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Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Is there any kind of copyright on laws? EU regulations and laws are public knowledge, so once out of the European Union whats to stop us from simply picking and choosing which laws and regulations we like and which ones we don't like? Just outright plagiarize the EU. What are they gonna do, sue us for copyright infringement?
Look up the great repeal bill.
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:Is there any kind of copyright on laws? EU regulations and laws are public knowledge, so once out of the European Union whats to stop us from simply picking and choosing which laws and regulations we like and which ones we don't like? Just outright plagiarize the EU. What are they gonna do, sue us for copyright infringement?
Your politicians? From what I know laws are generally and usually public domain (except of you live in some totalitarian regime but then you have bigger problems than not having access to your own laws) or some other very accessible variation of laws so every citizen can have easy access to all of them. It's one of your fundamental rights to know what's going on in your country and that's part of it and this access also makes things like accessibility for blind people easier. How would you legally restrict access to laws without it causing conflicts with basic human rights?
I know that there are occasionally some lower level agencies that try to get their own way (to protect their power or something like that) push people around but these instances usually stop once somebody higher up the political food chain (who's not affected by these lower level politics) gets involved.
If anything, the original legislator will be flattered.
Just credit the originalcpuntry in the law like a essay refrence.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/19 15:41:56
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
B. Yes fire is buring air and even steel, gold, glass and concrete cam burn with enough heat.
However . Surely there should have been some kinda of fire break in the panaling no?
Isolation. My dad works in building, mostly new builds. This only "low" builds too like 3-4 story max. The regulations get tighter the taller you get of course.
He has to install all kind of fire socks between floors and buildings etc and such. They act as breaks to slow down a fire that gets going. They won,t stop it but they are jus there to buy time so you can escape. Surely the cladding required some form of isolation barriers.
Yes this is the same for external cladding, but it only stops updrafts if there are gaps between the wall and the cladding. From the pictures it looks like it spread on the outside of the building because of the updrafts from a hot fire. Internal systems of blocking fire progression does not work here....
Yes, some regulations might of stopped this but also not all the red tape and judgements in Brussels where helpful too. Some save lives. Others are a downright waste of paper.
Id take each case as and such om own merit in that regard.
I do agree we should adopt the US or EU standards on cladding though.
But which ones? The EU combined has more resources and employs more experts to advise than the UK government does (with views on 'experts' are denigrating unless they can put the blame on them or get them out of a pickle). Experts had advised the government about the fire risks on tower blocks but they were ignored. Do we really expect the UK government to comply with trying to clean up areas of high air pollution once they leave the UK. These areas might result in 100,000s of additional deaths over a decade but because it is not a disaster of Grenfell proportions (because the deaths don't happen all at once) then it can be quietly forgotten. How do you know which ones have prevented a disaster and which ones haven't. None of us can see the outcomes of one piece of legislation over the other. Suppose Grenfell hadn't happened because we complied with EU regs. Suppose there was then people whining that it cost money and jobs because it was 'red tape'. In this alternative universe no one knows about Grenfell, no disaster is seen. Is that then a waste of paper?
So wait we are leaving the EU and now want to copy their legislation? Wouldn't it just be easier to stay in the EU?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/19 17:52:35
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
.guess they don't use the phase over there then ..??
Or, fair play to Liz
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/19 18:35:37
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
It took Cameron less than six days to hammer out a deal with Clegg (not exactly ideal bedfellows), including agreeing to a very important legal change, the fixed term parliament.
It's now ten days later and May still hasn't gotten the DUP (a supposed natural ally) to fall in line.
She can't even sort a deal with ten representatives from Northern Ireland who agree with her on most things. The twenty seven states of the EU are going to chew her up. How's that strong and stable looking, May?
In other words, they think they have her over a barrel and are pressing her for more than she's comfortably prepared to give.
They'd better be careful, they might find she decides to form a minority government instead. She's not so far short of a majority that she can't get decent uncontroversial legislation through and do a John Major. In some ways, I think that might actually be for the best.
So wait we are leaving the EU and now want to copy their legislation? Wouldn't it just be easier to stay in the EU?
We should copy their legislation when it suits us, and ignore it when it doesn't.
So based on Grenfell Tower then that means ignoring stronger health and safety and social aspects then as long as it favours lower business costs? We had the opportunity to make fire regulations tougher - we did not. What does that imply about which legislation we are likely to favour in the future?
.guess they don't use the phase over there then ..??
Or, fair play to Liz
Well the Duke is retiring from public life, maybe he retiring from all public services and they need a replacement.....
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/20 17:44:47
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
So wait we are leaving the EU and now want to copy their legislation? Wouldn't it just be easier to stay in the EU?
We should copy their legislation when it suits us, and ignore it when it doesn't.
So based on Grenfell Tower then that means ignoring stronger health and safety and social aspects then as long as it favours lower business costs? We had the opportunity to make fire regulations tougher - we did not. What does that imply about which legislation we are likely to favour in the future?
So vote for a party that favours tougher regulations.
So wait we are leaving the EU and now want to copy their legislation? Wouldn't it just be easier to stay in the EU?
We should copy their legislation when it suits us, and ignore it when it doesn't.
So based on Grenfell Tower then that means ignoring stronger health and safety and social aspects then as long as it favours lower business costs? We had the opportunity to make fire regulations tougher - we did not. What does that imply about which legislation we are likely to favour in the future?
So vote for a party that favours tougher regulations.
I did...I definitely didn't vote for a party that voted 312 against and 0 for ensuring all rented properties were made up to liveable standards... but as it stands we've got a system where you can get 43% of the vote and end up with about 50% of the seats.
I also voted to stay in the EU as it generally has better social and environmental standards etc. However I'm noting that this is EU red tape. You cannot both complain about lax standards in the UK that resulted in Grenfell and then complain about 'red tape' from the EU because none of us know which part saves lives and in this case it almost certainly would have done.
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
From the looks of it, it seems the company running it was cutting corners and it turned out disastrously wrong.
Also, that landlords thing only applys to private housing, it wouldn't have applied to Grenfell in the first place, and there was criticism at the time for the increase on rent it would cause.
DS:90-S+G+++M++B-IPw40k03+D+A++/fWD-R++T(T)DM+ Warmachine MKIII record 39W/0D/6L
So wait we are leaving the EU and now want to copy their legislation? Wouldn't it just be easier to stay in the EU?
We should copy their legislation when it suits us, and ignore it when it doesn't.
So based on Grenfell Tower then that means ignoring stronger health and safety and social aspects then as long as it favours lower business costs? We had the opportunity to make fire regulations tougher - we did not. What does that imply about which legislation we are likely to favour in the future?
So vote for a party that favours tougher regulations.
I did...I definitely didn't vote for a party that voted 312 against and 0 for ensuring all rented properties were made up to liveable standards...
Neither did I.
but as it stands we've got a system where you can get 43% of the vote and end up with about 50% of the seats.
You're quibbling over a 7% disparity? That sounds pretty damn good for FPTP. We've certainly had worse disparities in past elections.
I also voted to stay in the EU as it generally has better social and environmental standards etc. However I'm noting that this is EU red tape. You cannot both complain about lax standards in the UK that resulted in Grenfell and then complain about 'red tape' from the EU because none of us know which part saves lives and in this case it almost certainly would have done.
I can and I will.
My Issue with EU Red Tape is precisely that: its EU Red Tape, and not British Red Tape. As an independent nation, our democratic influence over British Law will be much stronger, we'll be better able to change our laws by voting in a new government that pledges to change our laws.
Whereas, as one of 28 EU Member States...we are one member among 28 Member States. When we are outvoted, we get laws imposed upon us that we don't want. When we vote in a new government, their hands are tied by the treaties and EU Directives that we were obligated to enshrine into British law. Even if a new Government wished to overturn some EU mandated law, it can't without violating the various treaties and agreements relating to that law.
My issue is not necessarily with the laws themselves (some I like, some I dislike) but with who makes them. I want British law to be made by a British government elected by British voters.
I've been saying this since before the Referendum, has it still not sunk in yet?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/20 21:24:18
So wait we are leaving the EU and now want to copy their legislation? Wouldn't it just be easier to stay in the EU?
We should copy their legislation when it suits us, and ignore it when it doesn't.
So based on Grenfell Tower then that means ignoring stronger health and safety and social aspects then as long as it favours lower business costs? We had the opportunity to make fire regulations tougher - we did not. What does that imply about which legislation we are likely to favour in the future?
So vote for a party that favours tougher regulations.
I did...I definitely didn't vote for a party that voted 312 against and 0 for ensuring all rented properties were made up to liveable standards...
Neither did I.
but as it stands we've got a system where you can get 43% of the vote and end up with about 50% of the seats.
You're quibbling over a 7% disparity? That sounds pretty damn good for FPTP. We've certainly had worse disparities in past elections.
I also voted to stay in the EU as it generally has better social and environmental standards etc. However I'm noting that this is EU red tape. You cannot both complain about lax standards in the UK that resulted in Grenfell and then complain about 'red tape' from the EU because none of us know which part saves lives and in this case it almost certainly would have done.
I can and I will.
My Issue with EU Red Tape is precisely that: its EU Red Tape, and not British Red Tape. As an independent nation, our democratic influence over British Law will be much stronger, we'll be better able to change our laws by voting in a new government that pledges to change our laws.
Whereas, as one of 28 EU Member States...we are one member among 28 Member States. When we are outvoted, we get laws imposed upon us that we don't want. When we vote in a new government, their hands are tied by the treaties and EU Directives that we were obligated to enshrine into British law. Even if a new Government wished to overturn some EU mandated law, it can't without violating the various treaties and agreements relating to that law.
My issue is not necessarily with the laws themselves (some I like, some I dislike) but with who makes them. I want British law to be made by a British government elected by British voters.
I've been saying this since before the Referendum, has it still not sunk in yet?
....
My post.
Its easier to hold Westminster accountable than Strasbourg or Brussels tis is true.
Our laws we pass may not be perfect, wrong or hate them but they where made, and chosen, and voted for in our Parliament.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/20 21:34:27
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
You're quibbling over a 7% disparity? That sounds pretty damn good for FPTP. We've certainly had worse disparities in past elections.
Look at it in another way, this is 46 extra seats that Tories got that they shouldn't have. Yes it has been worse, but 7% of 650 seats is still a large number.
My Issue with EU Red Tape is precisely that: its EU Red Tape, and not British Red Tape. As an independent nation, our democratic influence over British Law will be much stronger, we'll be better able to change our laws by voting in a new government that pledges to change our laws.
Yeah how's that going for you? One of the largest turnouts since 1997. Party in power has the minority of the votes compared to the opposition. The same party that wants to change boundaries so it makes it even easier for them to win. I think i'd prefer 28 nations making the decision not the Rupert Murdoch....
Whereas, as one of 28 EU Member States...we are one member among 28 Member States. When we are outvoted, we get laws imposed upon us that we don't want. When we vote in a new government, their hands are tied by the treaties and EU Directives that we were obligated to enshrine into British law. Even if a new Government wished to overturn some EU mandated law, it can't without violating the various treaties and agreements relating to that law.
Yes and? That makes everyone's rules the same. It means the UK couldn't relax it's waste laws so it could become the landfill site of Europe. Any relationship requires compromise, whether that is with the partner or with the EU. However it makes all parties stronger in the end. You are claiming that where we have control the UK will be stronger, yet in the last week we have seen exactly how well our 'stronger British Law' is when it gets to decide what's best for Britain. I'm sure the victims of Grenfell were really pleased that the EU red tape didn't apply in this area.
My issue is not necessarily with the laws themselves (some I like, some I dislike) but with who makes them. I want British law to be made by a British government elected by British voters.
They are. Go and read the governments white paper on the EU that they released after the vote. It specifically states the laws are made by the UK parliament and that it was a 'perception' that the EU dictated things on the UK.
£5000 offered to Grenfell victims. Cost of a table at the Savoy to butter up the Tories, £5000
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/20 21:45:01
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
In other words, they think they have her over a barrel and are pressing her for more than she's comfortably prepared to give.
They'd better be careful, they might find she decides to form a minority government instead. She's not so far short of a majority that she can't get decent uncontroversial legislation through and do a John Major. In some ways, I think that might actually be for the best.
How much votes she can expect to get from opposition? Getting any major law through is going to be pretty tough unless UK parliament votes are notably different from Finland's one where if you need even 10 votes to gain from opposition you are pretty much "might just as well play lottery" situation in anything even resembling big law.
From the looks of it, it seems the company running it was cutting corners and it turned out disastrously wrong.
So were the inspectors lax then if they let company ignore standards and get away from it? Or doesn't UK check whether buildings meet standards after completion? At which point why have standards either...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/21 05:33:44
From the looks of it, it seems the company running it was cutting corners and it turned out disastrously wrong.
So were the inspectors lax then if they let company ignore standards and get away from it? Or doesn't UK check whether buildings meet standards after completion? At which point why have standards either...
There's no evidence either way to suggest standards were below minimum levels (that will come later and as part of the police investigation). It is more likely that things are getting confused between meeting the minimum standards and providing something that was more expensive but safer. For example the cladding being looked into comes in two standard forms. Both a plastic variant and a fire resistant variant. It appears that both are legal to use in the UK (not those that follow EU or US standards though as the plastic variant wouldn't be). You wouldn't be doing anything illegal by using the plastic comb cladding in the UK. As such when the building was signed off under the building regulations the Council inspectors would have no choice to sign it off (or risk being sued) even if they had grave concerns.
Can't even get 10 DUP MPs on side to prop up her minority government.
How screwed are we in Brexit talks?
I think we can see how well things are going to go from Day 1. David Davis spent the whole spring telling everyone he would make it difficult for the EU if they insisted on talking about leaving/rights/money and not trade at the same time. At the end of Day 1 they basically agreed to everything.
You could probably sum up the UK Wrexit negotiation team turning up a bit like this..
and leaving at the end of the day a lot like this
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/21 07:43:24
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
Brexit is not the problem. Brexit has never been the problem. The problem is a political class that is incompetent, and morally and intellectually bankrupt. They believe in power for its own sake, and once they are out of their comfort zone i.e Brexit, they are utterly clueless in the vision and direction of this nation.
It's no surprise really. Since the Berlin wall came down, the Western political class, the liberal consensus, has been the dominant force in Western politics.
I don't rate Corbyn, but one of the reasons why he scares the gak out of the political class is because he believes in something. Ideology.
The British conservative party is not conservative, stopped being conservative a long time ago, and no longer believes in it. it's little wonder they are floundering. They have no roots or foundations to rely on. power for it's own sake is their mantra.
A confident party, ideologically secure, and knowing what it wanted and who they were, would breeze through the Brexit negotiations, and have a plan, a vision, for Britain's future.
Instead, for 20 years, we've had Blairism in red, blue, and yellow form, where everybody believed in and voted for the same stuff. Support for the European Union was at the core of Blairism. It never occurred to these people to even contemplate a future outside the EU.
That is one of the major reasons why we are in the trouble we are in today.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Or Brexit is such an absolute nightmare that even competent politicians would falter and fail. You're underestimating the difficulties involved.
You may think it odd for a Scottish nationalist to say this, but as far as I'm concerned, Great Britain is the greatest nation the world has ever seen, or is ever likely to see. The legacy and achievements of this small island are second to nobody, and I mean nobody. Even the USA, that mighty and great nation, was built on the foundations of Britain. It's language is Britain's. It's constitution is the English bill of rights 1688, and it's love of liberty can be traced all the way back to Magna Carta. For better or for worse, the British empire made the modern world what it is.
Even putting that aside, Britain's legacy in the arts, the sciences, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, changed the path of humanity for evermore.
We fought the best, we've beaten the best, we've been the best, to quote Apollo Creed
That is who we are, that is what we have done. That is our roots and the foundation we were built on. To cut to the point, we no longer seem to believe in ourselves, or what we're capable of.
Leaving the EU won't be easy, but we as a nation have overcome bigger challenges long before the EU rolled into town.
I am confident that the people of this island, as they have done so many times before, will overcome this obstacle.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Don't take this the wrong way, but those obstacles you overcame in the past was to a great degree overcome at the expense of others. The scientific and technological breakthroughs were fuelled by the exploitation of colonies and through the bullying of other nations. I'm not trying to shame the United Kingdom (we tried the same thing, as did pretty much everyone else); the point is that you no longer have the clout to dominate the rest of the world like you used to. To a lot of us non-British, calling for a return to "the good old days" or trying to invoke past British achievements just comes across as a call to exploit the hell out of everyone else again. In such a light, it's hard to see how the UK is willing to negotiate in good faith.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
I don't think anyone doubts that the UK will eventually overcome Brexit, Brexit isn't going to cause their fair isles to sink into the seas, but rather, view it as inflicting a lot of otherwise unnecessary overcoming just for its own sake
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
