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 Kilkrazy wrote:
The EU has bigger fish to fry than pissant UK's nuts.

It's all politics, and let's not forget, the UK press and politicians have been sending the insults to Brussels for years. They wouldn't be human if a tiny part of them secretly didn't want a chance to put a boot up our rear.


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 Mr. Burning wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
They haven't got the guts. The time to walk was Friday night, but they bottled it. Again.

They are now relying on the EU to do their dirty work for them, and shoot this down in flames on the basis that the four freedoms are non-negotiable.

But if the EU are smart and devious, they will string this along for a few months to keep May afloat, then hit us in the Autumn with a triple whammy of demands, right on the eve of the deadline.


May being May will roll up the white flag, and the EU will well and truly have us over a barrel.


That is my great fear: that the EU might pretend to be flexible on the 4 freedoms. In private, we know they never could be, but if they're devious with faux public announcements, they could really hit us in the nuts.

It pays the EU to be straight in their negotiations. The government is causing their own downfall, Cameron got out when the getting was good!


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 Kilkrazy wrote:
The EU has bigger fish to fry than pissant UK's nuts.

Playing it straight sends a stronger message to the member states especially those with governments whos members are vocal.

Cameron's sunning himself at Wimbledon.

I utterly loathe that man.

Well they are, so it's up to the rest of us to get stuff done.

Lobby your MP, and your Labour candidate if you're in a Tory area. Push for soft Brexit.

If you're lucky enough to be in an LDP, SNP, Plaid Cymru, Sinn Fein or Green Party area, you're on the side of the angels already. Send money to the Best For Britain campaign.

www.bestforbritain.org

If you're in a UKIP area, re-read this post for more information.

My SNP MP is a die-hard Remainer, so we have nothing in common in that regard.

None the less, I think you're missing an important point: if you're relying on MPs to get anything done, you've come to the wrong place.

On my side, the Brexiteers have shown themselves to be a spineless bunch.

On your Remain side, your lot could have stopped Brexit at any time and lived with the consequences at the ballot box, but they too rolled up the white flag.

There is not a single man or woman in the Commons who stands up for what they believe in anymore.

Why any of us bother with that lot anymore is beyond me.

Oh just stop with blaming it on Remain.

Seriously.

You’re not fooling anyone.

The EU won't string us along; they can continue to remain squeaky clean and leave us to look like fools.

You're right; remain MPs could have killed this off long ago, but you'd be enraged with that too.

The brexiteers are spineless because they don't have the majority or any ideas to make it work. Let's not forget Johnson expected leave to fail and only backed it to position himself to take over from Cameron. That's the kind of liars you are backing.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:That is my great fear: that the EU might pretend to be flexible on the 4 freedoms. In private, we know they never could be, but if they're devious with faux public announcements, they could really hit us in the nuts.

From what I have read/heard of the situation it was the UK that was asking for flexibility on the four freedoms (because the UK wanted its own special solution) but the EU was always clear that this won't be happening and is not negotiable. The four freedoms are intertwined and you either accept all or none. But the UK kept "negotiating" as if that no was just a starting point while the EU was adamant and clear about this position.

I don't know what Brexit news you were reading if you don't know that and find reasons to speculate about some devious EU plan when it comes to the four freedoms.

David ‘incompetence personified’ Davis has quit.

Dawn Sturgess has died. I suspect that this will have implications for Britain's international relations with Russia.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:David ‘incompetence personified’ Davis has quit.

Did the penny finaly drop? Or has he just had a massive strop becouse he cant get his unicorn pony after all?

BaronIveagh wrote:Dawn Sturgess has died. I suspect that this will have implications for Britain's international relations with Russia.

Maybe, if we had a goverment that was half way competent and not engaged in constant damage control over self inflicted wounds for the sake of votes at the last election.

Well, who knows?

But the Brexit has hit the fan.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
David ‘incompetence personified’ Davis has quit.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Dawn Sturgess has died. I suspect that this will have implications for Britain's international relations with Russia.

It would certainly be very convenient to distract people from the disaster that is Brexit. If the disaster isn't too big by now.

GoatboyBeta wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:David ‘incompetence personified’ Davis has quit.

Did the penny finaly drop? Or has he just had a massive strop becouse he cant get his unicorn pony after all?

He was going to quit anyway, citing Brexit as his last big job.

David Davis 'will retire and leave Brexit transition to Boris Johnson'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/02/david-davis-plans-retire-brexit-secretary-uk-leaves-eu-2019/

Might as well leave now with a semblance of face.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Dawn Sturgess has died. I suspect that this will have implications for Britain's international relations with Russia.

It would certainly be very convenient to distract people from the disaster that is Brexit. If the disaster isn't too big by now.

Don't talk twaddle. This is about as likely to distract people from Brexit as a party blower at a fireworks display.


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jouso wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:David ‘incompetence personified’ Davis has quit.

Did the penny finaly drop? Or has he just had a massive strop becouse he cant get his unicorn pony after all?

He was going to quit anyway, citing Brexit as his last big job.

David Davis 'will retire and leave Brexit transition to Boris Johnson'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/02/david-davis-plans-retire-brexit-secretary-uk-leaves-eu-2019/

Might as well leave now with a semblance of face.

The man was a bullheaded, low browed, blow hard who got burned by Europe when he was part of the UK sugar industry and let that one event colour his entire skewed worldview. The fact that he made it to become a minister is an indictment of the low standards accepted for politicians and a result of Brexit "affirmitive action". May needed Brexiteers in her cabinet, and he was one of the noisiest.

No doubt he will return to the backbenches to shoot his mouth off about things he doesn't understand, the thick gakker.

So to clarify:

In 2 years, Davis met for negotiations for about 4 hours, and couldn't even say whether his department were producing impact assessments etc over Brexit. It's just about justifiable given that with no agreed UK position there was very little that could really be agreed to, minor technical stuff mostly. All this whilst attending cabinet, being driven around in ministerial cars, etc.

But with a unified cabinet position on Brexit agreed on a Friday, it was looking dangerously like ol' Dave would be having to do some actual work on the Monday so made sure he resigned before that could happen.

Sir Bernard Jenkin on Radio 4 this morning, said Davies had no option but to resign because he's been working on a major plan for months and suddenly the PM comes up with her own one which replaces Davies's.

All well and good, but where was Davies's plan? He never had one, as far as I can see. He took months to produce the impact assessments and those turned out to be mere scamps.

Needless to say Jenkin is a major Brexiteer and fixated on delivering THEWILLOFTHEPEOPLE.

By which he of course means what he wants.

I take back what I said yesterday. At least somebody has the guts to stand up for Britain.

This could be the end of May.

Mogg and his cohorts are meeting today, so if I were Sir Graham Brady, I'd be expecting a pile of letters on my desk.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I take back what I said yesterday. At least somebody has the guts to stand up for Britain.

This could be the end of May.

Mogg and his cohorts are meeting today, so if I were Sir Graham Brady, I'd be expecting a pile of letters on my desk.

Who is standing up for Britain? Nobody in politics pushing for Brexit is, they're just standing for their own selfish interests.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I take back what I said yesterday. At least somebody has the guts to stand up for Britain.

This could be the end of May.

Mogg and his cohorts are meeting today, so if I were Sir Graham Brady, I'd be expecting a pile of letters on my desk.

Wait, What? Who's standing up for Britain?

Are you reading the same news as the rest of us?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I take back what I said yesterday. At least somebody has the guts to stand up for Britain.

This could be the end of May.

Mogg and his cohorts are meeting today, so if I were Sir Graham Brady, I'd be expecting a pile of letters on my desk.

Who is standing up for Britain? Nobody in politics pushing for Brexit is, they're just standing for their own selfish interests.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but are you not a Labour supporter? If you are, and I say this to other dakka members who support Labour as well,

but you lot should be happy. Corbyn's probably picking out new wallpaper designs for No.10

Corbyn might also turn the No.10 back garden into an allotment.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I take back what I said yesterday. At least somebody has the guts to stand up for Britain.

This could be the end of May.

Mogg and his cohorts are meeting today, so if I were Sir Graham Brady, I'd be expecting a pile of letters on my desk.

Who is standing up for Britain? Nobody in politics pushing for Brexit is, they're just standing for their own selfish interests.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


but you lot should be happy. Corbyn's probably picking out new wallpaper designs for No.10

I'd be happier about that if I thought that Corbyn would be able to work with both wings of the party, and also if I thought Labour had a viable plan to minimise the damage of Brexit or stop it completely.

Oh FFS.

Gove ‘be generous or we’ll walk away’

EU. Bye then.

Dominic Raab appointed to Brexit Sec. A prominent Leave campaigner but I don’t remember whether he was of the hard or soft variety. Guessing the latter if he’s picked up the reigns with Friday’s deal still the official line.

Raab's just a smokescreen. It's clear that May was rolling up the white flag to the EU from day 1.

A Remain PM, Remain Chancellor, Olly Robbins at the Civil Service, and now we're hearing the Chief Whip is doing the rounds with Labour MPs.

Brexit never stood a chance and if my side wants to save Brexit, it's clear what needs to happen.


EFTA/EEA is now the only game in town for the Brexit supporters, because otherwise, we have the risk of Remain seizing the reigns and us being back in the EU quicker than you can say Jean-Claude Juncker. And in such a weakened position, the EU's pound of flesh will be the Eurozone.

With EFTA/EEA, we can at least salvage something from this fiasco, regroup, sweep these incompetent fethers from power, and keep the Brexit battle going for another day.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

This could be the end of May.

May has already ended? It is July already...
...
...
...
Okay, I'll show myself out.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

This could be the end of May.

May has already ended? It is July already...
...
...
...
Okay, I'll show myself out.

If you want to do something useful, find out what happened at the World Cup opening ceremony. Where were the T-34s?

Back OT.

If there's one piece of good news from this, it's the destruction of the Conservative party. Who would vote for this shambles at the next election?

Corbyn got criticised for his wait and see policy, but it looks like he's been vindicated.

https://twitter.com/melanielatest/status/1016252131832139776?s=21

I’ve said it before: draft Farage. Sack May, give Farage a peerage, make him party leader and PM – at least until UK really does properly leave the EU. Too fanciful? Desperate times need desperate measures; public faith in democratic process now in danger

Seems rational. Parachute Farage in to the top of the Tory party....

But in reality, does anything sum up being British more than the bolded part in the quote? There's no attempt to justify why the mooted 'desperate measure' will work... just the idea that when things are going to crap might as well do something crazy to see if that works.

It’s almost as if Farage’s supporters don’t actually understand what democracy is?

 Riquende wrote:
https://twitter.com/melanielatest/status/1016252131832139776?s=21

I’ve said it before: draft Farage. Sack May, give Farage a peerage, make him party leader and PM – at least until UK really does properly leave the EU. Too fanciful? Desperate times need desperate measures; public faith in democratic process now in danger

Seems rational. Parachute Farage in to the top of the Tory party....

But in reality, does anything sum up being British more than the bolded part in the quote? There's no attempt to justify why the mooted 'desperate measure' will work... just the idea that when things are going to crap might as well do something crazy to see if that works.

As it stands, doing a Rudolf Hess and parachuting Farage into Brussels may be our only option left

Part of me is overjoyed, because ever since the 1980s, I've always wanted to see the day the Tories self-destructed.

But another part of me is bitterly disappointed that Brexit could end up going down the pan because of the sheer ineptitude of the Conservative party.

They have been nothing but a millstone around this nation's neck