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 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:
In the case of DG.

The right result occurred, but in the wrong way.

I'll say it till I am blue in the face though. If any of you ever have the misfortune to be on the wrong side of a police investigation make sure you are lawyered up.

With this and the sexual harrisment cases - they should really be looking at the basic human resources element of Parliment - after all most of us have to live by rules and regs - it should not be yet another thing that MPs haev exceptions on. people working for and with MPs should havethe smae level of protection as elsewhere.

There should be a robust process overseen by a reputable independent body, agreed and adhered to by all the parties to which MPs belong. (Including independents.) This would cover the activities of MPs and their directly employed staff.

There should also be a proper HR function for parliamentary employees.

Agreed - but will they do it.

 r_squared wrote:
I don't like the new shade of blue they're proposing.

Traitor!

bouncingboredom wrote:

Agreed. I'm expecting any deal to provide less access than the current single market system. I think it's simply not plausible that we will get continued single market access while leaving the EU and meeting some of the governments stated goals such as an end to free movement. The question is what kind of deal we get, which fundamentally is a matter of what we're prepared to trade away for other things in return. It's been revealed today that the EU sees virtually a carbon copy of the Canada-EU agreement as a kind of last ditch, back up option if all elses fails, so at this point a hard brexit is probably off the table unless the government opts to purposely go that route. That at least gives May et al something to start working from.

Still doesn't solve the Irish border or no border problem, though.

We interrupt the standard political bickering to bring you this very important message.

On the night of 20th December 2017, the Coatbridge Community Foodbank was targeted by vandals, causing thousands of pounds worth of damage.





As Granny Weatherwax said, do The Right Thing. This is a link to an official (shared on their own FB feed) Justgiving fundraiser to help them out.

Its Christmas. Get it done, yeah?

He's us gakking gak what a pile of reprobates.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
We interrupt the standard political bickering to bring you this very important message.

On the night of 20th December 2017, the Coatbridge Community Foodbank was targeted by vandals, causing thousands of pounds worth of damage.

The human race, ladies and gentlemen. The paragon of animals.

Donated. Hope they get back on their feet soon.

Still somewhat stunned that people can be that medically appropriate word for a lady garden in Gaelicish.

Chip in if you can folks. As they likely say round Coatbridge way, many a mickle maks a muckle.

Mickle has been sent. Who does that before Christmas, in wintertime, damn...

Would send but have already given to Crisis hot Christmas dinners for the homeless.

There are a lot of them in Oxford.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
1 in 200 of the population of the UK are homeless, an increase of 134% under the Tory Government.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Would send but have already given to Crisis hot Christmas dinners for the homeless.

There are a lot of them in Oxford.


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1 in 200 of the population of the UK are homeless, an increase of 134% under the Tory Government.

Yeah but that doesnt mean there on the streets though http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-homeless-children-london-wandsworth-sleeping-streets-not-rosena-allin-khan-a8120276.html

I see we are one day into Boris's Russa trip and we are not at war yet, so result?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I suppose it's a symbolic, non-victory victory, or something like that...

Well the advantage of the having a separate blue passports is that they will come to represent people losings rights, freedom of movement, worsening living conditions, huge homeless increases, degraded NHS, expensive food, the rich milking the poor, a social care system that collapses and the turds that make up the Tory party (blue brown colour). So at least we'll at least have a visual cue of the stupidity of what we are undertaking and a reference to the people that implemented it.

However given the costs the country has, paying for a different design I'm sure was really worth it. They'll probably double the price to pay for it...


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GoatboyBeta wrote:


I see we are one day into Boris's Russa trip and we are not at war yet, so result?

A public war or words erupted though in the public press conference. A fresh steaming turd has greater diplomatic skills than Boris the Clown.


In other news RAF scrambled intercept greatest threat to the UK in 50 years. Call it an exercise when they realise it's T. May.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42457964

Kilkrazy wrote:UK membership of the ECHR predates its membership of the EU by over 20 years.There is no reason to leave the jurisdiction of the ECHR.

May in particular has a number of objections to it, going back to her time as the home secretary. I think her specific grievances are related to the deportation of people charged with terror related offences and the like.

jouso wrote:Still doesn't solve the Irish border or no border problem, though.

They'll figure out a fudge in the end. Probably create a special cross border pass for people that routinely travel back and forth. People are talking about the border as if this is the first time a border has ever existed between two countries, whereas in reality there's a long history to draw from to find possible solutions.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:We interrupt the standard political bickering to bring you this very important message. On the night of 20th December 2017, the Coatbridge Community Foodbank was targeted by vandals, causing thousands of pounds worth of damage.

. Don't understand some peoples mentality. What a bunch of lowlifes. Any updates on whether they've got leads or caught the ?

Whirlwind wrote:Well the advantage of the having a separate blue passports is that they will come to represent people losings rights, freedom of movement, worsening living conditions, huge homeless increases, degraded NHS, expensive food, the rich milking the poor, a social care system that collapses and the turds that make up the Tory party (blue brown colour). So at least we'll at least have a visual cue of the stupidity of what we are undertaking and a reference to the people that implemented it. However given the costs the country has, paying for a different design I'm sure was really worth it. They'll probably double the price to pay for it...

Guessing you're not a tory voter The passports are updated every few years to integrate the latest security measures. The contract for making them was due anyway, so the story is something of a non-story, except for those that really like blue passports. I actually quite like Burgandy, like when Arsenal did their retro kit that one year.

A public war or words erupted though in the public press conference. A fresh steaming turd has greater diplomatic skills than Boris the Clown.

You'd rather Boris allowed his counterpart to lie and misrepresent the comments of a UK minister for political gain? Boris plays the buffoon well, but I for one am glad he stood up for himself and against that rancid regime.

bouncingboredom wrote:

jouso wrote:Still doesn't solve the Irish border or no border problem, though.

They'll figure out a fudge in the end. Probably create a special cross border pass for people that routinely travel back and forth. People are talking about the border as if this is the first time a border has ever existed between two countries, whereas in reality there's a long history to draw from to find possible solutions.

That's still a border. People would still be checked even if it's just to be waved through.

Not to mention the required infrastructure.

jouso wrote:
That's still a border. People would still be checked even if it's just to be waved through.Not to mention the required infrastructure.

Which isn't anywhere near as onerous as people make out. We do checks at most ports anyway. The Good Friday Agreement is not going to collapse just because people have to show their papers at a crossing point.

bouncingboredom wrote:

jouso wrote:
That's still a border. People would still be checked even if it's just to be waved through.Not to mention the required infrastructure.

Which isn't anywhere near as onerous as people make out. We do checks at most ports anyway. The Good Friday Agreement is not going to collapse just because people have to show their papers at a crossing point.

Trust me, NI is not the same as Dover. That statement suggests that you dont understand the problem, if I'm honest.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

All the trade deals in the world don't matter a damn if your car is floating down the street.

Be Prepared!

bouncingboredom wrote:

jouso wrote:
That's still a border. People would still be checked even if it's just to be waved through.Not to mention the required infrastructure.

Which isn't anywhere near as onerous as people make out. We do checks at most ports anyway. The Good Friday Agreement is not going to collapse just because people have to show their papers at a crossing point.

Yes it is. I know someone else has said it but I think it needs repeating. This statement shows you don’t understand the basis, background or position of the good Friday agreement, or the delicate balance it requires to maintain. The legal and visible link to the rest of Ireland is one of the key parts of peace being maintained. Republicans at the moment can feel like Ireland is near as dam it one country, and Unionists can feel they are still part of the UK. The second you put any check or slow down that is gone, and any stop won’t just be “waving people through”. Putting a checkpoint on the N1 would be like putting one on the M40. Brexit is just about to throw all of this up in the air.

 Steve steveson wrote:

bouncingboredom wrote:

jouso wrote:
That's still a border. People would still be checked even if it's just to be waved through.Not to mention the required infrastructure.

Which isn't anywhere near as onerous as people make out. We do checks at most ports anyway. The Good Friday Agreement is not going to collapse just because people have to show their papers at a crossing point.

Yes it is. I know someone else has said it but I think it needs repeating. This statement shows you don’t understand the basis, background or position of the good Friday agreement, or the delicate balance it requires to maintain. The legal and visible link to the rest of Ireland is one of the key parts of peace being maintained. Republicans at the moment can feel like Ireland is near as dam it one country, and Unionists can feel they are still part of the UK. The second you put any check or slow down that is gone, and any stop won’t just be “waving people through”. Putting a checkpoint on the N1 would be like putting one on the M40. Brexit is just about to throw all of this up in the air.

Agreed. You simply can't have any checks if you want an open border, however soft they may be. You would require some form of ID, questions or whatever to make it a worthwhile endeavour which it would never be. It would also be against the Good Friday Agreement which is free unrestricted movement. The whole issue was managed to be parked but hasn't really resolved anything.

As I understand it, the current Irish border works basically like a Schengen border. There are no checks at all. It's not like Dover of Heathrow, where an EU passport holder has to present their passport and will automatically be allowed in.

Not to mention that even without the border issue, the Tories deal with the DUP already puts the good Friday agreement on shaky ground.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
As I understand it, the current Irish border works basically like a Schengen border. There are no checks at all. It's not like Dover of Heathrow, where an EU passport holder has to present their passport and will automatically be allowed in.

I flew from Dublin to Birmingham the other day and didn’t have to go through passport control. That was both confusing and enjoyable. I had to show my passport going the other way.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
As I understand it, the current Irish border works basically like a Schengen border. There are no checks at all. It's not like Dover of Heathrow, where an EU passport holder has to present their passport and will automatically be allowed in.

You'd be right, it's a completely free border. But the options are limited to basically three;

1) A border between Ireland and the EU, obviously unacceptable for them.
2) A border between the UK and Northern Ireland, which the DUP would find unacceptable.
3) Border between NI and Eire, which is almost certainly the option that will be taken.

I honestly think people are being overly dramatic. The fudge that is the Northern Irish Assembly has managed to keep everyone happy (well, sort of) for a long time now. Given the alternatives, I think everyone will ultimately settle into the routine of having a border again. There's almost certainly going to be a pass system (the same will likely be used in Gibraltar) where regular travellers such as traders and people working across the border get some kind of fast pass that allows them to effectively jump the queue and buzz right through with no/minimal checks, same for ambulances etc. In effect I suspect for some people the border will remain open for all intents and purposes. And even if there are increased checks, nobody wants to go back to the old days. NI has come a long way in a short time and the younger generations in particular coming through seem much more relaxed about the issue.

Going to have to agree with the others here bouncing boredom these statements really make it appear that you don't understand the situation in NI.

The problem with stormont is that both SF and the DUP have both gone to the extremes of their beliefs in the previous election and neither can't really back down. In the past year there has been a doubling in paramilitary shootings with there being a beliefs that sides are starting to recruit again. While many younger people have moved on from sectarianism, the political ideals are still there, and having never seen the conflict truly is IMO something that actually encourages people to be moved to more extremes, all they know of the troubles is the songs of martyrs and men defending their country as well as seeing murals of men who died in it.

The whole issue with the border is just one thing in the currently worsening situation in NI that needs to be considered. I don't personally believe that we will go back to actions like in 1972, however, I do think that there is a very real chance of things getting nasty again over here.

Young people are happy to be in Europe yet we are still leaving. A hoarder of any kind will break the Good Friday agreement and will bring violence. There are still weapons cashes hidden, there are still people who know how to make bombs and there are still people disaffected and angry. You just need to go to an NIFL or GAA and see the people heading to the members suites or go in to one of the rougher pubs it Dublin or Belfast to find that things have not changed all that much for some people. If we have any visible boarder people will see it as a step back towards unionism and people will die. Whatever he outcome the government need to work hard to avoid any visible boarder and honor the deals they made.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


May is still PM - everybody predicted she'd by gone by Xmas.

Brexit negotiations are onto Phase II. Again, doom and disaster were predicted.

The UK was supposed to be in recession by now. We're not.

Things are not as bad as people predicted.

Amen. Sadly I think the whole argument has got that bitter that remainers want the UK to fail after or during independence and leavers want the EU to fail with or without the UK. Rather than us all accepting the result and forming a working relationship as most countries do.
We really need to as a country get our act together and unite to some or any extent.

This bitterness will do more harm than any ending of a trade group.


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Sorry I must add the border between NI and the ROI is far from a free border as farmers and traders well know. Exporting animals into ROI from NI brings with it a mountain of paperwork and government checks from relevant departments on both sides of the border. We also have different VAT rates which causes a paper trail for any business doing cross border trade. It has also provided a huge illegal trade in smuggling worth well into the tens of millions per year. Largely controlled by the still very much active border units of the IRA. Only last year the ex IRA commander in south Armagh was tried in relation to a host of illegalities in and around the border trade issue.
The border only doesn’t exist if your a PAYE civilian who only ventures across the border for holidays. Businesses know it exists and guess what we work round it.

Unite behind what? Behind letting the government and Mrs May do whatever she wants? That’s both silly and undemocratic. There is clearly no vision, and you can’t ask anyone, leave or remain, to support any deal no matter what.

I note that remain supporters have been criticised for not supporting the government yet there has been no criticism of the leave supporters attacking the government for agreeing to pay more than they would like to the EU...

 Knockagh wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


May is still PM - everybody predicted she'd by gone by Xmas.

Brexit negotiations are onto Phase II. Again, doom and disaster were predicted.

The UK was supposed to be in recession by now. We're not.

Things are not as bad as people predicted.

Amen. Sadly I think the whole argument has got that bitter that remainers want the UK to fail after or during independence and leavers want the EU to fail with or without the UK. Rather than us all accepting the result and forming a working relationship as most countries do.
We really need to as a country get our act together and unite to some or any extent.

This bitterness will do more harm than any ending of a trade group.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry I must add the border between NI and the ROI is far from a free border as farmers and traders well know. Exporting animals into ROI from NI brings with it a mountain of paperwork and government checks from relevant departments on both sides of the border. We also have different VAT rates which causes a paper trail for any business doing cross border trade. It has also provided a huge illegal trade in smuggling worth well into the tens of millions per year. Largely controlled by the still very much active border units of the IRA. Only last year the ex IRA commander in south Armagh was tried in relation to a host of illegalities in and around the border trade issue.
The border only doesn’t exist if your a PAYE civilian who only ventures across the border for holidays. Businesses know it exists and guess what we work round it.

The only way for that state of affairs to continue, would be for the UK to agree to maintain border controls that maintain the EU's integrity. That will mean that we would not be able to open our door to another nation to offer them a deal wrt to movement without getting agreement from the EU.
That's probably the only way I can see this moving forward, and I guess that what they meant by alignment. It will also mean that we will have to let the EU take the lead, if they decide to restrict movement from one country, say the USA for example, we'd have to follow suit, or have a hard border with passport controls.

Steve no offence but you need to think a little. Your views on NI are fairly naive. Saying a visible border will cause people to die is silly.
Remember the last border economic checkpoints were imposed by the ROI not NI or the UK and subsequent checkpoints were more interested in stopping Semtex than petrol or people.
The GFA is in no way damaged by Brexit. Point me to the paragraphs you are talking about? What is damaging the GFA is the threats from the government in ROI that they will push for joint authority in NI which there is no provision for in the GFA. It also reneges on their removing articles 2&3 from their constitution meaning they agreed to remove any claim of sovereignty they desired over NI. This was the key to the loyalist ceasefire and any attempt to roll this back by remainers by hyping up sectarian tensions and pushing for Dublin interference in NI affairs to further their own agenda will not be looked kindly on by loyalists.
Setting all that aside the GFA is effectively dead anyway. No one is seeing a way through the mess SF have created. Don’t forget Gerry Adams himself said Brexit was an opportunity for Chaos in NI he wasn’t going to waste. ‘Never waste a crisis’ he said. What we need here is calm space not either side using us or speaking naively about a situation they haven’t given a toss about in decades.

 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:
Going to have to agree with the others here bouncing boredom these statements really make it appear that you don't understand the situation in NI.

I just think people are grossly underestimating how much of the furore is driven by the needs to the opposite parties in NI to talk a tough talk until an agreement can be reached over the future of Stormont. These are people who were once bitter enemies, but now are bitter enemies with a smile and a handshake and a taste of what it likes to live in (relative) peace and with a degree of power. Never underestimate the desire of politicians to do whatever it takes and agree to whatever they have to in order to line their own pockets and secure their own position. Talk is cheap, a politicians pension pot isn't. I'm expecting them to come up with a fudge that keeps everyone sweet and I think that when push comes to shove, all the bluffing hands will fold in the face of either getting on with things or a return to fighting.

bouncingboredom wrote:

 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:
Going to have to agree with the others here bouncing boredom these statements really make it appear that you don't understand the situation in NI.

I just think people are grossly underestimating how much of the furore is driven by the needs to the opposite parties in NI to talk a tough talk until an agreement can be reached over the future of Stormont. These are people who were once bitter enemies, but now are bitter enemies with a smile and a handshake and a taste of what it likes to live in (relative) peace and with a degree of power. Never underestimate the desire of politicians to do whatever it takes and agree to whatever they have to in order to line their own pockets and secure their own position. Talk is cheap, a politicians pension pot isn't. I'm expecting them to come up with a fudge that keeps everyone sweet and I think that when push comes to shove, all the bluffing hands will fold in the face of either getting on with things or a return to fighting.

My point is though that it won't be people returning to fighting it will be a younger group who never truly experienced the troubles and just see it as the glorious revolution or defence of ''Ulster'' probably led by a hardcore group of men who never gave up the fight. In some ways I also feel that even the return to Stormont may not overly affect the outcome of any future violence as the two many parties don't have the same hold over the paramilitaries as they used to, SF only got into power because of their influence of the Provos but it wont be these ones who would be out fighting and so even them getting back into an executive won't hold much sway over the hard lines. In the same way the DUP being paly with the UDA isn't going to stop them killing people if they wanted to.