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 jhe90 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Forget ideology, it's crime we should be worried about.

As I've posted before, rural Scotland, and rural Britain in general, seems to be suffering from a crime wave.

we're an easy target up here.

I say this with the utmost reluctance, but the way things are going, we may need to give sub-postmasters and corner shop owners the legal authority to keep a shotgun under the counter...

Slow police reactions. They don,t have the numbers to cover everywhere.

Right, which is where the right to bear arms and defend yourself can be an advantage.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Forget ideology, it's crime we should be worried about.

As I've posted before, rural Scotland, and rural Britain in general, seems to be suffering from a crime wave.

we're an easy target up here.

I say this with the utmost reluctance, but the way things are going, we may need to give sub-postmasters and corner shop owners the legal authority to keep a shotgun under the counter...

Slow police reactions. They don,t have the numbers to cover everywhere.

Right, which is where the right to bear arms and defend yourself can be an advantage.

OT: Except that, conversely, it's not exactly a good idea to have a right to bear arms in the UK in densely packed urban areas. Most people in this country are dangerous with a ballot paper, much less a firearm.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Forget ideology, it's crime we should be worried about.

As I've posted before, rural Scotland, and rural Britain in general, seems to be suffering from a crime wave.

we're an easy target up here.

I say this with the utmost reluctance, but the way things are going, we may need to give sub-postmasters and corner shop owners the legal authority to keep a shotgun under the counter...

Slow police reactions. They don,t have the numbers to cover everywhere.

Right, which is where the right to bear arms and defend yourself can be an advantage.

The problem with this is that while a vast majority of people think that they can handle firearms, only a tiny-weeny minority of people can actually handle firearms properly while under pressure.

Besides, it's very naive to think that a armed populace means less crime.

Doubt me? Just look at the US.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Forget ideology, it's crime we should be worried about.

As I've posted before, rural Scotland, and rural Britain in general, seems to be suffering from a crime wave.

...

Source?

 MinscS2 wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Forget ideology, it's crime we should be worried about.

As I've posted before, rural Scotland, and rural Britain in general, seems to be suffering from a crime wave.

we're an easy target up here.

I say this with the utmost reluctance, but the way things are going, we may need to give sub-postmasters and corner shop owners the legal authority to keep a shotgun under the counter...

Slow police reactions. They don,t have the numbers to cover everywhere.

Right, which is where the right to bear arms and defend yourself can be an advantage.

The problem with this is that while a vast majority of people think that they can handle firearms, only a tiny-weeny minority of people can actually handle firearms properly while under pressure.

Besides, it's very naive to think that a armed populace means less crime.

Doubt me? Just look at the US.

Who said anything about it reducing crime? We're talking about people being able to defend themselves against crime.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Forget ideology, it's crime we should be worried about.

As I've posted before, rural Scotland, and rural Britain in general, seems to be suffering from a crime wave.

we're an easy target up here.

I say this with the utmost reluctance, but the way things are going, we may need to give sub-postmasters and corner shop owners the legal authority to keep a shotgun under the counter...

Slow police reactions. They don,t have the numbers to cover everywhere.

Right, which is where the right to bear arms and defend yourself can be an advantage.

The problem with this is that while a vast majority of people think that they can handle firearms, only a tiny-weeny minority of people can actually handle firearms properly while under pressure.

Besides, it's very naive to think that a armed populace means less crime.

Doubt me? Just look at the US.

Who said anything about it reducing crime? We're talking about people being able to defend themselves against crime.

Because that has worked out so well over here.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Forget ideology, it's crime we should be worried about.

As I've posted before, rural Scotland, and rural Britain in general, seems to be suffering from a crime wave.

we're an easy target up here.

I say this with the utmost reluctance, but the way things are going, we may need to give sub-postmasters and corner shop owners the legal authority to keep a shotgun under the counter...

Slow police reactions. They don,t have the numbers to cover everywhere.

Right, which is where the right to bear arms and defend yourself can be an advantage.

You know practically everyone in the countryside already does, right?



I remember when a farmer's daughter tried to hit on me by asking me if I wanted to come and test her shotgun.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Forget ideology, it's crime we should be worried about.

As I've posted before, rural Scotland, and rural Britain in general, seems to be suffering from a crime wave.

...

Source?

I'm on the move with a mobile, so posting links is a bit dodgy, but rest assured when I'm back in front of the PC, I'll post some links.

We've had Co-op stores being robbed, post offices raided, and even Gleneagles was raided the other week.

If a world famous hotel can't defend itself, then what hope have the rest of us got?

Gangs are coming up south from England. Last year, a London based gang, robbing us left, right , and centre, were eventually caught and sent down for a 30 year stretch. IMO, that's only the tip of the iceberg.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Forget ideology, it's crime we should be worried about.

As I've posted before, rural Scotland, and rural Britain in general, seems to be suffering from a crime wave.

we're an easy target up here.

I say this with the utmost reluctance, but the way things are going, we may need to give sub-postmasters and corner shop owners the legal authority to keep a shotgun under the counter...

Slow police reactions. They don,t have the numbers to cover everywhere.

Right, which is where the right to bear arms and defend yourself can be an advantage.

I wish I had a £1 for every time I've said this, but the nation really is going to the dogs. Even if we do catch the fethers, the prison system is going down like the Titanic!

There was a newspaper report the other day, can't remember which, which reported a haul of thousands of mobile phones and millions worth of illegal drugs being recovered from our prisons, and they think that's only the tip of the problem.

Another glorious failure from the law and order party in government.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jhe90 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Forget ideology, it's crime we should be worried about.

As I've posted before, rural Scotland, and rural Britain in general, seems to be suffering from a crime wave.

we're an easy target up here.

I say this with the utmost reluctance, but the way things are going, we may need to give sub-postmasters and corner shop owners the legal authority to keep a shotgun under the counter...

Slow police reactions. They don,t have the numbers to cover everywhere.

By all accounts they don't have the numbers to cover anywhere! 20,000 police officers axed in England and Wales since 2010. Damn those Tories!

Up here in Scotland, the police and the courts are devolved to Edinburgh, and things are better run than England and Wales, by all accounts, but when the bar is set that low, that's not exactly aiming high.

While I disagree with your conclusions, I don't disagree and an not surprised at an uptick in countryside violence happening at some point.

It is the nature of every organisation to want more. Public or otherwise. Look at the classic story of charities ending up with many layers of management earning 6 figure salaries. So I've always looked with a cynical eye on "public body X doesn't have enough resources to do Y."

In saying that, there's many aspects to think about. For I've thing, the isn't that many people, nevermind police in relatively large areas of the country.

But the other reason why I think country side violence is inevitable. You drive around the countryside outside of Glasgow, what do you see? Completely tasteless new build mansions, gaudy swimming pools, driveways filled with Lamborghini's and so on. I don't need to be a detective to know that isn't old money. Nor is it some start overnight millionaire wunderkinds new home.

There's a pretty dammed obvious source for that sort of money. And the old saying "you don't gak where you eat" explains why the homes aren't found close to Glasgow itself. Eventually violence will find their ways to these areas, whether it's rivals or just the scions learning the tools of the trade locally, these things will happen.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Forget ideology, it's crime we should be worried about.

As I've posted before, rural Scotland, and rural Britain in general, seems to be suffering from a crime wave.

we're an easy target up here.

I say this with the utmost reluctance, but the way things are going, we may need to give sub-postmasters and corner shop owners the legal authority to keep a shotgun under the counter...

Citations, please? Not something I've come across either in the news or anecdotally.

Theresa May seems to have completely forgotten how Parliament is supposed to work....

Surely she can't cling on much longer?

People asked for citations, and I've got them coming out my rear!

If Gleneagles, one of the great Scottish and British institutions ain't safe, what hope for the rest of us?

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/perth-kinross/457495/four-masked-armed-men-carried-gleneagles-hotel-robbery-articleisfree/

Last year we had a spate of ATM robberies in rural Scotland, but fortunately, they were caught, and the beak sent them down for a long time.

https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/2016/02/12/major-hunt-after-cash-machine-stolen-from-co-op/

Farmers under siege: http://www.fwi.co.uk/news/farmers-targeted-as-rural-crime-wave-sweeps-across-scotland.htm

I could go on and on, but we're under siege up here

Given perception is 9/10ths of the law - is it really on the increase, or just being reported more frequently?

I will also say, that Law and Order operates under the cooperation of the 'trinity' or the triangle as I call it.

The three sides of the triangle are:

1. The Police

2. The judiciary

3. The penal system i.e prison.

Now, you can have the best police force in the world, but if the other two sides of the triangle don't function properly, then you're in trouble.

Sadly, in the UK, only the judiciary seems to be functioning as it should, but even then, it's under strain from courthouses being shut down, legal aid being cut, and senior judges and Sheriffs taking retirement and a lack of suitable replacements.

The other two branches of the triangle are going down hill. Police numbers are being slashed, criminals roam the streets with impunity, and even when they do get caught, our prisons seem to be morphing into holiday camps, a free for all of drugs, booze, and even more crime

Fixing one of those areas would be a hard task, but two? This incompetent government, the so called party of law and order is not up to it.

Sadly, and with great reluctance in saying this, if things continue the way they are, then law abiding citizens may have to be armed for the good of British society.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Given perception is 9/10ths of the law - is it really on the increase, or just being reported more frequently?

In my opinion. a lot of crime reporting is being swept under the carpet.

We know the government counts zero hour contract people as being 'employed' so why wouldn't the police 'massage' what constitutes a crime?

It's been done before in Britain.

Oh there's definite shifts in how crime is recorded.

We saw a jump in Gun crime a while back, because Gun Crime was redefined to include threats to shoot someone, and even the old 'fingers in the pocket, pretend it's a gun' ruse.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
People asked for citations, and I've got them coming out my rear!

If Gleneagles, one of the great Scottish and British institutions ain't safe, what hope for the rest of us?

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/perth-kinross/457495/four-masked-armed-men-carried-gleneagles-hotel-robbery-articleisfree/

Last year we had a spate of ATM robberies in rural Scotland, but fortunately, they were caught, and the beak sent them down for a long time.

https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/2016/02/12/major-hunt-after-cash-machine-stolen-from-co-op/

Farmers under siege: http://www.fwi.co.uk/news/farmers-targeted-as-rural-crime-wave-sweeps-across-scotland.htm

I could go on and on, but we're under siege up here

The plural of anecdotes is not data. Do you have any ACTUAL sources?

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/recorded-crime-in-scotland-2015-16


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A relatively small up-tick in crime in a rural area certainly can seem to locals like a "crime wave" even though it's minor compared to the whole of the country.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
People asked for citations, and I've got them coming out my rear!

If Gleneagles, one of the great Scottish and British institutions ain't safe, what hope for the rest of us?

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/perth-kinross/457495/four-masked-armed-men-carried-gleneagles-hotel-robbery-articleisfree/

Last year we had a spate of ATM robberies in rural Scotland, but fortunately, they were caught, and the beak sent them down for a long time.

https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/2016/02/12/major-hunt-after-cash-machine-stolen-from-co-op/

Farmers under siege: http://www.fwi.co.uk/news/farmers-targeted-as-rural-crime-wave-sweeps-across-scotland.htm

I could go on and on, but we're under siege up here

The plural of anecdotes is not data. Do you have any ACTUAL sources?

Anecdotal?

Those criminals were caught, arrested , sentenced in a court of law, and are now languishing in jail. There's nothing anecdotal about hard facts!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/recorded-crime-in-scotland-2015-16


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A relatively small up-tick in crime in a rural area certainly can seem to locals like a "crime wave" even though it's minor compared to the whole of the country.

Perception is always important in the fight against crime, which is why the bobby on the beat is a popular option for a lot of the British public.

We're talking about three different things here. One is the perception of crime, the other is the reporting of crime locally, and the third is the national statistics on crime.

The latter figures (compiled outside Scotland by analysis of three different sets of data) give the most accurate picture of fluctuations in different types of crimes.

Local crime reporting, while factual in itself, doesn't give the kind of high quality analysis you get from the Office of National Statistics.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
People asked for citations, and I've got them coming out my rear!

If Gleneagles, one of the great Scottish and British institutions ain't safe, what hope for the rest of us?

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/perth-kinross/457495/four-masked-armed-men-carried-gleneagles-hotel-robbery-articleisfree/

Last year we had a spate of ATM robberies in rural Scotland, but fortunately, they were caught, and the beak sent them down for a long time.

https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/2016/02/12/major-hunt-after-cash-machine-stolen-from-co-op/

Farmers under siege: http://www.fwi.co.uk/news/farmers-targeted-as-rural-crime-wave-sweeps-across-scotland.htm

I could go on and on, but we're under siege up here

The plural of anecdotes is not data. Do you have any ACTUAL sources?

Anecdotal?

Those criminals were caught, arrested , sentenced in a court of law, and are now languishing in jail. There's nothing anecdotal about hard facts!

That's not how statistics work. You've picked three cases in isolation; as an indicator of whether crime has increased or not they're essentially worthless. We have no data to compare to, and we've got way too few cases to draw any reliable conclusions from them. Hence, the plural of anecdotes is not data.

It makes me quite cross to have to face people who insist that the Tories are the fiscally responsible party.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-economy-idUKKBN19U11N

The country has never faced a more damaging situation than the one they have placed us in. The defecit and government debt is going to be the least if their worries if they keep this up.

If it wasn't so worrying, it'd be fething hilarious.

Still, apparently, Jacob Rees-Mogg is being promoted in some quarters as the next leader of the Conservatives,

http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/jacob-rees-mogg-serious-contention-become-next-leader-conservative-party/07/07/

We've almost gone full stereotype, with Corbyn leading Labour, Cable for the Lib-Dems, wee Jimmy krankie for the SNP and Lord Snooty for the Tories.

We should have Vince Cable for PM. He is already a knight, so it will save Her Maj time when he retires.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
We're talking about three different things here. One is the perception of crime, the other is the reporting of crime locally, and the third is the national statistics on crime.

The latter figures (compiled outside Scotland by analysis of three different sets of data) give the most accurate picture of fluctuations in different types of crimes.

Local crime reporting, while factual in itself, doesn't give the kind of high quality analysis you get from the Office of National Statistics.

No offence intended Kilkrazy, but when I'm in my local area, and I see post offices getting turned over, and corner shop owners fighting off armed robbers, I don't have the luxury of thinking that things aren't so bad just because some egghead in the national statistics office, sitting in his ivory tower, thinks the overall crime trend is down on his charts and graphs!

We're under siege up here, and people are wondering why they bother paying their taxes!

Hah, ivory tower.

Try musty basement filled with mold, rotten timbers and probably some left over asbestos that some PFI company hasn't gotten round to dealing with yet.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
We're talking about three different things here. One is the perception of crime, the other is the reporting of crime locally, and the third is the national statistics on crime.

The latter figures (compiled outside Scotland by analysis of three different sets of data) give the most accurate picture of fluctuations in different types of crimes.

Local crime reporting, while factual in itself, doesn't give the kind of high quality analysis you get from the Office of National Statistics.

No offence intended Kilkrazy, but when I'm in my local area, and I see post offices getting turned over, and corner shop owners fighting off armed robbers, I don't have the luxury of thinking that things aren't so bad just because some egghead in the national statistics office, sitting in his ivory tower, thinks the overall crime trend is down on his charts and graphs!

The problem is that statistically speaking there will always be areas of higher crime than average and always areas much lower than average simply because there will always be a statistical variation across the country. It is likely locally that there may be more crimes going on, but caution needs to be applied when considering the country overall as this area of high crime will be offset by an area of low crime. This is why local anecodotal evidence is not a good indicator of what crime overall is like in the country. That doesn't help you locally but it can't be used as an example of what the country as whole is like. You will get the same approximate distruibution regardless of what the average crime rate was, there wil always be areas higher (and a few much higher) as well as lower.

As for arming people, that is simply a crazy idea. As it stands murder is rare because shooting and killing someone is likely to lead to a life sentence, whereas a plain robbery will risk is much less for the same reward. If you arm the populace, all of a sudden that robbery becomes more risky. Is the shop keeper reaching for money in the till, or the shotgun. This leads to a risk that if the thief gets it wrong they get shot. Hence the criminal is likely to shoot first just in case. This then becomes an arms race as each side protects themselves from the potential consequences. Then the police have to become fully armed making them even more of a target and it wouldn't be long until someone shoots someone over a relatively minor infraction or fear that they are going to get attached (e.g. road rage).

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
We're talking about three different things here. One is the perception of crime, the other is the reporting of crime locally, and the third is the national statistics on crime.

The latter figures (compiled outside Scotland by analysis of three different sets of data) give the most accurate picture of fluctuations in different types of crimes.

Local crime reporting, while factual in itself, doesn't give the kind of high quality analysis you get from the Office of National Statistics.

No offence intended Kilkrazy, but when I'm in my local area, and I see post offices getting turned over, and corner shop owners fighting off armed robbers, I don't have the luxury of thinking that things aren't so bad just because some egghead in the national statistics office, sitting in his ivory tower, thinks the overall crime trend is down on his charts and graphs!

We're under siege up here, and people are wondering why they bother paying their taxes!

Perhaps it'd be easier to get something done if you stopped claiming "crime is on the rise!" without any proof and started focussing on local crime issues that need to be dealt with instead?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
We're talking about three different things here. One is the perception of crime, the other is the reporting of crime locally, and the third is the national statistics on crime.

The latter figures (compiled outside Scotland by analysis of three different sets of data) give the most accurate picture of fluctuations in different types of crimes.

Local crime reporting, while factual in itself, doesn't give the kind of high quality analysis you get from the Office of National Statistics.

No offence intended Kilkrazy, but when I'm in my local area, and I see post offices getting turned over, and corner shop owners fighting off armed robbers, I don't have the luxury of thinking that things aren't so bad just because some egghead in the national statistics office, sitting in his ivory tower, thinks the overall crime trend is down on his charts and graphs!

We're under siege up here, and people are wondering why they bother paying their taxes!

What's your postcode? You can get crime stats from the Scottish Government. They have time series data.

http://statistics.gov.scot/

TBH I'm a bit suspicious that PO blags rose so sharply after you moved back to your old gaff. A nod's as good as a wink to a blind horse, eh. Say no more.

In smaller communities, you can get sudden crime waves. We had a problem there for a while where my parents live, lots of people's houses getting hit and so on.

In isolated rural areas with elderly populations it feels a lot worse, because you are on your own with regard to responses from the police in most cases - like if you're a widow on your own out there, a criminal breaking in means you are pretty much entirely on your own.

In our case it turned out it was a polish fella and his three sons who were having a good time robbing us blind. Pretty surprising - usually it's local lads.

Crime certainly keeps the current criminal justice system in operation.

Imagine a system which actively worked to reduced re-offending and offered real and actual help to the convicted.

Imagine if victims of crime were also treated fairly and had access to aid and assistance of real value.

Two sides of the same coin. Historically used for points scoring by politicians and the media alike.

So, Theresa May asking for help from the other parties.
What is going on?

At the moment it seems like the politics rulebook has been binned off completely.
What's next I wonder?