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 Riquende wrote:
So the white paper is out, and predictably very few MPs seem to like it. Not Brexity enough for the ERG, as everybody knew would be the case. From what I'm reading, the Tories are just batting all Labour concerns back with "you voted for all of this too".

But neither is it good for Remain. Hell, a lot of the proposals are close to what we already have with EU membership, you may as well stay in.


As I've said before, it takes a special talent to unite Remain and Leave supporters against your latest proposal.


And at any rate, the EU will De Gaulle it.

Of course we're going to get a deal so close to being in the EU that we may as well stay in. It's the only way we're going to keep the lights on (literally).

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Better to have no Brexit than this wretched deal cooked up by May.

Welcome to the dark side

Ditch Brexit until someone has a good plan for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They are trying to move the Trump balloon up to Turnbury:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-44806900

So I guess Trump will be going to his other golf course.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Riquende wrote:
So the white paper is out, and predictably very few MPs seem to like it. Not Brexity enough for the ERG, as everybody knew would be the case. From what I'm reading, the Tories are just batting all Labour concerns back with "you voted for all of this too".

But neither is it good for Remain.

True, but only the most extreme remainers aren't worried about being labelled traitors etc so aren't immediately going on the attack. JRM and his crew can quite happily run their mouths with the support of the people's willy. No, wait....

Labour have voted for these things. It was a huge error to do so. They gave up their ability to be an effective opposition when they voted along with the Tories. Tainted now, and I think they will suffer backlash because of it, particularly because of the levels of Right Wing bias in the British Media.

 Da Boss wrote:
Labour have voted for these things. It was a huge error to do so. They gave up their ability to be an effective opposition when they voted along with the Tories. Tainted now, and I think they will suffer backlash because of it, particularly because of the levels of Right Wing bias in the British Media.

I keep seeing comments like this and I have to disagree, Labour have done the only thing they could do.

Let's try a little critical thinking first let's cast our minds back over the last 2 years of mostly blue on blue attacks.

Judges called traitors, Tory Rebels called traitors and issued death threats, The gutter press in full third Reich Willy of the peeple mode, various spats in the Conkipper party. All the other bollocks I cannot be bothered to list.

So keeping in mind that most of the last 2 years has been taken over by the Tory civil war what would be the one thing that would get them to rally together?

Then there's the Hate Mail,Scum and other far right rags, given the abuse they hurled at there own can you imagine what would have been unleashed on Labour if they spoke out?

The there is the Math basicly Labour don't have the numbers to actually make a difference in parliament without Tory "Rebels" who keep forgetting to Rebel for the most part. Take Sourby she talks the talk and then falls into party line every single time.

I would imagine the gutter press have had stories ready to go for the last 2 years slagging of Labour and Corbyn as traitors of people for trying to block the Willy of the people.
I almost could believe that some of the so called Tory Rebels would have fallen into party line immediately if Labour shifted position almost like a trap.
Labour are taking the only strategy that stops the Tories pinning brexshit on them, they have to wait until brexshit starts to collapse under Tory incompetence and brexshiter bs. Like say stories about rationing, insane ways of keeping the lights on or that brexshit means bollocks. Then they have to come out and say look the brexshit promises were all bollocks the Tories are clueless we need to do this.

I just think that is an irresponsibly dangerous game to play. It is getting more and more likely that the UK will crash out with no deal, which would be catastrophic for the UK.

There could have been very strong arguments against triggering Article 50 before a White Paper position was agreed for example that would have left the UK in a much stronger negotiating position.

What labour is doing smacks of party before country, in the same wazy as the tories. The UK is being very poorly served by all it's institutions at present.

 Da Boss wrote:
I just think that is an irresponsibly dangerous game to play. It is getting more and more likely that the UK will crash out with no deal, which would be catastrophic for the UK.

There could have been very strong arguments against triggering Article 50 before a White Paper position was agreed for example that would have left the UK in a much stronger negotiating position.

What labour is doing smacks of party before country, in the same wazy as the tories. The UK is being very poorly served by all it's institutions at present.

We should have had this sort of White paper before we even had the referendum. Now you have an option that no one wants, including May but who is trying to keep her own party and career in power at the expense of everything else.

Yes Labour doing the same, because they are quite happy to watch the Tories wreck everything so they can then be blamed for all calamities over the next 20 years that not even papers like the Daily Fail and Scum can't hide. And this is the problem, certain media barons have by far too much power to influence the older generation (noting that the younger generation probably have an issue with identifying fake news on social media). They themselves need to be controlled to ensure that news is factual, investigatory journalism rather than made up inferred tripe. At that point parties may be able to have a sensible conversation rather than be worried by what a few people who don't want their tax affairs investigated in detail.

Still at least we get to see May get that deep and penetrating relationship as she bends over as Trump screws her and country.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
In the run up, I had this guy in work asking everyone what they were doing for the twelfth. He’s in a band. When he got to me I said nothing. He gets incredulous and asks why. I say it means nothing to me. Then he gets indignant, because it’s traditional cultural heritage and pride etc.

And I say not for Catholics.

That shut him up, for a while. He then started going on about how ‘inclusive’ it all is now, whilst getting a bit stroppy and asking ‘have I got a problem with it’. I said to him that we can draw a line in the sand and stop going on about it or I can get HR involved. Hopefully he takes the hint.

This is the same spanker who believes that the 1912 Ulster Gun Running, one of the most important events in unionism, never happened. It’s a lie. Because it utterly destroys the narrative that the unionists were only ever the victims of republican violence. Hard to argue that when they were the ones who bought guns into it in the modern era. At least now I can stop pretending to like the fat vaping feth.

Perhaps you could have tried to be nice to him? It’s obviously an important day for the guy.

Very odd he believes the gunrunning in 1912 didn’t take place. It’s one of loyalists most treasured anniversaries. If he is in a band he would have been invited to one of the many parades a few years back celebrating its 100th anniversary. It was widely celebrated with re-enactments and parades taking place, not sure how he could have missed it. Odd.......

The violence over the bonfire removal is shameful but it has been very isolated 99% of them passed off peacefully. The anger came from the police response over the removal when they compared it against the IRA violence again in Londonderry over the last fortnight. A Protestant housing estate has been attacked nightly and shots have been fired in an attempt to complete a republican campaign of ethnic cleansing in the area. The police response was minimal yet a bonfire attracted 100s of officers and a full scale operation. Young people in east Belfast felt their community was receiving fairly heavy handed policing over a bonfire when ethnic cleansing and gun attacks were being largely ignored.

 Knockagh wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
In the run up, I had this guy in work asking everyone what they were doing for the twelfth. He’s in a band. When he got to me I said nothing. He gets incredulous and asks why. I say it means nothing to me. Then he gets indignant, because it’s traditional cultural heritage and pride etc.

And I say not for Catholics.

That shut him up, for a while. He then started going on about how ‘inclusive’ it all is now, whilst getting a bit stroppy and asking ‘have I got a problem with it’. I said to him that we can draw a line in the sand and stop going on about it or I can get HR involved. Hopefully he takes the hint.

This is the same spanker who believes that the 1912 Ulster Gun Running, one of the most important events in unionism, never happened. It’s a lie. Because it utterly destroys the narrative that the unionists were only ever the victims of republican violence. Hard to argue that when they were the ones who bought guns into it in the modern era. At least now I can stop pretending to like the fat vaping feth.

Perhaps you could have tried to be nice to him? It’s obviously an important day for the guy.

Very odd he believes the gunrunning in 1912 didn’t take place. It’s one of loyalists most treasured anniversaries. If he is in a band he would have been invited to one of the many parades a few years back celebrating its 100th anniversary. It was widely celebrated with re-enactments and parades taking place, not sure how he could have missed it. Odd.......

The violence over the bonfire removal is shameful but it has been very isolated 99% of them passed off peacefully. The anger came from the police response over the removal when they compared it against the IRA violence again in Londonderry over the last fortnight. A Protestant housing estate has been attacked nightly and shots have been fired in an attempt to complete a republican campaign of ethnic cleansing in the area. The police response was minimal yet a bonfire attracted 100s of officers and a full scale operation. Young people in east Belfast felt their community was receiving fairly heavy handed policing over a bonfire when ethnic cleansing and gun attacks were being largely ignored.

I'd like to know how he could've been more nice to him.
Considering his circumstances, any more nice would've been saint level.

@ Knockagh

He’s a very, very, very unintelligent person. Worse, he’s a know it all. A know nothing know it all. He’s also just...unlikeable. A crushing bore, and a homophobic rascist who’s also an egomaniac with a very bad sense of entitlement.

Now, maybe I could have been nicer about it. Truth is, I was trying to politely tip toe around it. I initially played it as no big deal. “Not much, just gonna stay in with the PlayStation and enjoy the start of the four day weekend”. And that wasn’t good enough. He just had to keep pushing, and pushing, and pushing. Are you not in a band? Do you not go to the bonfires? Why not, and so on. I probably could have handled it better but, I do have that memory. Oh, and I just plain don’t like him to begin with so my already short patience is non existent.

And I’ve no idea where he’s getting this nonsense about the gun running. It’s not even his worst conspiracy theory.

Definitely sounds an odd chap.....

I was looking back there and there were 12000 walkers at the gunrunning anniversary event in 2014. Perhaps he is lying he is even in a band.

Here’s a video of it. I’m in there somewhere LOL

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fjyhTe7GCU4

Well, we’re staying in the Human Rights Convention at the moment.

Hard right Tories apparently disgusted.

 Knockagh wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
In the run up, I had this guy in work asking everyone what they were doing for the twelfth. He’s in a band. When he got to me I said nothing. He gets incredulous and asks why. I say it means nothing to me. Then he gets indignant, because it’s traditional cultural heritage and pride etc.

And I say not for Catholics.

That shut him up, for a while. He then started going on about how ‘inclusive’ it all is now, whilst getting a bit stroppy and asking ‘have I got a problem with it’. I said to him that we can draw a line in the sand and stop going on about it or I can get HR involved. Hopefully he takes the hint.

This is the same spanker who believes that the 1912 Ulster Gun Running, one of the most important events in unionism, never happened. It’s a lie. Because it utterly destroys the narrative that the unionists were only ever the victims of republican violence. Hard to argue that when they were the ones who bought guns into it in the modern era. At least now I can stop pretending to like the fat vaping feth.

Perhaps you could have tried to be nice to him? It’s obviously an important day for the guy.

Very odd he believes the gunrunning in 1912 didn’t take place. It’s one of loyalists most treasured anniversaries. If he is in a band he would have been invited to one of the many parades a few years back celebrating its 100th anniversary. It was widely celebrated with re-enactments and parades taking place, not sure how he could have missed it. Odd.......

The violence over the bonfire removal is shameful but it has been very isolated 99% of them passed off peacefully. The anger came from the police response over the removal when they compared it against the IRA violence again in Londonderry over the last fortnight. A Protestant housing estate has been attacked nightly and shots have been fired in an attempt to complete a republican campaign of ethnic cleansing in the area. The police response was minimal yet a bonfire attracted 100s of officers and a full scale operation. Young people in east Belfast felt their community was receiving fairly heavy handed policing over a bonfire when ethnic cleansing and gun attacks were being largely ignored.

Many Bonfires consists of burning flags and being adorned with offensive signs so I wouldn't say most are peaceful. As I said earlier replace the flags with Israeli ones and the signs to saying to kill all Jews and there would be outrage and every bonfire would be taken down, this was literally 2 taken down because of safety issues.

There have been large numbers of police in the Bogside since the trouble started despite what some unionists are saying people have been up in court today over the attacks. The gun fire was at the police and not at the fountain, still wrong but if you're gonna peddle the 'ethnic cleansing' line at least get the facts straight.

Perhaps Belfast realised they needed more police considering even with all those extra police violence there was still multiple incidents and the DUP have essentially endorsed the attacks on the short strand by criticising attacks on the emergency services but not innocent civilians!

I’m not condoning the trouble in Belfast it’s stupid and accomplished nothing. A fight over jam tarts.

How many bonfires have you been to that your making this assumption on? Or are you basing that just on the ones that hit the papers? We have all seen hideous things on republican bonfires as well. No difference. I have been to many bonfires through the years and 99% have been good community events. There are exceptions and nobody want them but a small stupid minority we could all do without. We all know bonfire sizes have got too big and we need a community plan to deal with this but it’s impossible for loyalists to influence the kids when they feel republicans are attacking the bonfires, that makes them want to build them bigger.

Surely you arnt making some attempt to support the ethnic cleansing of Protestants in Londonderry’s cityside? The only people to deny it have been IRA front groups. Even the sdlp recognise it. The Catholic Church have stated it. No one denies it. It would be like denying it happened if border communities. Be real

The ones I've had to see in person (there's 3 close enough to me) have all had the tri colour being burnt, the one in sandy row had a pretty large crowd at it, the parade today in Derry had sectarian singing and stalls selling UDA paraphernalia, I'm not sure exactly how many bonfires there are up here for the 11th but it's defiantly more than 1% that burn flags .The OO as a whole is a sectarian organisation going by it's own rules.

There is a difference though, Republican bonfires don't have anywhere near the same support as Unionist ones seeing as they burn SF posters on them. How are republicans attacking the bonfires? If it's by disagreeing with them that's not just republicans but anyone not wrapped up in supporting a sectarian event. It's not just kids and you know it, unless the kids of East Belfast are to whip up viable bombs at a moments notice?

No I'm not trying to support any form of ethnic cleansing, not actually sure how you got that? There's been a report into why the protestant population in Derry has fallen and while yes some didn't feel safe during the troubles there were other reason such as housing many moved to the waterside of the city even at the praise of the DUP. It was your use of the term republican ethnic cleansing if republicans are all for clearing out the fountain why was that they organised a march against the attacks why is it the republicans spoke out against the attack, even some of the dissidents spoke out against it and they're about as hard line as you can get. Speaking of ethnic cleansing, why haven't the DUP the leaders of unionism spoken against the attacks on the short strand?

Just watching Mock the Week and my favourite two comments so far;

"A Brexit so soft we'll have to thumb it in"

"From this starting point, by the end of the negotiations we'll be speaking French"

Would that be the report from the pat Finucane centre? The centre that employs IRA child killer Paul O’Connor? The same centre named after a man who IRA man turned informer Sean O'Callaghan has stated was an active IRA man? Whose 3 brothers were all confirmed IRA members? An uncle who sat on the IRA army council? And whose son now stands as a Sinn Fein candidate? A report from these impartial guys? Your having a laugh. Next you will be telling me you saw the moon turn blue. I know it’s the 12th and were all off on holiday but let’s be serious!!!!

As far as burning a tricolour goes, it’s a fairly silly thing to get annoyed about really isn’t it. Yes it shod stop but it’s hardly the end of the world. If it’s a respect the by your after there is no respect from republicans when they won’t even say NORTHERN IRELAND. It can’t pass their lips ever. We all need to change some values and we all need to learn to respect better.

Anyway there was more trouble at build a bear today than at the 12th celebrations. My wee girls raging the queues were massive.

Build-A-Bear.

What the hell were parents expecting? Massive bargains on a popular and normally pricey good = massive queues?

The report was funded by the Dublin department of Foreign Affairs and written by two independent academics, still doesn't deal with the fact that the DUP was actively encouraging people to leave for different areas of the city perhaps they took part in this ethnic cleansing too.

It may seem silly to some but it represents a lot, for years it was illegal to even by in possession of the flag si it reminds people of those years where Catholics were second class citizens and openly discriminated against. I'd also say not using Northern Ireland and burning another countries flags are slightly different, one is me not using a a word compared to actively doing something. I agree both sides need to be more respectful and learn more about each other but it's hard to see a way forward when hundreds of thousands gather to celebrate sectarianism.

Yeah saw the news about the Build a Bear looked crazy, member of staff assaulted apparently.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Build-A-Bear.

What the hell were parents expecting? Massive bargains on a popular and normally pricey good = massive queues?

I know! My wife and I agreed not to tell our kids because we didn’t want to go near it but their friends told them. We took one look at the queue from a hundred yards away and walked off. Some offers are not worth it. I think a parent hit a member of staff! Apparently they do the same offer if you take them on their birthday month so I don’t know what the rush was about.


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 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:
The report was funded by the Dublin department of Foreign Affairs and written by two independent academics, still doesn't deal with the fact that the DUP was actively encouraging people to leave for different areas of the city perhaps they took part in this ethnic cleansing too.

It may seem silly to some but it represents a lot, for years it was illegal to even by in possession of the flag si it reminds people of those years where Catholics were second class citizens and openly discriminated against. I'd also say not using Northern Ireland and burning another countries flags are slightly different, one is me not using a a word compared to actively doing something. I agree both sides need to be more respectful and learn more about each other but it's hard to see a way forward when hundreds of thousands gather to celebrate sectarianism.

Yeah saw the news about the Build a Bear looked crazy, member of staff assaulted apparently.

The report came from the discredited Pat Finucane centre that’s inextricably linked with the republican movement.

If you want to talk about second class citizens take a look at Protestants south of the border. It’s odd isn’t it that supposed second class citizens in NI have flourished educationally, financially and numerically but Protestants in the Republic have vanished. After partition the Irish Distress Committee had by the spring of 1922 to deal with some 20,000 refugees who arrived in London. Some 60,000 Protestants, not connected to the administration, left in the period 1911-1926. Practically the whole of the Protestant working class fled Dublin in the 1920s.
Protestants made up around 10% of the population in the south in 1911 but had dropped to only 3.2% in 2011 – despite a major influx of foreign national Protestants in recent years. I’m sorry but that’s a case of second class citizenship. When republicans claim they were denied a vote in NI they ignore the fact that at the time working class Protestants were also denied a vote. Yes the system wasn’t fair and Roman Catholics didn’t have the lions share but they certainly don’t have a monopoly on discrimination like they love to portray. They were the active discriminaters in the Irish Free State and much of the discrimination they did face in Northern Ireland was shared with the loyalist working class.

 Knockagh wrote:

The report came from the discredited Pat Finucane centre that’s inextricably linked with the republican movement.

If you want to talk about second class citizens take a look at Protestants south of the border. It’s odd isn’t it that supposed second class citizens in NI have flourished educationally, financially and numerically but Protestants in the Republic have vanished. After partition the Irish Distress Committee had by the spring of 1922 to deal with some 20,000 refugees who arrived in London. Some 60,000 Protestants, not connected to the administration, left in the period 1911-1926. Practically the whole of the Protestant working class fled Dublin in the 1920s.
Protestants made up around 10% of the population in the south in 1911 but had dropped to only 3.2% in 2011 – despite a major influx of foreign national Protestants in recent years. I’m sorry but that’s a case of second class citizenship. When republicans claim they were denied a vote in NI they ignore the fact that at the time working class Protestants were also denied a vote. Yes the system wasn’t fair and Roman Catholics didn’t have the lions share but they certainly don’t have a monopoly on discrimination like they love to portray. They were the active discriminaters in the Irish Free State and much of the discrimination they did face in Northern Ireland was shared with the loyalist working class.

While my beef with Britannia may go back to when it was still a Roman Province, this is some OLD news. Ok, let me see if I'm following your logic: The Protestant population fell due to them leaving, fearing reprisals for, admittedly, 500 years of bs, and, becoming a small minority, Democracy is not kind to them, and that's comparable to an actually active effort to suppress people?


In other news, Trump has apparently blown up the current Brexit plan.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44815558

Mr Trump also said that former foreign secretary Boris Johnson would make a "great prime minister", adding "I think he's got what it takes".

Amongst oranges, there's always a common ground.

But hey, who knows, maybe that's UK's next PM in the end. The wreckage could keep on that way.

Anyone who invokes the words of O'Callaghan has no business smearing the name of Pat Finucane. If Pat Finucane was a member of the IRA why has NO EVIDENCE been found of this? It's not exactly hard to find. Even the RUC etc have admitted he wasn't a member.
O'Callaghan bolted extra tales onto his story, such as the plot to kill the royals. His handlers said he wasn't a credible source. I've read his tripe of a book and it says Tomás Mac Curtain, shot in the dead of night by British assassins was "murdered." Anyone with that sort of interpretation of history where the British "Murder" and the IRA Murder isn't someone to be trusted.

I have seen pictures of loads of landrovers supported by a heli in the Bogside. I note SF came out to protest the violence: DUP was absent in East Belfast. Only a tiny minority is out there chucking bombs. Even Saoradh, noted anti-peace loons was out opposing the violence.

Meanwhile after a blast bomb was thrown at children in Belfast nothing was done to catch the bomber. He ran into cluan streets sealed by a barricade. They didn't go kicking in doors now did they? Buses were burned by gunmen...the problem is loyalists love the law so long as they write it.

Even more discredited nonsense about "ethnic cleansing." Protestants realised they were in a state where 500 years of BS put them in a bad position. They left of their own volition.
Working class protestants didn't have the vote? Any homeowner had the vote, which is why Gerrymandering was introduced and the unionist housing executives always handed housing to Protestants.

I see the ‘oppressed second class citizens’ have been out bombing and rioting last night again. Large crowds out rioting for the sixth night in a row. I’m sure all these republicans you say are against this trouble will be straight down to the police station to turn in the culprits?
Loyalists must be congratulated for their discipline and restraint when after these sustainined attacks on their isolated communities they have yet to respond.
Good to see the police at last starting to respond to these terrorists. Hopefully the community they come from will turn them in and police will have the balls to fire baton rounds at them. Just saw a video of a republican throwing a petrol bomb at an innocent van driver last night clearly attempted murder thankfully it bounced off the window. Shocking scenes.

https://mobile.twitter.com/petem2018/status/1017535638227308549/video/1

Well, it looks like Donald Trump has thrown May under a bus.

He more or less said that her Brexit plan is horsegak, and thinks Bojo could be a great PM.



It's times like these that I have a tiny slither of sympathy for May. This week has been a disaster for her.

Since the US pussy-grabber in chief is in town, here's a poll from the Guardian / ICM about UK opinion of him.



The details may serve to reinforce a few ideas about Leave voters too, (my emphasis):

ICM wrote:It’s revealing to break down these results by EU referendum vote. Doing so shows that leavers are much more positive about Trump than remainers – and moreover, that it appears to be EU referendum vote rather than which party voted for at the previous General Election that is more closely related to views on Trump.

As an example, for both Labour and Conservative voters at 2017, a similarly low proportion agree that Trump is a better leader than May (25% and 27% of those expressing a view respectively). Yet there’s a much bigger gap between leavers and remainers on the same measure (36% vs. 15%), and this gap exists within both parties’ voter bases – with more than double the proportion of both Tory leavers (34%) and Labour leavers (40%) thinking May is better than Trump compared to Tory remainers (13%) and Labour remainers (17%) .

And when directly linking Trump and Brexit, a majority (51%) of leavers expressing a view think Trump would make a success of Brexit as British PM, compared to only 17% of remainers.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Well, it looks like Donald Trump has thrown May under a bus.

He more or less said that her Brexit plan is horsegak, and thinks Bojo could be a great PM.



It's times like these that I have a tiny slither of sympathy for May. This week has been a disaster for her.

Moronic entitled populist thinks other moronic entitled populist could be good leader, shock horror.

The timing is awful for May though. But I honestly don't think she was expecting this current proposal to be approved by anyone, and is just trying to find some way to get another referendum or for people to decide it's less of a farce to stay in.

Alas, there's a lot of Brexiteers worship Trump.

It's because Trump and Brexit both are about identity politics.

Surely there is very little support for BJ? Even amoung hardcore Brexit supporters they must see him as a bumbling fool. I don’t get him at all or the attraction to him. Is it just the UK is so devoid of any leadership from any party at the minute even a fool can rise to the top? Who does he appeal to? Trump has carefully crafted an appeal to the white working classes, May has a certain appeal to our older richer folk who maintain British traditional values who arnt so radical in either direction. Who on earth does Boris appeal to? Am I missing a class of clowns?

Herzlos wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Well, it looks like Donald Trump has thrown May under a bus.

He more or less said that her Brexit plan is horsegak, and thinks Bojo could be a great PM.



It's times like these that I have a tiny slither of sympathy for May. This week has been a disaster for her.

Moronic entitled populist thinks other moronic entitled populist could be good leader, shock horror.

The timing is awful for May though. But I honestly don't think she was expecting this current proposal to be approved by anyone, and is just trying to find some way to get another referendum or for people to decide it's less of a farce to stay in.

Alas, there's a lot of Brexiteers worship Trump.

Personally, I'm glad May's Brexit plans have been shot down in flames. The EU hates them. Remain hates them. Brexiteers hate them. The US president hates them.

As I keep saying, that takes something 'special' to pull that off.


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 Knockagh wrote:
Surely there is very little support for BJ? Even amoung hardcore Brexit supporters they must see him as a bumbling fool. I don’t get him at all or the attraction to him. Is it just the UK is so devoid of any leadership from any party at the minute even a fool can rise to the top? Who does he appeal to? Trump has carefully crafted an appeal to the white working classes, May has a certain appeal to our older richer folk who maintain British traditional values who arnt so radical in either direction. Who on earth does Boris appeal to? Am I missing a class of clowns?

Bojo is a bumbling buffoon and is loathed for god reasons. I doubt anybody would think of him as a serious cntender, that ship sailed 2 years ago.

But I will say this to everybody: to the right people, Bojo is an assest as a stalking horse candidate to unseat May...



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 Kilkrazy wrote:
It's because Trump and Brexit both are about identity politics.

Brexit is a lot more nuanced than that. Well, at least to me anyway.