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Gosh - does that mean a Pulse Rifle is twice as likely to wound Toughness 8 as a bolter? Or will the gun go down in str to compensate?

 En Excelsis wrote:
One of the primary reasons that Wraithlords (wraith-anything FTM) are so attractive in the current game is that by not having Armor Facing and instead having a very high toughness and a decent W count makes them vastly superior to other walkers. I'd had my Wraithlords go head-to-head with dreads & venerable dreads more times than I can count and I've never once come out on the losing side of that.

This change makes all other walkers in wraithlords, which hugely devalues the wraithlords themselves. I have my doubts that this shortcoming can be overcome with a special rules but I will reserve judgement until my fears are realized in writing.

In 7th wraithlords are not valuable at all. There is such a gap between GMCs and MCs that there is no logical reason to bring a WL over a WK.

 Kirasu wrote:
I hope the split fire is by weapon type and all shots happen at same time or 40k is about to get a whole lot slower rather than faster.

or It'll be "I'm going to fire this marine at that marine, this guy at that other unit, my 9th guy is going to fire 24" away at a 5th unit.. etc."

I really think they will, I can't see a scenario where they wouldn't.

As you said, it would be far too clumsy a process.

Backfire wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Interesting stuff.

I wonder if that sort of Split Fire applies to multiple weapons on the same model (Vehicles, for instance, with both anti-infantry and anti-tank weaponry on the same chassis - Tau Hammerheads with SMS and a Railgun, for example).

One hopes so, as the current Hammerhead setup is idiotic. They could split fire in the old edition if they bought Target Lock, but in their infinite wisdom such abilities were removed in current Codex. I guess they needed to nerf tanks to sell Riptides.

On the other hand, this leaves open the question, what will then separate high-tech or "elite" units from regular line schmocks? Split-fire was one of the rules which allowed to instill 'hi-tech' feel to some armies.

Yeah, maybe they could say weapons can fire at another target again at BS6 or something

GW wrote:Tomorrow, we’ll take a look at how characters work, join us then.

But don't join the characters, 'cause they can't join anyone now.

Oh good lord. command squad of 10 marines, all with combi-meltas, drop pod. Come down, possibly combat squad them, light up that whole parking lot with split fire. Assuming you don't have to choose your targets ahead of time.....

Quite a subtle but big shift

so a heavy bolter (assuming s5) still wounds an ork on a 3 but now a guardsman on a 3 also not a 2

plasma guns (assuming s7) now wound a marine on a 3!

lascannons wound a plague marine on a 3! (assuming t5)

for funs it will take 288 shots from guardsmen firing at a dreanought to stand a statistical chance of killing it in one shooting phase with lasguns XD

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
I hope the split fire is by weapon type and all shots happen at same time or 40k is about to get a whole lot slower rather than faster.

or It'll be "I'm going to fire this marine at that marine, this guy at that other unit, my 9th guy is going to fire 24" away at a 5th unit.. etc."

I really think they will, I can't see a scenario where they wouldn't.

As you said, it would be far too clumsy a process.

I can totally see a scenario where they wouldnt.. Its called "Games Workshop" :p It's only happened dozens of times already where a bonehead rule makes it through.

So a question that crossed my mind just now: how will this split fire change affect charge targets?

The article on the small guys didn't really cover the small guys at all, but at least gave us the to wound table, and confirmed that evrry unit will have split fire. Thats a great improvement, since one of the main problems of devastators and hw weapons guys was that you were wasting so many shots

Thanks guys on the Grand Alliances. Makes me think instead of quitting 7th and all of GW, I should have just played AoS instead

Now GW can take a Dev Squad with 4 Heavy Weapons in a battle report and not look like complete fools for doing it!!!

 ClockworkZion wrote:
New article is up: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/08/17794gw-homepage-post-4/

And the new SvT chart:

Spoiler:

Interesting

so Toughness and Strength is the new WeaponSkill, as unless you you have a very high or low value it doesn't matter

S7 is equal S6, as you will wound your standard targets on 3+ or 5+
and I guess you will have to pay more points for T7 than T6 or 5,but it makes no difference as you get wounded by 3+ or 5+ anyway


Somehow, they could have just used fixed to wound rolls, would have made no difference

Split fire! Makes so much more sense.

 Kirasu wrote:
I hope the split fire is by weapon type and all shots happen at same time or 40k is about to get a whole lot slower rather than faster.

or It'll be "I'm going to fire this marine at that marine, this guy at that other unit, my 9th guy is going to fire 24" away at a 5th unit.. etc."

I hope so too. Would be very frustrating to wait for an opponent to roll for each Bolter one by one.

 nintura wrote:
Oh good lord. command squad of 10 marines, all with combi-meltas, drop pod. Come down, possibly combat squad them, light up that whole parking lot with split fire. Assuming you don't have to choose your targets ahead of time.....

Command squads can only have 5 dudes.

Sternguard, however, can take 10. We'll have to see if you split by weapon type, though. If they all have to shoot combi-melta and one thing, then it isn't quite as bad.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So a question that crossed my mind just now: how will this split fire change affect charge targets?

Good point, looking at the way things are going, you can charge whatever you like, and i'm sure they've said you can charge multiple targets already.

xerxeshavelock wrote:
Gosh - does that mean a Pulse Rifle is twice as likely to wound Toughness 8 as a bolter? Or will the gun go down in str to compensate?

Yes, we don't know yet.

Before anyone gets too excited about Boltguns wounding MC's and Vehicles at 5+, remember that in 8th edition MC's have lot more wounds.

 Latro_ wrote:
Quite a subtle but big shift

so a heavy bolter (assuming s5) still wounds an ork on a 3 but now a guardsman on a 3 also not a 2

plasma guns (assuming s7) now wound a marine on a 3!

lascannons wound a plague marine on a 3! (assuming t5)

As an Ork player, I take a little offense at it since the only thing separating Orks and humans is the slightly improved toughness. That said, a regular bolter and most other small arms still gives Orks the advantage of wound on 4 and guardsmen on 3, so we've got that going for us, which is nice.

Backfire wrote:

xerxeshavelock wrote:
Gosh - does that mean a Pulse Rifle is twice as likely to wound Toughness 8 as a bolter? Or will the gun go down in str to compensate?

Yes, we don't know yet.

Before anyone gets too excited about Boltguns wounding MC's and Vehicles at 5+, remember that in 8th edition MC's have lot more wounds.

Also if they stay the same Pulse Rifles only wound Sisters and Guard on a 3+ so that's nice.

 obsidianaura wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
I hope the split fire is by weapon type and all shots happen at same time or 40k is about to get a whole lot slower rather than faster.

or It'll be "I'm going to fire this marine at that marine, this guy at that other unit, my 9th guy is going to fire 24" away at a 5th unit.. etc."

Agreed, it should be declared first hopefully, 2 lascannons at that, rest of the bolters at that, then roll.

At least you should have to declare all targets, even if bolters can fire differently. That would still slow things down, but if you don't pre-declare every shooting phase against small units will take forever.

 kronk wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Oh good lord. command squad of 10 marines, all with combi-meltas, drop pod. Come down, possibly combat squad them, light up that whole parking lot with split fire. Assuming you don't have to choose your targets ahead of time.....

Command squads can only have 5 dudes.

Sternguard, however, can take 10. We'll have to see if you split by weapon type, though. If they all have to shoot combi-melta and one thing, then it isn't quite as bad.

THATS the unit I was trying to remember. I actually dont have any in my salamanders army so I never got to use them. Would have, but building and painting that leviathan dread was so much more fun (and I'd argue 10x more effective, that things a freaking beast)

Backfire wrote:

xerxeshavelock wrote:
Gosh - does that mean a Pulse Rifle is twice as likely to wound Toughness 8 as a bolter? Or will the gun go down in str to compensate?

Yes, we don't know yet.

Before anyone gets too excited about Boltguns wounding MC's and Vehicles at 5+, remember that in 8th edition MC's have lot more wounds.

Also, you'd have to imagine that most MCs would have an 8+ toughness, right?

 kodos wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
New article is up: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/08/17794gw-homepage-post-4/

And the new SvT chart:

Spoiler:

S7 is equal S6, as you will wound your standard targets on 3+ or 5+
and I guess you will have to pay more points for T7 than T6 or 5,but it makes no difference as you get wounded by 3+ or 5+ anyway


Somehow, they could have just used fixed to wound rolls, would have made no difference

S7 and S6 are not equal as S6 would would something like a carnefix T6 (current stat as reference) on a 4+ whereas S7 would wound on a 3+

 nintura wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Oh good lord. command squad of 10 marines, all with combi-meltas, drop pod. Come down, possibly combat squad them, light up that whole parking lot with split fire. Assuming you don't have to choose your targets ahead of time.....

Command squads can only have 5 dudes.

Sternguard, however, can take 10. We'll have to see if you split by weapon type, though. If they all have to shoot combi-melta and one thing, then it isn't quite as bad.

THATS the unit I was trying to remember. I actually dont have any in my salamanders army so I never got to use them. Would have, but building and painting that leviathan dread was so much more fun (and I'd argue 10x more effective, that things a freaking beast)

I figured that's the unit you meant.

Again, if you declare targets by weapon type, it's not so bad. If every swinging maynard in one squad gets to shoot a bolt gun at a different unit, that would suck.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
New article is up: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/08/17794gw-homepage-post-4/

And the new SvT chart:

Spoiler:

Wow.
This means that unless your T hits even targets, your unit will be wounded on a 3+. These T values are 6, 8, 10, 12, etc...

For example, if marine Bikes stay at T5, both bolters and lasguns will wound them on a 5+. This is a boost to low STR attacks.
Going from a T7 to T8 is the difference from bolters wounding on a 6+ vs a 5+. This means that if the Tallos pain engine stays at T7, it's going to be much weaker vs bolters. If a LoC clocks in at T7, and the BT is T8, the BT will be twice as durable to small arms fire.

Likewise, there is not as much of a punishment for having a lower toughness. T3 units will no longer be wounded by heavy bolters on a 2+. Marines will now be wounded by tesla weapons on a 3+.

The new chart is pretty interesting.

It will be my goal to kill a land raider with a las-pistol this edition

 matphat wrote:

Backfire wrote:

xerxeshavelock wrote:
Gosh - does that mean a Pulse Rifle is twice as likely to wound Toughness 8 as a bolter? Or will the gun go down in str to compensate?

Yes, we don't know yet.

Before anyone gets too excited about Boltguns wounding MC's and Vehicles at 5+, remember that in 8th edition MC's have lot more wounds.

Also, you'd have to imagine that most MCs would have an 8+ toughness, right?

Given that Dreads are only T7 and that most MCs in 40k currently are T6 or less... probably not.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Now GW can take a Dev Squad with 4 Heavy Weapons in a battle report and not look like complete fools for doing it!!!

I've never thought of taking devastators with just bolters before, what's your secret to success with them?