40k New Edition Summary - 14th June 17: Lord Duncan paints Primaris in Gravis/non-codex SM focus

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**Lithlandis Stormcrow**

Boy are those sternguard boxes gonna fly off the shelves now...

**nintura**

lessthanjeff wrote:
Zewrath wrote:
Crimson wrote:
Ultimately this character size debate is about arbitrary cutoff point. Such thing previously existed with characters who were MCs. There is always some edge cases that will feel a bit weird either way, in any system where the choice is binary.

I'm interested in seeing how Daemon Princes are handled, they're about the same size as Guilliman.

???

Mortarion looks (from the leaks) like he's going to be around the same size as Magnus and as shown multiple times in this thread, Magnus is huge and easily dwarfs Girlyman by several magnitudes. IIRC Angron is sometimes described being as big as a lesser titan, in terms of size, and Fulgrim is supposedly a tall several limbed, serpent looking, creature with huge wings.

Claiming that daemon princes are "about the same size as Guilliman" is a postulate made on a hugely misinformed basis.

If you look at Belakor, he's probably smaller than Guilliman actually.

I'm conflicted on where daemon princes will fall because I feel like they should have had a lot more wounds than they did in 7th so I wouldn't be surprised if they went above 10 but the fact remains that in 7th they were definitely set to have less than Guilliman so they could come out at 7ish like a dreadnought or something.

Way smaller. Be'lakor is tiny but then he's an old, old model.

**ClockworkZion**

MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Does this mean that Heavy Bolters are six shots, and Twin Heavy Bolters have twelve at 18"?

That's what it looks like, yes. If it's true then the Heavy Bolter got one heck of a buff.

**Daedalus81**

docdoom77 wrote:
I'm confused by this. Twin Linked weapons shoot double at half range, but that Twin Heavy bolter was Heavy 6. So it shoots 6 shots at long range and 12 at short?!?

Seems to run counter to the article.

Very confusing...I would not think HBs would be 6 shots given that battle cannon profile

**Lord Kragan**

Crazyterran wrote:
Battlecannoms make marines a 5+ save. Guess they are being stingy with Rend.

Not really. They're being fairly consistent: AP4 is -1. Ap3 is -2 Ap2 is -3 and Ap1 is -4

**Mymearan**

I assume they added the "at half range" bit in error, or twin-linked weapons would be exactly the same as rapid fire weapons (and also those Twin Heavy Bolters would be way too sick). Also it has no special rules, which it would need.

**Lithlandis Stormcrow**

Mymearan wrote:
I assume they added the "at half range" bit in error, or twin-linked weapons would be exactly the same as rapid fire weapons (and also those Twin Heavy Bolters would be way too sick).

Agreed. They probably messed up the writing. The profile points to twice the firepower, which would be logical.

**demontalons**

Yes terminators are back! Especially chaos terms. And yes two linked heavy bolters will be able to shoot 12 at 18 inches. Landraiders just became threats again. And crusaders will mulch hordes

**docdoom77**

Mymearan wrote:
I assume they added the "at half range" bit in error, or twin-linked weapons would be exactly the same as rapid fire weapons (and also those Twin Heavy Bolters would be way too sick).

Maybe, but I assumed it just doubled rapid fire as well. So a TL bolter would shoot once at long range and 4 times at half range.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Mymearan wrote:
I assume they added the "at half range" bit in error, or twin-linked weapons would be exactly the same as rapid fire weapons (and also those Twin Heavy Bolters would be way too sick).

Or rapid fire weapons now work differently.
I don't think we've seen the new rules for rapid fire and assault.

**Daedalus81**

Mymearan wrote:
I assume they added the "at half range" bit in error, or twin-linked weapons would be exactly the same as rapid fire weapons (and also those Twin Heavy Bolters would be way too sick).

That would make sense. Going to check facebook for clarification...

**nintura**

So theoretically, a TL-Lasgun from an ordered IG person would be 8 shots at half range?

**docdoom77**

Daedalus81 wrote:
Mymearan wrote:
I assume they added the "at half range" bit in error, or twin-linked weapons would be exactly the same as rapid fire weapons (and also those Twin Heavy Bolters would be way too sick).

That would make sense. Going to check facebook for clarification...

My plan as well. When it finally goes up on facebook.

**Crazyterran**

Yesterday was they said an ordered IG gets rapid fire 2 - so 4 shots at half range.

**Lithlandis Stormcrow**

nintura wrote:
So theoretically, a TL-Lasgun from an ordered IG person would be 8 shots at half range?

Indeed.

Also, I dislike the changes to the Battlecannon. It's WAY too random and not reliable at all. Random shots and wounds? Not convinced

**Spoletta**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Mymearan wrote:
I assume they added the "at half range" bit in error, or twin-linked weapons would be exactly the same as rapid fire weapons (and also those Twin Heavy Bolters would be way too sick).

Or rapid fire weapons now work differently.
I don't think we've seen the new rules for rapid fire and assault.

Rapid fire weapons double the shots at half range, we know this from the AM focus.

They clearly messed this up, twin linked weapon ALWAYS double shots going by that profile.

**En Excelsis**

Yikes!

So in summary:

Everything can hurt everything (in this case, all weapons received a slight buff)
Units can fire overwatch multiple times in a single game turn
All units gain an enhanced version of split-fire (fewer wasted shots)
Twin-Linked adds additional shots instead of re-rolls (condenses more damage into a single shoot phase).
Combi weapons can fire both weapon profiles at once.

But yeah, Close combat it totally gonna rock guys!

Thanks G dubs!

**nintura**

Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
nintura wrote:
So theoretically, a TL-Lasgun from an ordered IG person would be 8 shots at half range?

Indeed.

Also, I dislike the changes to the Battlecannon. It's WAY too random and not reliable at all. Random shots and wounds? Not convinced

It works for Bolt Action though.

**changemod**

Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
nintura wrote:
So theoretically, a TL-Lasgun from an ordered IG person would be 8 shots at half range?

Indeed.

Also, I dislike the changes to the Battlecannon. It's WAY too random and not reliable at all. Random shots and wounds? Not convinced

A battlecannon does anywhere between wounds one guardsman and blows all 18 wounds off a gorkanaut (both obviously extreme outliers).

**Nah Man Pichu**

Please post Facebook results when you get them.

**nintura**

changemod wrote:
Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
nintura wrote:
So theoretically, a TL-Lasgun from an ordered IG person would be 8 shots at half range?

Indeed.

Also, I dislike the changes to the Battlecannon. It's WAY too random and not reliable at all. Random shots and wounds? Not convinced

A battlecannon does anywhere between wounds one guardsman and blows all 18 wounds off a gorkanaut (both obviously extreme outliers).

That's an HE shell for you. They either hit and just do shrapnel damage, or they pen and blow up, causing catastrophic damage.

**Spoletta**

Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
nintura wrote:
So theoretically, a TL-Lasgun from an ordered IG person would be 8 shots at half range?

Indeed.

Also, I dislike the changes to the Battlecannon. It's WAY too random and not reliable at all. Random shots and wounds? Not convinced

The fact that on average that thing is not going to kill a tyranid warrior out of cover makes by bugs really happy, it used to be ID at 2+ with no save.

**Voodoo_Chile**

Looks like it's updated now reads

In the new Warhammer 40,000, twin-linked weapons instead get double the number of shots.

**Lithlandis Stormcrow**

nintura wrote:
Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
nintura wrote:
So theoretically, a TL-Lasgun from an ordered IG person would be 8 shots at half range?

Indeed.

Also, I dislike the changes to the Battlecannon. It's WAY too random and not reliable at all. Random shots and wounds? Not convinced

It works for Bolt Action though.

Never had the chance to play it, unfortunately. I guess time will tell but if I was an IG player I'd be... dismayed. I am guessing the Demolisher Cannon is going the same way.

**Brian888**

Perhaps Rapid Fire weapons only double shots at half range only if you didn't move in the movement phase, while Twin-Linked weapons double shots at half range regardless of whether you moved.

EDIT - Never mind, looks like there's an update.

**nintura**

Looks like they took the FB post down. Might be fixing it

**Matt.Kingsley**

They've edited the article to removed the whole half-range thing.

**docdoom77**

Article was updated. It's just double shots all the time.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Spoletta wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Mymearan wrote:
I assume they added the "at half range" bit in error, or twin-linked weapons would be exactly the same as rapid fire weapons (and also those Twin Heavy Bolters would be way too sick).

Or rapid fire weapons now work differently.
I don't think we've seen the new rules for rapid fire and assault.

Rapid fire weapons double the shots at half range, we know this from the AM focus.

They clearly messed this up, twin linked weapon ALWAYS double shots going by that profile.

Or...they could stack.
In the Imperial Guard example it says

This now makes a unit of Astra Militarum infantry treat their lasguns and hot-shot lasguns as Rapid Fire 2; that’s 4 shots per Guardsman at half range!

Rapid Fire could be a weapon type (like heavy 6), and Twin could be a modifier to weapon type (ie, a Twin Heavy Bolter is a heavy type weapon with the twin modifer.)
This means that a Twin Rapid Fire weapon would have quadruple the number of shots at close range (so rapid fire 2 gives 8 shots)

**DCannon4Life**

demontalons wrote:
And yes two linked heavy bolters will be able to shoot 12 at 18 inches.

This is very likely a typo or copy/paste error. From what we've seen so far, if a weapon has an ability, it is described in the weapon entry itself, or in the weapon "Type". Even if it's not x2 at half range, think of all the T-Linked weapon systems that are going to be putting more shots down range! Killy.