Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

But two years have passed, and now we have to deal with the new reality of this debacle the Tories have inflicted on us.

You inflicted it on yourself, by ignoring all of the experts.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

May's red lines carry no weight outside her office door. They're meaningless now - because she's a lame duck PM. Forget the red lines.

Mays red lines were always a joke. We knew that from the second they came out of her mouth. We knew that when the Leave campaign promised them.

For me, the most important thing now is the psychological act of moving out of the EU, and even though it could be EFTA/EEA, I'll take it.

What benefit is the psychological act of moving out of the EU? The splitting of the UK politically? To make the Leavers feel like they "won" something whilst everyone else deals with the fall out.

And gak the psychological benefits if there are no physical benefits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

I voted for Brexit, and I would vote for it again tomorrow. I make no apologies for my anti-EU stance.

Yet you've been utterly unable to come up with any credible justifaction for it, beyond a stream of easily disproven hyperbole.

None the less, it's crystal clear the Tories couldn't find their backsides without a map and compass, so as a stopgap, a staging post to a complete Brexit down the line..

And seem to be completely oblivious to the consequences. You'd still vote for Brexit knowing it to be a clusterfeth, because (to us, anyway) it seems that all you care about is leaving the EU, even if it leaves us "bashing rocks in a cave" (paraphrasing yourself). You must understand why that hurts your credibility?

I've got nothing against you perfectly, and would gladly buy you a bru at a show, but gak me, you're not doing yourself any favours here.

Boris Johnson has resigned.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44770847

It looks like the wheels finally are coming off the Brexit wagon.

Surely this is the end of May?

But I've thought that so much over the last year, I dunno how she keeps going. Maybe everyone knows its an impossible job and nobody else wants it?

What happens if we have not got a Prime Minister for the Nato Summit/ Trump visit......guess he gets to play a bit more golf?

Herbington wrote:
Surely this is the end of May?

But I've thought that so much over the last year, I dunno how she keeps going. Maybe everyone knows its an impossible job and nobody else wants it?

It depends on how much support Hard Brexit really has in the parliamentary Tory Party.

They may be able to muster the 48 letters to the 1922 Committee to trigger a leadership contest, but if they don't think they can manage to get a majority behind Gove, Johnson or A N Other, they may not want to do it.

Remember that changing the head of the Conservative Party doesn't in itself trigger a general election.

This is genuinely glorious.

We are going to end up with Rees Mog as the PM, and the poor will have to eat each other to survive, in Dickensian workhouses.

And it's all the fault of some people that didn't like a few foreigners and believed a bus.

Bookies are slashing the odds of another General Election. Wouldn't be at all surprised.

Friendly reminder to Remainers - the Lib Dems are the only major political party against Brexit. Vote for them.

Unless you're in Scotland, Wales or the North of Ireland

What is the path to a general election?

The Conservatives can change their leader, and therefore the PM, either by dumping May or by May resigning.

This does not trigger a GE, though.

Crispy78 wrote:
Bookies are slashing the odds of another General Election. Wouldn't be at all surprised.

Friendly reminder to Remainers - the Lib Dems are the only major political party against Brexit. Vote for them.

It's not about being against Brexit. As much as I'd like to just be stopped, it won't be.

It's obvious the Conservative party cannot deliver a plan, let alone brexit. So you have a clear choice should a GE be called.

Conservative: No Deal
Labour: A clear plan (already set out by Starmer)

BUT BUT CORBYN IS A COMMUNIST

Fingers crossed I'll be out of this utter clusterfeth, especially if the general public vote in Rees Mog. You get what you deserve people

... that's quite an epitaph for four hours work over two years eh ?

it's been quite a trip



..

Boris as foreign sec seemed like such a good idea all along eh ?




Still Trump arrives in a few days, so that's bound to help calm things down.
https://twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/595112367358406656

3 May 2015

Britain faces a simple and inescapable choice - stability and strong Government with me, or chaos with Ed Miliban

this aged well huh ?

Credibility? Since when did I have credibility?

I joke of course, and people are entitled to their opinions, but it's not something I lose sleep over.

Back OT.

I suspect that May will probably do a John Major and hang on to the bitter end...

As for another GE, I don't mind voting. No voting fatigue from me.

UKIP are saying that membership is rising. Farage is testing the waters on twitter...

Here we go again...

Waiting to see how Labour reacts.

For years, the Tories have always used the 1970s and James Callaghan as a stick to beat Labour with.

That line of attack died today for evermore...

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Credibility? Since when did I have credibility?

I joke of course, and people are entitled to their opinions, but it's not something I lose sleep over.

Back OT.

I suspect that May will probably do a John Major and hang on to the bitter end...

As for another GE, I don't mind voting. No voting fatigue from me.

UKIP are saying that membership is rising. Farage is testing the waters on twitter...

Here we go again...

A load of disgustingly self-serving baby-boomers will put someone like Rees Mog in charge. I hope he bankrupts them

Can someone sum up in a paragraph what the heck is going on over there? Is May just not a good PM? Is the EU playing hardball screwing up Brexit? I have to admit I haven't been following this that closely.

I am paying attention to the London Real Estate Market tho, because when that starts to teeter, it's prob a sign of crappy economic times ahead.

The Tories.

Party First and Only, doing what the Tories do best.

Think that sums it up?

What's going on is a war between the pro- and anti-EU wings of the Conservative Party, with a few of the top nobs (like Johnson) trying to position themselves as next Prime Minister.

 KTG17 wrote:
Can someone sum up in a paragraph what the heck is going on over there? Is May just not a good PM? Is the EU playing hardball screwing up Brexit? I have to admit I haven't been following this that closely.

I am paying attention to the London Real Estate Market tho, because when that starts to teeter, it's prob a sign of crappy economic times ahead.

May is weak. She called a snap general election to consolidate her parliamentary majority, and lost it instead, requiring a deal with the DUP party from Northern Ireland to form a majority.

Brexit is a shambles. The guy in charge of it, David Davis, has just quit after what sounds very much like being rumbled at having done about 4 hours of useful work in 2 years. The EU aren't playing hardball so much as just stating that, if you want the benefits of belonging to the EU, then you need to be a member of the EU. We seem to think we can argue that for some bloody reason.

I can't remember who it was, one of the EU countries' Prime Ministers, posted a beautiful tweet that summed it up in a nutshell. Was essentially "First they wanted to be in with a load of opt-outs. Now they want to be out with a load of opt-ins".

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1016350766288789504

Rumours they have now got enough signatures to force a confidence vote....

Good.

A leadership contest is bad news for Remainers and Brexit supporters.

3 months of navel gazing by the Tories puts us both up gak alley.


For Remain, it increases the chances of crashing out with no deal.


For the Brexit side, by the time 3 months is over, October is upon us and that deadline. The last man or woman standing might be desperate to grab any deal, no matter how bad...

Or repeal the whole thing and start it over.

Because that’s an option.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Or repeal the whole thing and start it over.

Because that’s an option.

This. Request the EU to accept the withdrawal of Article 50.

If people still want to leave, they can come up with a plan beforehand, demonstrate how it uses existing technology to solve border issues (no magical system which will solve all of the issues but hasn't even begun development yet), show how it would be an acceptable position for the EU to accept (none of this "eat cake and have it too" nonsense we've ended up with where we will leave but retain all the benefits we want) and a legitimate prediction of the economic impacts.

When they have that, we'll talk about another referendum to leave again. They will campaign in said referendum only on what is included in that document. Any claims not included in that document used by politicians involved in the campaign or by the press will be met with fines as an attempt to mislead the public. We will not have a repeat of the factual void that was the original referendum.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Or repeal the whole thing and start it over.

Because that’s an option.

Too much water under the bridge for that. I feel vindicated about pushing for EFTA/EEA, because it's the only thing that can pull us out of the fire, calm things down for a couple of years, and bridge the gap between the 52 and the 48.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Or repeal the whole thing and start it over.

Because that’s an option.

This. Request the EU to accept the withdrawal of Article 50.

If people still want to leave, they can come up with a plan beforehand, demonstrate how it uses existing technology to solve border issues, show how it would be an acceptable position for the EU to accept (none of this "eat cake and have it too" nonsense we've ended up with where we will leave but retain all the benefits we want) and a legitimate prediction of the economic impacts.

When they have that, we'll talk about another referendum to leave again.

And no writing gak on buses!

Let's have a snap poll. Who's in favour of an EFTA/EEA compromise?

There's me, Future War, and Kilkrazy seems open to the idea.

That's two votes and 1 possible vote, in favour.

Crispy78 wrote:

 KTG17 wrote:
Can someone sum up in a paragraph what the heck is going on over there? Is May just not a good PM? Is the EU playing hardball screwing up Brexit? I have to admit I haven't been following this that closely.

I am paying attention to the London Real Estate Market tho, because when that starts to teeter, it's prob a sign of crappy economic times ahead.

May is weak. She called a snap general election to consolidate her parliamentary majority, and lost it instead, requiring a deal with the DUP party from Northern Ireland to form a majority.

Brexit is a shambles. The guy in charge of it, David Davis, has just quit after what sounds very much like being rumbled at having done about 4 hours of useful work in 2 years. The EU aren't playing hardball so much as just stating that, if you want the benefits of belonging to the EU, then you need to be a member of the EU. We seem to think we can argue that for some bloody reason.

I can't remember who it was, one of the EU countries' Prime Ministers, posted a beautiful tweet that summed it up in a nutshell. Was essentially "First they wanted to be in with a load of opt-outs. Now they want to be out with a load of opt-ins".

Well, if May gets booted out, it does seem like a short stay. I feel like I am used to seeing these PMs last longer. Would this be REALLY embarrassing for her to get booted out this soon? Whats the shortest a PM has lasted in office?

I will say this, I am not English, but when I see May and listen to her talk, I don't get much of a confidence thing from her. She might be a smart woman, but she just doesn't come across as tough enough. Especially after that whole russian nerve agent attack thing. She just might not be the right person for the job at this time.

Boris seems like a clown to me. I am not sure how he has gotten as far as he has either.

BoJo?

Old Etonian Boys Club explains him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Canning#Prime_Minister

To this day Canning's total period in office remains the shortest of any Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, a mere 119 days. He is buried in Westminster Abbey

things you learnt off beermats # 34.