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 Future War Cultist wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
If you could tone down the smugness, that'd be appreciated.

Don’t count on it mate. I made the mistake of sharing here how the political events of the last two years have effected my family, and he just used it to make a cheap (and incorrect) shot at me. Won’t be making that mistake again, I’d show you the post but Kilkrazy deleted that whole thread. I also reported the post in question but nothing was done about it. So if any mods are ever wondering why I’m always on your case about impartiality, that’s why.

I'd very much like to know what the you're talking about. I definitely don't remember taking "cheap shots" at you over your family. I apologise if you feel that I have. I have checked through my posts in the last politics thread that was locked due to racism which stretched back until 2016 and I don't see anything that comes close to that.

However, I won't apologise for attacking the right wing and the arguments of its supporters. If that takes the form of a little light banter and the linking of articles to discredit that line of political ideology then I'm entirely comfortable with that. It's just helpful that in the last link it was a right wing publication that was reporting some less than complimentary research about those who share conservative beliefs, which was nice.

Since you wanted to know;

A third member was replying to something I said. You came along and said, quote “don’t bother talking to FWC. He just ignores anyone who disagrees with him, including his own family”.

It was actually my brother, and indeed my father too, who had stopped talking to me, who had cut me off and uninvited me to family events, not the other way around as you so smugly suggested.

That was a painful time for me, and I really didn’t need your little bs remark rubbing salt in the wound. It was posted in the thread started by Ketara from a couple of years ago. The one Kilkrazy later deleted by mistake, which is presumably why I can’t find it.

It's true. I did accidentally delete the old thread by a slip of the mouse.

To get back to current events, there is a leaked memo from the Northern Ireland civil service, which says a good solution to the border problem would be to move the border to the Irish Sea.

This is exactly what the DUP doesn't want, but it's a pretty good practical solution. When people and goods transfer into planes and ships for the crossing, there is always a delay and an opportunity for doing customs checks. Plus, this kind of system is already in place at British ports.

I'm not exactly sure what the DUP has against this except for ideology.

The DUP are absolutely terrified at the moment and have gone into bunker mode. They had a pretty close shave with losing their majority in the North in the last Assembly elections, so they've detonated the Assembly and are now having defacto Direct Rule. They are hypocrites, being unwilling to serve in a government without a Unionist First Minister, and hating serving with Nationalists in any capacity.

The problem is, the demographics are against them and their Hard Brexit stance as well as their corruption, incompetence and relationships with terrorist groups are gradually driving moderate Unionists away from them while the number of Nationalist voters continues to rise. So they're really scared that they might face reunification in the next decade or so, and that's causing some pretty out there irrational behaviour, even for them.

They are being irrational, and unreasonable, but unfortunately at the moment the DUP hold a trump card. They can bring down the government. No one else is going to form a government with the Tory’s. If the DUP withdraw support they will have to either form a minority government (fat chance of them doing that when May can’t get agreement within her own party) or hold a general election, which would be devistating for everyone. The DUP are not going to agree to a sea boarder as they see it as the first Theo to reunification.

Lots of people can bring down the government. May also has to worry about the 60 hard core Brexiteers in her party, and the larger faction of soft Europhiles.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Since you wanted to know;

A third member was replying to something I said. You came along and said, quote “don’t bother talking to FWC. He just ignores anyone who disagrees with him, including his own family”....

Hang on, how can you quote me directly like that and put words in my mouth? Kilkrazy confirmed that he accidentally deleted a thread that is all, not that I said that exact phrase which I certainly don't remember saying. I remember saying something along the lines of its sad when people fall out with their families, but thats it.

I'm sure a mod would have pulled me up on it if that's the case because believe me they're not afraid of getting in touch with me and letting me know when I cross a line.

I think perhaps you're confusing me with someone else? Either that or that link really touched a nerve.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The right really are rattled. Apparently even the potential of a Corby Govt in the future is the reason the EU is bargaining hard and not giving us what we want.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fear-of-corbyn-prompts-tough-eu-line-on-brexit-lrcmwgvlx

Definitely not that they've had 40 years of experience in extracting the best deals for their member states and are not above giving the tender areas a squeeze in order to do that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
...I'm not exactly sure what the DUP has against this except for ideology.

It is entirely ideology. Many Unionists feel that moving the customs border is effectively one step closer to a united Ireland, which considering a customs border is the token door into a country or collection of countries it probably is. However it could be politically dampened by playing up the administrative functions of a customs check area rather than highlighting that fact.
It's a tricky sell, but personally I don't really see any other way around it. Talk of technological measures is just that and is not likely to produce anywhere near the seemless border that the ERG support.
Perhaps some way of checking goods on ships, but then some form of electronic passport control points at certain points along the land border, effectively separating out the roles? I don't know how that might work, but it may settle some of the issues. Still not really a great idea though.

'the right' /= the times
I'd say we're past peak corbyn. Six months ago those elections would have probably been a near clean sweep for Labour. Now I think (hope) many people have decided that actually he's not all that great, hence the poor turnout and the conservatives not really losing anything and labour not really gaining anything. If he were so popular Labour would have probably got more votes and a higher turnout.

Corbyn's failure to deal smartly with the anti-semitism situation hurt Labour in several London boroughs with significant numbers of Jewish electors.

Person on sunday said that Ireland has been undermining British politics for 100 years.

How I laughed.

I'm not sure that local council elections represent the political temperature of the country all that much. For a start consider that Labour councillors number more than a thousand more than the Tories, yet our country at a GE is split in a much different way.

Voting for your local council also has historically low turn out, especially amongst the supposed youthful core Labour supporters. I think these elections just show a return to the status quo locally now that UKIP is out of the picture.

Farage still manages to keep his seat on Question Time though, probably because he doesnt have to submit himself to the vote to get it.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
'the right' /= the times
I'd say we're past peak corbyn. Six months ago those elections would have probably been a near clean sweep for Labour. Now I think (hope) many people have decided that actually he's not all that great, hence the poor turnout and the conservatives not really losing anything and labour not really gaining anything. If he were so popular Labour would have probably got more votes and a higher turnout.

It's always going to be more difficult to make large sweeping gains over and over. The political landscape is different now with the collapse of UKIP and a large fraction of this vote has moved to newUKIP because they are taking the line of "we don't like anyone that's not English" approach. I saw some analysis to suggest that if the votes transferred across to the GE then both Labour and Tories would be effectively neck and neck in seats which would imply Labour are still gaining. However transposing local election results is tricky as they can be influenced by local issues (e.g. Sheffield digging up trees) and traditionally the turn out is poor and more heavily favours Tory votes. It also doesn't include Scotland. If Tories lose here again (and I'm not sure they will do as well next time) then that would swing towards a left wing coalition.

LDs may also be recovering as well, which may hurt Tories in some more consistently remain, but wealthier areas.

 Da Boss wrote:
Person on sunday said that Ireland has been undermining British politics for 100 years.

How I laughed.

I missed that. That really takes some brass balls to come out with that statement. And a stunning lack of political or sociological awareness.

Yeah, I didn't see it reported anywhere in the British media, maybe it's such a mainstream view it's not worthy of comment or something. The Irish Times reported it.

Heh heh heh. Looking at it from the outside, it just makes me realize how ignorant the pundits and politicians are about the world. All this guff about them being extremely well educated and all that blah blah is just nonsense.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/218893

Make intentionally revealing movie and TV series spoilers a criminal offence.
Films & TV are a staple of the average person’s enterainment. It is the storyteller’s prerogative as to when significant plot points are revealed to the audience. Intellectual property theft constitutes a criminal offence. But, just as intellectual property can be stolen, it can also be vandalised.

Rejected petition

.. bah, so much for democracy ?!

http://uk.businessinsider.com/mep-gabriele-zimmer-eu-believes-theresa-may-government-could-collapse-before-brexit-talks-finish-2018-5

LONDON — The European Union fears Theresa May's government could collapse before Brexit negotiations reach a conclusion, a leading member of the European Parliament's Brexit steering group has told Business Insider.

Gabriele Zimmer told BI that Brussels believes May's "unstable" government may not survive until the end of Brexit talks in March 2019.

Asked whether the EU fears the UK government could fall, Zimmer, who has represented Germany as an MEP since 2004, said: "Yes, of course. We are looking at what's going on."

She cited the recent resignation of Amber Rudd as a sign of the government's fragility.

"Last week we had a meeting with members of the UK Home Office to discuss the procedure for registering EU citizens. One day later, we had the change the address of the secretary of state for internal affairs [Home Secretary] in our letter," she said, referring to Rudd being replaced by Sajid Javid.

what a time to be alive eh ?

It's almost like promising the impossible was a bad idea ?!

To be honest whilst I still ideologically agree with Brexit it's becoming ever clearer that in reality any attempt to leave without a united government with a large majority and highly competent ministers is going to be a massive failure. And we have none of those things.

I think the lack of planning beforehand was the greatest pitfall. It made the planning afterwards a total political football and free for all, and that made the process run on British political imperatives rather than reality.

I'm actually shocked that there was no plan - the Scottish had to have a very detailed white paper for people to pick holes in, but the Leave campaign had no proposed model for an exit. This is not standard practice for referenda. When making a constitutional change, propose legislation for the change has to be described.

"This is not standard practice for referenda"

Referenda in general aren't standard practice in British democracy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_in_the_United_Kingdom

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Lots of people can bring down the government. May also has to worry about the 60 hard core Brexiteers in her party, and the larger faction of soft Europhiles.

Whilst that’s true, they would have to rebel against the party, potentially risk loosing the whip and part expulsion (unlikely, but a risk). The DUP just have to say “we are not working with you. Buy!” All they have to do is act like petulant children, which they have history on.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
"This is not standard practice for referenda"

Referenda in general aren't standard practice in British democracy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_in_the_United_Kingdom

Oh aye, I know that. But I was meaning in countries where they are part of the normal course of things.

Well, true. Places like Switzerland have had the practice. The procedure for the Brexit referendum was made up as we went along - no surprise that the results are the same.

A delegation from Ireland came across to give advice to the Remain campaign before and after, but they didn't listen. Paddy doesn't know.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Well, true. Places like Switzerland have had the practice. The procedure for the Brexit referendum was made up as we went along - no surprise that the results are the same.

That's because the referendum was only and solely meant as a political tool to silence the extreme nut cases in the Tory party. There was no plan because it was never meant to go ahead. It was part of a political game and it backfired spectacularly.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
To be honest whilst I still ideologically agree with Brexit it's becoming ever clearer that in reality any attempt to leave without a united government with a large majority and highly competent ministers is going to be a massive failure. And we have none of those things.

It was doomed the moment leave won regardless of who was at helm

That's the problem with populism; getting people riled up about a problem that doesn't exist and then offer all things to all men. It sounds great until you have to try and deliver on any of it.

I'd probably have been for Brexit if it came with any sort of considered plan.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
To get back to current events, there is a leaked memo from the Northern Ireland civil service, which says a good solution to the border problem would be to move the border to the Irish Sea.

It'd certainly make the Manx feel important again.

It’s just a shame May had to go hold a needless election and give power to the DUP. Otherwise she could have pressed on with the Irish Sea proposal. Showing my passport at the airport or docks is a price I’m willing to pay. They can’t use that stupid ‘no divergence from the rest of the uk’ excuse because as their stance on abortion and gay fights show, they can tolerate such a thing when it suits them.

Indeed so.

In the wider context of Brexit, here is an interesting opinion piece from The Guardian (nest of lefty vipers and fifth columnists.)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/08/brexit-deal-mess-leavers-cheerleaders-abandon

TL/DR: The divide between Leave and Remain is a result of the current culture wars and will not go away just because we Leave.

The whole situation in Northern Ireland about abortion rights is utterly shameful. It’s an embarrassment upon the whole UK that we have fostered a situation to pander to these backward idiots instead of having rights and freedoms equal for all across our nation.

I don't think it's helpful to frame the argument in terms of "backwards idiots".

The purpose of devolved government is to give the regions a way to vary the law from the UK standard. If the right to abortion is a human right as defined in the European Convention on Human Rights, the people of NI (and Eire) will be able to take cases up to the ECHR, and thereby overturn local law.

If this is not possible, then I think people have to make and win the argument within their own constituency on reasonable grounds.