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East Coast mainline returning from private hands. Again

Seriously. It's time to stop pretending that privatisation works for anyone other than those lining their pockets.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
So we stay in the eu, then what? What about all the issues surrounding it? The open boarders, the waste, the lack of accountability? What are we supposed to do then? Business would carry on as before and our complaints would be fobbed off because our bluff will have been completely called.

So what if Scotland stays in the UK, then what? What about all the issues surrounding it? The domination of London, the electoral system which sometimes leaves Scotland unrepresented in government, the ministers retiring into directorships of companies they gave contracts to? What are we supposed to do then? Business would carry on as before and our complaints would be fobbed off because Scotland's bluff will have been completely called.

 monarda wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
So we stay in the eu, then what? What about all the issues surrounding it? The open boarders, the waste, the lack of accountability? What are we supposed to do then? Business would carry on as before and our complaints would be fobbed off because our bluff will have been completely called.

So what if Scotland stays in the UK, then what? What about all the issues surrounding it? The domination of London, the electoral system which sometimes leaves Scotland unrepresented in government, the ministers retiring into directorships of companies they gave contracts to? What are we supposed to do then? Business would carry on as before and our complaints would be fobbed off because Scotland's bluff will have been completely called.

1) We do not have open borders. We are also not signed up to Schengen.

2) Read the Review of the Balance of Competencies. The overwhelming conclusion of that report is that the UK did very well within the EU.

Nobody was arguing the EU was perfect, but it is a joint effort of negotiations and collaborations between 28 *sovereign* governments (seriously, I wish someone would put this utter nonsense to bed) and like any negotiation it requires compromises and sacrifices to gain a common good.

3) The potential breakup of the union was discussed as a danger arising from Brexit.

Not that anyone listened.

We don’t have open boarders?...ok, so if a convicted killer from an eu country comes to ours, we can stop them at the boarder and send them back? And if they make it through anyway and we find out after the fact, we can still boot them out right?

 Future War Cultist wrote:
We don’t have open boarders?...ok, so if a convicted killer from an eu country comes to ours, we can stop them at the boarder and send them back? And if they make it through anyway and we find out after the fact, we can still boot them out right?

Is this convicted killer one who has served the sentence and been freed, or are they on the run?

Either, take your pick.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Either, take your pick.

If on the run, he'll be stopped at a border check. If we're still connected to Interpol.
I'd he's served time, why should we reject him?

EU citizens have the same checks on entering our borders as anywhere with a visa waiver scheme, more or less.

I'll be avoiding the BBC this weekend, because the royalist propaganda is already in full swing.

Those royal correspondents are going to need surgery to remove their tongues from the royal rear.

Some of the coverage makes me cringe.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I'll be avoiding the BBC this weekend, because the royalist propaganda is already in full swing.

Those royal correspondents are going to need surgery to remove their tongues from the royal rear.

Some of the coverage makes me cringe.

I've not actually seen anything so far yet myself. I'm not all that bothered tbh.

I’m just annoyed that the ginger spare doesn’t warrant a day off, like his brother did.

I'm hoping to slip into the cinema whilst everyone is distracted between that and cup final day to finally watch Infinity War without the usual accompaniment of coke slurping and popcorn rustling.

Ouch! Right in the Brexit, part 15

And remember folks. This isn’t an attempt to overturn or frustrate Brexit. Instead, it’s the proper checks and measures being applied - and it’s pushing back against fanatics in the Parliamentary Tory Party, that seem to have mistaken a referendum as Carte Blanche to press all their wildest political five-knuckle fantasies.

@ Herzlos

My answer to that is that people reoffend, and we have enough of our own gak bags as it is.

Regardless of what happens, if this all results in the lords being abolished then there will be one small consolation.

Yeah....never going to happen. Not when it’s the career politician’s retirement home of choice.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ Herzlos

My answer to that is that people reoffend, and we have enough of our own gak bags as it is.

Regardless of what happens, if this all results in the lords being abolished then there will be one small consolation.

Not everyone reoffends, especially with murder. We still retain the power to remove them if they offend again or don't get a job.
But you need to treat time served convicts as innocent if you want any form of rehabilitation to work.

The house of lords aren't going to be abolished no matter how much the daily mail rages against them.

Satire.

Heh, also satire...

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/house-of-lords-only-senile-old-bastards-in-country-who-dont-back-brexit-20180509164445

Bwahahahaha!

It is true!

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ Herzlos

My answer to that is that people reoffend, and we have enough of our own gak bags as it is.

Regardless of what happens, if this all results in the lords being abolished then there will be one small consolation.

Amusingly, Rees-Mogg and Bozza both have consistently voted against abolition of the unelected House of Lords.

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24926/jacob_rees-mogg/north_east_somerset/divisions?policy=837

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10999/boris_johnson/uxbridge_and_south_ruislip/divisions?policy=837

Ketera once had a great idea for what the HoL should be. I can’t remember the specifics but it intended to take the politics out of the decision making.

 Riquende wrote:
I'm hoping to slip into the cinema whilst everyone is distracted between that and cup final day to finally watch Infinity War without the usual accompaniment of coke slurping and popcorn rustling.

You'll be lucky because that will probably be where everyone that couldn't care less about either football or the wedding will be heading.

I find it utterly bizarre that so many people are interested about the wedding of two random people that you will never know or otherwise care about. It would be like going to the wedding of Rupert Murdoch. Just why?

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Ketera once had a great idea for what the HoL should be. I can’t remember the specifics but it intended to take the politics out of the decision making.

I've got a great idea for HOL reform as well. It involves 600+ one-way tickets to British Antarctic territory.


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 Riquende wrote:
I'm hoping to slip into the cinema whilst everyone is distracted between that and cup final day to finally watch Infinity War without the usual accompaniment of coke slurping and popcorn rustling.

It could be 25 degrees this weekend. I wouldn't want to be stuck in a cinema on a day like that.

What would you then do to stop the Tories running roughshod over democracy?
They need reform, but exiling them isn't going to help anyone.

(the cinema could be pretty warm, but that means they'll be quiet & they sell ice cream. I'm probably spending the weekend doing landscaping work).

 Whirlwind wrote:

 Riquende wrote:
I'm hoping to slip into the cinema whilst everyone is distracted between that and cup final day to finally watch Infinity War without the usual accompaniment of coke slurping and popcorn rustling.

You'll be lucky because that will probably be where everyone that couldn't care less about either football or the wedding will be heading.

I find it utterly bizarre that so many people are interested about the wedding of two random people that you will never know or otherwise care about. It would be like going to the wedding of Rupert Murdoch. Just why?

Some People like weddings
Some People like celebs
Some People like the Royal's
Some People will just use it as a excuse for a bit of a do with friends - party, BBQ etc
Many people like Prince Harry - who has actually served his country in the military
Many people like Megan - who seems nice, confident and a nice bridge between two countries.
Some people will be making money out of it
The News channels love it and hence its even being talked about on this thread.

Put all these together and lots of people will likely watch and enjoy.

why do people do anything...

Herzlos wrote:
What would you then do to stop the Tories running roughshod over democracy?
They need reform, but exiling them isn't going to help anyone.

(the cinema could be pretty warm, but that means they'll be quiet & they sell ice cream. I'm probably spending the weekend doing landscaping work).

I would take a leaf out of the American book and have an elected Senate of sorts. Low number of members, 6 year terms, and a minimum age of say, 40 years.

In theory, this would allow them to take the long term, national interest view, and make clear headed decisions, free from party politics.

People would probably contest the age restriction, but you'd want retired teachers, doctors, judges, colonels, social workers etc etc filling the role, that kind of thing.

Can you take the politics out of decisions for people who need to face re-election? That usually requires money too.

I'm not sure the US Senate is a great example of politics free decisions.

I'd rather see some sort of jury of experts, somehow.

Try a single 10-20 year term.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Herzlos wrote:
What would you then do to stop the Tories running roughshod over democracy?
They need reform, but exiling them isn't going to help anyone.

(the cinema could be pretty warm, but that means they'll be quiet & they sell ice cream. I'm probably spending the weekend doing landscaping work).

I would take a leaf out of the American book and have an elected Senate of sorts. Low number of members, 6 year terms, and a minimum age of say, 40 years.

In theory, this would allow them to take the long term, national interest view, and make clear headed decisions, free from party politics.

People would probably contest the age restriction, but you'd want retired teachers, doctors, judges, colonels, social workers etc etc filling the role, that kind of thing.

So you end up with an equally unrepresentative group of people.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Try a single 10-20 year term.

For a lot of the current lords this is what they get, because they are old enough to die in that time.

The important decision is how they are selected (elected?)


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Steve Bell has been doing brilliant political cartoons for over 30 years, and there are still days when he nails it even better than the best.

Steve Bell on the Hackitt report on Grenfell

To make it like the US senate, surely the way to do it is to run a vote strictly along geographic county* lines. A single 10 year term would suffice, and you could have 2 'lord' positions per county which are staggered so a vote happens every 5 years to coincide with a GE. You can't stand as an incumbent but could stand for the other county position after 5 years out.

Furthermore, make the 'lords' vote PR.

* or non-English equivalent