Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase

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**CthuluIsSpy**

insaniak wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Assuming 3+ to hit and that each krak missile only inflicts 1 damage,

It's unlikely that krak missiles would be 1 Damage.

Ok, Assuming that they deal 3 points of damage (assuming that kraks are D3. I doubt they will make them D6 like lascannons), it will take on average 10 shots to kill a dread. Still one more than currently.

**Spoletta**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
insaniak wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Assuming 3+ to hit and that each krak missile only inflicts 1 damage,

It's unlikely that krak missiles would be 1 Damage.

Ok, Assuming that they deal 3 points of damage (assuming that kraks are D3. I doubt they will make them D6 like lascannons), it will take on average 10 shots to kill a dread. Still one more than currently.

And without random stuns, immobilize and weapons destroyed.

**StormKing**

Vryce wrote:
Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
Vryce wrote:
chiefbigredman wrote:
I'm a little disappointed that the armies in the starter set is going to be space Marines and nurgly space Marines? Kind of wanted something else! Dark vengeance was space Marines (dark Angels) and space Marines (chaos) wish they would have chosen something else, space Marines vs Nids or dark eldar or something different!!

I am excited about having combined codecies tho! Makes it alot better for new players and even existing players to afford/keep up with updates

Well, in the Q&A earlier this week, the dev's talked about the conflict between the IoM & Chaos taking more of a center stage on the galactic scale, so a starter set with SM/CSM makes sense.

I understand both perspectives. Marines sell. But some players don't like the oversaturated aesthetic.

The combined codices is really nice, yeah. It may help me decide on which 2 factions I choose, whether I decide to save money and have them all in one (Xenos) or throw down the extra $20-40 and get 2 (Xenos and Chaos).

I understand it too. Especially as a CSM player, I'm tired of seeing the Loyalists getting all the things. Considering the recent fluff in all the GS books, and the recent Shadow Wars: Armageddon they really could have done anything else. Eldar/Daemons, Orks/Tau, Necrons/Tyranids; anything would have been plausible. But I don't think we'll ever see a starter box without SM.

I am seeing lots of people saying space Marines sell which makes sense because they push it so much in their starter sets (maybe why?) But even if they had space Marines of some kind against something other than Marines it would be a nice change.

Any of the ones you suggested would make awesome starter sets tho! Multiple starters would be cool

**Galas**

Unusual Suspect wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
[/spoiler]
Galas wrote:
Yeah. Dreadnoughts should be totally obliterated by anti-tank weaponry. Thats why you bring anti-tank weaponry.

And low basic weapons like bolter and flasguns yeah, they can kill one but with a luck so high or a masive amount of shoots that is totally unoptimal to do so. If they have done Dreadnought more resistent to the spam of medium-strenght shoots thats how you fix them.

Obviously, give them more dakka too! But I'll wait until the "Warscrol" for the Dreadnought comes. Because in AoS you have many many units with a statline that isn't impresive but it is worth it because of his habilities.

An example (Ok, is an unfair example because this unit is considered pretty OP, but to exemplify how a "normal" statline can totally change with habilities)

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/fw_warscrolls/aos-warscroll-mourngul.pdf

Something like the Haunter of the dark improve his surbivability by millions. I'm sure Dreadnoughts are gonna have some defensive innate hability too.
[/spoiler]

Using one of the most op units/rules in AoS is probably not a.good idea.

The other thing to consider is if the dread's stats are going to degrade with damage.

Its a good example for "special rules can make or break what appears to be a relatively weak statline," though. That it is OP, rather than merely balanced, suggests (if it suggests anything) that Galas' point was that much stronger - stat lines are just the beginning of determining the potency of a unit.

And Galas was clearly talking about people's initial worry that the Dreadnought was underpowered. An implication that the Dreadnought might end up OP in this edition (after many, many editions where they were suboptimal) is probably the BEST idea if Galas wants to convince those currently moaning and groaning that dedicated anti-tank weapons are still dangerous to Dreadnoughts.

Thanks! That was exactly my intention!

I know mathhammer is fun, but what will make a unit OP or Useless will be the habilities they will have, so is useless to claim that something will be ultra-weak like Dreadnoughts or totally overpowered without seeing the complete package.

**davou**

it was orks in 5th, and nids in 4th IIRC.

I think eventually a starter box will come out featuring xeno's races, particularly because we have avenues to ask them for it now. We just need to pepper their wall with friendly reminders on occasion

**Daedalus81**

This starter fits the narrative they want to show.

**CthuluIsSpy**

So...when are they going to show off the shooting rules? Its getting a bit late, isn't it?

**Voodoo_Chile**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...when are they going to show off the shooting rules? Its getting a bit late, isn't it?

It's up https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/30/new-40k-shooting-phase-apr30gw-homepage-post-4/

**JohnnyHell**

Not a huge amount of detail in today's update. All seems kosher though.

**Galas**

Pistols shooting into combat? That is cool.

And no cover save to vehicles. Poor dreadnought camping with TL lasscanons with 2+

**CoreCommander**

Well, we know that pistols will be able to be shot in combat and that the CC engagement range is probably 1" (as opposed to AoS). Also, moving gives a -1 modifier to heavy weapons. Ok changes IMO - playable and simple.

**Daedalus81**

Plasma pistols just got awesome.

**H.B.M.C.**

You also can’t shoot if there is an enemy with 1″ of you. The exception to this rule is pistols.

Suck on that flamers and meltas!

Critically, this ability often only applies to certain types of unit. For example, only Infantry gain the bonus of cover from a crater.

Hmm... this makes me suspicious. Why isn't cover universal?

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
insaniak wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Assuming 3+ to hit and that each krak missile only inflicts 1 damage,

It's unlikely that krak missiles would be 1 Damage.

Ok, Assuming that they deal 3 points of damage (assuming that kraks are D3. I doubt they will make them D6 like lascannons), it will take on average 10 shots to kill a dread. Still one more than currently.

Anti-tank weapons being able to take out vehicles isn't the problem though. Those types of weapons are meant to do that, so it's hardly surprising. It's all the other stuff that can plink them to death that is.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Voodoo_Chile wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...when are they going to show off the shooting rules? Its getting a bit late, isn't it?

It's up https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/30/new-40k-shooting-phase-apr30gw-homepage-post-4/

Cheers.
Already some new things -

You also can’t shoot if there is an enemy with 1″ of you. The exception to this rule is pistols. Models with these hand-held firearms can shoot at the closest enemy target in the Shooting phase, even if they themselves are locked in combat! This is going to make characters with pistols <cough-Cypher-cough> incredibly deadly up-close.

Heavy weapons are worth talking about too. These no longer snap fire if you move, and instead they have a flat -1 to hit modifier for moving units. This applies to all models with heavy weapons, vehicles included. There are a few other factors that affect hit rolls too – smoke launchers on a vehicle, for example, have the same effect of -1 to hit.

The last big change we’re going over today is cover. Currently, cover saves give a blanket save to all units, and one that only comes into effect if the shot would otherwise ignore their armour. In the new Warhammer 40,000, cover is a bonus to your armour save. Critically, this ability often only applies to certain types of unit. For example, only Infantry gain the bonus of cover from a crater.

**MrDwhitey**

Galas wrote:

And no cover save to vehicles. Poor dreadnought camping with TL lasscanons with 2+

Critically, this ability often only applies to certain types of unit. For example, only Infantry gain the bonus of cover from a crater.

Emphasis mine.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Galas wrote:
Pistols shooting into combat? That is cool.

And no cover save to vehicles. Poor dreadnought camping with TL lasscanons with 2+

Idk about that. They seemed awfully specific about their example of Infantry receiving cover from a crater.
There might be some types of cover that do benefit vehicles. Maybe something like Tank Bunkers a la Red Alert 2 or something.

**Vryce**

Yodhrin wrote:

*dreams longingly of the alternate reality where "Imperium v Chaos starter" means Sisters of Battle fighting a Dark Mechanicus cult*

I would buy every box of this starter set I could get my hands on. EVERY. ONE.

**Liberal_Perturabo**

Still waiting for news on assault phase, but for now it still seems like it's going to be unplayable garbage.
Also, "can't shoot within 1" is poorly explained. Does this mean you can't overwatch if the enemy moved up to 1" of you in the movement phase? Or you still can since you can't be closer than an inch to enemy models unless fighting in melee?

**H.B.M.C.**

Liberal_Perturabo wrote:
Still waiting for news on assault phase, but for now it still seems like it's going to be unplayable garbage.
Also, "can't shoot within 1" is poorly explained. Does this mean you can't overwatch if the enemy moved up to 1" of you in the movement phase? Or you still can since you can't be closer than an inch to enemy models unless fighting in melee?

Did they even say overwatch was in the game?

**JohnnyHell**

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Critically, this ability often only applies to certain types of unit. For example, only Infantry gain the bonus of cover from a crater.
Hmm... this makes me suspicious. Why isn't cover universal?

Because a tank can't hide in a shallow shell crater. Applies some logic to the abstractions.

**nintura**

Welp, new heavy weapon rules makes my Salamanders army happy. Multi-melta in every tac squad now. Who cares about -1 when you get re-rolls.

**CoreCommander**

Liberal_Perturabo wrote:
Still waiting for news on assault phase, but for now it still seems like it's going to be unplayable garbage.

It plays ok. If you don't trust me on that you can try it yourself with the fanmade 40k aos scrolls which I'm not going to repost for the n-th time

Liberal_Perturabo wrote:

Also, "can't shoot within 1" is poorly explained. Does this mean you can't overwatch if the enemy moved up to 1" of you in the movement phase? Or you still can since you can't be closer than an inch to enemy models unless fighting in melee?

It's the shooting phase. If you have something within 1" you can't shoot at all unless you've got pistols in which case you can shoot at the the unit in question only. We ain't got to the assault phase yet where overwatch supposedly happens if it even is in the rules. Sounds pretty obvious and straightforward to me. Again, 1" is probably just the engagement range for units to be considered in CC

**Daedalus81**

Liberal_Perturabo wrote:
Still waiting for news on assault phase, but for now it still seems like it's going to be unplayable garbage.
Also, "can't shoot within 1" is poorly explained. Does this mean you can't overwatch if the enemy moved up to 1" of you in the movement phase? Or you still can since you can't be closer than an inch to enemy models unless fighting in melee?

It a tiny snippet. Very likely you can't come within 1" of enemy models without charging.

**Liberal_Perturabo**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Liberal_Perturabo wrote:
Still waiting for news on assault phase, but for now it still seems like it's going to be unplayable garbage.
Also, "can't shoot within 1" is poorly explained. Does this mean you can't overwatch if the enemy moved up to 1" of you in the movement phase? Or you still can since you can't be closer than an inch to enemy models unless fighting in melee?

Did they even saw overwatch was in the game?

Nothing was said about it. However nothing was also said about removing it, so that's just my guess.
Personally iI think it would be fairly stupid to get rid of it but who knows.

**Spoletta**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Liberal_Perturabo wrote:
Still waiting for news on assault phase, but for now it still seems like it's going to be unplayable garbage.
Also, "can't shoot within 1" is poorly explained. Does this mean you can't overwatch if the enemy moved up to 1" of you in the movement phase? Or you still can since you can't be closer than an inch to enemy models unless fighting in melee?

Did they even saw overwatch was in the game?

At this point i fully expect overwatch to be out.

Also, they are putting a lot of emphasis on "nearest target" interactions. I'm calling it now, you can no longer put characters in units, but you can shoot them only if it's the target closest to you.

**Crimson**

Oo! I like that pistol rule! Pistols are cool looking and I like equipping characters and squad leaders with them, but they have struggled to be worth having for several editions.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Liberal_Perturabo wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Liberal_Perturabo wrote:
Still waiting for news on assault phase, but for now it still seems like it's going to be unplayable garbage.
Also, "can't shoot within 1" is poorly explained. Does this mean you can't overwatch if the enemy moved up to 1" of you in the movement phase? Or you still can since you can't be closer than an inch to enemy models unless fighting in melee?

Did they even saw overwatch was in the game?

Nothing was said about it. However nothing was also said about removing it, so that's just my guess.
Personally iI think it would be fairly stupid to get rid of it but who knows.

Maybe they'll just wait to explain that when they talk about charging, ya know when overwatch triggers.

**H.B.M.C.**

JohnnyHell wrote:
Because a tank can't hide in a shallow shell crater. Applies some logic to the abstractions.

But why is cover abstracted?

**Daedalus81**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Suck on that flamers and meltas!

And why not?

The abstraction seems to be that pistols are small and quick enough to be used when enemies are close. Melta, flamers, and bolters are not.

I mean the rule could be pistols, meltas, and flames, because reasons.

**CoreCommander**

Spoletta wrote:

At this point i fully expect overwatch to be out.

It will most probably be in, but for specific units only (as a special rule on their scroll)