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ChrisB wrote:
Not sure if this is new/been seen before, but here's the datasheet for Sly Marbo:

http://i.imgur.com/QZ9qOff.png

Where's this from?

Yeah, its not for 8th ed or shadow war. Profiles don't match.

Well this is bizarre. Why would they release him twelve seconds before 8th drops?

the_scotsman wrote:
Well this is bizarre. Why would they release him twelve seconds before 8th drops?

Assuming it's official and not fan port of the shadow war stats maybe somebody just had little bit of time since they released his stats for shadow war(which doesn't get invalidated with 8th edition) anyway?

Thanks, just never seen one for 7th!

It'd be fanmade.

EDIT: While I'll be damned, it isn't fanmade.

Given it shows a converted model, and they just released the Shadow War profle using the actual model... fanmade.

Also it has stats we know won't be in 8th, like I, just in case there was any doubt still.

Erm....that's the model shown on my downloaded copy of his Shadow War rules?

Ah, there we go:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/04/sly-marbo-rules-for-warhammer-40000/

Eek.
Gonna need to do some rebasing...

ChrisB wrote:
Ah, there we go:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/04/sly-marbo-rules-for-warhammer-40000/

How on earth did you get it so quickly?!

Anyway, he's fun. Missing the good old demo charge which made him good before (and also 40 points cheaper in fairness) but turning 3 bits of terrain into dangerous terrain, plus an AP3 sniper pistol at BS5, means he's likely to have a fair impact in a game for 25 points. Stealth+FNP is nice too, but let's be honest, he's out of action the turn after he arrives.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Given it shows a converted model, and they just released the Shadow War profle using the actual model... fanmade.

Also it has stats we know won't be in 8th, like I, just in case there was any doubt still.

*Same model was for official shadow war stat page...No official model on sale=even GW had to resort to conversion.

the_scotsman wrote:
Well this is bizarre. Why would they release him twelve seconds before 8th drops?

My theory is pure sadism.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

changemod wrote:
I legitimately don't see why characters joining units is considered complex/a mess/causing issues? It's always been completely straightforwards to me: Stay within coherency, majority toughness and look out sir, apply any special rules the character shares with his unit or vice versa.

There was the hassle of the poorly thought out challenge system, but that effected non-independent characters equally.

Yeah I was happy to see no more challenges but quickly realized it wasn't without more downsides. Baby out with the bath water it seems at this point, especially seeing as there won't be all these usr's to toss around to make death stars, which was the primary complaint I'm sure.





" True line of sight is used to establish line of sight to a model, but otherwise models count in or out of cover depending if they are in a piece of terrain or if they are touching it and the firing - line goes through the terrain"


Not happy to see this at all. Area terrain is there for speed of play, it shouldn't be the only option. Flanking should matter, it should be an effective tool to mitigate cover saves, a jungle is one thing, terrain that in no way physically obstructs models shouldn't be a thing. This would be an example of a bridge to far on the complexity vs time front. I want 5th ed terrain rules back, both players can still beat their heads against the wall in a pre game terrain dicussion, but at least there's a bed rock case to be made for less permeable terrain. GW has gone back and forth on melthing through walls since 5th and seeing as they will be shrinking the core rules to 12 pages, I can't see there being much on pathing or even impassable terrain. We'll have to count our blessing just getting a statement that other models are impassable.

What was the chance on them doing good terrain rules after the examples from few past releases?

 jamopower wrote:
What was the chance on them doing good terrain rules after the examples from few past releases?

Sure, but with the ever increasing amount of really great looking terrain they put it out, it's a real shame that the rules for that terrain are not really of the same quality. Especially using the rules they released for the shadow war terrain as an example of less than ideal effort. Basically ruin rules with some hint of jervis randomness, le sigh.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Otherwise, I guess I'll stick with 30K?

Until they feth that as well and release the remaining Legions on AoS-style 8th Ed rules, leaving you with a system that has no end, and a new system with no beginning.

Yeah I'm really hoping they don't come for 30k, that would end it all real quick. A bunch of 140$ leath bound paperweights are actually a pretty big reminder to never take the wallet out again. Especially if we never get answers for inferno.

As long as characters can roll LOS! for being within 2" of a unit of the same type, I'll be happy.

For example, An infantry Librarian can move alongside a unit of infantry Marines and anytime an enemy unit allocates wounds to the Libbie, the Marine unit may roll 2+ for each wound. Once all wounds are allocated, saves are then taken on the appropriate models. If the Libby is on a bike, however, you'll need a bike unit nearby to roll LOS!
This would discourage character sniping, yet not make it entirely impossible (like hiding them deep within the unit in 7th)

If characters cannot join AND there is no LOS, I'll be pissed as many other players will. Sure it helps prevent DeathStars, but what about that $20+ model I bought and spent all that time painting and building a back story for just to have them kilied in the first turn.
Characters not joining for ease of game play is fine, but allowing those characters to just get focus fired on is a poor move that I think GW knows not to do.

And BTW, LOS onto nearby units is a concept that GW has done in the past in an earlier edition of Fantasy, but I cannot remember if it was 7th, 8th or an even earlier version. So it is entirely within the scope of what we have seen so far.

-

Well, that confirms it then characters cannot join units...and GW has officially ruined another game for me. Bad psychic phase, bad morale system, and now this. These guys don't learn.

Well holy heck, I stand corrected! Marbo is official! (just for 7th)

 Crablezworth wrote:

 jamopower wrote:
What was the chance on them doing good terrain rules after the examples from few past releases?

Sure, but with the ever increasing amount of really great looking terrain they put it out, it's a real shame that the rules for that terrain are not really of the same quality. Especially using the rules they released for the shadow war terrain as an example of less than ideal effort. Basically ruin rules with some hint of jervis randomness, le sigh.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Otherwise, I guess I'll stick with 30K?

Until they feth that as well and release the remaining Legions on AoS-style 8th Ed rules, leaving you with a system that has no end, and a new system with no beginning.

Yeah I'm really hoping they don't come for 30k, that would end it all real quick. A bunch of 140$ leath bound paperweights are actually a pretty big reminder to never take the wallet out again. Especially if we never get answers for inferno.

They already confirmed 8th edition rules for 30k "soon" on the FW site in a product description, but it has since been removed.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Split fire seems dubious, as they would have mentioned that during the teaser on the shooting phase.
+1 Attack on the Charge contradicts earlier reports, no? Supposedly you only get to strike first now.
The change to invul also seems dubious, as that seems tricky to work out with invul reliant units such as demons.

No - they make perfect sense. AoS has split fire for everything. They didn't need to mention it. Invulnerable works like AoS 'ignores rend up to' abilities.

People asked for 40k rules for Marbo and they got them, 25pts is cheaper than a terminator and will almost certainly do more.

I'd like to see a return to area terrain rather than TLOS terrain, its a quicker system and reduces arguments about what is and isnt in cover.

Issue already covered.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Well, that confirms it then characters cannot join units...and GW has officially ruined another game for me. Bad psychic phase, bad morale system, and now this. These guys don't learn.

Except the majority seem to be on board. The facebook posts are certainly getting a very good reception. You don't like them, that doesn't mean your view is shared.

Besides, if you think either the psychic phase or morale looks worse than what we currently have, I don't know what to tell you - I'm not sure how anyone other than a masochist who thrives off poorly written rules and arguments could actually enjoy the 7e system for psychic powers.

"...You forgot that the MSU has also another 5 guys so both sides have same number left. Difference comes when you would lose more than 3 guys to battleshock...Say extra casualty from shooting so big unit would now be 3 left vs MSU 5 left.

OBVIOUSLY you don't compare 10 vs 5. You compare 10 vs 5 and 5."

So comparing 10 vs 5 and 5, let's just say that each unit suffers only 1 casualty each including the 10 man unit.
It appears one strategy is to spread attacks across the MSUs if you are attacked.
Maybe you shoot up one unit and assault like crazy with the other at each 5 man unit.
Or if it's not your turn, if they're both dogpiling your unit, you split your cc attacks across them.
Because each one that loses a unit is (unless they have a special rule in force) now has to take a battleshock test.

 Crablezworth wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Well this is bizarre. Why would they release him twelve seconds before 8th drops?

My theory is pure sadism.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

changemod wrote:
I legitimately don't see why characters joining units is considered complex/a mess/causing issues? It's always been completely straightforwards to me: Stay within coherency, majority toughness and look out sir, apply any special rules the character shares with his unit or vice versa.

There was the hassle of the poorly thought out challenge system, but that effected non-independent characters equally.

Yeah I was happy to see no more challenges but quickly realized it wasn't without more downsides. Baby out with the bath water it seems at this point, especially seeing as there won't be all these usr's to toss around to make death stars, which was the primary complaint I'm sure.





" True line of sight is used to establish line of sight to a model, but otherwise models count in or out of cover depending if they are in a piece of terrain or if they are touching it and the firing - line goes through the terrain"


Not happy to see this at all. Area terrain is there for speed of play, it shouldn't be the only option. Flanking should matter, it should be an effective tool to mitigate cover saves, a jungle is one thing, terrain that in no way physically obstructs models shouldn't be a thing. This would be an example of a bridge to far on the complexity vs time front. I want 5th ed terrain rules back, both players can still beat their heads against the wall in a pre game terrain dicussion, but at least there's a bed rock case to be made for less permeable terrain. GW has gone back and forth on melthing through walls since 5th and seeing as they will be shrinking the core rules to 12 pages, I can't see there being much on pathing or even impassable terrain. We'll have to count our blessing just getting a statement that other models are impassable.

I think a lot of the recurring issues people are having is that they use things like Ruins with bases attached and forget GW ruin terrain doesn't have bases. so the rule of "touching terrain AND the firing line passes through the terrain" means flanking does matter for gw ruins. The solution to sidewalks of doom is just...stop treating Ruins as area terrain, and make the only area terrain the much weaker stuff, like Craters, Swamps or whatever that grants much lesser cover.

If a guy's in a ruin, and a wall is between him and the firer, he's in a ruin. If not, he gets no cover.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Well, that confirms it then characters cannot join units...and GW has officially ruined another game for me. Bad psychic phase, bad morale system, and now this. These guys don't learn.

That's fair - its ruined for you - however it remains to be seen if it has been saved for others.....certainly the psychic phase seems a million times better than 7th, - depending on the powers of course - hopefully no 8th ed invisibility style brokeness.

Eyjio wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Well, that confirms it then characters cannot join units...and GW has officially ruined another game for me. Bad psychic phase, bad morale system, and now this. These guys don't learn.

Except the majority seem to be on board. The facebook posts are certainly getting a very good reception. You don't like them, that doesn't mean your view is shared.

Besides, if you think either the psychic phase or morale looks worse than what we currently have, I don't know what to tell you - I'm not sure how anyone other than a masochist who thrives off poorly written rules and arguments could actually enjoy the 7e system for psychic powers.

That's probably inaccurate as well. I would say the majority are waiting to see, and probably most of them aren't posting at all. You have to remember the 50 or so posters in this thread (if there are that many( represent a very small minority of players and I would say its safe to say most repeat posters like what they have read of the rules. I would suspect there are plenty of people who fail to comment as they don't know what to think as of yet, or perhaps like some of the changes and dislike others.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/04/new-warhammer-40000-the-great-rift/

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Well, that confirms it then characters cannot join units...and GW has officially ruined another game for me. Bad psychic phase, bad morale system, and now this. These guys don't learn.

You may think the new rules are bad, but other people like them. That doesn't make them bad, that means you have the opinion of not liking them. I think most of the new rules are improvements and will result in a faster and more enjoyable game.

zamerion wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/04/new-warhammer-40000-the-great-rift/

Interesting - so given the whole time marches on spiel - are we going into the 42nd Millennium?