Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Having spent time in hospitals in the UK an US; the US system seems profit driven and hugely inefficient, with a big hospital visit resulting in financial destruction even when insured. You seem to be paying about 10x more in health insurance, and your co-pays cost more than the treatment itself does elsewhere. It's the Tory wet dream.
Reminds me a book written by american that went to japan and injured himself in the process but avoided going to hospital dreading hospital bill since he didn't have insurance and was thinking how much it would cost in US.
Eventually there was no option but to go and he was preparing to abandon his project there. Getting bill he prepared for worst and...40$.
I remember someone pointing out that the reason that US citizens are terrified of public healthcare is because they think treatments cost what they are billed, and don't think the country can afford to give everyone healthcare at that cost.
What they don't realise (because they don't have any other data point) is that treatments cost a fraction of what they are overcharged and they'll save a fortune on a free-at-use service.
That and it all sounds a bit communist.
Kilkrazy wrote: On Radio 4 the new head bloke was saying they will not interfere with editorial independence.
I don't believe that for a minute, and I'd be surprised if you were buying it.
I've never really rated the British media, especially after Iraq. They're too beholden to the establishment, and obsessed with the Royal Family.
Even the BBC has went tabloid these days.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Well they probably don't have to (interfere with editorial independence), The Express has had no editorial independence since he took over, at least. So no more 4 pages spreads about parties Mrs Desmond hosts, no more missing out all the names of Desmonds friends and business associates next time there is a Panama Papers type event, maybe even no more National Lottery 'stories' making incredibly misleading claims about a non-profit organisation that gives far more per £ to charity than Desmonds own lottery. And it's difficult to imagine the treatment of Express staff could get any worse, those that survive the merger anyway.
Whether it will still be convinced that the woes of the country are all down to migrants and the Foreign Aid fund, time will tell.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/09 14:45:28
Our entire Brexit "strategy" reminds one of those poor sods with massive debts who just stop opening their post and hope things will work out.
Meanwhile UKIP's press office is encouraging journalists to attend next week's emergency gathering on the future of the party with the promise that last time they had such a meeting "there were stage invasions, blows and somebody died".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/09 16:04:55
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Our entire Brexit "strategy" reminds one of those poor sods with massive debts who just stop opening their post and hope things will work out.
Meanwhile UKIP's press office is encouraging journalists to attend next week's emergency gathering on the future of the party with the promise that last time they had such a meeting "there were stage invasions, blows and somebody died".
Well ho ho ho.
The last time there was a UKIP punch-up it was two of their MEPs fighting each other.
Our entire Brexit "strategy" reminds one of those poor sods with massive debts who just stop opening their post and hope things will work out.
Meanwhile UKIP's press office is encouraging journalists to attend next week's emergency gathering on the future of the party with the promise that last time they had such a meeting "there were stage invasions, blows and somebody died".
That can’t be right. Pro leave said that we would have no problem negotiating trade deals in the time. Surely can can’t have been making stuff up again?
insaniak wrote: Sometimes, Exterminatus is the only option.
And sometimes, it's just a case of too much scotch combined with too many buttons...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/09 19:48:18
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Mylan? Teva? Amgen? Bristol-Meyers? Allergan?
Those are european Pharmaceutical companies... are they not 'for-profit'??
Seimens and Teleflx?? These are massive German companies in "healthcare industry"...are they not 'for-profit' too?
Does your German poo-cakes taste better?
Oh wait, you mean the actual care providers? Like hospitals?
No idea what you have... so, can't compare.
Fun fact:
~65% of hospitals in the US are non-profit.
~15% of hospitals are for profit (a dying breed where 5 yrs ago, it was closer to 25%)
~20% of hospitals are government owned (VA being the largest)
~Emergency Room visits cannot be turned away due to inability to pay (see EMTALA Act)
The biggest differences between the US and European models is the 'middle man'... Health Insurance vs. direct taxation.
Do we have fundamental problems in the US? Yes...
Much of it is exacerbated by Federal and State laws.
Sheesh, that doesn't mean we don't have things to offer...
Others have already addressed some bits (and it's a UK politics thread so I'l stop after this post) but it is about the healthcare industry as a whole (not just the middle man you mention) and how it's set up, not about individual suppliers.
Spoiler:
We have for-profit pharmaceutical companies and all that (we got capitalism too!) but the bits that have contact with patients are regulated (they are not allowed to advertise prescription medication or run those freaky fear-mongering ads). That Medical bankruptcies are even a thing one has to consider or that gofundme is somehow seen as a regular last resort is just terrifying.
It doesn't help much that most of the hospitals are not-profit or that the VA owns most of the rest when people still get huge bills in the end (thousands of dollars even with deductibles). That only emergency rooms are not allowed to turn away people and what this implies for other medical institutions is also really odd (to put it mildly).
And Germany also has a mixed health insurance system (public/private) like the USA, the difference is ours are better and heavier regulated so they can't pull the same tricks they are allowed over there. It's not just the government and regulations that lead to bad results (or we would have the same issues as the USA but worse as we regulate them even more). The whole "industry" over there seems to be set up to extract money and helping people is just a tolerated side effect like a dangling carrot to keep them paying. It's set up to make profit now instead of proactively investing money in preventive care to save everyone money in the long term. That's why the US system spends more than most other developed countries (per capita: nearly double as much as Germany, for example) yet doesn't even deliver the best results.
It's not just evil regulations that are keeping the US system from delivering on its potential and when somebody comes along and implies that this type of system seeping into our healthcare could be a good thing it just misses the point of why our systems are still better and more affordable for the average citizen. For now our systems work better (but there's still enough that could and should be improved), yet there are already enough people here (not just you but people who live here) who want to privatise it even more and add bits and pieces with a profit motive and move in the direction of an US style system.
Who in their right mind would want to spend more money and get worse results just to be able to say that they solved the problem by deregulation? We have enough problems with way too many people taking homeopathic bs and that type of "alternative medicine" seriously. There's no need to add another pile of complications next to it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/10 00:08:57
Anne-Marie Trevelyan, a Tory MP and officer in the European Research Group of Brexit-supporting Conservatives, accused Barnier of “playing hardball”.
I mean really, are they really shocked by this? That the EU would act in its own best interests - it's like some of the MPs really think that everyone should bow down before the UK and give it everything it wants at little cost. I'm not entirely sure what fantasy land they think we live on.
Our entire Brexit "strategy" reminds one of those poor sods with massive debts who just stop opening their post and hope things will work out.
Meanwhile UKIP's press office is encouraging journalists to attend next week's emergency gathering on the future of the party with the promise that last time they had such a meeting "there were stage invasions, blows and somebody died".
That can’t be right. Pro leave said that we would have no problem negotiating trade deals in the time. Surely can can’t have been making stuff up again?
There's also the question as whether larger countries will accept this. Trade deals with the EU give those countries access to certain elements of the economy that will be scattered over the EU. In exchange the EU gets access to the things it want's. If a country viewed accessing Germany's industrial manufacturing base as a benefit and in return offered access to their electronics (lets say South Korea for example as they have been quoted as saying the UK can't expect the same arrangements IIRC). If we can't bring Germany industrial manufacturing to the table then they are going to be less inclined just to freely offer South Korean electronics trade deal as they may not value our cheese industry at all.
The UK's global message is awfully confused...
Treat us an independent trading nation...
But give us the same EU deals!
Let us make our own trade agreements
But they will be aligned with the EU
and so on.
Current Government is biggest set of clowns ever being led forward by a group of right wing nutcases and a PM that just wants to ignore it all.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/10 11:22:01
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
When officials at the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy were asked if they had been tasked to conduct work looking at potential economic opportunities from amending employment rights after Brexit law, they declined to comment.
fragment by fragment the facade continues to peel away.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
When officials at the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy were asked if they had been tasked to conduct work looking at potential economic opportunities from amending employment rights after Brexit law, they declined to comment.
fragment by fragment the facade continues to peel away.
I think people misunderstand what the Tories mean by improving workers rights. It means for the wealthy and large corporations they will improve their rights over the workers. I think the Tories prefer to see something along these lines..
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
EU workers already have some of the best rights in the world, as do EU consumers.
Mind you, UK workers have less rights than the rest of the EU, thanks to the UK's opt-out from the Working Time Directive. There might be a clue there.
This is hardly surprising given that Britons don't know what they themselves want from withdrawal. (Except the 48% of the population who are against it, of course.)
Kilkrazy wrote: EU workers already have some of the best rights in the world, as do EU consumers.
Mind you, UK workers have less rights than the rest of the EU, thanks to the UK's opt-out from the Working Time Directive. There might be a clue there.
This is hardly surprising given that Britons don't know what they themselves want from withdrawal. (Except the 48% of the population who are against it, of course.)
I think equally likely headlines would be:-
"EU doesn't understand what Theresa May wants from withdrawal"
"Rest of World doesn't understand what Theresa May wants from withdrawal"
"Theresa May doesn't understand what Theresa May wants from withdrawal"
"God doesn't understand what Theresa May wants from withdrawal (which is very confusing for God as it is on the understanding it should know everything)"
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
All Theresa May wants is to stumble upon some magical solution that sees both wings of the party support her past withdrawal. She doesn't have a idealogical position on Brexit, which is why she has "been very clear" in saying only things that can possibly be construed as supporting any standpoint if you squint hard enough. As soon as she says something that shifts too far in one direction you get the likes of Rees-Mogg or Soubry complaining, or the head of a trade union or business group piping up.
“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.”
So apparently in the next three weeks May is going to provide another major speech about how we are going to leave the EU despite numerous major speeches before.
However this time they are calling it the "Road to Wrexit".
By all accounts May is basing this road to Wrexit plan on the following principle:-
or perhaps this is a better representation of our Wrexit journey along the road.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/11 11:03:48
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
Just think of the insanity of that for a second. It's being trumpeted a major positive that the PM and Foreign Secretary agree on a major part of how the UK will interact with the rest of the world.
Meanwhile, TM is off to Stormont today to meet the Irish PM....
Just think of the insanity of that for a second. It's being trumpeted a major positive that the PM and Foreign Secretary agree on a major part of how the UK will interact with the rest of the world.
Meanwhile, TM is off to Stormont today to meet the Irish PM....
Apparently Boris will produce a solution which achieves a marvellous compromise between the Hard, Soft and Remain viewpoints, thus allaying the worries of the 48%.
I shall be very interested to see what this is.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As far as I can see, there are broadly three possible end states:
1. Remain.
2. Hard Brexit.
3. Some magical "have your cake and eat it" formula which combines some kind of membership of the customs union or free trade area allowing us freedom of capital and services while not having free movement of people or the jurisdiction of the ECJ. Thisis the only way to achieve an economically non-disastrous Brext while respecting the government's "red lines"
I cannot see how this can be achieved without the EU seriously compromising its principles (violating its own red lines.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/12 16:16:11
It's 3. If the EU accept, victory is ours, Boris is PM, trebles and unwanted pregnancies all round. If they don't, then blame the EU, Boris is PM, trebles and etc etc.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/12 18:02:23
Darkjim wrote: It's 3. If the EU accept, victory is ours, Boris is PM, trebles and unwanted pregnancies all round. If they don't, then blame the EU, Boris is PM, trebles and etc etc.
Can you imagine Boris the Clown as PM and Gove, no clue on economics, as the CotE? I think I'd want to go and build a new island in the sea somewhere and laugh at the fallout.
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
We can at least acknowledge that May believes that her actions are in the best interests of the Conservative Party, and occasionally the country, even if she is absolutely terrible at it. Boris is only motivated by what's best for Boris, and he's perfectly willing to chuck anyone under the bus.
Having him as PM n charge of Brexit would be the equivalent of putting marmite on your gak sandwich.
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
