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 Kilkrazy wrote:
Another Brexy Bonus!

TL/DR: Japan says trade deal with EU is a greater priority than deal with UK.

This should really not come as a surprise to anyone really. Any country is always going to prioritise a deal with a union of 450m people compared to a small, and increasingly politically introverted, country of 65m. There is just so much more potential in that business arrangement.

It might have higher priority but negotiations with us will be more straightforward. It’s not a binary thing, you can negotiate several deals at the same time. I’d be surprised if saying the EU has greater priority means they won’t do a deal with us simultaneously given the huge number of Japanese products that come here.

Saying the EU has priority reflects the size of the market and the drawn out complexity of dealing with 27 nations trying to agree with each other, we’ll probably still get a deal earlier unless our politicians make a mess of it - probably the biggest issue.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/australia-to-demand-britain-accepts-hormonetreated-beef-htwf9xxsb

Always profitable doing business with people who obviously need to make a deal rather than those who merely want one.

That's how pawnbrokering works.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Another Brexy Bonus!

TL/DR: Japan says trade deal with EU is a greater priority than deal with UK.

Well dealwith bigger market area is obviously bigger priority. Uk decided to become backwater

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Another Brexy Bonus!

TL/DR: Japan says trade deal with EU is a greater priority than deal with UK.

Japanese companies have used the UK as a gateway the wider EU market. Japan is signaling pretty clearly that the continued presence of those companies depends on access to the common market.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
It might have higher priority but negotiations with us will be more straightforward. It’s not a binary thing, you can negotiate several deals at the same time. I’d be surprised if saying the EU has greater priority means they won’t do a deal with us simultaneously given the huge number of Japanese products that come here.

Saying the EU has priority reflects the size of the market and the drawn out complexity of dealing with 27 nations trying to agree with each other, we’ll probably still get a deal earlier unless our politicians make a mess of it - probably the biggest issue.

That may be, but then it isn't comparing like-for-like. I'm sure both the Japan/EU would also be able to agree a limited agreement (lets say cars for caviar) and in that case the priority is still likely to be with the EU compared to a similar UK deal. A wide ranging free trade is still likely to take significant time and resources for which the resource priority will likely be for the EU.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 reds8n wrote:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/australia-to-demand-britain-accepts-hormonetreated-beef-htwf9xxsb

Always profitable doing business with people who obviously need to make a deal rather than those who merely want one.

That's how pawnbrokering works.

The problem that this trade deal would in itself guarantee a hard border with Ireland/EU as how would the EU otherwise protect from cheaper imports of this 'contaminated' food? It would also be difficult to see how UK beef farmers would compete unless they too were allowed to start the same practices?

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
It might have higher priority but negotiations with us will be more straightforward. It’s not a binary thing, you can negotiate several deals at the same time. I’d be surprised if saying the EU has greater priority means they won’t do a deal with us simultaneously given the huge number of Japanese products that come here.

Saying the EU has priority reflects the size of the market and the drawn out complexity of dealing with 27 nations trying to agree with each other, we’ll probably still get a deal earlier unless our politicians make a mess of it - probably the biggest issue.

In the article the Japanese minister says that Japan wants to complete the deal with the EU first.

He thinks it will be relatively easy to complete a similar deal with the UK after the EU deal is done.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43624231

Corbyn goes to an event run by a Jewish organisation. Gets accused of undermining opposition to anti-semitism. How so? Oh, they’re the wrong sort of Jews, they’re left wing Jews critical of Israel ergo he doesn’t take anti-semitism seriously.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43624231

Corbyn goes to an event run by a Jewish organisation. Gets accused of undermining opposition to anti-semitism. How so? Oh, they’re the wrong sort of Jews, they’re left wing Jews critical of Israel ergo he doesn’t take anti-semitism seriously.

It does demonstrate a weakness of Corbyn. He only hangs out with like minded people. Throughout his career he’s displayed a reluctance (or even unwillingness) to speak to those who don’t share his views. In Northern Ireland for example he was always happy to hang around with the Republicans in the name of ‘peace’ but if I recall correctly he never found the time to talk to the unionist side. In this example, wouldn’t it have been a better idea to speak to a Jewish group who have been challenging him and who back Israel instead of meeting up with his fellow travellers? That way he could at least showed without question that he’s taking this seriously.

It just looks bad that he visibly aligned himself with an anti-Israel Jewish organisation when he could have embraced all Jews, or embraced the ones who criticised him last week, or embraced none of them for the moment and done something else like put the issue in the hands of a working party.

A guest on Radio 4 put it well: with Corbyn there is always a "but."

Corbyn is strongly against anti-semitism, but...

Uh-huh, And if he'd done that, the msm would be having a go at him for flip-flopping and demonstrating poor leadership and a lack of fitness for the role.

This is all a red herring to distract from brexit and Cambridge analytic. And sadly, it's working.

Corbyn has flip-flopped on Brexit too.

There actually is a strong suspicion that he is a poor leader and lacks fitness for the role, due to things like that and this anti-semitism problem.

Let's be clear that there is a degree of anti-semitism in the Labour Party, and of course the Tories and right-wing press want to exploit that to attack Corbyn. That doesn't excuse Corbyn from doing nothing, though. It makes it all the more important for him to set Labour's house in order.

"Seize the nettle firmly and it will become a stick with which to beat your enemies."

 Kilkrazy wrote:
It just looks bad that he visibly aligned himself with an anti-Israel Jewish organisation when he could have embraced all Jews, or embraced the ones who criticised him last week, or embraced none of them for the moment and done something else like put the issue in the hands of a working party.

A guest on Radio 4 put it well: with Corbyn there is always a "but."

Corbyn is strongly against anti-semitism, but...

But he's being consistent since he disagrees with a lot of Israeli policy. This just exposes the well known secret that the accusations of anti-Semitism are anti Israeli state, which is a distinct thing.

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43624231

Corbyn goes to an event run by a Jewish organisation. Gets accused of undermining opposition to anti-semitism. How so? Oh, they’re the wrong sort of Jews, they’re left wing Jews critical of Israel ergo he doesn’t take anti-semitism seriously.

It does demonstrate a weakness of Corbyn. He only hangs out with like minded people. Throughout his career he’s displayed a reluctance (or even unwillingness) to speak to those who don’t share his views. In Northern Ireland for example he was always happy to hang around with the Republicans in the name of ‘peace’ but if I recall correctly he never found the time to talk to the unionist side. In this example, wouldn’t it have been a better idea to speak to a Jewish group who have been challenging him and who back Israel instead of meeting up with his fellow travellers? That way he could at least showed without question that he’s taking this seriously.

Why would he support a pro-Israel group if he himself is not pro-Israel?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Corbyn has flip-flopped on Brexit too.

There actually is a strong suspicion that he is a poor leader and lacks fitness for the role, due to things like that and this anti-semitism problem.

Let's be clear that there is a degree of anti-semitism in the Labour Party, and of course the Tories and right-wing press want to exploit that to attack Corbyn. That doesn't excuse Corbyn from doing nothing, though. It makes it all the more important for him to set Labour's house in order.

"Seize the nettle firmly and it will become a stick with which to beat your enemies."

Those same people are going to have those suspicions no matter what he does, short of becoming a Tory , so why should he bother?

Because that's not the issue. He is a poor leader who seems to ignore anyone who is not 100% aligned with him, a weak politician and, frankly, I agree with the feeling that he is still a student activist and nothing more.

 ulgurstasta wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43624231

Corbyn goes to an event run by a Jewish organisation. Gets accused of undermining opposition to anti-semitism. How so? Oh, they’re the wrong sort of Jews, they’re left wing Jews critical of Israel ergo he doesn’t take anti-semitism seriously.

It does demonstrate a weakness of Corbyn. He only hangs out with like minded people. Throughout his career he’s displayed a reluctance (or even unwillingness) to speak to those who don’t share his views. In Northern Ireland for example he was always happy to hang around with the Republicans in the name of ‘peace’ but if I recall correctly he never found the time to talk to the unionist side. In this example, wouldn’t it have been a better idea to speak to a Jewish group who have been challenging him and who back Israel instead of meeting up with his fellow travellers? That way he could at least showed without question that he’s taking this seriously.

Why would he support a pro-Israel group if he himself is not pro-Israel?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Corbyn has flip-flopped on Brexit too.

There actually is a strong suspicion that he is a poor leader and lacks fitness for the role, due to things like that and this anti-semitism problem.

Let's be clear that there is a degree of anti-semitism in the Labour Party, and of course the Tories and right-wing press want to exploit that to attack Corbyn. That doesn't excuse Corbyn from doing nothing, though. It makes it all the more important for him to set Labour's house in order.

"Seize the nettle firmly and it will become a stick with which to beat your enemies."

Those same people are going to have those suspicions no matter what he does, short of becoming a Tory , so why should he bother?

Because it's like an argument in an online forum. A lot of what people may say here isn't directed at each other, it's directed at "lurkers".

In the same way, if Corbyn would announce a robust process to investigate and deal with anti-semitism in the Labour Party, which was widely supported by Jewish groups, the next the Dail Hate Mail goes "wah wah wah" then Corbyn can poke them in the eye, spin them round and administer a swift kick to their arse with a finely curated list of anti-semitic stuff they have done in the past 10 years.

This would not make the Daily Fail shut up, but it would impress a lot of third party bystanders and allow Corbyn and other Labour shadow ministers to go on the radion and TV and smartly dismss any related questions.

 Steve steveson wrote:
Because that's not the issue. He is a poor leader who seems to ignore anyone who is not 100% aligned with him, a weak politician and, frankly, I agree with the feeling that he is still a student activist and nothing more.

Definitely. I agree with most of his policies as do what appears to be a fairly big grass roots movement, but he doesn't seem to have the presence/confident to play parliamentary politics. He should be publicly destroying May on an almost daily basis (she couldn't make it any easier) and yet he seems content to just do his own thing without capitalizing on anything. I can appreciate he's deliberately not playing these games, but it does make him look fairly soft.

Herzlos wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:
Because that's not the issue. He is a poor leader who seems to ignore anyone who is not 100% aligned with him, a weak politician and, frankly, I agree with the feeling that he is still a student activist and nothing more.

Definitely. I agree with most of his policies as do what appears to be a fairly big grass roots movement, but he doesn't seem to havethe presence/confident to play parliamentary politics. He should be publicly destroying May on an almost daily basis (she couldn't make it any easier) and yet he seems content to just do his own thing without capitalizing on anything. I can appreciate he's deliberately not playing these games, but it does make him look fairly soft.

A cynic might argue that his lack of statesmanship and ability to kill off May has been spun quite beautifully.

He's for the people but really cannot speak up for them, past soapboxing.

 Steve steveson wrote:
Because that's not the issue. He is a poor leader who seems to ignore anyone who is not 100% aligned with him, a weak politician and, frankly, I agree with the feeling that he is still a student activist and nothing more.

Do we know this? I think this may all being spun out of control and we are not looking at it in a balanced way. Has anyone checked what Corbyn's diary has been. He may have visited 10's of other community groups but we are only hearing about the ones the papers think they can poke him with. I'd save criticism until there are more facts. His approach may be to discuss with greater subtlety. Talk quietly with the relevant groups and then come to a view as to how to achieve your stated aims in the longer term with greater effect. It's a much more sensible way of approaching things by gathering evidence first. The disadvantage is that it takes longer.

The we have an issue and must do something NOW! (in some ways fed by the populace to see some action being taken regardless of whether it is sensible or not) approach is partly the problem with politics we have today and why we are in the mess we are because it is consistently reactive looking for the headline rather than long term viability.

It is similar to the climate change 'debate'. Scientists spend years gathering data, analysing the results and then coming to a consensus on a reasonable direction. Yet that isn't a story to the papers. Yet a climate change denier is put on against one and says "but haven't you checked whether it's just *insert ridiculous reason*. The scientist then has to go away and come back 3 years later and conclude as we suspected the answer is no at which point the denier has moved on to another ridiculous point and so on. However due diligence does require that work to be done and validated.

The same potentially goes with Corbyn here, it's just individual points being brought out with no information on the context, once one is put to bed another is pulled out the hat and so on. It's not a story if it reads "Corbyn visits the majority jewish community groups to see how anti-Semitism affects their lives; one of these groups....". We can't complain that we don't like the current politics and then complain when the opposition decides to play a different politics?

I fear here that we are starting to jump on hype train in the media and being less critical of its influence on us.

We need evidence of what Corbyn is doing not just one report of him being at one event. There will always be reports of politicians at individual events but that in itself does not mean people are guilty as charged. Except for Maybot, she doesn't go to events because she has to be plugged into the recharge socket...

Juewdas isn't a "community group". It's the Jewish equivalent of Momentum, in a sense, the anti-Establishment bit of politically organised British Judaism.

(Note here that Momentum are getting disturbed at how non-anti-semitic Corbyn is seeming by his actions.

Corbyn certainly did not visit the various other mainstream Jewish councils for Passover dinner, that is what makes his visit to Jewdas notable.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Juewdas isn't a "community group". It's the Jewish equivalent of Momentum, in a sense, the anti-Establishment bit of politically organised British Judaism.

(Note here that Momentum are getting disturbed at how non-anti-semitic Corbyn is seeming by his actions.

Corbyn certainly did not visit the various other mainstream Jewish councils for Passover dinner, that is what makes his visit to Jewdas notable.

It's a 'group' of people with a specific community, ergo it's a 'community group'. It's not your tea party group granted but it is still a type of community group. Did any invite him though? How do we know this. I have had a quick look and can't find an online diary of all his interactions with society.

The point is that there is jumping to conclusions based on patchy data at best. That being what is being reported by the media. JC goes to dinner with mainstream group 'X' is not news worthy. Hence we are looking at the issue through the lens of the media. If his diary showed that he spent 50% of his meals at one group then that is news worthy. Otherwise we might as well start criticising him for going on holiday to [insert racially intolerant country] and use that as evidence of issues.

To put this into context JC is too left wing for my liking but this whole topic is focussed on the wrong issue. Who has dinner with whom is less of a concern than the actions taken to try and get rid of intolerance in whatever form.

I think there's a new silent majority. They're not racists, they're not anti-semites, they're tired of the Tories, Blairites and Brexit. They're sick of the press, racist arseholes on the Internet, Facebook, the BBC and being lied to.

Their voice will be heard at the next GE, after May gets her voice of no-confidence.

It wasn’t some organised rally, it was a small Passover event taking place in his own constituency to which he was invited. It should go without comment. And criticising Israel is not anti-Semitic, I don’t even agree with Corbyn’s stance on Palestine/Israel but I can see the difference, it’s a lazy ‘debating’ tactic. But this is one of the main points on which this particular group of Jews, representing the wrong sort of Jews apparently, is being used to smear Corbyn as being ambivalent about tackling anti-semitism. Personally I think that, while the media and some politicians are screeching about Corbyn’s anti-semitism on a daily basis, the public aren’t buying this.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/03/jeremy-corbyn-passover-jewdas-good-news

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
It wasn’t some organised rally, it was a small Passover event taking place in his own constituency to which he was invited. It should go without comment. And criticising Israel is not anti-Semitic, I don’t even agree with Corbyn’s stance on Palestine/Israel but I can see the difference, it’s a lazy ‘debating’ tactic. But this is one of the main points on which this particular group of Jews, representing the wrong sort of Jews apparently, is being used to smear Corbyn as being ambivalent about tackling anti-semitism.

I agree. This particular story is a smear job. It's taking the base of a legitimate issue (anti-semitism within Labour) and jumping on a relatively innocuous aspect of Corbyn's routine to try and build a mountain from a molehill. It's simply turned into a political football now.

Which frankly, is quite vexing, because it plays into the arguments of those who want to depict the entire issue as being of a similar vein.

Isn't part of a political party leader's job to avoid being manoeuvred into situations which enable him to be smeared?

To flip the point of view, how did Corby's attendance at Jewdas help mend relations with the overall Jewish community, or help to damp down the anti-semitism rumours around the Labour Party?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Isn't part of a political party leader's job to avoid being manoeuvred into situations which enable him to be smeared?

To flip the point of view, how did Corby's attendance at Jewdas help mend relations with the overall Jewish community, or help to damp down the anti-semitism rumours around the Labour Party?

There is literally nothing he can do that won't be smeared and used in this way. He attended a Jewish religious festival attend by Jews, but because they were the "politically wrong" sort of Jews the accusations and smears continue.
I actually think it was a sound and subtle move. If you read the Guardian link above you'll see that it is possible to be a jew but also be anti-Israel and Corbyn would know that his presence there would send that signal. Besides, they're socialists, Jeremy is a socialist, it's not inconceivable that he'd want to hang out with them in his own time.

Ketara is right, it exposes that this particular anti-semite criticism is politically motivated, and detracts from the whole issue. It also exposes that those that call themselves the "mainstream" don't represent all Jews and that as a people they do not speak with one voice on this issue.

Anyone with eyes can see exactly what is happening, and remember that it happened in the GE. It will likely produce the same result. Even my blue collegues are getting sick of it now. It's turning people off the issue and actually building support for Corbyn. There's been a surge of new labour members since this whole attack has begun. That's what I mean by a silent majority, people not being heard in the press, or on the BBC who can make up their own mind about the stories, and motivations.

 r_squared wrote:
I think there's a new silent majority. They're not racists, they're not anti-semites, they're tired of the Tories, Blairites and Brexit. They're sick of the press, racist arseholes on the Internet, Facebook, the BBC and being lied to.

Their voice will be heard at the next GE, after May gets her voice of no-confidence.

If they are silent majority I doubt they will bother to vote either.

 r_squared wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Isn't part of a political party leader's job to avoid being manoeuvred into situations which enable him to be smeared?

To flip the point of view, how did Corby's attendance at Jewdas help mend relations with the overall Jewish community, or help to damp down the anti-semitism rumours around the Labour Party?

There is literally nothing he can do that won't be smeared and used in this way. He attended a Jewish religious festival attend by Jews, but because they were the "politically wrong" sort of Jews the accusations and smears continue.
I actually think it was a sound and subtle move. If you read the Guardian link above you'll see that it is possible to be a jew but also be anti-Israel and Corbyn would know that his presence there would send that signal. Besides, they're socialists, Jeremy is a socialist, it's not inconceivable that he'd want to hang out with them in his own time.

Ketara is right, it exposes that this particular anti-semite criticism is politically motivated, and detracts from the whole issue. It also exposes that those that call themselves the "mainstream" don't represent all Jews and that as a people they do not speak with one voice on this issue.

Anyone with eyes can see exactly what is happening, and remember that it happened in the GE. It will likely produce the same result. Even my blue collegues are getting sick of it now. It's turning people off the issue and actually building support for Corbyn. There's been a surge of new labour members since this whole attack has begun. That's what I mean by a silent majority, people not being heard in the press, or on the BBC who can make up their own mind about the stories, and motivations.

There's also the shocking double standard being displayed.

Das Daily Heil gets out of it's pram over anti-Semitism. Also printed in Das Daily Heil



Daily Express gets out of it's pram over anti-Semitism?



The Tories are in with those papers up their necks. The Tories have a genuine problem with genuine racism within their ranks. Or maybe BoJo using the term 'picaninny' to refer to black kids is a-ok?

People see through that, and this attempted smear for the desperate act it is. And not enough people are falling for it.

Another Brexy Bonus!

TL/DR: Services supporting some of Britain's most disadvantaged people risk being bankrupted by loss of the European Social Fund, unless ministers take urgent action.

Kilkrazy wrote:Isn't part of a political party leader's job to avoid being manoeuvred into situations which enable him to be smeared?

To flip the point of view, how did Corby's attendance at Jewdas help mend relations with the overall Jewish community, or help to damp down the anti-semitism rumours around the Labour Party?

r_squared wrote: He attended a Jewish religious festival attend by Jews, but because they were the "politically wrong" sort of Jews the accusations and smears continue.

Whilst r_squared and I have tussled over this particular issue, he's on the money with regards to this incident in particular. Corbyn was attending (in his spare time) an event being run by a Jewish organisation. Sure, they might be of a somewhat politically odd sheep, and sure, that might be because they fit in more with his personal ideology than more mainstream ones. It happens. You could say that his decision reflects on his apparent desire to mix only with birds of a similar feather to him, as FWC did above:-

Future War Cultist wrote:It does demonstrate a weakness of Corbyn. He only hangs out with like minded people.

But at the same time, that's not a crime, and it's not anti-semitic. It's just....Corbyn. The eternal protestor. The bloke who preaches that he's open to everyone/thing, but very much isn't. And that's fine, if hypocritical, all the other politicians are the same (well, the ones that have beliefs). It's nothing special, and certainly not something for which he personally deserves to have the words 'Anti-Semite' smeared next to his photograph on the frontpage of lots of newspapers.