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 JohnnyHell wrote:
You remember there are (at least) 8 marks of armour already, not counting bespoke variants and Terminator armour suits? There is no one standard.

And because Marines are the best seller, changing them guarantees most sales.

Something being a new unit entirely also guarantees "most sales".

That's how the Fire Warriors box managed to be relevant, despite being stupid expensive, as it let Tau players add the Breacher Teams into the mix.

 DanceOfSlaanesh wrote:
But changing your classic best seller that everybody love?
Would be like coca-cola changing their recipe.(its an example, i dont know if coca-cola ever changed their recipe and if it was successful or not so dont bash me)

They might be changing it up to appeal to newer customers as well as getting existing customers to buy up the new stock. Even though Space Marines are iconic and the most popular race.... they also have horrible proportions and I've been told by a few mates starting wargaming that their first impression of Space Marines wasn't "ohhhh, awesome!" it was "err, why do they look so derpy?".

Personally if the nu Marines look better than the squatting Marines we currently have, I'll be happy to buy some to replace my existing models. But that said I don't own a huge force, someone who owns a whole company or chapter's worth of Marines might be a little less happy.

 Bull0 wrote:
I'm remembering people were just as annoyed when they moved Marines up to the 32mm bases, said it would be a massive annoyance, etc. It's really not a big deal if they've made them a bit taller.

The 32mm bases just meant rebasing- not especially difficult or time consuming.

For upscaling there is no way to upscale older finished painted marines.

Mordian2016 wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:
I'm remembering people were just as annoyed when they moved Marines up to the 32mm bases, said it would be a massive annoyance, etc. It's really not a big deal if they've made them a bit taller.

The 32mm bases just meant rebasing- not especially difficult or time consuming.

For upscaling there is no way to upscale older finished painted marines.

In all honesty, I'm happier with a proportion correcting upscaling than a base change.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Mordian2016 wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:
I'm remembering people were just as annoyed when they moved Marines up to the 32mm bases, said it would be a massive annoyance, etc. It's really not a big deal if they've made them a bit taller.

The 32mm bases just meant rebasing- not especially difficult or time consuming.

For upscaling there is no way to upscale older finished painted marines.

In all honesty, I'm happier with a proportion correcting upscaling than a base change.

Out of interest do you have a space marine collection that you play games with?

My issue with upscaling is where does it end? Upscale all the vehicles as well? And then what about other races that are meant to be bigger than their current model size suggests?

I don't think mixing true scale and heroic scale is a good idea. It will not take long for the game system to become aesthetically incongruous on the tabletop.

I like the scale and proportions of the current marines. I have always thought that some of the old imperial guard human models were too big and could do with a re-scaling downwards, rather than making marines too big.

I find the so called 'Truescale' converted Marines label to be a misnomer.

Mordian2016 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Mordian2016 wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:
I'm remembering people were just as annoyed when they moved Marines up to the 32mm bases, said it would be a massive annoyance, etc. It's really not a big deal if they've made them a bit taller.

The 32mm bases just meant rebasing- not especially difficult or time consuming.

For upscaling there is no way to upscale older finished painted marines.

In all honesty, I'm happier with a proportion correcting upscaling than a base change.

Out of interest do you have a space marine collection that you play games with?

I have a Space Puppy collection that I haven't played many games with in the past several years.

The main annoying thing for me will be wondering how long before they upscale the Space Pups and Terminators to match.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

robbienw wrote:
I like the scale and proportions of the current marines. I have always thought that some of the old imperial guard human models were too big and could do with a re-scaling downwards, rather than making marines too big.

I find the so called 'Truescale' converted Marines label to be a misnomer.

One problem with the current Marines is they're squatting. Once you just stand them up like a normal human being, they get taller anyway.

The current standard marine pose is so very 80's looking If GW didn't rescale Space Marines eventually I'd start to wonder if GW were just going to stay in the 80's forever.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Mordian2016 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Mordian2016 wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:
I'm remembering people were just as annoyed when they moved Marines up to the 32mm bases, said it would be a massive annoyance, etc. It's really not a big deal if they've made them a bit taller.

The 32mm bases just meant rebasing- not especially difficult or time consuming.

For upscaling there is no way to upscale older finished painted marines.

In all honesty, I'm happier with a proportion correcting upscaling than a base change.

Out of interest do you have a space marine collection that you play games with?

I have a Space Puppy collection that I haven't played many games with in the past several years.

The main annoying thing for me will be wondering how long before they upscale the Space Pups and Terminators to match.

I think the Wolf Guard Terminators will be relatively safe.

Compare what you have to the new Wulfen models and make assumptions from there.

Perhaps gw have seen all the truescale conversions and have simply thought, let's get a piece of that pie.

My guess is they will be MK10 Power Armour, and will be in scale with the Deathwatch guys.

robbienw wrote:
I like the scale and proportions of the current marines. I have always thought that some of the old imperial guard human models were too big and could do with a re-scaling downwards, rather than making marines too big.

I find the so called 'Truescale' converted Marines label to be a misnomer.

One problem with the current Marines is they're squatting. Once you just stand them up like a normal human being, they get taller anyway.

The current standard marine pose is so very 80's looking If GW didn't rescale Space Marines eventually I'd start to wonder if GW were just going to stay in the 80's forever.

I don't think the squatting criticism applies to the current marine kits anymore. I'd agree it was a problem with the previous 3rd edition Marines that came out in 1998, but the newer CAD designed stuff has much better variety of poses. None are standing bolt upright at their full height of course, but I wouldn't have though they would on the battlefield much anyway.

Marines have changed a massive amount since the 80's, better posing, better details, better models, they are nothing like the RTB01 kit anymore

These mysterious new 8th edition marines may be a bit bigger than the current ones, but it's unlikely they will be anymore detailed than the current stuff, bigger isn't always better, I would prefer marine models to stay as miniatures, rather than evolving into 6 inch action figures

robbienw wrote:

robbienw wrote:
I like the scale and proportions of the current marines. I have always thought that some of the old imperial guard human models were too big and could do with a re-scaling downwards, rather than making marines too big.

I find the so called 'Truescale' converted Marines label to be a misnomer.

One problem with the current Marines is they're squatting. Once you just stand them up like a normal human being, they get taller anyway.

The current standard marine pose is so very 80's looking If GW didn't rescale Space Marines eventually I'd start to wonder if GW were just going to stay in the 80's forever.

I don't think the squatting criticism applies to the current marine kits anymore. I'd agree it was a problem with the previous 3rd edition Marines that came out in 1998, but the newer CAD designed stuff has much better variety of poses. None are standing bolt upright at their full height of course, but I wouldn't have though they would on the battlefield much anyway.

Marines have changed a massive amount since the 80's, better posing, better details, better models, they are nothing like the RTB01 kit anymore

I'm looking at the pictures of the current Tacticals on the GW website right now and they mostly still look to have pretty crazy femur angles. They seem to all be standing with their feet about shoulder width apart (but we're talking the insanely wide SM shoulder pads here ) but the leg angles still look derpy 80's style to me (and that was the style back in the 80's due to the difficulty in casting legs that weren't spread wide).

Stand up and try and mimic the joint angles on most of the Space Marine legs and you end up looking pretty silly


I'm not a fan of scale creep in the slightest, however I see this more as "scale/proportion correction" than "scale creep".

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

Mordian2016 wrote:
Upscaling SM would be a mammoth task and a massive annoyance for a considerably large part of the fanbase.

A massive annoyance? The fanbase will be all over the latest shiny. Replacing all their old models with the newest coolest toy. Denouncing anyone who has the inferior old models. I thought that was how a vast amount of the GW fanbase worked.

Mordian2016 wrote:

As much as GW are doing great things at the moment, I can't stand the scale creep with new releases.

And with this I totally agree.

Amen. They'll gradually phase out the old space marines by lack of support and wowing people with new releases until it comes to a retcon at some point in the future. People will be snubbing their noses at those who still use the old marines.

By that time, Space Wolves will be Wolf marines that look like wolves, Ultramarines will be the nu-marines as we see them, blood angels will be man-bat marines, Salamanders will be dragon-looking marines, Iron Hands will be robot marines and Raven Guard will be winged monstrosity marines.

Edit: Oh yeah, and the newly found primarchs will join to form a giant robot with robot armored Corax forming the body, the arms formed by robot armored Sanguinus and Vulkan, and the legs formed by robot armored Guilliman and Rogal Dorn. That robot will fight the tyranid monstrosities, chaos titans and entities from the warp.

Assuming they are upsizing the marines, is this bad? This has happened before with the Bloodthirsters, Tyranid monsters, etc.

I'd be happy to see a new tactical marine kit.

robbienw wrote:
I like the scale and proportions of the current marines. I have always thought that some of the old imperial guard human models were too big and could do with a re-scaling downwards, rather than making marines too big.

I find the so called 'Truescale' converted Marines label to be a misnomer.

This is where I am. I think things like Cadians and Catachans were too tall. If you look at the GSC models, the Neophytes are about the right size when compared to SMs. If marines are upsized, are they going to upsize my Necrons, too? They're also supposed to be 8-ft tall.

 EnTyme wrote:

robbienw wrote:
I like the scale and proportions of the current marines. I have always thought that some of the old imperial guard human models were too big and could do with a re-scaling downwards, rather than making marines too big.

I find the so called 'Truescale' converted Marines label to be a misnomer.

This is where I am. I think things like Cadians and Catachans were too tall. If you look at the GSC models, the Neophytes are about the right size when compared to SMs. If marines are upsized, are they going to upsize my Necrons, too? They're also supposed to be 8-ft tall.

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/103-converting-modelling-green-stuff/66914-standing-necrons-guide.html#/topics/66914?page=1

 EnTyme wrote:

robbienw wrote:
I like the scale and proportions of the current marines. I have always thought that some of the old imperial guard human models were too big and could do with a re-scaling downwards, rather than making marines too big.

I find the so called 'Truescale' converted Marines label to be a misnomer.

This is where I am. I think things like Cadians and Catachans were too tall. If you look at the GSC models, the Neophytes are about the right size when compared to SMs. If marines are upsized, are they going to upsize my Necrons, too? They're also supposed to be 8-ft tall.

Also in agreement with these posts. While upping the size of Space Marines to resolve (some of) the significance divide between models and lore, where does that leave armies like Eldar and Orks? Moving regular humans to being smaller (i.e. like the Forgeworld guardsmen) seems more ideal. Plus while I can see GW re-doing the entire Space Marine range, I don't see that happening for all of the xenos races.

Although, I could see GW doing this for the following reasons: (a) it gives everyone's* favorite army the chance to be entirely re-purchased over a couple of years, functioning as a huge revenue source, and (b) it boosts marines to being more like their AoS Stormcast counterparts, which are far-and-away the biggest individual models in that game.

*may not be a factual statement

Actually, I think it more likely to see Orks and Eldar getting resized than the standard Space Marines and Guardsmen.

To me it's not a simple choice of either marines are too small or guardsmen are too big. It's both.

Cadians and marines are two of the most badly proportioned kits that GW currently produce. Using either as a basis by which to measure other kits is flawed.

In comparison, the skitarii and the genestealer neophytes are wonderful, gorgeously sculpted and beautifully proportioned. I'd love the see these being the new standard against which other kits are measured.

In an ideal world, I'd love to see Cadians replaced with a kit scaled more in line with the genestealer neophytes and I'm hoping the new marines are going to replace the crappy current marines.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

robbienw wrote:

robbienw wrote:
I like the scale and proportions of the current marines. I have always thought that some of the old imperial guard human models were too big and could do with a re-scaling downwards, rather than making marines too big.

I find the so called 'Truescale' converted Marines label to be a misnomer.

One problem with the current Marines is they're squatting. Once you just stand them up like a normal human being, they get taller anyway.

The current standard marine pose is so very 80's looking If GW didn't rescale Space Marines eventually I'd start to wonder if GW were just going to stay in the 80's forever.

I don't think the squatting criticism applies to the current marine kits anymore. I'd agree it was a problem with the previous 3rd edition Marines that came out in 1998, but the newer CAD designed stuff has much better variety of poses. None are standing bolt upright at their full height of course, but I wouldn't have though they would on the battlefield much anyway.

Marines have changed a massive amount since the 80's, better posing, better details, better models, they are nothing like the RTB01 kit anymore

I'm looking at the pictures of the current Tacticals on the GW website right now and they mostly still look to have pretty crazy femur angles. They seem to all be standing with their feet about shoulder width apart (but we're talking the insanely wide SM shoulder pads here ) but the leg angles still look derpy 80's style to me (and that was the style back in the 80's due to the difficulty in casting legs that weren't spread wide).

Stand up and try and mimic the joint angles on most of the Space Marine legs and you end up looking pretty silly


I'm not a fan of scale creep in the slightest, however I see this more as "scale/proportion correction" than "scale creep".

Have to agree to disagree with you on all points there lol

Still, if these come out as Mark 9 armour marines or a new unit of marines that go alongside the current range, then both of us will be happy. People who prefer the current scale can stay with the current Marines, people who want bigger can have the new bigger stuff, and people who like both can have both

People keep saying 32mm bases, pretty sure those Numarines are on 40mm bases. Look back at the original leaked unpainted marine next to the Last Chancer

While I would like them to rescale the entire SM range to these Numarines (even if it meant redoing a few dozen plastic box sets), it would probably upset a lot of players. Still, rule of cool and all that, and these ARE cool!

Besides the Custodes being larger than regular marines, wasn't there a story in White Dwarf about 15 years ago about a research team (might have been inquisitor and retinue) on Mars finding an ancient abandoned laboratory and in it was a giant marine in stasis who woke up and escaped in their ship? I want to say it was something regarding the Cursed Founding, might have been the related fluff story for the Chapter Approved article or else a story about the same time,

 Kalamadea wrote:
People keep saying 32mm bases, pretty sure those Numarines are on 40mm bases. Look back at the original leaked unpainted marine next to the Last Chancer

While I would like them to rescale the entire SM range to these Numarines (even if it meant redoing a few dozen plastic box sets), it would probably upset a lot of players. Still, rule of cool and all that, and these ARE cool!

Besides the Custodes being larger than regular marines, wasn't there a story in White Dwarf about 15 years ago about a research team (might have been inquisitor and retinue) on Mars finding an ancient abandoned laboratory and in it was a giant marine in stasis who woke up and escaped in their ship? I want to say it was something regarding the Cursed Founding, might have been the related fluff story for the Chapter Approved article or else a story about the same time,

The story I think you mean was researchers found a mystery site, which may have been a chapters gene seed operation, but I think more likely it was a Fabius Bile lab. The larger sized marine broke free when a ship entered orbit and it escaped.

I have nearly a full chapter, chapter not company built of the current marines, I do not want new larger marines . I won't even buy centurions because.......stupid.

 Kalamadea wrote:
People keep saying 32mm bases, pretty sure those Numarines are on 40mm bases. Look back at the original leaked unpainted marine next to the Last Chancer

While I would like them to rescale the entire SM range to these Numarines (even if it meant redoing a few dozen plastic box sets), it would probably upset a lot of players. Still, rule of cool and all that, and these ARE cool!

Besides the Custodes being larger than regular marines, wasn't there a story in White Dwarf about 15 years ago about a research team (might have been inquisitor and retinue) on Mars finding an ancient abandoned laboratory and in it was a giant marine in stasis who woke up and escaped in their ship? I want to say it was something regarding the Cursed Founding, might have been the related fluff story for the Chapter Approved article or else a story about the same time,

Yeah, I think a lot of people don't consider that a Space Marine is basically the size of an Ogryn (just under).. but.. in power armor (at least that's my understanding). If you think about that in terms of miniatures and bases, the whole thing that we have is kinda funny with how undersized they actually are.
Not mine but used for illustrative purposes.


I have a few Space Marine armies.. but I would most likely buy re-scaled marines. The cost of the vehicles might make me cry but at that point 1/32 military vehicles might be more acceptable.

I'm glad my hard stance of "I will never buy Space Marines until their models match their fluff" might finally be paying off. Even if these new marines are supposed to be their own thing that's not how I'm gonna do it.

Really looking forward to starting a Space Marine army with giant giant Space Marines, especially if they have new rules that make them incredibly awesome (such as being multi-wound models)

 judgedoug wrote:
Really looking forward to starting a Space Marine army with giant giant Space Marines...

I think you're going to be a little disappointed then. They're not that much taller than the Deathwatch plastics and even then it's mostly the legs that are differently scaled.

At this point I think we are at the "wait and see" stage to find out how the whole thing will shake down.

 Kalamadea wrote:
People keep saying 32mm bases, pretty sure those Numarines are on 40mm bases. Look back at the original leaked unpainted marine next to the Last Chancer

He isn't that much bigger than a Deathwatch Marine from the looks of it, and the pictures of them being painted have them situated next to a paint bot.

Put a 32 and 40 next to a paint pot to get an idea.

It's a 32.

 Breotan wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Really looking forward to starting a Space Marine army with giant giant Space Marines...

I think you're going to be a little disappointed then. They're not that much taller than the Deathwatch plastics and even then it's mostly the legs that are differently scaled.

yeah, my feeling is once we actually geta good look at these people expecting a dramatic resizing are gonna be dissappointed

BrianDavion wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Really looking forward to starting a Space Marine army with giant giant Space Marines...

I think you're going to be a little disappointed then. They're not that much taller than the Deathwatch plastics and even then it's mostly the legs that are differently scaled.

yeah, my feeling is once we actually geta good look at these people expecting a dramatic resizing are gonna be dissappointed

Not me.. because even a small resizing means that a conversion to "true scale" or whatever the cool kids are calling it these days will be scads easier. Would I prefer that they crank it to 11? Probably.. but I would understand why they would take a more conservative approach.

It occurred to me today... with upscaled Marines, Deathwatch is going to look bloody amazing.