Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Living in a "safe" Labour seat it is frustrating that my vote is wasted no mater who I support. The problem with changing to a system other than FPTP is that it has to be done by the government of the time. But as FPTP got them in power in the first place there unlikely to want to change things.

Fallon's resignation has got me wondering what he actually got up to. Touching a woman's knee fifteen years ago is not what you fall on your sword for

The UK and USA are a bit unusual among modern democratic nations in not having some form of proportional voting system.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The UK and USA are a bit unusual among modern democratic nations in not having some form of proportional voting system.

Canada too.

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Fallon's resignation has got me wondering what he actually got up to. Touching a woman's knee fifteen years ago is not what you fall on your sword for

Rabbit hole probably keeps going down on this one. A bit like the expenses scandal, people aren’t really surprised but it increases their contempt for our leaders. One scandal after the next increases that perception they are like modern day aristocrats - MPs think they are so much more privileged than everyone else that they are entitled to take what they want and treat people how they like with total impunity. You have to wonder how much was known by people working in the media that gives them leverage over the government, when people like Murdoch seem to weasel their way in everywhere and things like the suggestions made by the Leveson inquiry come to nothing.

Herzlos wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

The Tories think they're born to rule. Born to rule? Don't make me laugh.

And yet the only known outcome of Brexit is that the Tories can run with less oversight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So this dirty dossier, that is claimed to be a list of transgressions to be aware of, but is more likely used for blackmail, is public. So that now means that the Tory party method for controlling a huge number of it's MP's is now invalid. That's just going to cause even more fractions.

Good.

Sooner their self interest needs to tear that party apart. They need to reform and get with the 21st Century.

Not all MPs are like that.

The majority are hard-working and want to do the best for their constituents. It's just a character flaw that leads some of them to be gak baggers.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Fallon's resignation has got me wondering what he actually got up to. Touching a woman's knee fifteen years ago is not what you fall on your sword for

Rabbit hole probably keeps going down on this one. A bit like the expenses scandal, people aren’t really surprised but it increases their contempt for our leaders. One scandal after the next increases that perception they are like modern day aristocrats - MPs think they are so much more privileged than everyone else that they are entitled to take what they want and treat people how they like with total impunity. You have to wonder how much was known by people working in the media that gives them leverage over the government, when people like Murdoch seem to weasel their way in everywhere and things like the suggestions made by the Leveson inquiry come to nothing.

He likely was trying to maybe kill the intrest before someone decided to go digging too deep and unearth somthing more intresting.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Not all MPs are like that.

The majority are hard-working and want to do the best for their constituents. It's just a character flaw that leads some of them to be gak baggers.

Of course not all are, but rather a few are, and it creates a very bad impression of our leaders. And frankly there are only 650 if them, you’d think we could find that many competent people in the UK who aren’t perverts and crooks.

Power corrupts...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The sex scandal in Parliament crosses over with the sex scandal in Hollywood, the sex scandal in the Catholic Church, the sex scandal in British popular media of the 1970s (Jimmy Saville, etc.)

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Not all MPs are like that.

The majority are hard-working and want to do the best for their constituents. It's just a character flaw that leads some of them to be gak baggers.

Of course not all are, but rather a few are, and it creates a very bad impression of our leaders. And frankly there are only 650 if them, you’d think we could find that many competent people in the UK who aren’t perverts and crooks.

Compatent...

Well I'd say your going a a little far if you on about UK MP's at times.
They hardly thr titans of old.

Well that's another MP down.

This time Labour MP Kelvin Hopkins.

Note Labour actively suspended someone. Rather than the Tory ‘oh, I’ll just go sit on the back bench’ and nowt more said.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Note Labour actively suspended someone. Rather than the Tory ‘oh, I’ll just go sit on the back bench’ and nowt more said.

They recently had to tackle that issue, and try and deal with some rather uncomfortable moments. They not had it easy either.

Ken livingstone was embarrassing to say the least.

And yes. Depending on action suspensions deserved. Having a affair though is rather not a thing that should have you on any lists. That's a personal problem instead of one worthy of being black listed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41853430

Apparently its due to new allegations about an previous incident of harassment that he was reprimanded over. It will be interesting to see who is the first to claim the moral high ground. No doubt that like the expenses there's more than enough muck to go around the entire commons.

Emily Thornberry has said that Corbyn believes in a two state solution, and that makes him a Zionist.

I really want someone to ask him if he agrees that he's a Zionist next time he's being paid a few grand to do a speech on Iranian state TV.

And while we’re at it, ask him why he would take money from Iran in the first place, a country that hangs people for being gay.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
And while we’re at it, ask him why he would take money from Iran in the first place, a country that hangs people for being gay.

Probably for the same reason Theresa May and the British Government not only happily takes money, but actively courts it, from other middle Eastern countries that execute people for being gay.

Were you trying to play the one-up-on-the-other-side game? or were you holding Corbyn to a higher standard?

But such actions do regularly result in criticism against the British Government that does question the extent of its commitment towards gay rights...

 Compel wrote:
But such actions do regularly result in criticism against the British Government that does question the extent of its commitment towards gay rights...

Well, they are the Government after all...

As unpleasant as Iran is in many of its policies, it is a democracy of sorts. Yet we are pals with its neighbour the absolute monarchy that funds and promotes worldwide a strain of radical Islam instead? Yay for cold war game playing I guess?

GoatboyBeta wrote:
As unpleasant as Iran is in many of its policies, it is a democracy of sorts. Yet we are pals with its neighbour the absolute monarchy that funds and promotes worldwide a strain of radical Islam instead? Yay for cold war game playing I guess?

The argument there is that our soft power results in actual changes. Given the fact that women are now allowed to drive there and the up and coming Prince and most of the officer corps of the Army are now far more westernised, I think it could be reasonably claimed that there is some merit to the approach.

Whether Late Night Corbyn Live contributes to that with Iran is another question altogether, anymore than it counted when Galloway was taking Hussein's money.

The second argument is that Saudi Arabia is sweet talked for the good of the economy, and many thousands of vital jobs in our defence sector. Again, it is questionable whether the enrichment of Corbyn/his constituency Labour Party fulfills the same 'greater good' in that manner.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The UK and USA are a bit unusual among modern democratic nations in not having some form of proportional voting system.

Given that UKIP obtained 4 million votes at their peak, and given your dislike for Farage and UKIP, would you be happy with a PR voting system that sent 20-30 UKIP MPs to The Commons?

For some people, 1 UKIP MP is one to many, never mind 30!

 jhe90 wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Not all MPs are like that.

The majority are hard-working and want to do the best for their constituents. It's just a character flaw that leads some of them to be gak baggers.

Of course not all are, but rather a few are, and it creates a very bad impression of our leaders. And frankly there are only 650 if them, you’d think we could find that many competent people in the UK who aren’t perverts and crooks.

Compatent...

Well I'd say your going a a little far if you on about UK MP's at times.
They hardly thr titans of old.

The titans of old often didn't need to be elected by the populace.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Given that UKIP obtained 4 million votes at their peak, and given your dislike for Farage and UKIP, would you be happy with a PR voting system that sent 20-30 UKIP MPs to The Commons?

For some people, 1 UKIP MP is one to many, never mind 30!

Democracy means respecting those you don't agree with have representation, too.

Fully proportional has its own flaws (dilluting the influence of regions, making sparsely populated areas less relevant...) so most countries go for a hybrid system. Like regional constituencies sending a number of MPs, a minimum vote threshold for representation, etc.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The UK and USA are a bit unusual among modern democratic nations in not having some form of proportional voting system.

Given that UKIP obtained 4 million votes at their peak, and given your dislike for Farage and UKIP, would you be happy with a PR voting system that sent 20-30 UKIP MPs to The Commons?

For some people, 1 UKIP MP is one to many, never mind 30!

Absolutely yes!

I made the point after the 2015 election that it was completely unjust that UKIP had scored I think it was 13% of the vote and didn't get a single seat. If I remember correctly, their only MP was elected on the Conservative ticket and crossed the floor later.

If we are to operate our government as a parliamentary representative democracy, people have to be properly represented. This means it is better having your enemy inside your tent pissing out, rather than outside your tent pissing in.

Looks like there's a chance 16 and 17 year olds may be about to be enfranchised with suffrage.

About time. You may say 'oh noes they no mature nuff'.

But then, currently people with dementia, alzheimers etc can still vote, despite not being in control of their faculties.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Looks like there's a chance 16 and 17 year olds may be about to be enfranchised with suffrage.

About time. You may say 'oh noes they no mature nuff'.

But then, currently people with dementia, alzheimers etc can still vote, despite not being in control of their faculties.

Well most people I know look back on their 16-17 year old self and think "what an immature prat I was."

Which is fine, because you can then vote in the next election to undo any silliness.

But right now, despite being expected to contribute toward the country, they have no say at all.

And get lumped with idiocy like Brexit and ever higher tuition fees by people who'll never personally feel the bite.

Word on the Twitter street is that 12 Tory MPs are likely to be resigning imminently.

Hahaha. I love political carnage. Of any colour.

Ooooooooh.

There goes May's majority if it's true....

General Election for Christmas anyone?