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 NenkotaMoon wrote:
Jasper, you do know there are other games that don't run on a point system and are rather just fine.

Yes, I have played some. I prefer points systems. It's a big part of what I like about TT gaming...list building to points values.

I'm allowed to prefer that, right?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Luciferian wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Runic wrote:
What a group. They decided to stick with 7th without knowing anything concrete about 8th.

Admirable haste in decision making.

The decision is primarily motivated by money. I'd have to buy 6 new codexes plus the rules to upgrade to 8th, and it's just not something I'm willing to do. I had the door half open on 8th, but the invalidation of the codices closed it for me and my group. It's not exactly an uniformed decision.

3 game modes with 2 of them having no points is just more reasons not to upgrade. Add the fact that since 8th is such a major update, surely 9th will be just around the corner to plug the holes.

I'll add that it's pretty gross that the FAQ is actually encouraging people to buy codices that will soon be put of print (for the lore of course, nothing to do with money). They should really take all of the old stuff off the shelf ASAP. Hopefully GW stores and FLGSs will do the right thing and give folks plenty of warning if they come in and buy an obsolete book. They should have done this month's and months ago instead of continuing to release new material they knew would become obsolete. But this has more to do with the way GW is treating it's customers rather than the rules themselves.

Now I've gotten this out of my system, I promise I won't haunt the boards with the ghost of 7th.

6? There's going to be 5 codexes at launc and at a lower price than current ones.

Along with free core rules and most likely an app where you can buy only the formations/units you need for a couple of bucks each.

I saw that the core rules are free, but the full rules are gonna cost.

I've also seen here that the new codices will be like 30 bucks a pop. Let's just pretend best case that the full rules will cost 50. I would need all 5 codices, and would not settle for an incomplete (but free) core ruleset.

So at a minimum the cost of entry for me would be 5 x $30 + $50 = $200. And I'm not interested in paying that.

I don't look down on anyone who is upgrading or anything like that, it's just that me and my little group decided not to fork over any more money.

Plus we are generally happy with 7th, and it will be fun to homebrew some fixes for the rules we don't like and come up with some new rules that we want (examples, we are going to allow manned guns on vehicles to overwatch because they realistically would be able to do so, and we're gonna dream up some rules for vehicle crew infantry, because crew should not just magically disappear when a vehicle is wrecked).

I'm happy to have my part of the conversation on this topic conclude with: you do what you want to do, and I'll do what I want to do.

 jasper76 wrote:

 NenkotaMoon wrote:
Jasper, you do know there are other games that don't run on a point system and are rather just fine.

Yes, I have played some. I prefer points systems. It's a big part of what I like about TT gaming...list building to points values.

I'm allowed to prefer that, right?

Just so happens it's one of the ways you can choose to play. Lucky you! It's OK for other people to prefer one of the other two ways to play, right?

All of the changes from GW seem to be a far cry from the night terrors some have espoused about the future of the game. I am thinking that I like aaaaaalmost all of it that I saw. I still do not like individualized movement and that seems all but certain. Theelimination of Blasts and Templates was a REALLY unexpected move but I can foresee them just giving a flamer a range and saying "D6+3 hits" or something like that. Similarly, the Large Blast will just do like "D6+4" hits or something like that. That is actually more terrifying on a lot of levels though. Spreading out well has been a part of the game forever and now it seems...maybe not.

 Luciferian wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 NenkotaMoon wrote:
Jasper, you do know there are other games that don't run on a point system and are rather just fine.

Yes, I have played some. I prefer points systems. It's a big part of what I like about TT gaming...list building to points values.

I'm allowed to prefer that, right?

Just so happens it's one of the ways you can choose to play. Lucky you! It's OK for other people to prefer one of the other two ways to play, right?

Absolutely. I do not begrudge anyone their preferences.

Personally I don't know why they'd really bother supporting a game mode without points, because almost no one plays that way. But hey, more power to them for giving people options.

 Luciferian wrote:
Personally I don't know why they'd really bother supporting a game mode without points, because almost no one plays that way. But hey, more power to them for giving people options.

What, you don't just throw a bunch of models onto a table and roll dice to see what happens?

Joking aside, it's absolutely fine that they included it, but I personally would have just put the points-free play in their 'narrative' mode. That's what it'll be used for, after all, right?

No harm, no foul.

Why do i feel Invulnerable saves will stay, and will be treated as Unmodifiable saves?
(E.G Say AP1 is a -4 to your saves (so a 2+ will become a 6+) but you have a Storm Shield, which is an Unmodifiable 3++ Save)

Because if so, Invulnerable save spam is going to be the META

"Hard to kill" has been a big part o the meta for a while. Its why Riptide Wings and Dual surges are a thing

 Jambles wrote:

 Luciferian wrote:
Personally I don't know why they'd really bother supporting a game mode without points, because almost no one plays that way. But hey, more power to them for giving people options.

What, you don't just throw a bunch of models onto a table and roll dice to see what happens?

Joking aside, it's absolutely fine that they included it, but I personally would have just put the points-free play in their 'narrative' mode. That's what it'll be used for, after all, right?

I'm not sure, I've never played that way or heard of anyone playing that way. I did hear that in 8th, narrative play is still going to be based on points but without wargear and weapons choices being taken into account.

 Jancoran wrote:
All of the changes from GW seem to be a far cry from the night terrors some have espoused about the future of the game. I am thinking that I like aaaaaalmost all of it that I saw. I still do not like individualized movement and that seems all but certain. Theelimination of Blasts and Templates was a REALLY unexpected move but I can foresee them just giving a flamer a range and saying "D6+3 hits" or something like that. Similarly, the Large Blast will just do like "D6+4" hits or something like that. That is actually more terrifying on a lot of levels though. Spreading out well has been a part of the game forever and now it seems...maybe not.

Is the removal of templates and blasts confirmed? Or is that an AoS thing?

The only thing I've seen GW confirm rule-wise is the return of the movement stat (which personally I prefer) and the save modifiers. Have I missed something on blasts?

 Whittlesey40k wrote:
Is the removal of templates and blasts confirmed? Or is that an AoS thing?

The only thing I've seen GW confirm rule-wise is the return of the movement stat (which personally I prefer) and the save modifiers. Have I missed something on blasts?

In the Q&A that GW hosted earlier today, they said that there will no longer be templates.

Summary here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/724069.page#9318699

 Whittlesey40k wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
All of the changes from GW seem to be a far cry from the night terrors some have espoused about the future of the game. I am thinking that I like aaaaaalmost all of it that I saw. I still do not like individualized movement and that seems all but certain. Theelimination of Blasts and Templates was a REALLY unexpected move but I can foresee them just giving a flamer a range and saying "D6+3 hits" or something like that. Similarly, the Large Blast will just do like "D6+4" hits or something like that. That is actually more terrifying on a lot of levels though. Spreading out well has been a part of the game forever and now it seems...maybe not.

Is the removal of templates and blasts confirmed? Or is that an AoS thing?

The only thing I've seen GW confirm rule-wise is the return of the movement stat (which personally I prefer) and the save modifiers. Have I missed something on blasts?

The guy on the warhammer TV video confirmed templates are history

 Whittlesey40k wrote:
Is the removal of templates and blasts confirmed? Or is that an AoS thing?

The only thing I've seen GW confirm rule-wise is the return of the movement stat (which personally I prefer) and the save modifiers. Have I missed something on blasts?

Templates are indeed out. They're even on the list of things that stores should stop selling.

 Luciferian wrote:

 Whittlesey40k wrote:
Is the removal of templates and blasts confirmed? Or is that an AoS thing?

The only thing I've seen GW confirm rule-wise is the return of the movement stat (which personally I prefer) and the save modifiers. Have I missed something on blasts?

Templates are indeed out. They're even on the list of things that stores should stop selling.

Odd move...templates are fun!

 jasper76 wrote:

 Luciferian wrote:

 Whittlesey40k wrote:
Is the removal of templates and blasts confirmed? Or is that an AoS thing?

The only thing I've seen GW confirm rule-wise is the return of the movement stat (which personally I prefer) and the save modifiers. Have I missed something on blasts?

Templates are indeed out. They're even on the list of things that stores should stop selling.

Odd move...templates are fun!

I dunno, they're a cheap brittle plastic, they can be lost etc. I won't be sad to see them gone

BrianDavion wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Luciferian wrote:

 Whittlesey40k wrote:
Is the removal of templates and blasts confirmed? Or is that an AoS thing?

The only thing I've seen GW confirm rule-wise is the return of the movement stat (which personally I prefer) and the save modifiers. Have I missed something on blasts?

Templates are indeed out. They're even on the list of things that stores should stop selling.

Odd move...templates are fun!

I dunno, they're a cheap brittle plastic, they can be lost etc. I won't be sad to see them gone

I never found them difficult to maintain or keep track of

But I just like catching dudes in bunches and laying flame on them. Something fun about counting all those models you catch beneath a template or blast.

 jasper76 wrote:


I never found them difficult to maintain or keep track of

But I just like catching dudes in bunches and laying flame on them. Something fun about counting all those models you catch beneath a template or blast.

I also like the idea of templates, but there are pros and cons to each approach. Templates are flavorful, but can be timestaking to use and prone to human error. Rolling removes any question of proper placement and is faster but doesn't have the cool factor or the interactivity.

 Whittlesey40k wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
All of the changes from GW seem to be a far cry from the night terrors some have espoused about the future of the game. I am thinking that I like aaaaaalmost all of it that I saw. I still do not like individualized movement and that seems all but certain. Theelimination of Blasts and Templates was a REALLY unexpected move but I can foresee them just giving a flamer a range and saying "D6+3 hits" or something like that. Similarly, the Large Blast will just do like "D6+4" hits or something like that. That is actually more terrifying on a lot of levels though. Spreading out well has been a part of the game forever and now it seems...maybe not.

Is the removal of templates and blasts confirmed? Or is that an AoS thing?

The only thing I've seen GW confirm rule-wise is the return of the movement stat (which personally I prefer) and the save modifiers. Have I missed something on blasts?

Yes. There was a broadcast yesterday

it's at times like this where I wish I wouldnt have bought into the hype of gathering Storm and started creating a combines Aeldari list.

Aslo: My flame templates are gone! Nooooo!

Other than that everything is good.

 Jancoran wrote:
All of the changes from GW seem to be a far cry from the night terrors some have espoused about the future of the game. I am thinking that I like aaaaaalmost all of it that I saw. I still do not like individualized movement and that seems all but certain. Theelimination of Blasts and Templates was a REALLY unexpected move but I can foresee them just giving a flamer a range and saying "D6+3 hits" or something like that. Similarly, the Large Blast will just do like "D6+4" hits or something like that. That is actually more terrifying on a lot of levels though. Spreading out well has been a part of the game forever and now it seems...maybe not.

At first i didn’t liked the idea of templates going away. But the more i think about it the more i like it. I see more pro than cons in this. And i never enjoyed moving 30 Gants. Cuz you had to spread them out. And you had to be careful not to but them to close together. You couldn’t fit a lot of them in a terrain piece. Cuz one large blast with no cover or a few small once would take out the whole unit. So it makes the game faster by getting rid of dice indecated directions. Or shooting 3 Thunderfire Cannons.

aww. I just found my old 3rd edition templates yesterday!

nordsturmking wrote:
At first i didn’t liked the idea of templates going away. But the more i think about it the more i like it. I see more pro than cons in this. And i never enjoyed moving 30 Gants. Cuz you had to spread them out. And you had to be careful not to but them to close together. You couldn’t fit a lot of them in a terrain piece. Cuz one large blast with no cover or a few small once would take out the whole unit. So it makes the game faster by getting rid of dice indecated directions. Or shooting 3 Thunderfire Cannons.

Also one less set of things to lose or buff of a friend. Also better for new players so they don't feel like they have to spend "even more" after they get their models all built.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
God I hope they drastically change the psychic phase.

Hell yeah

I wonder what happens to disciplines. Not sure how magic in AoS works or if it gives any indication how the psychic phase will be. Concepts like Primaris and having 6 powers per discipline might be up ended.

 Skerr wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
God I hope they drastically change the psychic phase.

Hell yeah

I wonder what happens to disciplines. Not sure how magic in AoS works or if it gives any indication how the psychic phase will be. Concepts like Primaris and having 6 powers per discipline might be up ended.

Magic in AoS works in general: You get two basic spells, a +1 to saves that can be conferred to a unit, and a damaging D3 Mortal(Unable to be saved normally) wounds bolt. Casters tend to get one extra unique spell to whoever they are as well/.

With Matched Play you cannot cast the same spell repeatedly by multiple casters, the rule of one. Only one mystic shield attempted per turn for example. The battletomes add in six extra spells/prayers for use by wizards, they can take one extra from this discipline (or roll for it if they really want)

 jasper76 wrote:

 Runic wrote:
What a group. They decided to stick with 7th without knowing anything concrete about 8th.

Admirable haste in decision making.

The decision is primarily motivated by money. I'd have to buy 6 new codexes plus the rules to upgrade to 8th, and it's just not something I'm willing to do. I had the door half open on 8th, but the invalidation of the codices closed it for me and my group. It's not exactly an uniformed decision

I think your decision might be better informed after reading this thread, or maybe just waiting for 8th to drop.

There's a saying for this type of things... " wait and see "

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Skerr wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
God I hope they drastically change the psychic phase.

Hell yeah

I wonder what happens to disciplines. Not sure how magic in AoS works or if it gives any indication how the psychic phase will be. Concepts like Primaris and having 6 powers per discipline might be up ended.

Magic in AoS works in general: You get two basic spells, a +1 to saves that can be conferred to a unit, and a damaging D3 Mortal(Unable to be saved normally) wounds bolt. Casters tend to get one extra unique spell to whoever they are as well/.

With Matched Play you cannot cast the same spell repeatedly by multiple casters, the rule of one. Only one mystic shield attempted per turn for example. The battletomes add in six extra spells/prayers for use by wizards, they can take one extra from this discipline (or roll for it if they really want)

I hope 8th edition makes psykic stuff a LITTTLE more complex,

 oldzoggy wrote:
Your codexes will not be compatible with the new edition + All models we currently sell will have rules... jikes this could hurt both my armies a lot.

3 ways of playing, not impressed by this at all. We already have this.
Unbound -> Not really accepted by most of my opponents.
Campaigns with specific armies -> I am not into that
Bound -> This is what all my games usually are.
My guess is that the new system isn't going to change a lot about this.

Then again who know it might also be great and the worst that can happen is that I would only be be able to enjoy horus herecy and shadow wars.. I can live with that. Both games are fun and I rarely play 40k anyway nowadays. If it becomes popular and I don't like it I just sell my models and continue playing the games I like, if it is fun then yay I have an other fun game to play.

Pretty much agreed with you (though I do enjoy campaign or thematic games). The ''3 ways to play'' is one of the lamest marketing spin I have ever seen considering that, as you pointed out, we already have this. Makes you realize that the old cliche of 'GW groupies mindlessly drinking the Kool-aid 'has more than a shred of truth to it.

BrianDavion wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Skerr wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
God I hope they drastically change the psychic phase.

Hell yeah

I wonder what happens to disciplines. Not sure how magic in AoS works or if it gives any indication how the psychic phase will be. Concepts like Primaris and having 6 powers per discipline might be up ended.

Magic in AoS works in general: You get two basic spells, a +1 to saves that can be conferred to a unit, and a damaging D3 Mortal(Unable to be saved normally) wounds bolt. Casters tend to get one extra unique spell to whoever they are as well/.

With Matched Play you cannot cast the same spell repeatedly by multiple casters, the rule of one. Only one mystic shield attempted per turn for example. The battletomes add in six extra spells/prayers for use by wizards, they can take one extra from this discipline (or roll for it if they really want)

I hope 8th edition makes psykic stuff a LITTTLE more complex,

Well, he's forgotten about army specific lores. IF your army goes full alleigance (all models have a certain keyword) you get access to a specific lore which you can CHOOSE spells from,


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr. CyberPunk wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
Your codexes will not be compatible with the new edition + All models we currently sell will have rules... jikes this could hurt both my armies a lot.

3 ways of playing, not impressed by this at all. We already have this.
Unbound -> Not really accepted by most of my opponents.
Campaigns with specific armies -> I am not into that
Bound -> This is what all my games usually are.
My guess is that the new system isn't going to change a lot about this.

Then again who know it might also be great and the worst that can happen is that I would only be be able to enjoy horus herecy and shadow wars.. I can live with that. Both games are fun and I rarely play 40k anyway nowadays. If it becomes popular and I don't like it I just sell my models and continue playing the games I like, if it is fun then yay I have an other fun game to play.

Pretty much agreed with you (though I do enjoy campaign or thematic games). The ''3 ways to play'' is one of the lamest marketing spin I have ever seen considering that, as you pointed out, we already have this. Makes you realize that the old cliche of 'GW groupies mindlessly drinking the Kool-aid 'has more than a shred of truth to it.

Or people have actually different tastes and appreciate the approach. Just saying.

Lord Kragan wrote:


Or people have actually different tastes and appreciate the approach. Just saying.

It got nothing to do with having different tastes or appreciating the approach. Unless GW pull a seriously big rabbit out of their hat and they come up with something really innovative, it's simply plain ridiculous to see people hyping the new ''3 ways to play'' approach when we already have it in this edition.