Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Has it crossed anyone's mind (collectively speaking), that perhaps this may be a further indication the Brexit issue should be revisited?
The UK government took a razor thin majority, basically within the margin of error, on a nonbinding referendum as a mandate from the heavens to push through the largest political, economic and foreign relations change in living memory for no real clear reason and with plainly inadequate information and no clear objectives.
Now that the scope of what that will entail is becoming increasingly clear, and that there's still no gameplan or clear expectations or...real objectives, and what will plainly be the inferior position at the negotiating table, perhaps being dead set on pushing that through after a hung parliament isn't a recipe for success?
Would there be value in stepping back, reassessing the situation with newer information and within the context of the current political reality, and asking "is this really still a good idea?"
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Unfortunately we have already triggered article 50.
There is no way back, we have already jumped. It's way to late to have made sure we actually had a parachute on and not just a backpack like so many daffy duck cartoons.
DS:90-S+G+++M++B-IPw40k03+D+A++/fWD-R++T(T)DM+ Warmachine MKIII record 39W/0D/6L
welshhoppo wrote: Unfortunately we have already triggered article 50.
There is no way back, we have already jumped. It's way to late to have made sure we actually had a parachute on and not just a backpack like so many daffy duck cartoons.
That's not true at all. Article 50 can be revoked and everything can be rolled back.
I'm not sure why people keep saying this. Article 50 is literally the beginning of discussions as to how we leave. We haven't left yet.
I'm sure Europe would be immensely annoyed with us, but we could just turn around tomorrow, wave our hands in the air and say "Sorry chaps! We'd like to change our minds!".
People are now asking if an alliance with the DUP is a massive, political mistake. It could mean that the UK government is no longer seen as a neutral party in the talks to restore the Northern Irish assembly.
Very impressed if it's true that the Prime Minister has decided to soldier on. In these circumstances, that takes real courage.
uh huh.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Vaktathi wrote: Has it crossed anyone's mind (collectively speaking), that perhaps this may be a further indication the Brexit issue should be revisited?
The UK government took a razor thin majority, basically within the margin of error, on a nonbinding referendum as a mandate from the heavens to push through the largest political, economic and foreign relations change in living memory for no real clear reason and with plainly inadequate information and no clear objectives.
Now that the scope of what that will entail is becoming increasingly clear, and that there's still no gameplan or clear expectations or...real objectives, and what will plainly be the inferior position at the negotiating table, perhaps being dead set on pushing that through after a hung parliament isn't a recipe for success?
Would there be value in stepping back, reassessing the situation with newer information and within the context of the current political reality, and asking "is this really still a good idea?"
Or, as a slightly harsher formulation of the same question, is leaving the EU worth tearing the entire country down?
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
welshhoppo wrote: Unfortunately we have already triggered article 50.
There is no way back, we have already jumped. It's way to late to have made sure we actually had a parachute on and not just a backpack like so many daffy duck cartoons.
A better analogy is that you've told EU that you're about to jump, and is preparing to jump.
You haven't left the EU yet, so saying that you've already jumped and that there's no going back is wrong.
Can't help but feel that the main thing still pushing the UK towards Brexit is good ol' stupid pride: "We'll look like fools if we change our mind now". Ironically, you (especially May now) already look like fools, especially after this election. It's clear that the UK is heading into chaos and turmoil, which could be prevented quite easily, but you know what they say; pride has killed more people than the plague.
Oh well, have fun with the Brexit negotiations.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/06/09 16:39:13
Well, now that lil game is finished, can we go back to the Brexit negotiations? EU is waiting and ready.
I laughed a bit when I read the negotiator was talking about "being tough but fair" with the UK matter. No kidding, you guys will totally get butchered in the negotiations, now that May showed how stupid she was by playing the same trick than Cameron. And lost. Seriously, if your politicians can't even see through their own Hubris twice, then they have no chance to stand their ground in face of an unforgiving EU.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/09 16:34:36
Vaktathi wrote: Has it crossed anyone's mind (collectively speaking), that perhaps this may be a further indication the Brexit issue should be revisited?
The UK government took a razor thin majority, basically within the margin of error, on a nonbinding referendum as a mandate from the heavens to push through the largest political, economic and foreign relations change in living memory for no real clear reason and with plainly inadequate information and no clear objectives.
Now that the scope of what that will entail is becoming increasingly clear, and that there's still no gameplan or clear expectations or...real objectives, and what will plainly be the inferior position at the negotiating table, perhaps being dead set on pushing that through after a hung parliament isn't a recipe for success?
Would there be value in stepping back, reassessing the situation with newer information and within the context of the current political reality, and asking "is this really still a good idea?"
The Conservative government has to rely on the support of the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP)
The DUP make Trump look like FDR. If it's not in the bible, they don't believe in it. Remind you of any groups in the USA?
That is how much of a clusterfeth the UK is in right now
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sarouan wrote: Well, now that lil game is finished, can we go back to the Brexit negotiations? EU is waiting and ready.
I laughed a bit when I read the negotiator was talking about "being tough but fair" with the UK matter. No kidding, you guys will totally get butchered in the negotiations, now that May showed how stupid she was by playing the same trick than Cameron. And lost. Seriously, if your politicians can't even see through their own Hubris twice, then they have no chance to stand their ground in face of an unforgiving EU.
I don't think I've ever agreed with you, but you're right - we're fethed
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/09 16:42:38
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Very impressed if it's true that the Prime Minister has decided to soldier on. In these circumstances, that takes real courage.
uh huh.
One bright note from last night was the candidate running for the Southampton independence party.
I'm surprised you never brought it up first
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Vaktathi wrote: Has it crossed anyone's mind (collectively speaking), that perhaps this may be a further indication the Brexit issue should be revisited?
The UK government took a razor thin majority, basically within the margin of error, on a nonbinding referendum as a mandate from the heavens to push through the largest political, economic and foreign relations change in living memory for no real clear reason and with plainly inadequate information and no clear objectives.
Now that the scope of what that will entail is becoming increasingly clear, and that there's still no gameplan or clear expectations or...real objectives, and what will plainly be the inferior position at the negotiating table, perhaps being dead set on pushing that through after a hung parliament isn't a recipe for success?
Would there be value in stepping back, reassessing the situation with newer information and within the context of the current political reality, and asking "is this really still a good idea?"
Or, as a slightly harsher formulation of the same question, is leaving the EU worth tearing the entire country down?
A lot of people are getting carried away, but Article 50 was activated. The ship has sailed. Talk of staying in the EU is nonsense.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
A lot of people are getting carried away, but Article 50 was activated. The ship has sailed. Talk of staying in the EU is nonsense.
Naah, if you go back and ask nicely, there will be no problem. Just some pride being hurt, that's all.
Unfortunately, your politicians won't allow it. They don't like looking like buffoons - even if that doesn't keep them from being actual buffoons and everyone else knowing it.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/06/09 16:50:21
ekwatts wrote: Calling the DUP homophobic, misogynistic, racist bigots isn't being a bit naughty. It's stating outright facts.
That the gutter press in the UK like The Sun, The Express and The Daily Mail tried to use Corbyns (idiotic, ill-advised) meetings with the IRA against him and for the Tories to instantly turn to the DUP, with their own dodgy links to loyalist paramilitaries, is absurd. But I understand that they don't really have any choice.
I'm afraid it's worse than naughty your spouting down right lies. What people need to be aware of is we have a very angry IRA caucus along side the usual agressive left wing reaction every time they loose.
Most loyalist paramilitaries will find it particularly difficult to vote for the DUP, they call them the grand old duke of York, for deserting and condeming them when they committed acts of violence. If you care to actually look at anything written by loyalist groups you won't find much possitive about the DUP. In recent times because of the spike in SF votes they have asked their members to vote DUP and Ulster Unionist, purely to protect the union, they have their own parties for local elections they just don't get enough support to stand for Westminster. Ulster Resistance never killed or maimed anyone, the DUP ran a mile from them when they found out some members had imported weapons. Remember this has to be taken in the context of a society exposed to generations of violence.
The moral and social outlook of the DUP is conservative yes, but no more so than you will find in your local baptist church or chapel for that matter. The individuals quoted as climate change deniers don't reflect party policy and you will find similar views in other parties. Their party leader is a woman so misogynistic is an odd label for them.
They are Christian in outlook and I know some people can't have a Christian about the place and will vilify them at every turn but there it is I can't do much about that.
It's likely they could be a moderating influence on Tory policy particularly pension protection and NHS security. But we will have to see how much influence they get.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MonkeyBallistic wrote: People are now asking if an alliance with the DUP is a massive, political mistake. It could mean that the UK government is no longer seen as a neutral party in the talks to restore the Northern Irish assembly.
Conservative Party have consistently stated they aren't neutral on the union. They are the conservative and Unionist Party after all
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/09 16:55:35
A lot of people are getting carried away, but Article 50 was activated. The ship has sailed. Talk of staying in the EU is nonsense.
Naah, if you go back and ask nicely, there will be no problem. Just some pride being hurt, that's all.
Unfortunately, your politicians won't allow it. They don't like looking like buffoons - even if that doesn't keep them from being actual buffoons and everyone else knowing it.
Polls show that the vast majority of the UK public has accepted the referendum result, and want the work to be started.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
And this list of Paul Nuttall' s contributions to UK politics
Spoiler:
.....
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
ekwatts wrote: Calling the DUP homophobic, misogynistic, racist bigots isn't being a bit naughty. It's stating outright facts.
That the gutter press in the UK like The Sun, The Express and The Daily Mail tried to use Corbyns (idiotic, ill-advised) meetings with the IRA against him and for the Tories to instantly turn to the DUP, with their own dodgy links to loyalist paramilitaries, is absurd. But I understand that they don't really have any choice.
I'm afraid it's worse than naughty your spouting down right lies. What people need to be aware of is we have a very angry IRA caucus along side the usual agressive left wing reaction every time they loose.
Most loyalist paramilitaries will find it particularly difficult to vote for the DUP, they call them the grand old duke of York, for deserting and condeming them when they committed acts of violence. If you care to actually look at anything written by loyalist groups you won't find much possitive about the DUP. In recent times because of the spike in SF votes they have asked their members to vote DUP and Ulster Unionist, purely to protect the union, they have their own parties for local elections they just don't get enough support to stand for Westminster. Ulster Resistance never killed or maimed anyone, the DUP ran a mile from them when they found out some members had imported weapons. Remember this has to be taken in the context of a society exposed to generations of violence.
The moral and social outlook of the DUP is conservative yes, but no more so than you will find in your local baptist church or chapel for that matter. The individuals quoted as climate change deniers don't reflect party policy and you will find similar views in other parties. Their party leader is a woman so misogynistic is an odd label for them.
They are Christian in outlook and I know some people can't have a Christian about the place and will vilify them at every turn but there it is I can't do much about that.
It's likely they could be a moderating influence on Tory policy particularly pension protection and NHS security. But we will have to see how much influence they get.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MonkeyBallistic wrote: People are now asking if an alliance with the DUP is a massive, political mistake. It could mean that the UK government is no longer seen as a neutral party in the talks to restore the Northern Irish assembly.
Conservative Party have consistently stated they aren't neutral on the union. They are the conservative and Unionist Party after all
No disrespect to you or any other Northern Ireland dakka member, but I'd rather that Northern Ireland politics stayed in Northern Ireland.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/09 17:01:31
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
ekwatts wrote: Calling the DUP homophobic, misogynistic, racist bigots isn't being a bit naughty. It's stating outright facts.
That the gutter press in the UK like The Sun, The Express and The Daily Mail tried to use Corbyns (idiotic, ill-advised) meetings with the IRA against him and for the Tories to instantly turn to the DUP, with their own dodgy links to loyalist paramilitaries, is absurd. But I understand that they don't really have any choice.
I'm afraid it's worse than naughty your spouting down right lies. What people need to be aware of is we have a very angry IRA caucus along side the usual agressive left wing reaction every time they loose.
Most loyalist paramilitaries will find it particularly difficult to vote for the DUP, they call them the grand old duke of York, for deserting and condeming them when they committed acts of violence. If you care to actually look at anything written by loyalist groups you won't find much possitive about the DUP. In recent times because of the spike in SF votes they have asked their members to vote DUP and Ulster Unionist, purely to protect the union, they have their own parties for local elections they just don't get enough support to stand for Westminster. Ulster Resistance never killed or maimed anyone, the DUP ran a mile from them when they found out some members had imported weapons. Remember this has to be taken in the context of a society exposed to generations of violence.
The moral and social outlook of the DUP is conservative yes, but no more so than you will find in your local baptist church or chapel for that matter. The individuals quoted as climate change deniers don't reflect party policy and you will find similar views in other parties. Their party leader is a woman so misogynistic is an odd label for them.
They are Christian in outlook and I know some people can't have a Christian about the place and will vilify them at every turn but there it is I can't do much about that.
It's likely they could be a moderating influence on Tory policy particularly pension protection and NHS security. But we will have to see how much influence they get.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MonkeyBallistic wrote: People are now asking if an alliance with the DUP is a massive, political mistake. It could mean that the UK government is no longer seen as a neutral party in the talks to restore the Northern Irish assembly.
Conservative Party have consistently stated they aren't neutral on the union. They are the conservative and Unionist Party after all
No disrespect to you or any other Northern Ireland dakka member, but I'd rather that Northern Ireland politics stayed in Northern Ireland.
A lot of people are getting carried away, but Article 50 was activated. The ship has sailed. Talk of staying in the EU is nonsense.
Naah, if you go back and ask nicely, there will be no problem. Just some pride being hurt, that's all.
Unfortunately, your politicians won't allow it. They don't like looking like buffoons - even if that doesn't keep them from being actual buffoons and everyone else knowing it.
Polls show that the vast majority of the UK public has accepted the referendum result, and want the work to be started.
To be fair, one would think that in the last 12 months, polls would be understood to be...less reliable than previously expected. Polls predicted Brexit wouldnt happen, that Clinton would win, that Macron would probably not be the next president of France (at least at the election outset), and that May would expand her majority with a comfortable lead.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
No disrespect was intended to you guys. Northern Ireland is a beautiful country, with some great people.
And here are my two final points about Northern Ireland:
1. Because of what happened in the Troubles, I hope you guys can understand why people in the rest of the UK shy away from Northern Ireland politics. I'm not picking sides or blaming people.
2. It is for the people of Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland to decide their future.
A lot of people are getting carried away, but Article 50 was activated. The ship has sailed. Talk of staying in the EU is nonsense.
Naah, if you go back and ask nicely, there will be no problem. Just some pride being hurt, that's all.
Unfortunately, your politicians won't allow it. They don't like looking like buffoons - even if that doesn't keep them from being actual buffoons and everyone else knowing it.
Polls show that the vast majority of the UK public has accepted the referendum result, and want the work to be started.
To be fair, one would think that in the last 12 months, polls would be understood to be...less reliable than previously expected. Polls predicted Brexit wouldnt happen, that Clinton would win, that Macron would probably not be the next president of France (at least at the election outset), and that May would expand her majority with a comfortable lead.
You think you have it bad with Trump? At least you guys actually picked somebody!
We're divided on everything.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/09 17:24:11
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
ekwatts wrote: Calling the DUP homophobic, misogynistic, racist bigots isn't being a bit naughty. It's stating outright facts.
That the gutter press in the UK like The Sun, The Express and The Daily Mail tried to use Corbyns (idiotic, ill-advised) meetings with the IRA against him and for the Tories to instantly turn to the DUP, with their own dodgy links to loyalist paramilitaries, is absurd. But I understand that they don't really have any choice.
I'm afraid it's worse than naughty your spouting down right lies. What people need to be aware of is we have a very angry IRA caucus along side the usual agressive left wing reaction every time they loose.
Most loyalist paramilitaries will find it particularly difficult to vote for the DUP, they call them the grand old duke of York, for deserting and condeming them when they committed acts of violence. If you care to actually look at anything written by loyalist groups you won't find much possitive about the DUP. In recent times because of the spike in SF votes they have asked their members to vote DUP and Ulster Unionist, purely to protect the union, they have their own parties for local elections they just don't get enough support to stand for Westminster. Ulster Resistance never killed or maimed anyone, the DUP ran a mile from them when they found out some members had imported weapons. Remember this has to be taken in the context of a society exposed to generations of violence.
The moral and social outlook of the DUP is conservative yes, but no more so than you will find in your local baptist church or chapel for that matter. The individuals quoted as climate change deniers don't reflect party policy and you will find similar views in other parties. Their party leader is a woman so misogynistic is an odd label for them.
They are Christian in outlook and I know some people can't have a Christian about the place and will vilify them at every turn but there it is I can't do much about that.
It's likely they could be a moderating influence on Tory policy particularly pension protection and NHS security. But we will have to see how much influence they get.
You can't deny that the DUP have links with loyalist paramilitaries to do so is just burying your head in the sand. The helped found the Ulster Resistance movement which helped the UDA and UVF acquire weapons, the openly have talks and pose for pictures with the UDA still and I'm pretty sure they endorsed men like Billy Wright a notorious sectarian murderer? Even if you want to pretend all of this never happened much of Corbyn's critics have said about him standing for a minutes silence to remember Loughgall yet the DUP have no problem with doing this for loyalist paramilitaries, pot and kettle seriously come to mind.
And for the climate change deniers not representing the party? They put forward one of them (Sammy Wilson) for the Environments ministers post so one must assume that is the party line.
The influential 1922 Committee of Tory backbench MPs is due to meet on Tuesday.
Let the back stabbing begin
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
welshhoppo wrote: Unfortunately we have already triggered article 50.
There is no way back, we have already jumped. It's way to late to have made sure we actually had a parachute on and not just a backpack like so many daffy duck cartoons.
However, your point supports my point made last year that this election should have been called before triggering Article 50.
5500 pts 
6500 pts 
7000 pts 
9000 pts 
13.000 pts 
