Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
We need them far more than they need us though...

Then why are they so desperate to squeeze a massive divorce payment out of us, and expect us to continue paying alimony for years to come?

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
We need them far more than they need us though...

Then why are they so desperate to squeeze a massive divorce payment out of us, and expect us to continue paying alimony for years to come?

Because they need us and our money...

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
We need them far more than they need us though...

Then why are they so desperate to squeeze a massive divorce payment out of us, and expect us to continue paying alimony for years to come?

Because they need us and our money...

I'd have thought it was because of all the science funding projects and other various that we'd signed up to, but that's far less interesting a headline.

 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
We need them far more than they need us though...

Then why are they so desperate to squeeze a massive divorce payment out of us, and expect us to continue paying alimony for years to come?

Because they need us and our money...

I'd have thought it was because of all the science funding projects and other various that we'd signed up to, but that's far less interesting a headline.

All of which will suffer significant funding shortfalls if we withdraw.

Ergo...they need our money.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
We need them far more than they need us though...

Then why are they so desperate to squeeze a massive divorce payment out of us, and expect us to continue paying alimony for years to come?

Because they need us and our money...

I'd have thought it was because of all the science funding projects and other various that we'd signed up to, but that's far less interesting a headline.

All of which will suffer significant funding shortfalls if we withdraw.

Ergo...they need our money.

They need you to stand by your word. Evidently that's much more of a stretch than you'd think.

They're expecting us to continue paying without any guarantee that we'll continue to have access to the things we're paying for. They're literally demanding a blank cheque, without any agreement on what we get in return.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
They're expecting us to continue paying without any guarantee that we'll continue to have access to the things we're paying for. They're literally demanding a blank cheque, without any agreement on what we get in return.

Nope. Read again.

The so-called exit bill refers to commitments the UK took while a part of the EU.

Future payments (if any) are conditional on the kind of relationship the UK wants from the EU.

Yup.

This whole shebang has been a debacle from the get-go.

The Leave campaign did nothing but lie, lie and lie again. They blamed all the UK's ills on immigration, and not on successive decades of failed government policy. They told shocking lies about how the EU actually works (fun fact, fact fans - the EU has never been able to impose anything on the UK. Vetoes rule)

Something like this should never have been put to the popular vote. At all.

But here we are, floundering in the poop and the bile of the Daily Heil and Express.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Yup.

This whole shebang has been a debacle from the get-go.

The Leave campaign did nothing but lie, lie and lie again. They blamed all the UK's ills on immigration, and not on successive decades of failed government policy. They told shocking lies about how the EU actually works (fun fact, fact fans - the EU has never been able to impose anything on the UK. Vetoes rule)

Something like this should never have been put to the popular vote. At all.

But here we are, floundering in the poop and the bile of the Daily Heil and Express.

Daily Heil is a bit of a stretch (although it isn't great), and the express really isn't that bad, unless there's a large body of terrible things the Express has said that I'm not aware of.

I'm reminded of that old phrase, if I owe you a hundred I'm in trouble, but if I owe you a million, you're in trouble. They need our money, especially if they want to keep things as they are without either cutting the budget or getting the others to put their hands in their pocket and fork out for the difference.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I'm reminded of that old phrase, if I owe you a hundred I'm in trouble, but if I owe you a million, you're in trouble. They need our money, especially if they want to keep things as they are without either cutting the budget or getting the others to put their hands in their pocket and fork out for the difference.

Of course, if you owe someone money and don't pay up, that's theft.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I'm reminded of that old phrase, if I owe you a hundred I'm in trouble, but if I owe you a million, you're in trouble. They need our money, especially if they want to keep things as they are without either cutting the budget or getting the others to put their hands in their pocket and fork out for the difference.

Of course, if you owe someone money and don't pay up, that's theft.

But it could be said we don't owe anything, they're just demanding it as a divorce payment.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I'm reminded of that old phrase, if I owe you a hundred I'm in trouble, but if I owe you a million, you're in trouble.

To paraphrase that, if you make up 16% of my business but I make 46% of yours who's in trouble?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I'm reminded of that old phrase, if I owe you a hundred I'm in trouble, but if I owe you a million, you're in trouble. They need our money, especially if they want to keep things as they are without either cutting the budget or getting the others to put their hands in their pocket and fork out for the difference.

Of course, if you owe someone money and don't pay up, that's theft.

But it could be said we don't owe anything, they're just demanding it as a divorce payment.

Nope, but don't expect to use the swimming pool unless you do.

Isn't the whole point of Brexit that the UK leaves the swimming pool? We've paid while we've been using it and now we're off.

@ jouso

Is it really 46% or is that the Rotterdam-Antwerp effect?

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ jouso

Is it really 46% or is that the Rotterdam-Antwerp effect?

46% of British exports in goods and services end up in the EU.

Those are hard, easily verifiable facts.

Want to know a lovely little titbit about the Universal Credit debacle?

The helpline for people awaiting payments costs 9p/min from a a landline and 55p/min from a mobile. So out of reach for virtually everyone who has been left for six weeks without any money.

jouso wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ jouso

Is it really 46% or is that the Rotterdam-Antwerp effect?

46% of British exports in goods and services end up in the EU.

Those are hard, easily verifiable facts.

Well we'll just to look elsewhere for export markets then. As difficult as it may be.

 Future War Cultist wrote:

jouso wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ jouso

Is it really 46% or is that the Rotterdam-Antwerp effect?

46% of British exports in goods and services end up in the EU.

Those are hard, easily verifiable facts.

Well we'll just to look elsewhere for export markets then. As difficult as it may be.

That we will. It really runs rather roughshod over any 'they need us more than we need them' malarkey though. I've no doubt we can eventually make up for the lost revenue but we're talking about needing absolutely vast increases in exports elsewhere to buffer even a small percentage of lost revenue to the EU. All this stuff about how fast our exports are increasing to developing markets is absolutely true, but they're doing so because they're starting from a very low baseline compared to extremely high pre-established trade to the EU. We'll have a long, long, long way to go to make up for the likely shortfall.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
Isn't the whole point of Brexit that the UK leaves the swimming pool? We've paid while we've been using it and now we're off.

I don't know. All I hear is "seamless trade" and "market access" and other buzzwords without actual definite meaning in trade terms. Swimming pools may or may not be involved, but so far May won't tell.

Future War Cultist wrote:Well we'll just to look elsewhere for export markets then. As difficult as it may be.

And I wish you best of luck on that.

UK trade deficit at record high after pound slump fails to help export performance
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-trade-deficit-latest-record-high-pound-sterling-slump-exports-goods-imports-brexit-a7992051.html

The UK racked up a record trade in goods deficit in August, confirming the failure for the slump in sterling to help improve the UK's trade balance.

(...)

There had been hopes that the major fall in the pound in the wake of the Brexit vote in 2016 would boost manufacturing exports, helping to bring down the UK's chronic trade in goods deficit.

But, so far, such hopes have been disappointed, as import values have risen in line with exports and UK firms seem not to have seized the opportunity of the more competitive exchange rate to increase their market share abroad.

nfe wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:

jouso wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ jouso

Is it really 46% or is that the Rotterdam-Antwerp effect?

46% of British exports in goods and services end up in the EU.

Those are hard, easily verifiable facts.

Well we'll just to look elsewhere for export markets then. As difficult as it may be.

That we will. It really runs rather roughshod over any 'they need us more than we need them' malarkey though. I've no doubt we can eventually make up for the lost revenue but we're talking about needing absolutely vast increases in exports elsewhere to buffer even a small percentage of lost revenue to the EU. All this stuff about how fast our exports are increasing to developing markets is absolutely true, but they're doing so because they're starting from a very low baseline compared to extremely high pre-established trade to the EU. We'll have a long, long, long way to go to make up for the likely shortfall.

It will take a long time and there will be hardship along the way but I think in the long term it'll be worth it. In the meantime, the EU can go deal with the massive black hole in its finances and the reduced income from trade our leaving will inflict upon them.

@ jouso

If companies won't move to take advantage of the low pound for exports then that's their problem.

 Future War Cultist wrote:

nfe wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:

jouso wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ jouso

Is it really 46% or is that the Rotterdam-Antwerp effect?

46% of British exports in goods and services end up in the EU.

Those are hard, easily verifiable facts.

Well we'll just to look elsewhere for export markets then. As difficult as it may be.

That we will. It really runs rather roughshod over any 'they need us more than we need them' malarkey though. I've no doubt we can eventually make up for the lost revenue but we're talking about needing absolutely vast increases in exports elsewhere to buffer even a small percentage of lost revenue to the EU. All this stuff about how fast our exports are increasing to developing markets is absolutely true, but they're doing so because they're starting from a very low baseline compared to extremely high pre-established trade to the EU. We'll have a long, long, long way to go to make up for the likely shortfall.

It will take a long time and there will be hardship along the way but I think in the long term it'll be worth it. In the meantime, the EU can go deal with the massive black hole in its finances and the reduced income from trade our leaving will inflict upon them.

They don't have a massive black hole. They'll need to make up the shortfall, but in relative terms their hole is really pretty small whilst ours is potentially galactic. The only point I'm making is that saying they need us more than we need them is nonsense. Some of their influential businesses need us a lot and certain EU nations need us more than others, but as blocs, the EU is vastly more fundamental to the UK economy than the UK is to the EU's.

 Future War Cultist wrote:

nfe wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:

jouso wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ jouso

Is it really 46% or is that the Rotterdam-Antwerp effect?

46% of British exports in goods and services end up in the EU.

Those are hard, easily verifiable facts.

Well we'll just to look elsewhere for export markets then. As difficult as it may be.

That we will. It really runs rather roughshod over any 'they need us more than we need them' malarkey though. I've no doubt we can eventually make up for the lost revenue but we're talking about needing absolutely vast increases in exports elsewhere to buffer even a small percentage of lost revenue to the EU. All this stuff about how fast our exports are increasing to developing markets is absolutely true, but they're doing so because they're starting from a very low baseline compared to extremely high pre-established trade to the EU. We'll have a long, long, long way to go to make up for the likely shortfall.

It will take a long time and there will be hardship along the way but I think in the long term it'll be worth it. In the meantime, the EU can go deal with the massive black hole in its finances and the reduced income from trade our leaving will inflict upon them.

Let's put that massive in perspective:

The combined EU budget is 1% of the EU GDP, UK net contribution to the EU is 0,3% of the UK GDP. This means the EU will have to make up a shortfall of 0,06% of their GDP.

 Future War Cultist wrote:


It will take a long time and there will be hardship along the way but I think in the long term it'll be worth it. In the meantime, the EU can go deal with the massive black hole in its finances and the reduced income from trade our leaving will inflict upon them.

@ jouso

If companies won't move to take advantage of the low pound for exports then that's their problem.

So the opposite of what was claimed during the referendum then.

Brexit really is a cult indeed.

facts be damned.


meanwhile.....




That's the tariff for the Universal Credit helpline - 3p to 55p a min

I'm glad I get unlimited minutes. But that is fething disgusting.

Yeah I posted about it above. People who get zero money for six weeks and are faced with a whole range of issues that slow their payments even further have to call a 55p/min phone number (because many wont have landlines) and wait in long queues to find out about what they can do.

Top stuff!

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I'm glad I get unlimited minutes. But that is fething disgusting.

Unlimited minutes often don't include certain numbers. My girlfriend ran into this issue when she had to call Student Finance to deal with issues with her loan. Her contract was capped (couldn't exceed her minutes/data but also meant no calls to numbers not included in her minutes), so she had to use my phone to call them up. Ended up costing me quite a bit that month, a lot of pints were owed

 reds8n wrote:
So the opposite of what was claimed during the referendum then.

Brexit really is a cult indeed.

facts be damned.

And it's suppprters are...what exactly? Come on, spit it out.

Maybe some of the politicians said it would be easy but I was under no such delusion. I knew it would be hard but I'm thinking long term.

Its a sad day when even the Mods start breaking rule #1...

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Its a sad day when even the Mods start breaking rule #1...

Maybe not break, just pushing the line. A lot.