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He’s killed enough people while in charge of the NHS, let him be foreign secretary and kill a few more.

GoatboyBeta wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Jeremy Hunt as Foreign Secretary????

You gotta be fething kidding me!!!!

That's it. I'm out. Somebody phone up North Korea, because I'm defecting!!!

Long live Marxism-Leninism. Workers of the world unite!!!

I need a drink...

Yes but he is a better choice for the job than Boris(that said Larry the number 10 cat would have been a better choice than Boris).

Putting the cat in charge of Brexit negotiation would probably be a smart move at this point as well.

Also, welcome comrade DINLT. Let's build the people's paradise and advance together towards the shining horizons of communism! I hope you like the colour red, motivational slogans and overly long speeches.

The most important thing is that they have finally moved Jeremy witch away from the NHS. They will be many very happy health workers tonight.

The BBC has mentioned that all four great offices of state are now held by people who voted Remain -- PM, chancellor, home office minister, foreign minister.

This risks upsetting May's careful balance between Remainers and Leavers in the cabinet.

I suppose the problem is that though Leavers are noisier, Remainers actually are thicker on the ground and it's getting hard to avoid tapping them as the Leave talent resigns.

‪All seems like political manoeuvring to me. Boris is hoping May’s government will collapse, as it’s on the verge now, and he can make a run at leadership.‬ Boris looks after himself at the expense of everything else, his resignation was a publicity stunt as he got photographers in to take posed pictures of him during his resignation. It plays into Boris’ hands to go now, he again can make the claim he’s going because May is betraying brexit, which undermines May and puts himself at the front for a pro brexit leadership bid.

May should have had the strength to get rid of Boris long ago for being an incompetent but he’s been deciding when to come and go of his own accord, working up his personal profile, and she’s gone along with it.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Only EU citizens have the right to move to other EU countries. Non-EU citizens, such as Syrians, only have the normal rights their citizenship grants them.

Also there is a perception that Europe is getting flooded with refugees and economic migrants through the Mediterranean.



Actually the situation has stabilised to pre-Syrian war levels.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The BBC has mentioned that all four great offices of state are now held by people who voted Remain -- PM, chancellor, home office minister, foreign minister.

This risks upsetting May's careful balance between Remainers and Leavers in the cabinet.

I suppose the problem is that though Leavers are noisier, Remainers actually are thicker on the ground and it's getting hard to avoid tapping them as the Leave talent resigns.

I think talent is overly generous.

jouso wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Only EU citizens have the right to move to other EU countries. Non-EU citizens, such as Syrians, only have the normal rights their citizenship grants them.

Also there is a perception that Europe is getting flooded with refugees and economic migrants through the Mediterranean.



Actually the situation has stabilised to pre-Syrian war levels.

Yes, that influx was down to destabilised regions that the UK and France both had a hand in creating. The numbers have reduced significantly now because simply the people that want to get out have left or the people that try to get out of Syria are given a chemical weapon hand grenade as a going away present.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Jeremy Hunt as Foreign Secretary????

You gotta be fething kidding me!!!!

That's it. I'm out. Somebody phone up North Korea, because I'm defecting!!!

Long live Marxism-Leninism. Workers of the world unite!!!

I need a drink...

Yes but he is a better choice for the job than Boris(that said Larry the number 10 cat would have been a better choice than Boris).

Putting the cat in charge of Brexit negotiation would probably be a smart move at this point as well.

Also, welcome comrade DINLT. Let's build the people's paradise and advance together towards the shining horizons of communism! I hope you like the colour red, motivational slogans and overly long speeches.

I heard the reason for those overlong speeches was to make the wait in the breadline more acceptable.

No all jokes aside, newspaper i got today thinks that the whole thing was a attempt of Johnson to overthrow the government and get himself a chance at beeing PM.
My question now is, is that even feasible for him?

 r_squared wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The BBC has mentioned that all four great offices of state are now held by people who voted Remain -- PM, chancellor, home office minister, foreign minister.

This risks upsetting May's careful balance between Remainers and Leavers in the cabinet.

I suppose the problem is that though Leavers are noisier, Remainers actually are thicker on the ground and it's getting hard to avoid tapping them as the Leave talent resigns.

I think talent is overly generous.

The quality of the replacements is not great either. I think we are at the stage of scraping the bottom of the barrel in the Tory party.

We have a housing minister (Malthouse) who is on record taking a zero tolerance against homeless people on wealthy streets and forcibly moving them on
and is quoted as saying

We certainly instituted a policy of making life - it sounds counterintuitive and cruel - more uncomfortable; that is absolutely right,

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/new-housing-minister-kit-malthouse-operated-callous-policy-to-make-life-more-uncomfortable-for-rough-sleepers_uk_5b43895fe4b07aea7542aa1a?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics

and then we have Raab who until very recently was member of a facebook group that supported worhkhouses for the poor and privatising the NHS...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dominic-raab-tory-housing-minister-facebook-group-workhouses-council-housing-a8213846.html

Conveniently he disn't realise he was a member. Does that really wash these days? and his views on equality are equally 'fascinating' such as

In fact, the gender pay gap also reflects the higher numbers of women in work in Britain compared to other European countries. Keeping women out of work is one of the easiest ways to bridge the gap: Swaziland and Sir Lanka have the lowest pay gaps.

So the solution to the pay gap, stop women working and then they can't complain?

https://web.archive.org/web/20110127081130/https://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/21098/dominic_raab_we_must_end_feminist_bigotry.html

The “I didn’t know i was a member of that Facebook group” is the modern version of “I didn’t click anything. The porn website opened itself. It’s one of those pop ups”.

The reason these Torys get away with it is because far too many of their voters either fall in to the “you could put a blue rosette on a potato” camp or the “I don’t use internet banking because internet hackers will steal my money. I much rather take £1000 out of a cash point and keep it on my mantelpiece” group of voters (the same ones who would phone me up in credit control and want to give me car details over the phone because it is safer than putting them in to some website...)

Not Online!!! wrote:

My question now is, is that even feasible for him?

He'll think it is.

https://twitter.com/JohnMQC/status/1016339437184266240

Meeting the worst Foreign Secretary we’ve ever had amongst the destruction of Hurricane Irma in Anguilla. Disinterested and out of his depth he cared nothing for our situation. Good riddance

Attorney General of Anguilla

 reds8n wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

My question now is, is that even feasible for him?

He'll think it is.

https://twitter.com/JohnMQC/status/1016339437184266240

Meeting the worst Foreign Secretary we’ve ever had amongst the destruction of Hurricane Irma in Anguilla. Disinterested and out of his depth he cared nothing for our situation. Good riddance

Attorney General of Anguilla

I seriously hope for you, that that is a joke....
If not, good ridance i say.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Jeremy Hunt as Foreign Secretary????

You gotta be fething kidding me!!!!

That's it. I'm out. Somebody phone up North Korea, because I'm defecting!!!

Long live Marxism-Leninism. Workers of the world unite!!!

I need a drink...

Brexit's in the news nowadays more than the NHS - more chances for journalists to "accidentally" mispronounce his name ...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The BBC has mentioned that all four great offices of state are now held by people who voted Remain -- PM, chancellor, home office minister, foreign minister.

This risks upsetting May's careful balance between Remainers and Leavers in the cabinet.

I suppose the problem is that though Leavers are noisier, Remainers actually are thicker on the ground and it's getting hard to avoid tapping them as the Leave talent resigns.

Did the PM vote for Remain? I know she said she did, but she's shown no evidence of it subsequently.

I'm pretty sure that May (Home sec. at the time remember) was on record before the referendum saying that she supported the single market etc but would be interested in scrapping anything that safeguarded human rights etc. When it was put to her that wasn't on the table she came down on the remain side.

Ah, that makes more sense.

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/would-this-be-a-bad-time-to-say-your-new-plans-bollocks-asks-eu-20180710175162

I think the plan put forward by the government is a basis for negotiation and adaptation. The key points about it are that it has unified Cabinet approval, and it's softer than the Hard Brexiteers would like.

There's plenty in it which can be argued with, particularly the reliance on magic technology to operate the customs system. That said, let's look at things from the end state.

3. There can't be an agreement with the EU without a negotiation.
2. There can't be a negotiation without the UK presenting a confirmed set of proposals.
1. There can't be a set of proposals without cabinet agreement.

We now have step 1 completed, hopefully, after a wait of many months. We have about three months to get through steps 2 and 3.

I've said this before, and working on the basis that a stopped clock is right twice a day

I'm predicting a winter of discontent.

The Tory Shires are on the verge of mutiny, informed observers on twitter are convinced the grassroots are deserting in droves and heading back to UKIP.

There are murmurings of discontent from the DUP.

Farage is threatening to pop up again in 2019, which coincidentally, is when he stops being an MEP.

We have crunch time in October. The EU will probably demand more. These conflicting forces are likely to tear the Tories apart in the Autumn.

We know it was UKIP voters who helped May to 'victory' last year. When they go, and they will go this time, the Tories can't win and they know it...


Batten down the hatches and prepare for a long winter...

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I've said this before, and working on the basis that a stopped clock is right twice a day

I'm predicting a winter of discontent.

They''ll be out in the streets with shaking their walking canes at the sky I'm sure.

The Tory Shires are on the verge of mutiny, informed observers on twitter are convinced the grassroots are deserting in droves and heading back to UKIP.

There are murmurings of discontent from the DUP.

Well we can hope that this is the end of the Tory party. If 15% abscond to the UKIP then that will stop them winning the next election. Labour have by far less to lose because 3/4's of their voters support staying in the EU.

We may get two new parties "New Conservatives" and "Old Conservatives" being both literally and metaphorically correct.

We have crunch time in October. The EU will probably demand more. These conflicting forces are likely to tear the Tories apart in the Autumn.

There are still an awful lot of issues that need reconciling. May really has moved only on one area which is accepting control of the ECJ. That helps. However she still wants an open customs arrangement in the long term without freedom of movement. That isn't going to fly. She wants to align on certain goods but that UK parliament can push back on any legislation that it doesn't want. That either makes the UK too powerful as it has an arbitrary decision to halt such approval or it brings the existing arrangements to a collapse. The EU won't accept this. The EU have already said that the services arrangements, like banking, require alignment of the market but May doesn't want that (or wants power of overall veto). That isn't going to happen. The EU now know which side May is swinging towards and with a bit more prodding will likely end up in the full customs union. At that point you may as well not leave).

It's more and more likely a new referendum will be called. Labour have already stated they won't vote for the proposals, hence there is almost certainly enough rebels (Wrexiters) to stop it as they will see it as a way of bringing May down. Hence if she wants to survive she can't take it to a vote or she has to silence the Wrexit rebels.




Batten down the hatches and prepare for a long winter...

I can't make up my mind if May's strategy is:

1. Play for time and hope for something to turn up.
2. Play for time until it runs out and a very soft Brexit has to be agreed to prevent chaos.
3. Play for time until it runs out and a Hard Brexit is forced on everyone.

I could stomach joining EFTA/EEA as it allowed just enough wiggle room to call ourselves independent. If we don’t get that, or an equivalent, then there’s no point doing anything else. I don’t believe in cutting our noses off to spite our faces by crashing out of the EU without a plan. It would only feed into the remainer narrative and encourage us to rejoin on terrible turns.

Christ, to have had even one competent politician on our side.

I would wonder if this was Remainer May’s plan all along but I don’t think she has that kind of machiavellian streak. Or maybe she’s so Machiavellian the blusterling idiot we see before us is an elaborate ruse.

I think when everything’s said and done, brexit is going to be cancelled. So You Win Again. I think I will pack up and join my friends in Australia. Funny how it’s a smaller country than us (population and gdp wise at least) but it does ok on its own.

I'm convinced it's #1 - stall until some solution presents itself.

We all win if Brexit is cancelled. Apart from the poor buggers who've jobs have already been axed.


In other news, that EU conference about Balkans joining that we insisted was held in London happened yesterday, including a no-show from the first speaker, UK Foreign Secretary, because the last one had just resigned. Deliberate or did he just forget about it?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-resigns-western-balkan-summit-no-show-london-brexit-theresa-may-david-davis-a8438946.html

Can we become more of a laughing stock?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I can't make up my mind if May's strategy is:

1. Play for time and hope for something to turn up.
2. Play for time until it runs out and a very soft Brexit has to be agreed to prevent chaos.
3. Play for time until it runs out and a Hard Brexit is forced on everyone.

There is no more time. It's up. May has to gak or get off the pot, as the old saying goes.

One side of the Tory party will have to be jettisoned. May however, has succeeded in alienating both sides, which takes a special kind of incompetence.

We're looking at the smashed toes of a lame duck government.


I like General Elections. I like going out to vote, and I love sitting up all night and watching the BBC's coverage, so if there's another one, I don't mind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Herzlos wrote:
I'm convinced it's #1 - stall until some solution presents itself.


In other news, that EU conference about Balkans joining that we insisted was held in London happened yesterday, including a no-show from the first speaker, UK Foreign Secretary, because the last one had just resigned. Deliberate or did he just forget about it?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-resigns-western-balkan-summit-no-show-london-brexit-theresa-may-david-davis-a8438946.html

Can we become more of a laughing stock?

Thankfully, we have Trump as a supporting gig, so I think we might be all right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I could stomach joining EFTA/EEA as it allowed just enough wiggle room to call ourselves independent. If we don’t get that, or an equivalent, then there’s no point doing anything else. I don’t believe in cutting our noses off to spite our faces by crashing out of the EU without a plan. It would only feed into the remainer narrative and encourage us to rejoin on terrible turns.

Christ, to have had even one competent politician on our side.

I would wonder if this was Remainer May’s plan all along but I don’t think she has that kind of machiavellian streak. Or maybe she’s so Machiavellian the blusterling idiot we see before us is an elaborate ruse.

I think when everything’s said and done, brexit is going to be cancelled. So You Win Again.

As you know I'm Brexit through and through, but I now reluctantly support EFTA/EEA because:

1. Our government is a shambles and we need to salvage something before Remain seize the day and take us back into the EU

2. We have forgotten how to govern or negotiate, because the EU has done that for us for 40 years.

A few years of learning the old skills again will allow us to gradually phase out of the EU.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Whirlwind wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I've said this before, and working on the basis that a stopped clock is right twice a day

I'm predicting a winter of discontent.

They''ll be out in the streets with shaking their walking canes at the sky I'm sure.

The Tory Shires are on the verge of mutiny, informed observers on twitter are convinced the grassroots are deserting in droves and heading back to UKIP.

There are murmurings of discontent from the DUP.

Well we can hope that this is the end of the Tory party. If 15% abscond to the UKIP then that will stop them winning the next election. Labour have by far less to lose because 3/4's of their voters support staying in the EU.

We may get two new parties "New Conservatives" and "Old Conservatives" being both literally and metaphorically correct.

We have crunch time in October. The EU will probably demand more. These conflicting forces are likely to tear the Tories apart in the Autumn.

There are still an awful lot of issues that need reconciling. May really has moved only on one area which is accepting control of the ECJ. That helps. However she still wants an open customs arrangement in the long term without freedom of movement. That isn't going to fly. She wants to align on certain goods but that UK parliament can push back on any legislation that it doesn't want. That either makes the UK too powerful as it has an arbitrary decision to halt such approval or it brings the existing arrangements to a collapse. The EU won't accept this. The EU have already said that the services arrangements, like banking, require alignment of the market but May doesn't want that (or wants power of overall veto). That isn't going to happen. The EU now know which side May is swinging towards and with a bit more prodding will likely end up in the full customs union. At that point you may as well not leave).

It's more and more likely a new referendum will be called. Labour have already stated they won't vote for the proposals, hence there is almost certainly enough rebels (Wrexiters) to stop it as they will see it as a way of bringing May down. Hence if she wants to survive she can't take it to a vote or she has to silence the Wrexit rebels.




Batten down the hatches and prepare for a long winter...

And now?

Tory Vice Chairs have quit...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44785797

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I could stomach joining EFTA/EEA as it allowed just enough wiggle room to call ourselves independent. If we don’t get that, or an equivalent, then there’s no point doing anything else. I don’t believe in cutting our noses off to spite our faces by crashing out of the EU without a plan. It would only feed into the remainer narrative and encourage us to rejoin on terrible turns.

Christ, to have had even one competent politician on our side.

I would wonder if this was Remainer May’s plan all along but I don’t think she has that kind of machiavellian streak. Or maybe she’s so Machiavellian the blusterling idiot we see before us is an elaborate ruse.

I think when everything’s said and done, brexit is going to be cancelled. So You Win Again. I think I will pack up and join my friends in Australia. Funny how it’s a smaller country than us (population and gdp wise at least) but it does ok on its own.

The Australian economy is much more based on mining and tourism. It's a different kind of economy to the UK.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And now?

Tory Vice Chairs have quit...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44785797

I don't think they amount to anything (unfortunately as they are for Women and Youth, but there you go.)

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

I like General Elections. I like going out to vote, and I love sitting up all night and watching the BBC's coverage, so if there's another one, I don't mind.

I thought you were never voting again?





Automatically Appended Next Post:

As you know I'm Brexit through and through, but I now reluctantly support EFTA/EEA because:

1. Our government is a shambles and we need to salvage something before Remain seize the day and take us back into the EU

Why the need to salvage something just for a victory? This is people lives at stake, not a game. If you have a reason to go to EEA beyond feeling like you've won, I'd love to hear them.

2. We have forgotten how to govern or negotiate, because the EU has done that for us for 40 years.

And we're been better for it. Bear in mind that we've been governing ourselves the whole time anyway - most EU directives are up to the nation state to decide on implementation. We're not a puppet nation.

A few years of learning the old skills again will allow us to gradually phase out of the EU.

Which is a good plan, if the end game of leaving the EU makes sense. I think this is more or less what Farage suggested - go straight to EEA and then allow the economy to adjust whilst we negotiate a better deal.

Personally I still think it's stupid. EEA is better than leaving, but staying is better than EEA. We may as well stay in until we've got some credible (a) reason and (b) plan for leaving.

Not that I'm getting too worked up about it, as it sits we're looking like we'll either stay or just re-join in a few years anyway.

Leaving then rejoining would be terrible. Euro, Schengen, the eurocrat smugness...god no.

Backing down and staying in would be terrible for number 3 too.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Funny how it’s a smaller country than us (population and gdp wise at least) but it does ok on its own.

Australia is a member of the ASEAN Plus mechanism, United Nations, G20, Commonwealth of Nations, ANZUS, Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), World Trade Organization, Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation, and the Pacific Islands Forum

..Ben Bradley quits ?!>!

lest we forget



Still in years to come, we can all remember that when a murder investigation was launched into a chemical attack on a British mother, the chief suspect being the Russian state, the Foreign Secretary skipped the emergency meeting because he was too busy doing a photo shoot for his own resignation.



whilst his colleagues described him as brave and principled.

Still least he'll have time to campaign against that third runway now then right ?

Jacob Rees Mogg tells me he would certainly not accept the post of Foreign Secretary on the basis of having to defend the Chequers deal.

Similarly I will not be captaining England's football team tomorrow as I really do not like Southgate's waistcoats.

exchange of the day :

https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1016694963525087233

No legacy is so rich as honesty.

Because avoiding Eurocrat smugness is a key aim of Brexit, beyond things like jobs, the economy, workers rights, environmental protections...