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A few months ago, the official government figures showed that crime was up in England and Wales. It was in black and white. We know that police numbers are down.
We know that kids are getting murdered on a daily basis in London
And up here, I'm trying to survive a rural crime wave.
Anybody who's trying to convince me that Britain is safer, will get laughed out of town.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
monarda wrote: I'm going to post some statistics that contradict Do_I_Not_Like_That, which is hardly surprising. Since this is DINLT I'm just going to assume that he'll neither read past the first few sentences nor think in any way about such numerical piffle. But for those who do consider the statistics I'd like to emphasise that these statistics are not drawn from police statistics. They are derived by surveying the public about their own experiences of crime. As such they capture crimes which are not reported to the police or are not recorded for one reason or another. Such figures are also very difficult to massage, an accusation often levelled at statistics derived from police records of crime.
I think the difference here is between mass figures and targetted crime. The figures show that almost certainly crime has gone down as a general trend over the las 20 years (barring the slight upturn recently). There's probably a number of factors to this. In the early 1990s there was a lot of car crime, however modern technology has made that much more difficult to undertake (no hot wiring cars so easily). In addition violent crime has decreased overall. There has been a suggestion that this may be due to the removal of leaded petrol. Lead has bad effects on our brains and can cause more aggressive behaviours. There is some thinkign that I have read that the low continual dose of lead poisoning made us more aggressive and hence violent crime increased as car usage increased. As this was phased out we mellowed out a bit.
On the other hand DINLT is experiencing targeted crime. Where high value, relatively low protected items are targeted. If you are in the vicinity of such targeted campaigns then you perception of crime increases. Therefore it could be argued that a small fraction of the populace see large increases in crime but is only registered as one data point on the plot. Hence overall crime is decreasing but localised crime where there is a vulnerability is not (and can increase).
For cash machine thefts there is an easy solution. Explosive paint modules upon impact ruin the cash. That provides a visible deterrent as the cash is no longer valuable.
For high value agricutural equipment this requires more police resources. I have known similar circumstances where tracked vehicles (known to be stolen) can be watched going to ports and then abroad. Despite the police being informed by the time they actioned it, it was by far too late. This is simply a resource issue. When insurance will pay for a replacement, no one was hurt then desperately needed resources are sent elsewhere. Simple checks at ports would help in such circumstances.
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
Which of course doesn't change the fact that DINLT is ranting about the crime rate again without understanding how statistics work and blaming it on "Ivory Tower intellectuals", as usual.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: If a judge had had the guts to give them 10-20 years, and none of this only serve half your sentence for good behaviour bollocks, then the victim would probably be alive, and the home owner would have been spared from this hell.
The problem is that if there is little difference between a threatening theft and an actual assault then the fear of undertaking the assault becomes lessened. If it is I might get caught and go to jail for 6 months from this theft is moved to 20 years in jail being similar to the assault term then there is much less risk in undertaking the assault (and even murder) because regardless the risk is the same. However if you kill someone that is one less person to identify you.
That's why things are softer for lesser crimes, it is to encourage less violent crime. Higher penalties encourage more aggressive behaviour. People commit thefts because someone has something they want. To break that cycle you need to encourage people to move out of thinking that the only opportunity to get this is via crime to a system where those people can achieve those aims. However you'll never get rid of it completely.
And up here, I'm trying to survive a rural crime wave.
You personally? You make it sound like you're in the middle of a Fallout game....
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/11 13:04:58
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
monarda wrote: I'm going to post some statistics that contradict Do_I_Not_Like_That, which is hardly surprising. Since this is DINLT I'm just going to assume that he'll neither read past the first few sentences nor think in any way about such numerical piffle. But for those who do consider the statistics I'd like to emphasise that these statistics are not drawn from police statistics. They are derived by surveying the public about their own experiences of crime. As such they capture crimes which are not reported to the police or are not recorded for one reason or another. Such figures are also very difficult to massage, an accusation often levelled at statistics derived from police records of crime.
A very good friend of mine, he is an ex policeman, it wasn’t his job to “distort” the crime figures to make them fit with government policy, your statistics are totally unreliable and untrustworthy, even though I agreee with what you are saying, the police are bare faced lying when it comes to their rights own statistics.
Reading to the third sentence is probably expecting a bit too much.
Once again, the statistics I posted are not collected from the police. They are collected by asking 35,000 people (including a minimum of 650 in each police force area) whether they have been a victim of crime (or violent crime) in the past year. For reference this is about 30 times as many people as would be sampled in a normal newspaper poll about voting intentions. You can find more details of the methodology used by the Crime Survey for England and Wales at the ONS.
The impression I’ve had from years of crime stats being reported is that overall crime is lower, but violent crime is creeping up. Which is supported recently, and by the text accompanying he graphs above
Violent crime and robbery is probably the one that affects us most because it’s high profile and life changing for its victims and those around them. That petty offences, presumably like shoplifting and vandalism, are down overall doesn’t make anyone feel much safer while you’re more likely to get robbed at knifepoint.
That said, it’s still localised for the most part, obviously some parts of London are worse than others. I live in Richmond, which is much better than Tottenham, somewhere I’d not feel safe on my own or any time after dark.
Howard A Treesong wrote: The impression I’ve had from years of crime stats being reported is that overall crime is lower, but violent crime is creeping up. Which is supported recently, and by the text accompanying he graphs above
Violent crime and robbery is probably the one that affects us most because it’s high profile and life changing for its victims and those around them. That petty offences, presumably like shoplifting and vandalism, are down overall doesn’t make anyone feel much safer while you’re more likely to get robbed at knifepoint.
That said, it’s still localised for the most part, obviously some parts of London are worse than others. I live in Richmond, which is much better than Tottenham, somewhere I’d not feel safe on my own or any time after dark.
Violent crime has risen in the last year, but prior to that it had been steadily falling since the mid-90s.
These statistics can't show recent changes, and nor would they be able to show surges in particular areas such as London.
It's also worth noting that we know violent knife crime has surged in the past year because it's reflected in police records (which, once again, are not used in the graph above) and in hospital admissions for stab wounds. The same alternative sources of data also show that violent crimes have, until recently, been declining since the mid-90s.
For instance, it's my understanding that just threatening to shoot someone is recorded as a gun crime in the UK.
On that basis call of duty multiplayer must be a hot bed of scum and villainy...
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
Since Thatcher, every PM wants their own ‘Falklands’ moment. Major legitimately had the Gulf, Blair pushed us into Iraq, Cameron bombed Libya and May wants to bomb Syria.
First Blair and now May, FFS all we need now is claims of WMDs.
FFS!!! I'm agreeing with Jeremy C.
What, what exactly will we be able to do that stops Assad and his regime from slaughtering his own population? Which doesn't ultimately involve making Radical Islam stronger?
Why is this some kind of magical red line when Civilians have been killed in numerous cruel ways since the start?
Howard A Treesong wrote: Since Thatcher, every PM wants their own ‘Falklands’ moment. Major legitimately had the Gulf, Blair pushed us into Iraq, Cameron bombed Libya and May wants to bomb Syria.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: England and Wales? No good if you're in the middle of the Scottish Highlands!
On a serious note, it's all about the perception. It's all very well sitting in your Ivory Tower and banging on about stats, bar graphs, and pie charts,
but up here, the thin blue line is nowhere to be seen.
Post Offices have been turned over, ATMs ripped from the walls of corner shops (by gangs coming up from the SE of England) and if farm equipment is not nailed down, it's getting lifted
Fear has gripped the countryside. We're in the middle of a rural crime wave and that's official.
What do I, a hard working tax payer of many years have for protection? A dedicated and efficient police force? A government serious about property and law and order?
No, a sturdy oak club and a loyal bull terrier is all I can draw on.
That's what being a tax payer gets you. Nothing!
The first duty of government is defence of the realm and upholding law and order. It's turned into a bad joke.
You make it sound like we've descended into anarchy. I think this is very much a crime vs perception thing, though we definitely have less police officers than we used to; budget cuts bringing less in, poor conditions causing more to leave.
And up here, I'm trying to survive a rural crime wave.
When was the last time you or someone you directly know, victim of this crime wave?
I'm in rural Scotland too, and whilst k wouldn't leave farm equipment lying around I've seen no crime wave. A guy did try to rob a post office with a knife a couple of months ago, and a hedge got set on fire last year, but that's all I've seen.
It could be your crime wave is more localized (traveller camps t's d to have that effect) or it could be getting blown out of proportion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/12 05:04:40
Whilst I have enjoyed the one time he eviscerated Steve Baker over the Corbyn smears, the presence of Andrew Neil on the BBC is clear evidence of political bias from our supposedly impartial national broadcaster.
Why does it matter? Well, the BBC news network, including the online presence, is supposed to represent all the people of the UK, yet politically it normalises right wing ideology and tacitly supports the rest of the right wing press, which thanks to private ownership, is the overwhelming majority of the press in the UK despite the fact that millions of people in the UK support left wing views.
Wealthy individuals already dominate and control our tabloids and broadsheets, yet we allow the BBC to have its foremost political commentator to openly support these ideologies and we have the pleasure of having to pay for it.
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
Whilst I have enjoyed the one time he eviscerated Steve Baker over the Corbyn smears, the presence of Andrew Neil on the BBC is clear evidence of political bias from our supposedly impartial national broadcaster.
I think it is more that they are witlessly scared of the government and that if they are not seen as favourable it will all be sold off to....Rupert Murdoch....
That's resulting in less challenging, softer approaches to the government and harder line against the opposition. It is starting to shows as well.
The BBC are getting slammed by the media watchdog for their Lawson interview on climate change.
Still nuclear winter soon, so climate change will be less of an issue...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/12 08:41:19
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
I disagree that bombing Syria has nothing to do with defending the nation.
Of coruse we are not at risk of being bombed by Syria, but we certainly are at risk of the continual degradation of international law that arises from allowing people like the Syrians to flout it.
Whilst I have enjoyed the one time he eviscerated Steve Baker over the Corbyn smears, the presence of Andrew Neil on the BBC is clear evidence of political bias from our supposedly impartial national broadcaster.
Why does it matter? Well, the BBC news network, including the online presence, is supposed to represent all the people of the UK, yet politically it normalises right wing ideology and tacitly supports the rest of the right wing press, which thanks to private ownership, is the overwhelming majority of the press in the UK despite the fact that millions of people in the UK support left wing views.
Wealthy individuals already dominate and control our tabloids and broadsheets, yet we allow the BBC to have its foremost political commentator to openly support these ideologies and we have the pleasure of having to pay for it.
Because god forward the BBC has one presenter who isn’t a gurning lefty. By your own logic, since the BBC is tax payer funded and most of those right wingers you despise so much are tax payers, they deserve representation. Or should the tax payer funded bbc only support your opinions and feth the rest?
FYI, you have the guardian, and to a lesser extent the mirror as well. You’ve got plenty to work with.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/12 09:01:56
There is however a vehicle tax. My driver's license is not a tax.
I can have a television and not have to pay the license fee if I can prove it doesn't receive a signal. Which in my flat, I genuinely can't - I pipe everything in through streaming. But because I include iPlayer in my watchings, that's why I have to pay the license.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
No such thing as "road tax". There's Vehicle Excise Duty, which is a tax on owning a motor vehicle.
So if you don't buy a vehicle, then you don't pay it. But then again, it's theoretically possible to not have to pay Income Tax, VAT or customs duty, too.
I think you’re all being just a teeny bit pedantic here. The fact is, if you want to watch live tv (or drive a car) in the uk you have to pay the government for the privilege of it. And failing to do so is a criminal offence. They’re taxes, even if they (or you) don’t call them that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/12 10:05:15
I agree with all the above however this pedanticism about the nomenclature of different government customs and excise is a bit unexciting when MSN is reporting that the Daily Mail is reporting that UK submarines are moving into missile range of Syria.
Kilkrazy wrote: I agree with all the above however this pedanticism about the nomenclature of different government customs and excise is a bit unexciting when MSN is reporting that the Daily Mail is reporting that UK submarines are moving into missile range of Syria.
I really thought we'd go hot with Russia in the 2030s. I was a decade out. Oh well, at least I'm about to become old enough to serve, I could go the rest of my life without working a desk job.
iGuy91 wrote: You love the T-Rex. Its both a hero and a Villain in the first two movies. It is the "king" of dinosaurs. Its the best. You love your T-rex.
Then comes along the frakking Spinosaurus who kills the T-rex, and the movie says "LOVE THIS NOW! HE IS BETTER" But...in your heart, you love the T-rex, who shouldn't have lost to no stupid Spinosaurus. So you hate the movie. And refuse to love the Spinosaurus because it is a hamfisted attempt at taking what you loved, making it TREX +++ and trying to sell you it.
Elbows wrote: You know what's better than a psychic phase? A psychic phase which asks customers to buy more miniatures...
the_scotsman wrote: Dae think the company behind such names as deathwatch death guard deathskullz death marks death korps deathleaper death jester might be bad at naming?
