Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase

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**Unusual Suspect**

lindsay40k wrote:
Can someone tell me what HYMP/MP means? Glossary links aren't working on iOS -.-

Not taking a Land Raider or Riptide because it can be damaged by anything is like not building a statue because any wind-blown particle can erode it. If you're worried about getting sandblasted to death, just bite the bullet and GIVE ME RAMMING SPEED

(I hope I can still run things over/T-bone them...)

High Yield Missile Pod and Missile Pod, respectively. They're Tau Empire weapons. I used them as examples because I'm a Tau player at heart, but if need be, pretend I'm talking about Autocannons instead.

Edit: and yes, I do hope they retain some method of crushing infantry beneath wheels/treads. I believe the current rumors are that everything has the same profile, so its possible Vehicles may just end up having "Attacks". They could also end up "stuck" in melee, albeit with the new general capability of retreating.

That's one aspect of the rules that I don't think has been directly addressed, and has barely been addressed indirectly. Depending on how they do that, I suspect there might be a fluff/realism rebellion.

**Azreal13**

My guess (and that's all it is, but I've been batting a decent average so far) is that vehicles (other than walkers) will get attacks "on the charge" but if they don't wipe out their target, will have to sit there and endure free strikes without being able to retaliate in later rounds, and nobody will be pinned in combat with a vehicle, so they'll be free to walk away, or the vehicle has to drive away suffering further free strikes.

**StormKing**

I'm a little disappointed that the armies in the starter set is going to be space Marines and nurgly space Marines? Kind of wanted something else! Dark vengeance was space Marines (dark Angels) and space Marines (chaos) wish they would have chosen something else, space Marines vs Nids or dark eldar or something different!!

I am excited about having combined codecies tho! Makes it alot better for new players and even existing players to afford/keep up with updates

**Galas**

Maybe vehicles will cause mortal wounds (1d3 or 1d6) in the charge, like heavy cavalry on AoS.

How they will fuction in combat after that I really can't imagine it.

**Vryce**

chiefbigredman wrote:
I'm a little disappointed that the armies in the starter set is going to be space Marines and nurgly space Marines? Kind of wanted something else! Dark vengeance was space Marines (dark Angels) and space Marines (chaos) wish they would have chosen something else, space Marines vs Nids or dark eldar or something different!!

I am excited about having combined codecies tho! Makes it alot better for new players and even existing players to afford/keep up with updates

Well, in the Q&A earlier this week, the dev's talked about the conflict between the IoM & Chaos taking more of a center stage on the galactic scale, so a starter set with SM/CSM makes sense.

**casvalremdeikun**

I am disappointed that it appears the SM have molded shoulder pauldrons like Dark Vengeance. I wish it was more like Black Reach with no icons molded on, but ample amount of decals to make just about of everything.

**Imateria**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am disappointed that it appears the SM have molded shoulder pauldrons like Dark Vengeance. I wish it was more like Black Reach with no icons molded on, but ample amount of decals to make just about of everything.

As far as we can tell they're a new faction, not a replacement for Tac's.

**Red Corsair**

Imateria wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am disappointed that it appears the SM have molded shoulder pauldrons like Dark Vengeance. I wish it was more like Black Reach with no icons molded on, but ample amount of decals to make just about of everything.

As far as we can tell they're a new faction, not a replacement for Tac's.

Yea they aren't supposed to be a replacement for other chapters marines, at this point anyway.

**casvalremdeikun**

Imateria wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am disappointed that it appears the SM have molded shoulder pauldrons like Dark Vengeance. I wish it was more like Black Reach with no icons molded on, but ample amount of decals to make just about of everything.

As far as we can tell they're a new faction, not a replacement for Tac's.

Based on what? They have all the same heraldry and color scheme of Ultramarines. I sincerely doubt that these are anything different than just a new armor mark for Space Marines. We will likely get a wider release kit that is for all Space Marines.

**Azreal13**

Based on what's the people that told us they were coming said.

**Rippy**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Imateria wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am disappointed that it appears the SM have molded shoulder pauldrons like Dark Vengeance. I wish it was more like Black Reach with no icons molded on, but ample amount of decals to make just about of everything.

As far as we can tell they're a new faction, not a replacement for Tac's.
Based on what? They have all the same heraldry and color scheme of Ultramarines. I sincerely doubt that these are anything different than just a new armor mark for Space Marines. We will likely get a wider release kit that is for all Space Marines.

Yeah baseless speculation there. Rumours are actually saying opposite, it's UM vs. Death Guard, unless they are splitting off Ultramarines as a new faction from SM.

**Azreal13**

75hastings69 wrote:, there will of course be new Chaos Marines models, but I am referring to a totally new kind of Marine, those created on Mars by Cawl & RG along with the other new machineries of war.

**Vryce**

Edit - misread the post I was quoting.

Move along, nothing to see here.

**casvalremdeikun**

Rippy wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
Imateria wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am disappointed that it appears the SM have molded shoulder pauldrons like Dark Vengeance. I wish it was more like Black Reach with no icons molded on, but ample amount of decals to make just about of everything.

As far as we can tell they're a new faction, not a replacement for Tac's.
Based on what? They have all the same heraldry and color scheme of Ultramarines. I sincerely doubt that these are anything different than just a new armor mark for Space Marines. We will likely get a wider release kit that is for all Space Marines.

Yeah baseless speculation there. Rumours are actually saying opposite, it's UM vs. Death Guard, unless they are splitting off Ultramarines as a new faction from SM.

Baseless speculation on my part or from the people saying they are a new faction?

**Ragnar Blackmane**

Another thing that I see no one talk about:
Remember how useless all those hull and side sponsons were and are on Leman Russ tanks with a big tank gun (ordinance), including the iconic standard pattern Leman Russ, after the 5th edition because they weren't allowed to effectively fire all of their weapons in a turn, completely contrary to the fluff? How buying any side sponsons was completely pointless on them? Or how buying another stormbolter on a Vindicator is basically wasting points?

If shooting rules for vehicles will work how they currently do with Monstrous Creatures, which absolutely makes sense with how the changes for vehicles look like... this will no longer be an issue.
That would be a massive buff to any classic main battle tank right there.

Also going over the psychic powers preview again, if you take the information word for word they seem even more reigned in than has been assumed so far in this thread:

...and there’s a simpler, two-dice mechanic for casting, you just need to beat the warp charge value.

Depending on the reading, 'beating' the warp charge value could imply having to roll above it. That would mean that casting e.g. Smite would fail on a 2-5 2D6 roll.

This is even more the case for an 'overcast' for Smite. It literally requires a roll 'above 10', which means the D6 mortal wounds only happen if you roll a 11 or 12 on 2D6. That's equivalent to failing a morale check with a Ld10 character in 7th Edition. And we know how often that happens. Even if the power goes activates on a 5, chances to completely fail the spell are higher than to get the overcast/overcharge benefit.

**cuda1179**

lindsay40k wrote:
Can someone tell me what HYMP/MP means? Glossary links aren't working on iOS -.-

Not taking a Land Raider or Riptide because it can be damaged by anything is like not building a statue because any wind-blown particle can erode it. If you're worried about getting sandblasted to death, just bite the bullet and GIVE ME RAMMING SPEED

(I hope I can still run things over/T-bone them...)

That's High Yield Missile Pod

**Caederes**

Dreadnoughts being slightly more fragile to Lascannons and significantly less fragile to Scatter Lasers is AMAZING for game balance. How many meltas/lascannons/bright lances/railguns/etc do you see in the current meta? The answer is barely any because high rate of fire guns with medium Strength outclass low rate of fire guns with high Strength all the time now which makes no damned sense against vehicles. Assuming the weapons are priced correctly, this means players will have to start incorporating both Scatter Lasers and Bright Lances (or Grav Guns and Lascannons) into their armies rather than just all or nothing on the one type. I also don't see armies exclusively adopting those railguns and lascannons because then they would get screwed over against high model count armies. So basically....yes, the 8 Wound Toughness 7 3+ save Dreadnought is more durable than it was before overall if we use the current rules as a guideline. And, as someone else pointed out, it's currently more durable than the old Riptide in a lot of cases (obviously in the context of the old rules again) Good.

**Galas**

Yeah. Dreadnoughts should be totally obliterated by anti-tank weaponry. Thats why you bring anti-tank weaponry.

And low basic weapons like bolter and flasguns yeah, they can kill one but with a luck so high or a masive amount of shoots that is totally unoptimal to do so. If they have done Dreadnought more resistent to the spam of medium-strenght shoots thats how you fix them.

Obviously, give them more dakka too! But I'll wait until the "Warscrol" for the Dreadnought comes. Because in AoS you have many many units with a statline that isn't impresive but it is worth it because of his habilities.

An example (Ok, is an unfair example because this unit is considered pretty OP, but to exemplify how a "normal" statline can totally change with habilities)

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/fw_warscrolls/aos-warscroll-mourngul.pdf

Something like the Haunter of the dark improve his surbivability by millions. I'm sure Dreadnoughts are gonna have some defensive innate hability too.

**Dr. Cheesesteak**

Vryce wrote:
chiefbigredman wrote:
I'm a little disappointed that the armies in the starter set is going to be space Marines and nurgly space Marines? Kind of wanted something else! Dark vengeance was space Marines (dark Angels) and space Marines (chaos) wish they would have chosen something else, space Marines vs Nids or dark eldar or something different!!

I am excited about having combined codecies tho! Makes it alot better for new players and even existing players to afford/keep up with updates

Well, in the Q&A earlier this week, the dev's talked about the conflict between the IoM & Chaos taking more of a center stage on the galactic scale, so a starter set with SM/CSM makes sense.

I understand both perspectives. Marines sell. But some players don't like the oversaturated aesthetic.

The combined codices is really nice, yeah. It may help me decide on which 2 factions I choose, whether I decide to save money and have them all in one (Xenos) or throw down the extra $20-40 and get 2 (Xenos and Chaos).

**SeanDrake**

Galas wrote:
Yeah. Dreadnoughts should be totally obliterated by anti-tank weaponry. Thats why you bring anti-tank weaponry.

And low basic weapons like bolter and flasguns yeah, they can kill one but with a luck so high or a masive amount of shoots that is totally unoptimal to do so. If they have done Dreadnought more resistent to the spam of medium-strenght shoots thats how you fix them.

Obviously, give them more dakka too! But I'll wait until the "Warscrol" for the Dreadnought comes. Because in AoS you have many many units with a statline that isn't impresive but it is worth it because of his habilities.

An example (Ok, is an unfair example because this unit is considered pretty OP, but to exemplify how a "normal" statline can totally change with habilities)

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/fw_warscrolls/aos-warscroll-mourngul.pdf

Something like the Haunter of the dark improve his surbivability by millions. I'm sure Dreadnoughts are gonna have some defensive innate hability too.

Using one of the most op units/rules in AoS is probably not a.good idea.

The other thing to consider is if the dread's stats are going to degrade with damage.

**Ragnar Blackmane**

SeanDrake wrote:

The other thing to consider is if the dread's stats are going to degrade with damage.

Well, degraded stats are nothing to instantly having your weapons (half to almost all your firepower depending on the situation even with the first result) destroyed or being immobilized in your deployment zone, with a very high probability of any of these happen if you eat a penetrating hit on the first turn. And if you add up the chance of the destroyed weapon, immobilized and the chance of outright being killed together, well...

That's IMO the biggest reason why AV12 Dreads are dead in the water right now and AV13 Dreads being slightly better because they can ignore the S6 spam out of the S6/S7 spam AT meta. Besides being able to literally glance them to death being way to easy, even the first penetrating hit is highly likely to make your Dread mostly useless. Ranged Dread? Poof, there goes your stronger ranged weapon or half your firepower or the ability to reposition or turn. Balanced Dread? Poof, either your change to shoot or to ever get into melee (or your DCCW) is gone. Close Combat Dread? Let's not even bother. No one wants to field something that is so unreliable and easily disabled. Even what has been made public now does completely away with that as well as their greatest nemesis by far, S6 and S7 spam, being less than half as effective against them, assuming the profiles of Autocannons etc. stay largely the same or what we expect them to be (which are quite reasonable guesses when we infer it from the Lascannon and Bolter stats we know).

**Unusual Suspect**

SeanDrake wrote:
[/spoiler]
Galas wrote:
Yeah. Dreadnoughts should be totally obliterated by anti-tank weaponry. Thats why you bring anti-tank weaponry.

And low basic weapons like bolter and flasguns yeah, they can kill one but with a luck so high or a masive amount of shoots that is totally unoptimal to do so. If they have done Dreadnought more resistent to the spam of medium-strenght shoots thats how you fix them.

Obviously, give them more dakka too! But I'll wait until the "Warscrol" for the Dreadnought comes. Because in AoS you have many many units with a statline that isn't impresive but it is worth it because of his habilities.

An example (Ok, is an unfair example because this unit is considered pretty OP, but to exemplify how a "normal" statline can totally change with habilities)

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/fw_warscrolls/aos-warscroll-mourngul.pdf

Something like the Haunter of the dark improve his surbivability by millions. I'm sure Dreadnoughts are gonna have some defensive innate hability too.
[/spoiler]

Using one of the most op units/rules in AoS is probably not a.good idea.

The other thing to consider is if the dread's stats are going to degrade with damage.

Its a good example for "special rules can make or break what appears to be a relatively weak statline," though. That it is OP, rather than merely balanced, suggests (if it suggests anything) that Galas' point was that much stronger - stat lines are just the beginning of determining the potency of a unit.

And Galas was clearly talking about people's initial worry that the Dreadnought was underpowered. An implication that the Dreadnought might end up OP in this edition (after many, many editions where they were suboptimal) is probably the BEST idea if Galas wants to convince those currently moaning and groaning that dedicated anti-tank weapons are still dangerous to Dreadnoughts.

**Vryce**

Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
Vryce wrote:
chiefbigredman wrote:
I'm a little disappointed that the armies in the starter set is going to be space Marines and nurgly space Marines? Kind of wanted something else! Dark vengeance was space Marines (dark Angels) and space Marines (chaos) wish they would have chosen something else, space Marines vs Nids or dark eldar or something different!!

I am excited about having combined codecies tho! Makes it alot better for new players and even existing players to afford/keep up with updates

Well, in the Q&A earlier this week, the dev's talked about the conflict between the IoM & Chaos taking more of a center stage on the galactic scale, so a starter set with SM/CSM makes sense.

I understand both perspectives. Marines sell. But some players don't like the oversaturated aesthetic.

The combined codices is really nice, yeah. It may help me decide on which 2 factions I choose, whether I decide to save money and have them all in one (Xenos) or throw down the extra $20-40 and get 2 (Xenos and Chaos).

I understand it too. Especially as a CSM player, I'm tired of seeing the Loyalists getting all the things. Considering the recent fluff in all the GS books, and the recent Shadow Wars: Armageddon they really could have done anything else. Eldar/Daemons, Orks/Tau, Necrons/Tyranids; anything would have been plausible. But I don't think we'll ever see a starter box without SM.

**Daedalus81**

Predictions for tomorrow...

AoS split fire.
Casualties from anywhere.
Cover mechanics (hopefully).

What else?

**Ginsu33**

Reposting my theory here from 'More giant marines proof' as this topic seems to be the main one.

Ginsu33 wrote:
My THEORY.

RG would prefer to standardize Space Marines, because they are too fragmented in their current state.

The original rumour/leak stated that these RG Marines will come from MARS. I thought they would be local to Ultra, but this makes sense if you want to supply the Imperium with weapons and equipment/Mk X etc, you would pick a location like Mars.

RG will actually try to standardize Marine recuitment and training, all Marines will meet the same standard now. Chapters like DA, BA, BT already have upgrade kits to look different, and I think that's what GW is slowly pushing towards, if you want a standard Marine look, go with the new marines, if you like old school with some flavour for your chapter of choice, grab the upgrade kit. Lore wise, these chapters will continue to recruit and create Marines the way they think is right, which leads to really different looking Marine forces, eventually.

I think they will make the original Marines larger, and I wouldn't be surprised if this scale creep went up for all forces eventually, leaving IG and others small because it makes sense for them to be smaller.

CRACKPOT TIME

LOOK at the previous Ultramarines artwork and colours what do we always see? 2nd Company, GOLD and BLUE.

NOW if you look at the colour wheel, what colour is opposite to yellow/gold? Blue and PURPLE, and who have Ultramarines been fighting a lot in the last few years? TYRANIDS! To be specific PURPLE Tyranids. Why is this important?

Because for the first time, we see the 3RD COMPANY in the painting booklet.. which is RED and BLUE, and what is the opposite colour to RED in the colour wheel? GREEN!

And what faction has green as a primary colour.... PLAGUE MARINES - yes.. you have just stepped through the looking glass.

**gigasnail**

Ragnar Blackmane wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:

The other thing to consider is if the dread's stats are going to degrade with damage.

Well, degraded stats are nothing to instantly having your weapons (half to almost all your firepower depending on the situation even with the first result) destroyed or being immobilized in your deployment zone, with a very high probability of any of these happen if you eat a penetrating hit on the first turn. And if you add up the chance of the destroyed weapon, immobilized and the chance of outright being killed together, well...

That's IMO the biggest reason why AV12 Dreads are dead in the water right now

and grav immobilizing vehicles, and it being everywhere, yeah. walkers and heavy vehicles in general are boned as it stands currently.

have to see what they do with grav (both in effect and in points/cost) before we all start getting excited about anything to do with vehicles.

**Rippy**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Rippy wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
Imateria wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am disappointed that it appears the SM have molded shoulder pauldrons like Dark Vengeance. I wish it was more like Black Reach with no icons molded on, but ample amount of decals to make just about of everything.

As far as we can tell they're a new faction, not a replacement for Tac's.
Based on what? They have all the same heraldry and color scheme of Ultramarines. I sincerely doubt that these are anything different than just a new armor mark for Space Marines. We will likely get a wider release kit that is for all Space Marines.

Yeah baseless speculation there. Rumours are actually saying opposite, it's UM vs. Death Guard, unless they are splitting off Ultramarines as a new faction from SM.
Baseless speculation on my part or from the people saying they are a new faction?

People saying there is a new faction, I mean

**jhnbrg**

I wonder how important base sizes will be now that templates are gone?

**kodos**

as long as everything else is still measured from the base and not the model, base size the most important part of the figure, next to equipment.

**Frankenberry**

Azreal13 wrote:
FFS.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

JSG wrote:
Frankenberry wrote:
After finally getting through all of the rumors and the most recent Q & A, I've gotta say I was pretty excited. That is until the whole, 'we want all weapons to be relevant' bit.

Standard issue lasguns blowing up tanks is not something that makes any sort of sense. At all. From a game standpoint all it does is make vehicles worse (who knew THAT could happen)and make infantry better (again, who knew that could happen either).

From a fluff standpoint? Well, that's never mattered anyway so I'll just rage about that internally.

Since the whole idea behind this addition is 'everyone can do everything', then there'd better be a massive points drop in all vehicles. Otherwise who is going to bother taking a Leman Russ or Land Raider when thirty lasguns can just appear and erase them?

Didn't they say it would take like 500 lasguns to take down a landraider?

Bascially, yes. It's such a non-argument that it barely warrants mentioning, but we're likely to get it every 5 pages because people don't read back in threads any further than that.

Sorry to inconvenience you, Lord Azreal. How about you send me a list of things I can and cannot post - just so I don't offend you in the future. Us plebs who don't want to read 100+ pages of arguments and passive-aggressive nonsense would really appreciate it.