UK & EU Politics Thread

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**Riquende**

The Sun's front page today seemingly made by someone who did the first module of a photoshop course:

(Things that make Britain great, apparently: Aerobatics display teams, rollercoasters, cryptozoographical creatures, aggressive seabirds, government building/named bell combos, affordable compact cars, pointy buildings, stones arranged in a circle, sheep, nuclear power, old fashioned public transport, sport we're barely competitive in, castles, propellor-engined aeroplanes, aquatic-based fast food. No other country has any of those!)

Spoiler:

Good to see as well that one of the MPs being castigated by DNILT for not standing up for their principles has resigned from the Government, presumably to vote against Brexit today.

So now he's probably a traitor or something.

**Kilkrazy**

It's backfired most amusingly.

MPs vow to defy ‘bullying and threatening’ newspaper headlines on Brexit vote: ‘Murdoch can get stuffed’

**Steve steveson**

r_squared wrote:
It's not even vaguely hidden, it's blatant;

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/09/pro-tory-facebook-group-filled-with-islamophobic-abuse

Apparently Jacob Rees Mogg joined "against his will". I doubt JRM is a dyed in the wool racist, but I imagine he may hold some "old fashioned" views about this sort of thing.

However, he said he was furious to find he had been signed up without his knowledge and had now left. Former minister George Freeman and MPs Glyn Davies and Andrew Rosindell were also listed as members, but all said they had no knowledge of being signed up and left after being alerted to the group’s content.

Bollocks. That’s not how Facebook groups works. That is not a reasonable excuse. They joined this group and either didn’t read what it was doing (failure to do proper checking) or agreed with it. It’s possible (probable) that someone else manages their social media accounts, but that’s not an excuse, and not one they are trying to use. They have been caught and need to own up to it. I am not saying they personally hold those views, but they clearly associate with parts of the party that do.

**reds8n**

Riquende wrote:
The Sun's front page today seemingly made by someone who did the first module of a photoshop course:

(Things that make Britain great, apparently: Aerobatics display teams, rollercoasters, cryptozoographical creatures, aggressive seabirds, government building/named bell combos, affordable compact cars, pointy buildings, stones arranged in a circle, sheep, nuclear power, old fashioned public transport, sport we're barely competitive in, castles, propellor-engined aeroplanes, aquatic-based fast food. No other country has any of those!)

Spoiler:

Good to see as well that one of the MPs being castigated by DNILT for not standing up for their principles has resigned from the Government, presumably to vote against Brexit today.

So now he's probably a traitor or something.

Windsor castle built by Norman duke
Mini designed by Greek Alec Issigonis
Shard designed by Italian Renzo Piano, 95% owned by Qatar,
Loch Ness monster - fictional like sovereignty
Alton Towers Smiler built by Gerstlauer a German firm
The Sun newspaper owned by Australian born American Rupert Murdoch

meanwhile..

dad's army stamps , for the 50th anniversary.

Spoiler:

....

**pgmason**

Wow. Those are genius!

**Future War Cultist**

So my bins are emptied on a Monday right? Well, it’s now Tuesday, and they still aren’t done. And this is the third time in a row it’s happened. That sucks, but the good news is, I now get to call my old boss and tell him how gak he is as a person and a manager whilst sticking my councillor onto him anyway. Yay!

Oh yeah, it’s the Politics thread...it’s great being on a first name basis with your local councillor.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Many people have criticised me before for Brexit. Fair enough, and that is their right.

But look what's going on in The Commons. Are the Remain MPs, fearless defenders of the EU, prepared to die in a ditch for the cause they believe in?

No, they meekly march through and back the government at every turn.

They are Chateau generals, defending the EU from 35 miles behind the front line.

I've said it countless times to Remain supporters and I'll say it again: if these are your 'friends' then I'd hate to see your enemies.

**Whirlwind**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Many people have criticised me before for Brexit. Fair enough, and that is their right.

But look what's going on in The Commons. Are the Remain MPs, fearless defenders of the EU, prepared to die in a ditch for the cause they believe in?

No, they meekly march through and back the government at every turn.

They are Chateau generals, defending the EU from 35 miles behind the front line.

I've said it countless times to Remain supporters and I'll say it again: if these are your 'friends' then I'd hate to see your enemies.

This is the Tories. They will try and put the party ahead of all other considerations and damn the consequences. The question is whether any will take responsibility when they look back at the mess in the future and with guilt wonder whether they could have done anything about it (I'm sure they'll delude themselves into thinking they had no choice). All for a vague promise by a PM that lies through her back teeth at the first opportunity.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Whirlwind wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Many people have criticised me before for Brexit. Fair enough, and that is their right.

But look what's going on in The Commons. Are the Remain MPs, fearless defenders of the EU, prepared to die in a ditch for the cause they believe in?

No, they meekly march through and back the government at every turn.

They are Chateau generals, defending the EU from 35 miles behind the front line.

I've said it countless times to Remain supporters and I'll say it again: if these are your 'friends' then I'd hate to see your enemies.

This is the Tories. They will try and put the party ahead of all other considerations and damn the consequences. The question is whether any will take responsibility when they look back at the mess in the future and with guilt wonder whether they could have done anything about it (I'm sure they'll delude themselves into thinking they had no choice). All for a vague promise by a PM that lies through her back teeth at the first opportunity.

Responsibility?

I'm not laughing at you, whirlwind, I'm just laughing at the notion of them being responsible. In a few years time, they'll be miles away and making 50 grand a speech, or sitting as a director on some bank or corporation somewhere.

I'll still be in Britain come what may.

**Whirlwind**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Responsibility?

I'm not laughing at you, whirlwind, I'm just laughing at the notion of them being responsible. In a few years time, they'll be miles away and making 50 grand a speech, or sitting as a director on some bank or corporation somewhere.

I'll still be in Britain come what may.

Not all of them will be. I doubt many people will want to touch May with a barge pole...

They don't all go on to high earning made up posts spouting nonsense for £50k per talk. It will be the back benchers that look back and realise that they kept on being allowed to slowly slip down the slide one step at a time and betrayed by vague promises.

In other news Arron Banks own quotes on his influence on the referendum...

It ran a "disruptive" campaign instead, Mr Banks told the committee, adding: "We were not above using alternative methods to punch home our message or lead people up the garden path if we had to."

Mr Wigmore, Leave.EU's director of communications, said "the piece of advice that we got, right from the beginning, was remember referendums are not about facts, it's about emotion and you have got to tap into that emotion".

He said the campaign had aimed to "make fun" of journalists and his role in it had been that of an "agent provocateur".

Asked what the difference was between provocation and lies, he said: "If you are trying to sell something or put a good case over to somebody you will tell the best story. If that's provocation - or a lie, if you want to call it that, yeah."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44446632

Basically a psychopath

Not even ashamed that they lied to get what they wanted.

**reds8n**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Many people have criticised me before for Brexit. Fair enough, and that is their right.

But look what's going on in The Commons. Are the Remain MPs, fearless defenders of the EU, prepared to die in a ditch for the cause they believe in?

No, they meekly march through and back the government at every turn.

They are Chateau generals, defending the EU from 35 miles behind the front line.

I've said it countless times to Remain supporters and I'll say it again: if these are your 'friends' then I'd hate to see your enemies.

Our enemies would be the people who, top of my head example, murdered Jo Cox in the street.

Because he fell for the tosh pushed by people like you.

But you keep absolving yourself of all your part in this debacle.

Others will remember.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-12/morgan-stanley-ceo-says-bank-will-move-up-to-500-jobs-from-u-k

Morgan Stanley start moving jobs abroad.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-brexit-bankers/

Frankfurt has emerged as the biggest winner in the fight for thousands of London-based jobs that will have to be relocated to new hubs inside the European Union after Brexit.

Morgan Stanley, Citigroup Inc., Standard Chartered Plc and Nomura Holdings Inc have picked the German city for their EU headquarters to ensure continued access to the single market. Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and UBS Group AG are weighing a similar decision, said people familiar with the matter, asking not to be named because the plans aren’t public. HSBC Holdings Plc is the biggest non-French bank so far to opt for Paris, while Barclays Bank Plc has plumped for Dublin.

London could lose 10,000 banking jobs and 20,000 roles in financial services as clients move 1.8 trillion euros ($2.1 trillion) of assets out of the U.K. on Brexit, according to think-tank Bruegel. The implications for the U.K. are substantial: finance and related professional services bring in some £190 billion ($248 billion) a year, representing 12 percent of the British economy.

We’re tracking jobs that the banks say they plan to move, with updates to follow.

but that's all project fear isn't it eh ? #

**Whirlwind**

reds8n wrote:

Our enemies would be the people who, top of my head example, murdered Jo Cox in the street.

Because he fell for the tosh pushed by people like you.

But you keep absolving yourself of all your part in this debacle.

Or this nasty little ****

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44452529

Others will remember.

I wonder how much people care though, once they have got what they want. It will never be their responsibility, it will be those left behind trying to pick up the pieces as they "didn't work at it" or other such nonsense

Morgan Stanley start moving jobs abroad.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-brexit-bankers/

but that's all project fear isn't it eh ? #

hat's 15% already and we haven't even got to Wrexit it yet. My guess is there will be another wave afterwards and then an increasing trickle as London's influence wanes and others grow. People complain about what Greece did. I wonder how long it will be until we are propped up by super rich billionaires that then drive what the country is?

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Seriously.

Second referendum time.

One where Leave can’t simply lie through their teeth.

It’s time.

**Kilkrazy**

But! But! BUT!!!

THEWILLOFTHEPEOPLE

**Future War Cultist**

3 answer referendum?

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Nope.

Two questions.

Remain in Europe.

Piss our economy up the wall.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
See, the light weight fascism being spouted by the gutter press points to one thing - sovereignty isn’t an argument.

Literally any attempt to wrest control of the process from the moronic hands of BoJo, Slugboy and Moggy is seen as an attempt to halt the entire process.

There’s a difference between leaving the EU. And a far right Five Tissue Fantasy.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

@reds8n

So who's to blame for Brexit?

A Remain MP with power to stop it, but who does nothing?

Or an ordinary joe who has no power beyond posting on a wargames forum?

Whatever else people may think of me, I'm pretty consistent in my beliefs, which is why I rarely back causes.

I don't pledge undying support for the EU one minute, then vote to make Brexit possible the next.

I have a spine. Remain MPs do not.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Who’s to blame for Brexit?

YOU?

The sort of mindless cretin who’d vote out, and damn the rammifications and logistics?

We.

Told.

You.

So.

You,

Shat.

The.

Bed.

Go and get your mop already, you bellend.

**Kilkrazy**

I think it should be a 3 option referendum with transferable alternative voting. The questions would be:

1. Stay in the EU after all.
1. Accept whatever deal the government has worked out if there actually is one.
1. Hard Brexit to WTO rules immediately. No mucking around.

A decision has to be made, even if it is a choice between crap, arse, and bollocks.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Kilkrazy wrote:
But! But! BUT!!!

THEWILLOFTHEPEOPLE

Your allies in the Commons are cowards. That's the bottom line.

To hear them bleat about a newspaper calling them a nasty name is risible.

If they as MPs love the EU so much, then back the EU and answer for your decision next election.

But they don't have the guts to do that.

**Mozzyfuzzy**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
@reds8
So who's to blame for Brexit?

A Remain MP with power to stop it, but who does nothing?

Or an ordinary joe who has no power beyond posting on a wargames forum?

Whatever else people may think of me, I'm pretty consistent in my beliefs, which is why I rarely back causes.

I don't pledge undying support for the EU one minute, then vote to make Brexit possible the next.

I have a spine. Remain MPs do not.

Do you actually not get that how they vote as a person and how they vote in parliament as MP's representing constituencies are different things?

Yet here you are calling them spineless, while you sit comfortable chatting nonsense at the best of times.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Also, you may have a spine, shame you’ve no brain.

Brexit is going to feth us over. Big style.

But you don’t care, do you? When it all blows up in our collective faces, it’s evident you’ll accept precisely no responsibility.

Hence my post pages back, hoping you personally suffer the aftermath. That you lose your job. That you lose your home. That you end up on the scrap heap with barely a penny to your name.

Because if pricks like you emerge from this smelling like roses, there’s proof that the world has no justice.

You.

You caused this.

And it’s time you had to face up to your own personal idiocy.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Who’s to blame for Brexit?

YOU?

The sort of mindless cretin who’d vote out, and damn the rammifications and logistics?

We.

Told.

You.

So.

You,

Shat.

The.

Bed.

Go and get your mop already, you bellend.

When people ask me for an opinion on an issue, they can't complain if they don't like the answer.

Otherwise, they should not have asked.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

text removed.

reds8n

**Mozzyfuzzy**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Who’s to blame for Brexit?

YOU?

The sort of mindless cretin who’d vote out, and damn the rammifications and logistics?

We.

Told.

You.

So.

You,

Shat.

The.

Bed.

Go and get your mop already, you bellend.

When people ask me for an opinion on an issue, they can't complain if they don't like the answer.

Otherwise, they should not have asked.

Nobody asked you for your opinion on remain MP's representing their constituents though, but please tell us more about how you aren't to blame for espousing your opinion.

**Future War Cultist**

Kilkrazy wrote:
I think it should be a 3 option referendum with transferable alternative voting. The questions would be:

1. Stay in the EU after all.
1. Accept whatever deal the government has worked out if there actually is one.
1. Hard Brexit to WTO rules immediately. No mucking around.

A decision has to be made, even if it is a choice between crap, arse, and bollocks.

This. Assuming that the deal will basically be something along the lines as EFTA. I accept that we have to work with Europe. That’s a fact. I just don’t want to be sucked further in to the superstate. See I genuinely believe that the bigger a democracy gets, the more detached from the voters the leaders become, and the EU is my case in point (America gets it too).

**Kilkrazy**

I would be grateful if you would moderate your language towards other users with whom you disagree..

Please remember the forum rules.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Mozzyfuzzy wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
@reds8
So who's to blame for Brexit?

A Remain MP with power to stop it, but who does nothing?

Or an ordinary joe who has no power beyond posting on a wargames forum?

Whatever else people may think of me, I'm pretty consistent in my beliefs, which is why I rarely back causes.

I don't pledge undying support for the EU one minute, then vote to make Brexit possible the next.

I have a spine. Remain MPs do not.

Do you actually not get that how they vote as a person and how they vote in parliament as MP's representing constituencies are different things?

Yet here you are calling them spineless, while you sit comfortable chatting nonsense at the best of times.

Dr Lee was elected on a manifesto pledge to leave the CU.

Today he moaned about Brexit being bad and something about his conscience.

Didn't seem to bother him last year though at the general election, did it?

And these two faced rats are the champions of the EU.

You don't need allies like that

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Future War Cultist wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
I think it should be a 3 option referendum with transferable alternative voting. The questions would be:

1. Stay in the EU after all.
1. Accept whatever deal the government has worked out if there actually is one.
1. Hard Brexit to WTO rules immediately. No mucking around.

A decision has to be made, even if it is a choice between crap, arse, and bollocks.

This. Assuming that the deal will basically be something along the lines as EFTA. I accept that we have to work with Europe. That’s a fact. I just don’t want to be sucked further in to the superstate. See I genuinely believe that the bigger a democracy gets, the more detached from the voters the leaders become, and the EU is my case in point (America gets it too).

But closer and closer ties are, globally, inevitable.

Look at human history. Why resist now?

Time was, the leader of maybe 50 people was a King. Then it was 100. And so on and so forth.

A one World government is an inevitability. Why ostracise and marginalises ourselves now?

**Mozzyfuzzy**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Mozzyfuzzy wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
@reds8
So who's to blame for Brexit?

A Remain MP with power to stop it, but who does nothing?

Or an ordinary joe who has no power beyond posting on a wargames forum?

Whatever else people may think of me, I'm pretty consistent in my beliefs, which is why I rarely back causes.

I don't pledge undying support for the EU one minute, then vote to make Brexit possible the next.

I have a spine. Remain MPs do not.

Do you actually not get that how they vote as a person and how they vote in parliament as MP's representing constituencies are different things?

Yet here you are calling them spineless, while you sit comfortable chatting nonsense at the best of times.

Dr Lee was elected on a manifesto pledge to leave the CU.

Today he moaned about Brexit being bad and something about his conscience.

Didn't seem to bother him last year though at the general election, did it?

And these two faced rats are the champions of the EU.

You don't need allies like that

Do we honestly have to go over why the last general election wasn't a single issue general election?

Do you want to talk about rampant crime somewhere while we wait?