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She ran a negative campaign that focused more on criticizing the other side rather than offering anything remotely positive, and those don't work. And she didn't help matters by attacking her own voting base with that Dementia Tax. Corbyn to his credit at least had the sense to energize his with things like free tuition.
Yeah, he did persuade the young to turn up and vote for him. Bloody students!
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
And people still vote for them. I will never understand why
Because until recently with Corbyn we had no real alternative. Labour was no better, and the toxic legacy of NEw LAbour and in particular Tony Blair has not yet been forgotten.
I still loathe the Labour party for the Iraq War, but Corbyn is doing a good job of reforming the party and taking it back from the Blairites and its getting to the point where I can actually consider voting for Labour as a party now. (In fact I did, but for Phil Wilson as an individual MP. I'm still on the fence about the Labour party).
Peter Hitchens comments on the state of the Tory party, I think he's spot on. The Conservative party needs to die so a genuine conservative party can take its place, much like how genuine Socialists have taken back the Labour party.
Spoiler:
The laughable failure of Mrs Theresa May’s empty, tremulous campaign was in fact predictable. I suspected it would happen. But I mostly kept quiet about it here for the past few weeks.
This was not because I have any time for Mrs May and her feeble, politically correct government, but because I did not much want to help Jeremy Corbyn either. And at election time, there’s no room for neutrality.
There’s one good outcome. This farcical unwanted Election must surely have shown everyone a key fact – we now live in a country where the supposed natural party of government can no longer really command a majority.
That’s like having a fridge that doesn’t keep your food fresh, or a bicycle with no wheels. If we had any sense (do we?) we’d dump this dead, rotting faction in the nearest skip or landfill, and find a new one to replace it. The Tories failed on Thursday because they have long believed in nothing and are interested only in being in office.
They won in 2015 only because of a grotesque splurge of millionaire donations, and ultra-expensive black magic techniques, which partly made up for the collapse of their once-majestic membership and the machine it supported.
They are, in effect, a zombie party, lurching and shuffling along in a procession of the undead, thanks to transfusions of money and the BBC’s ancient broadcasting rules, which guarantee them air time.
What happened next must be one of the strangest chapters in our history. Labour (which had itself become a zombie party under Blairite control) changed its leadership election rules, and accidentally made it possible for a real socialist to win. You’d never get a real conservative coming to the top of the Tory Party, which has elaborate mechanisms in place to stop that happening.
Odder still, the man who won, Jeremy Corbyn, was astonishingly old-fashioned, a country-bred grammar school boy brought up by parents who had taken part in the great political struggles of the 1930s.
He is out of his time, which is no bad thing. To see him address a rally in modern Britain (as I have done) is a bit like going to the station to catch your regular commuter service, and finding a steam train waiting at the platform – surprising, nostalgic, wheezy and ancient, more or less certain to break down, but wonderfully picturesque.
It struck me as I watched him that he was far more dangerous than the Tories thought he was. His absolute courtesy and refusal to make personal attacks appealed to many in my generation who remember a different and in some ways better Britain.
His realisation that George Osborne’s supposed economic miracle was a sham, and that many have lost hope of getting steady, well-paid jobs or secure homes, appealed to the young. He may not have any actual answers to these questions, but he at least knew they were being asked. His absolute opposition to the repeated stupid wars of recent years also has a wide appeal, in many cases to conservative-minded people and Service families sick of the waste of good lives.
A genuinely patriotic, socially conservative party might have had a proper response to these things. But the Tory Party is not that. It is just a cold machine which runs on gallons of expensive snake oil. So it decided to attack Mr Corbyn personally.
This bounced off him. In fact, the long Tory assault on Mr Corbyn was his greatest asset. When the campaign began, and people had a chance to see what he was really like, especially his dogged politeness under fire, they did that rather moving thing that British people do when they see a lone individual besieged by foes. They sided with him against his tormentors.
It was no good raving about Mr Corbyn’s Sinn Fein connections, when the Tories have themselves compelled the Queen to have the grisly IRA gangster Martin McGuinness to dinner at Windsor.
It’s not much good attacking his defence policy when the Tories have cut the Army to ribbons and the decrepit remnants of the Navy sit motionless by the dockside, thanks to Tory cheeseparing. And now there’s an even bigger problem.
The young, who used not to bother, have begun to vote in large numbers, and Jeremy Corbyn has persuaded them to do it. Labour’s 40 per cent of the vote, almost 13 million ballots, reflects this.
The Tories cannot rely forever on the fact that older voters turn out more reliably. This is the last warning conservative-minded people in this country are likely to get.
Unless they can find their own Corbyn, a principled and genuinely patriotic leadership, no amount of money, and no amount of slick technique can save them from a revived and newly confident Left.
They failed to win this Election. There’s a strong chance they will actually lose the next one.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/11 13:28:47
Theresa May has been warned that she should hand Nigel Farage a peerage and a government job on her Brexit negotiating team or face a relaunch of Ukip that will leach votes from the Tories at the next election.
Arron Banks, formerly Ukip’s biggest donor, held discussions with Farage on Friday about whether to launch a new Eurosceptic movement, backed up by his millions — or whether to seize control of Ukip again and give the party a makeover.
A source familiar with the discussion said senior figures in the Democratic Unionist Party, which is in coalition talks with May but has close links to Farage, would press for him to be involved in the Brexit negotiations. “They hold a few cards,” the source said. “They want Farage as a lord or a role in government or he and Arron will put something together that will cause trouble for May.”
Donald Trump has told Theresa May in a phone call he does not want to go ahead with a state visit to Britain until the British public supports him coming.
.. are you gonna tell him or can I ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/11 12:47:57
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
On the supposed terrorist claims, which has everyone over here, bar SF supporters scratching their heads. Just so you know. None of the 10 MPs have ever been charged, convicted of or made statements in support of terrorist groups. However 3 of them have had family members killed by terrorists. One of them served in the British Army defending the citizens of Northern Ireland alongside soldiers from across the UK. And the female leader you don't acknowledge had had her father shot by terrorists as a child while she was feet away. Terrorists also placed a bomb on her school bus when she was a child. Nearly killing her and her classmates.
A little more study would go along way.
And neither do the 7 SFMP's elected as far as I'm so you should probably stop referring to them as terrorists now too?
You keep ignoring the facts that the DUP are linked with the UDA and had their support in this election campaign with Arlene Foster being in talks with them just days after the killed a man in front of his 3 year old son in a car park.
What about John Finucane's dad Pat he was murdered by the UDA for being a human rights lawyer. This was all done in collusion with the British government and the regiment that Knockagh refers to as defending civilians.
Donald Trump has told Theresa May in a phone call he does not want to go ahead with a state visit to Britain until the British public supports him coming.
Probably the smartest thing he's ever said. Maybe the only smart thing he's ever said... It'll certainly make the Governments life a lot easier too, never having to do one.
And people still vote for them. I will never understand why
Because until recently with Corbyn we had no real alternative. Labour was no better, and the toxic legacy of NEw LAbour and in particular Tony Blair has not yet been forgotten.
I still loathe the Labour party for the Iraq War, but Corbyn is doing a good job of reforming the party and taking it back from the Blairites and its getting to the point where I can actually consider voting for Labour as a party now. (In fact I did
Peter Hitchens comments on the state of the Tory party, I think he's spot on. The Conservative party needs to die so a genuine conservative party can take its place, much like how genuine Socialists have taken back the Labour party.
Spoiler:
The laughable failure of Mrs Theresa May’s empty, tremulous campaign was in fact predictable. I suspected it would happen. But I mostly kept quiet about it here for the past few weeks.
This was not because I have any time for Mrs May and her feeble, politically correct government, but because I did not much want to help Jeremy Corbyn either. And at election time, there’s no room for neutrality.
There’s one good outcome. This farcical unwanted Election must surely have shown everyone a key fact – we now live in a country where the supposed natural party of government can no longer really command a majority.
That’s like having a fridge that doesn’t keep your food fresh, or a bicycle with no wheels. If we had any sense (do we?) we’d dump this dead, rotting faction in the nearest skip or landfill, and find a new one to replace it. The Tories failed on Thursday because they have long believed in nothing and are interested only in being in office.
They won in 2015 only because of a grotesque splurge of millionaire donations, and ultra-expensive black magic techniques, which partly made up for the collapse of their once-majestic membership and the machine it supported.
They are, in effect, a zombie party, lurching and shuffling along in a procession of the undead, thanks to transfusions of money and the BBC’s ancient broadcasting rules, which guarantee them air time.
What happened next must be one of the strangest chapters in our history. Labour (which had itself become a zombie party under Blairite control) changed its leadership election rules, and accidentally made it possible for a real socialist to win. You’d never get a real conservative coming to the top of the Tory Party, which has elaborate mechanisms in place to stop that happening.
Odder still, the man who won, Jeremy Corbyn, was astonishingly old-fashioned, a country-bred grammar school boy brought up by parents who had taken part in the great political struggles of the 1930s.
He is out of his time, which is no bad thing. To see him address a rally in modern Britain (as I have done) is a bit like going to the station to catch your regular commuter service, and finding a steam train waiting at the platform – surprising, nostalgic, wheezy and ancient, more or less certain to break down, but wonderfully picturesque.
It struck me as I watched him that he was far more dangerous than the Tories thought he was. His absolute courtesy and refusal to make personal attacks appealed to many in my generation who remember a different and in some ways better Britain.
His realisation that George Osborne’s supposed economic miracle was a sham, and that many have lost hope of getting steady, well-paid jobs or secure homes, appealed to the young. He may not have any actual answers to these questions, but he at least knew they were being asked. His absolute opposition to the repeated stupid wars of recent years also has a wide appeal, in many cases to conservative-minded people and Service families sick of the waste of good lives.
A genuinely patriotic, socially conservative party might have had a proper response to these things. But the Tory Party is not that. It is just a cold machine which runs on gallons of expensive snake oil. So it decided to attack Mr Corbyn personally.
This bounced off him. In fact, the long Tory assault on Mr Corbyn was his greatest asset. When the campaign began, and people had a chance to see what he was really like, especially his dogged politeness under fire, they did that rather moving thing that British people do when they see a lone individual besieged by foes. They sided with him against his tormentors.
It was no good raving about Mr Corbyn’s Sinn Fein connections, when the Tories have themselves compelled the Queen to have the grisly IRA gangster Martin McGuinness to dinner at Windsor.
It’s not much good attacking his defence policy when the Tories have cut the Army to ribbons and the decrepit remnants of the Navy sit motionless by the dockside, thanks to Tory cheeseparing. And now there’s an even bigger problem.
The young, who used not to bother, have begun to vote in large numbers, and Jeremy Corbyn has persuaded them to do it. Labour’s 40 per cent of the vote, almost 13 million ballots, reflects this.
The Tories cannot rely forever on the fact that older voters turn out more reliably. This is the last warning conservative-minded people in this country are likely to get.
Unless they can find their own Corbyn, a principled and genuinely patriotic leadership, no amount of money, and no amount of slick technique can save them from a revived and newly confident Left.
They failed to win this Election. There’s a strong chance they will actually lose the next one.
Hitchens is spot on.
I'm also worried about Brexit. The Remainers are taking advantage of a weak May, and it could see us ending up with a weasel deal with the EU, which is EU membership in all but name.
Soft Brexit is making a comeback.
Damn May
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
What Hitchen's means by 'a real Conservative' would be utterly unelectable in Britain. I'd quite like the Tories to install one, to be fair. It'd be some laugh.
Executions for cannabis possession. Woohoo!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/11 13:03:47
nfe wrote: What Hitchen's means by 'a real Conservative' would be utterly unelectable in Britain. I'd quite like the Tories to install one, to be fair. It'd be some laugh.
Executions for cannabis possession. Woohoo!
For years, the Blairites were saying that a proper socialist would lead Labour to disaster, but that was blown out of the water. Who's to say that a proper Conservative, and not a blue Blairite, couldn't do the same for the Tories?
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
nfe wrote: What Hitchen's means by 'a real Conservative' would be utterly unelectable in Britain. I'd quite like the Tories to install one, to be fair. It'd be some laugh.
Executions for cannabis possession. Woohoo!
For years, the Blairites were saying that a proper socialist would lead Labour to disaster, but that was blown out of the water. Who's to say that a proper Conservative, and not a blue Blairite, couldn't do the same for the Tories?
Blue Blairite
People like socialist policies. Always have. Leftist policies are always head and shoulders above those of the right in party-blind polling.
The country is simply far too liberal for what Hitchens percieves 'real conservatism' to be. He's not a particularly hard right economist, it's all aboute moralism. Not many people fancy prosecution for breaking the sabbath (barring some maniacs on the islands), repealing equal marriage, reintroducing corporal punishment amd stressing compulsory Christian worship in schools, bringing back capital punishment, or following Saudieasque drugs policy, for instance.
I'm not saying a more conservative Conserative party couldn't be successful, I'm saying one that satisfies Hitchens' interpretation of the term has no chance.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/11 13:23:38
Theresa May has been warned that she should hand Nigel Farage a peerage and a government job on her Brexit negotiating team or face a relaunch of Ukip that will leach votes from the Tories at the next election.
Arron Banks, formerly Ukip’s biggest donor, held discussions with Farage on Friday about whether to launch a new Eurosceptic movement, backed up by his millions — or whether to seize control of Ukip again and give the party a makeover.
A source familiar with the discussion said senior figures in the Democratic Unionist Party, which is in coalition talks with May but has close links to Farage, would press for him to be involved in the Brexit negotiations. “They hold a few cards,” the source said. “They want Farage as a lord or a role in government or he and Arron will put something together that will cause trouble for May.”
This personality cult around Farage totally baffles me.
The problem is we don't really know this because there's an added complication that hasn't been there before. It's called education; generally this makes them more socially aware and higher educations usually relates to more left wing votes. We could be on the cusp of changing politics as the 90's and millennials have significantly better education and that might trump the age = conservative. We'll probably know over the next 15-20 years. If education trumps age then we will see a slow push of elderly voters moving towards left wing policies over time. Perhaps it is already happening, Tory supporter (as in those that have joined the party) base is already aging rapidly.
Curious. In finland higher education usually lead toward right side rather than left.
I don't really know enough about Finland's education policy to know. Very boradly 50 years ago the UK would have been the same though. The majority of university students were from wealthy backgrounds and hence there was intrinsic bias to keeping the status quo and the wealth with those that already had it (hence more right wing leanings). However in the last 20 years or so university education has been opened up to pretty much everyone (though at cost) and hence there does seem to be growing direction of left wing ideals in the student population. I'm not sure how that compares?
Ignore anything about climate change,abortion, or anything about The Troubles.
You can't ignore these issues, though. You can largely ignore the Troubles, because most people in Britain are woefully clueless about the issues beyond being able to essentially map the main players onto nationalist/Catholic/unionist/Protestant, but being a creationist, a homophobe, a climate-change denier, or being anti-abortion, (and being proud of it, as opposed to downplaying something you said years ago) are all career-enders for politicians in Britain. Hell, the only question Tim Farron was asked for months was 'do you believe homosexuality is a sin?'. The Tories are going to be skewered on a daily basis as bigots by association.
Yeah they it's going to be very hard for them now to hurl these sorts of attacks on other parties when they are getting into bed with similar sort of people.
Here's some more fun stuff that DUP have got up to that the Tories are joining at the hip with
The problem May is going to have is that every time they say something that most of the UK vehemently opposes someone is going to ask whether she supports it. And like with Trump she is going to squirm badly. Much like the way Fallon did
I'm also worried about Brexit. The Remainers are taking advantage of a weak May, and it could see us ending up with a weasel deal with the EU, which is EU membership in all but name.
Soft Brexit is making a comeback.
Damn May
Wrexit is only a short term thing even if it goes through. The majority of the younger populace/educated populace don't want it. Even if does get through then I would say it is 10-15 years before we go back in as the populace dynamic shifts. Soft Brexit may make things easier in this regard.
For years, the Blairites were saying that a proper socialist would lead Labour to disaster, but that was blown out of the water. Who's to say that a proper Conservative, and not a blue Blairite, couldn't do the same for the Tories?
I think the difference is that they weren't expecting a Tory government to go hard right. A centrist Tory government probably wouldn't have been hit so hard especially why you have a FPTP system that favours them.
I think you can blame Cameron as well. He only called a Wrexit referendum on the basis that it would shut up a small proportion of the anti-EUMPs. It was a political proposal without really considering the consequences if we voted unexpectedly. He pretty much knew it was all going to end in tears when he resigned and walked away whistling.
Donald Trump has told Theresa May in a phone call he does not want to go ahead with a state visit to Britain until the British public supports him coming.
.. are you gonna tell him or can I ?
According to Huffington Post he doesn't want to come along whilst there is a risk of large scale protests (or he doesn't want to see that a significant fraction of the UK are opposed to him). Allegedly he won't come to the UK until that risk subsides.
I think he might waiting way beyond being the President.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/06/11 14:19:03
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
Donald Trump has told Theresa May in a phone call he does not want to go ahead with a state visit to Britain until the British public supports him coming.
.. are you gonna tell him or can I ?
According to Huffington Post he doesn't want to come along whilst there is a risk of large scale protests (or he doesn't want to see that a significant fraction of the UK are opposed to him). Allegedly he won't come to the UK until that risk subsides.
It's a wonder he ever thought it would be otherwise. The last time he was here people turned out en masse in the middle of the Scottish coutryside to throw golf balls printed like Nazi flags at him whilst a brass orchestra played jazz/polka versions of the Imperial March and Another Brick in the Wall.
Visiting a major city was going to see colossal (and probably delightfully whimsical) protests.
You're making the classic mistake of thinking that just because people supported X when they were 18, doesn't mean to say they will still support X when they are 45.
As I sit here, balding, and middle aged, I'm sorry to say that the young don't stay young for ever...
Attitudes and views change. It may surprise you to know that in my youth, I was a Labour voter and broadly supportive of the EEC/EU.
Nowadays, I'm none of those things.
We can't go back into the EU for the simple reason that going cap in hand to Brussels will see us getting a worse deal, with probably adopting the Euro as part of that agreement. The British public would never accept that.
Also, Brexit has to happen, otherwise in 2019, we're in the farcical situation of electing British MEPs
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Attitudes and views change. It may surprise you to know that in my youth, I was a Labour voter and broadly supportive of the EEC/EU.
Nowadays, I'm none of those things.
It's probably more likely that might have generally been supportive of leaving the EU will actually be more inclined to be supportive on this basis simply because there are more of them. We can not definitively say one way or another, all we can compare is to current events and opinions. The youth of 20/30 years ago is not the youth of today. They have access to many more things, than we use to have, whether that is free movement and work in the EU to teach skiing, more exposure to people from across the world and so on.
We can't go back into the EU for the simple reason that going cap in hand to Brussels will see us getting a worse deal, with probably adopting the Euro as part of that agreement. The British public would never accept that.
Well if we've trashed the pound and the economy is floundering/stagnating then we may want to join the Euro to give some surety over the value of our currency.
Also, Brexit has to happen, otherwise in 2019, we're in the farcical situation of electing British MEPs
Well you never know we might go and vote for useful MEPs rather than ones that want to deliberately sabotage the EU. That might change the dynamics (and influence in the EU) as well. Never say never!
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
You're making the classic mistake of thinking that just because people supported X when they were 18, doesn't mean to say they will still support X when they are 45.
As I sit here, balding, and middle aged, I'm sorry to say that the young don't stay young for ever...
Attitudes and views change. It may surprise you to know that in my youth, I was a Labour voter and broadly supportive of the EEC/EU.
Nowadays, I'm none of those things.
Sure, people change. When I was 18 I was vaguely social democratic. Twelve years later I'm a communist.
Young people don't support Labour just because they're young and youths have some intrinsic leftward lean. Labour had such a crushing lead among young people because Labour through Corbyn have put forth policies that appeal to young people's material circumstances.
That puts DUP even more in the driving seat as another election could see Tories completely losing completely and putting Labour in the clear majority.
To be honest I still can't quite believe what has happened - 12 months ago it looked like Labour were in a complete mess, now it's the Tories and basically doing things that just help the opposition.
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
Theresa May has been warned that she should hand Nigel Farage a peerage and a government job on her Brexit negotiating team or face a relaunch of Ukip that will leach votes from the Tories at the next election.
Arron Banks, formerly Ukip’s biggest donor, held discussions with Farage on Friday about whether to launch a new Eurosceptic movement, backed up by his millions — or whether to seize control of Ukip again and give the party a makeover.
A source familiar with the discussion said senior figures in the Democratic Unionist Party, which is in coalition talks with May but has close links to Farage, would press for him to be involved in the Brexit negotiations. “They hold a few cards,” the source said. “They want Farage as a lord or a role in government or he and Arron will put something together that will cause trouble for May.”
This personality cult around Farage totally baffles me.
On reflection, and having been pretty anti-UKIP in the past, I have now decided that we absolutely need UKIP, or equivalent, and someone like Farage. Primarily because it splits the right wing vote. The Tories have been desperate to crush UKIP for this very reason, but I think it's quite likely that there maybe a new right wing party in the offing. The conservatives are struggling to represent the variety of right wing opinion and ideas, and this makes them vulnerable to pandering to minority parts of their party.
But interestingly most conservative supporters that I know are in deep denial about what's just happened. One chap is convinced that if May appeared more "compassionate" then she'd have had it in the bag, despite her manifesto. Another one blames left wing memes, and maintains that people are too stupid to realise what they've done. Both were vehement leave advocates.
It's fething delicious.
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
That puts DUP even more in the driving seat as another election could see Tories completely losing completely and putting Labour in the clear majority.
To be honest I still can't quite believe what has happened - 12 months ago it looked like Labour were in a complete mess, now it's the Tories and basically doing things that just help the opposition.
I think the election was perfect for Corbyn. He is very much at home campaigning. He loves going to rallies and talking to people and he is good at it. Which he should be with the amount of experience he has with it. Before now we hadn't really seen this side of him and the narrative was dominated by the idiotic MP rebellions against him and the aftermath.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
That puts DUP even more in the driving seat as another election could see Tories completely losing completely and putting Labour in the clear majority.
To be honest I still can't quite believe what has happened - 12 months ago it looked like Labour were in a complete mess, now it's the Tories and basically doing things that just help the opposition.
I think the election was perfect for Corbyn. He is very much at home campaigning. He loves going to rallies and talking to people and he is good at it. Which he should be with the amount of experience he has with it. Before now we hadn't really seen this side of him and the narrative was dominated by the idiotic MP rebellions against him and the aftermath.
I have never really liked JC but Ill give him his due, against someone as stilted and awkward as May he was pretty damn successful. He does engage really well with people. Ultimately I could see him winning an election if one was to come around soon.
Politics hasn't changed much though. Style over substance may have gotten Labour some more seats. It's interesting how Labour are now defining the battle lines regarding young vs old, Seems New Labour Spin isnt as dead as I thought.
A Town Called Malus wrote: I think the election was perfect for Corbyn. He is very much at home campaigning. He loves going to rallies and talking to people and he is good at it. Which he should be with the amount of experience he has with it. Before now we hadn't really seen this side of him and the narrative was dominated by the idiotic MP rebellions against him and the aftermath.
Got to agree, the man's a natural at addressing audiences. He was accused of only appealing to those that were going to vote for him anyway, but I think his good showing in interviews against an antagonistically biased press, coupled with May's disastrous lack of appeal, worked perfectly for him. It's the same argument for why Sanders maybe should have been the Democratic choice over Clinton.
Both May and Clinton are policy wonks with limited popular appeal. They might be fine at whatever it is they are doing but sadly being a politician also involves being a personality and making the electorate want to vote for you. Corbyn has that talent.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/11 17:34:57
A Town Called Malus wrote: I think the election was perfect for Corbyn. He is very much at home campaigning. He loves going to rallies and talking to people and he is good at it. Which he should be with the amount of experience he has with it. Before now we hadn't really seen this side of him and the narrative was dominated by the idiotic MP rebellions against him and the aftermath.
Got to agree, the man's a natural at addressing audiences. He was accused of only appealing to those that were going to vote for him anyway, but I think his good showing in interviews against an antagonistically biased press, coupled with May's disastrous lack of appeal, worked perfectly for him. It's the same argument for why Sanders maybe should have been the Democratic choice over Clinton.
Both May and Clinton are policy wonks with limited popular appeal. They might be fine at whatever it is they are doing but sadly being a politician also involves being a personality and making the electorate want to vote for you. Corbyn has that talent.
Not that it really bothered me, but his easy rapport vanished when questioned on past support for the IRA and groups like Hamas. He became more 'political'. I'm not certain that if in power we wouldn't see more of that Corbyn than the one people were voting for.
Obviously the media are out to get him and trip him up but he really isn't a breath of fresh political air.
He's probably still better than what remains of the Blairites.
I'm no Corbyn fan, but to give the man credit, he is good on the stump, but you need more than that to become a good PM.
I still haven't forgotten the Trident debacle of months ago, and McDonnell in charge of the money, and Abbott in charge of law and order, is a receipe for disaster.
I support taking the trains back, and so on, but it doesn't exactly set the world on fire, and it's miles away from the grand plan 21st century Britain needs.
And on another note, I've noticed that 80% of MPs were elected on manifesto promises of taking the UK out of the single market.
A lot of Corbyn voters are also leave voters, so he'll have to tread carefully.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
I'm also completely puzzled at the right wing groups on FB not grasping why this was a victory for Corbyn?
I think partially it is a psychology thing. Our traits in some way can be quite predictable. A football team that is about to get relegated will see fans leaving by the droves before a game finishes or maybe just not even turn up for those not completely dedicated to the cause. As a species we don't like losing...
On the other hand a team that is winning enjoys increasing popularity, fills stands with supporters and more and more people rally behind them.
As such supporters try and defend the losing team because by not doing so a drift away from their team becomes a rout, because you are admitting that you are unfit for 'the game' whereas the opposition is.
Corbyn/Labour did win because he is in the best possible position. May somehow has to get on with Wrexit but with a tiny majority with a party that's split about 70:30 towards pro-EU. Yet she is trying to hold onto the hard Brexit crowd that left UKIP (whilst remainers/soft Wrexit supporters left for Labour). This is at the same time that she has to compromise with a group of NI politicians whose views are historical in their relevance and most of the rest of the UK find unpalatable. If there is a push to harden peoples rights (like abortion) then there will be uproar both publicly and in her own party. Corbyn can keep adding amendments to the legislation in line with his manifesto. Those that go through he will be able to claim are his, whilst criticising those that the Tories get wrong. At the same time with an inability to negotiate effectively with the EU it's likely to lead to an economical nightmare for the country as companies decide they've had enough and leave for more stable EU locations, and throughout this May is going to have to negotiate permanently with her own MPs to stop the conservative party conference/meetings turning into the back alleys of Commoragh.
Corbyn just has to wait and poke the Tories. They will lose credibility that they are the party of stability and financial security and the next election could go very badly, especially if the youth movement gathers more momentum and engagement.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/11 18:54:45
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
It turns out that, in Scotland, charges related to anti-Catholic hate crimes up 28%.
I'm sure this is totally unconnected to Scottish Tories doing everything they can to whip up unionist rhetoric and will in no way be further exacerbated by giving Westminster prominence the to NI unionists that Scottish bigots wish they could vote for.
This personality cult around Farage totally baffles me.
