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I wonder if these new "super-dooper" marines (which I'm still not convinced aren't conversions) might be starter-set exclusives, like the chaos chosen were from Dark Vengence. Or the Plastic Ork Warboss and Deff Koptas, or the crashed aquila, etc
They could even get their own datasheet to use in 40k (like the goff killmob) or whatever the 8th edition equivalent is, without actually being fully supported kits.
It's happened as recently as age of sigmar, where the only way (to my knowledge) to obtain a khorne bloodstoker or bloodsecrator is the starter box.
Even if they eventually get their own kit, it might be like the sisters of silence... one kit, and that's it
What if these aren't actually "marines" as such. Something to consider, what if they are something akin to the original Thunderwarriors, just the generic version.
Yeah, they'd put on chapter specific armor, but wouldn't be "marines" in a true sense. They'd live short, glorious, bloody lives and never live lone enough to be anything more than a sargent.
Crimson wrote: I find it really interesting that they have completely normal Ultramarine tactical squad markings.
Indeed.
1) They look like they're equipped like Tacticals
2) They're painted as Tacticals
3) It's been 7? years since the current Tactical box release, enough time for a refresh of the single best selling box GW make
Crimson wrote: I find it really interesting that they have completely normal Ultramarine tactical squad markings.
Indeed.
1) They look like they're equipped like Tacticals
2) They're painted as Tacticals
3) It's been 7? years since the current Tactical box release, enough time for a refresh of the single best selling box GW make
Occums Razor - they're Tacticals
I agree 100%. If they were some special unit they'd be covered in all manner of arcane frippery to designate them as so.
Crimson wrote: I find it really interesting that they have completely normal Ultramarine tactical squad markings.
Indeed.
1) They look like they're equipped like Tacticals
2) They're painted as Tacticals
3) It's been 7? years since the current Tactical box release, enough time for a refresh of the single best selling box GW make
Occums Razor - they're Tacticals
It's not been 7 years. It's been however long ago the Centurions came out; they redid the Tactical Squad then.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/24 07:19:34
I had hoped that this would be a new, super special marine unit and that was the end of it, but the fact that these appear to be in the starter set suggests otherwise. I think we are going to see a rolling replacement of SM kits, but with an in universe justification of new marines coming from Terra as replacements/reinforcements. The whole Imperium Nihilus then gives people an excuse if they're using the older kits, as they can say that their army is cut off from Terra.
The only fluff I can see working is that Primarch genetic material is required, which would also give a reason why the chapter-specific kits are still old marines, as I can't see Dark Angels, Space Wolves, etc. accepting marines with a different gene seed into their ranks. Allies, fine, brothers? No. I actually don't see this as a problem (slight spoilers for Deliverance Lost):
Spoiler:
Corax's "Raptor" project actually worked; the new, better, marines were stable and effective. It was only the Alpha legion throwing a warp virus into the mix that caused the problems. Interestingly Corax had to use unmodified gene seed, rather than his own, to make it work and that was stolen by the Alpha legion too. So either a) the Alpha legion (or some element of them) bring it back or b) somehow Guilliman can use his own.
A) raises the possibility that at leas part of the Alpha legion really are loyal. I've always wondered if the twins would split the legion, given the new fluff conflicts with their original status as traitors.
B) Raises an interesting question; what if Guilliman was created with the unmodified gene seed? In Deliverance Lost they talk about the Emperor deliberately making all his sons different to strengthen the Imperium, but that still means he could have left one with the original Primarch material and achieve that goal. This might also explain why Ultramarines gene seed is so stable and it would add an extra level of hubris to the Emperor's actions, if it was all the mucking about he did that caused the gene seed instabilities that, in part, led to the Horus Heresy.
The whole thing will end up with a late-44 Wehrmacht feel to it; some units equipped with the latest Panther main battle tanks and Stg.44 assault rifles and others running round with WWI era bolt-action rifles and converted Czech 38T tank destroyers.
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
I am definitely concerned about this new uber marine stuff. Like others said, it detracts from the legendary custodes, primarchs and makes any sisters models look even more insignificant.
I will say I do prefer the look of these to the older smaller marines. They remind me more of the proportions of this guy;
But man they better have a good explanation for this. Also, that artwork alone makes me hope we don't lose the gothicness and grit of the 40k imperium. I'm torn on Guilliman even being back, gives too much hope...and we can't have that.
so one of the pictures is a joke and the other simply looks like a new tactical squad in a same size as death watch. so basicly not larger marines, just the same size as death watch.
Vorian wrote: We were told these new marines were a new unit type. We were told the old marines would remain.
It's not scale creep - it's (in universe) bigger guys!
So now we basically get the full gradient of armor size from tiny Scout Armor all the way up to Centurion? (and, if you want to count it, going through the Mark V Dreadnought to Contemptor and Leviathan).
Yet my metal Terminators still look smaller than an average plastic marine. Nah, not scale creep (sigh). How long till GW put working joints in the new models and we call them Action Figures instead?
We're already there in places. Take a look at the Admech walker and the Tau flyer with their pop-up missiles.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
froper98 wrote: so one of the pictures is a joke and the other simply looks like a new tactical squad in a same size as death watch. so basicly not larger marines, just the same size as death watch.
people are getting worked up over nothing.
No. KK claimed responsibility for the pic as an April fool's joke. The pic is very much real.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/24 10:07:15
Could simply be a matter of perspective? The photograph could be of a painter with dwarfish, Trump-like hands - against those, anything will seem big... well, nearly anything
Thousand Sons: 3850pts / Space Marines Deathwatch 5000pts / Dark Eldar Webway Corsairs 2000pts / Scrapheap Challenged Orks 1500pts / Black Death 1500pts
Wulfmar wrote: Could simply be a matter of perspective? The photograph could be of a painter with dwarfish, Trump-like hands - against those, anything will seem big... well, nearly anything
Look at the Bolters they're holding. They're identical to the one in the leaked image. As are the gorgets and the kneepads.
Crimson wrote: I find it really interesting that they have completely normal Ultramarine tactical squad markings.
Indeed.
1) They look like they're equipped like Tacticals
2) They're painted as Tacticals
3) It's been 7? years since the current Tactical box release, enough time for a refresh of the single best selling box GW make
Occums Razor - they're Tacticals
It's not been 7 years. It's been however long ago the Centurions came out; they redid the Tactical Squad then.
Yeah, they redid the tactical squad box when they gave them the grav weapons in 2013.
Mordian2016 wrote: Upscaling SM would be a mammoth task and a massive annoyance for a considerably large part of the fanbase.
As much as GW are doing great things at the moment, I can't stand the scale creep with new releases.
I'm choosing to believe that it's not all marines being up-sized, but just a special new type of Gulliman's Heros Marines that cost +10 points each or something.
Maybe they are in the fluff only marginaly better than normal marines, so marginal that they could have the same stats. Maybe they just get better equipment. Their main advantage could be a way faster and more reliable production so they will slowly phase out the traditional marines in the fluff.
Hastings mentioned that at least Russ will also return, so non-smurfs might get their own models if their requirement is indeed a primachrs blood.
So do i, changing their most iconic miniature by this much as the new standard make no sense to me. Scaling them up is not such i big deal i think. But changing the armor design by so much i dont think is such a good idea.
Adjusting it a little bit and fine tuning yes. Or having the new one as a alternative.
But changing your classic best seller that everybody love? Would be like coca-cola changing their recipe.(its an example, i dont know if coca-cola ever changed their recipe and if it was successful or not so dont bash me)
Mordian2016 wrote: Upscaling SM would be a mammoth task and a massive annoyance for a considerably large part of the fanbase.
A massive annoyance? The fanbase will be all over the latest shiny. Replacing all their old models with the newest coolest toy. Denouncing anyone who has the inferior old models. I thought that was how a vast amount of the GW fanbase worked.
You remember there are (at least) 8 marks of armour already, not counting bespoke variants and Terminator armour suits? There is no one standard.
And because Marines are the best seller, changing them guarantees most sales.
(Don't start everyone on the New Coke analogies again. We'll be off topic for days)
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
JohnnyHell wrote: You remember there are (at least) 8 marks of armour already, not counting bespoke variants and Terminator armour suits? There is no one standard.
And because Marines are the best seller, changing them guarantees most sales.
(Don't start everyone on the New Coke analogies again. We'll be off topic for days)
Coca-cola is Mark VII Aquila
Coca-cola light is Mark VI Corvus
Coca-cola life is Mark VIII Errant
DanceOfSlaanesh wrote: So do i, changing their most iconic miniature by this much as the new standard make no sense to me. Scaling them up is not such i big deal i think. But changing the armor design by so much i dont think is such a good idea.
Adjusting it a little bit and fine tuning yes. Or having the new one as a alternative.
But changing your classic best seller that everybody love? Would be like coca-cola changing their recipe.(its an example, i dont know if coca-cola ever changed their recipe and if it was successful or not so dont bash me)
I was called New Coke and was a desaster, sometimes in the 90ies IIRC
The pics we have seen so far don't really look that much different from current marines. At a glance, you could easily think they are the same. I think one of those mixed ia current tactical squad will stand out even less than a Deathwatch marine.
I use mainly 2nd editions metals, but I mixed in many different plastics. you really have to look very closely to pick them out.
I'm remembering people were just as annoyed when they moved Marines up to the 32mm bases, said it would be a massive annoyance, etc. It's really not a big deal if they've made them a bit taller.
Thousand Sons: 3850pts / 
Space Marines Deathwatch 5000pts / 
Dark Eldar Webway Corsairs 2000pts / 
Scrapheap Challenged Orks 1500pts / 
Black Death 1500pts
