had to deal with LD 7 and worse for three edditions of this game now, with no access to bubbles to modify LD.

 Bobthehero wrote:

Between fearless VS shooting and the Quartermaster FNP, I've always been happy with my HWT, people had to wipe them all out instead of relying on low LD to break, but there was always the threat of artillery to take away most S6+ shooting. So between the Aegis and the FNP, others would a bit more firepower than what they'd normally use for run of the mill HWT.

Its not possible to make an informed argument suggesting that all types of heavy weapons are equally good. There are some options for weapons that are just not worth considering taking, on tanks and in heavy weapons teams. Despite how well you liked how the HWT perform the fact is that there are plenty of examples in this game of something just outright not being worth taking. Missile launchers for space marines, deffrollas for orks, and I'm sure anyone can point to at least three things their army has access to that arent worth spending points on. The fact that you can buy FNP and fearless and get orders and whatnot again, makes me want to accuse you of having no sympathy to improvements to this game unless they offer you direct buffs.

 Bobthehero wrote:

Kind of like orders? So nothing much has changed, really.

Again, I tell you something is going to get better, and your argument is "my army already X so this change is inconsequential"

 Bobthehero wrote:

Responded sharply to forseeable nerfs towards what made two not very good armies not terrible. Shooting does not need buffs, but Scions and Krieg don't need nerfs. Furthermore, my biggest gripe with the new ediiton so far (low rend values) apply to both shooting and melee.

And the suggestion, throughout every announced change has been that your armies will get better if they need to be, or worse if that's needed. Whether they deliver on this isn't something we can know yet, but at the very least they've managed to finally admit publicly that things were askew and needed sorting. All you can take from it though is a cursory glance at whether they make your own toys better, and then immediate dismissal if its not an obvious step up.

You might not realize that you need too, but you need to take a step back and realize that you wont be playing this game in any meaningful way alone... Having some investment making sure the game treats everyone else's toys fairly as well is important.

ignore this.

 Rippy wrote:
This thread was so good for 100 pages until all of the GW bashers and knights started fighting.
This is a thread of fact, rumour and speculation, not for just venting your personal rage at things we don't know. Take your negativity and kindly feth off please

Did you remember the old Lasgun vs Landraider days? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.