Latro_ wrote:

davethepak wrote:
I suspect some melee weapons will be combined - I mean, is a chain sword and chain axe really that different? If they were the same cost and effect, would it matter?

yes chain axes are ap4 and so far ap4 has transformed into a -1 armour save in 8th, plus my khorne berzerkers have loads of them so no no combine these XD

Terminal wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
I seriously would hope weapons are always written on the stat block/data card - that's part of the point for me of this system.

Put all the info you need in once place not have to keep flicking back and forth in different books or even worse watching people scroll desperately slowly on their tiny phone screens.

Look at all the weapon options on the Tactical Space Marine sprue, not to mention all the other options they can have. Missile Launcher, Flamer, Melta, Plasma, Grav, Combiweapons, Chain/Powersword, Plasma/Grav/Las Cannons, and more...

It would be a LONG data card if all of those were on it.

EDIT: I haven't seen much discussion on a neat tidbit from the FB roundup - that all tanks can now fire their weapons at different targets. Maybe it was just assumed by everybody when it was revealed that individual infantry could split fire.

But I look forward to using my Dreadnoughts and Stormtalons much more flexibly now.

 Mr Morden wrote:

Terminal wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
I seriously would hope weapons are always written on the stat block/data card - that's part of the point for me of this system.

Put all the info you need in once place not have to keep flicking back and forth in different books or even worse watching people scroll desperately slowly on their tiny phone screens.

Look at all the weapon options on the Tactical Space Marine sprue, not to mention all the other options they can have. Missile Launcher, Flamer, Melta, Plasma, Grav, Combiweapons, Chain/Powersword, Plasma/Grav/Las Cannons, and more...

It would be a LONG data card if all of those were on it.

EDIT: I haven't seen much discussion on a neat tidbit from the FB roundup - that all tanks can now fire their weapons at different targets. Maybe it was just assumed by everybody when it was revealed that individual infantry could split fire.

But I look forward to using my Dreadnoughts and Stormtalons much more flexibly now.

For me the datacard's they are using for AOS are large enough and with enough blank space to be able to do this not be this long.

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:

Having 7 to 10 all encompassing printed A4 pages for all my units on one corner of the table will be a blessing and huge step up. Heck, you'll even be able to hand them to hand them to your opponent and vice versa before the match so you can both glance over them quickly, see what you are facing and pre-emptively eliminate half of the rule discussions that would happen later...

 Crimson wrote:
It is unnecessary to shove all the weapons on unit datacards. A separate weapon datacard is perfectly fine. Most players have the weapon profiles memorised in no time anyway.

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
Out of curiosity, has there been any information on the new faction books?

For example what current factions they will coalesce into each book?

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
It is unnecessary to shove all the weapons on unit datacards. A separate weapon datacard is perfectly fine. Most players have the weapon profiles memorised in no time anyway.

If there is space on the card for the options why would you not do this - I would prefer my play aids to be as informative as possible.

mhsellwood wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... that Meltagun profile. The whole Melta special rule is written out on its profile. They're not going to do that for every single instance of the Meltagun where ever its printed, are they?

If AoS is any guide, then likely. Is that problematic if they do?

For some armies that's a lot of entries for wargear under every single unit.

If the common weapons aren't in the core rules I'd expect them to be listed in a single place for each army for easy stats reference tbh.

Yeah, given the commonalities of a lot of the weapons available within an army, and the range of potential weapon options for even pretty basic units I would think something like a weapon data sheet for each army - much like we have now in a codex. Then each unit would have in their datasheet something like, you get 4 marines all with bolters, bolt pistols and grenades and 1 sergeant with the following options: x, y, z. One model may replace their bolter with one of the following options: a,b,c. You may add five models to the unit. If you 10 models a second model may replace their bolter with one of the following options: a,b,c. No weapon profiles, but one source for all marine weapon profiles.

Main reason I think this is that the predominant theme seems to be simplicity, and much easier for a player (new ones particularly) to know that page 3 of their book tells them what a bolter does, and all that it does, rather than looking at the datasheet for every unit to check exactly what each weapon weapon does. It also avoids that age old problem of info being in multiple spots and one varies. What then? Is my melta gun on Sternguard actually 2D6 damage, or is it a misprint? Easier to have a common source of info for what a marine melta gun looks like, and then if you want special snowflake rules for one unit simply give them a unit rule to achieve that.

For myself the reason I have no issue in AoS with all weapons available to a unit being recorded on their datasheet is that even units with a mad variety only have maybe 4 or 5 weapons, and the chance to hit is tied to the unit. For 40K a marine unit would need what 20 odd lines? And their chance to hit is outside of this profile.

 Rippy wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
Out of curiosity, has there been any information on the new faction books?

For example what current factions they will coalesce into each book?

Not yet, there is a speculation thread in general discussion though if you are interested.

Edit: the original post of this thread has pretty much all the up to date information as well.

Kevin Lefevre Only imperium weapons again?
This is becoming a bad joke. Very disapointing.

Warhammer 40,000
Warhammer 40,000 That's actually the profile for a Chaos Space Marine Heavy Bolter....

Youn wrote:
On facebook the weapons are at least broken down by faction. They didn't exactly say they are on each datasheet but there is at least weapon charts per factions. Here is the question/answer

Kevin Lefevre Only imperium weapons again?
This is becoming a bad joke. Very disapointing.

Warhammer 40,000
Warhammer 40,000 That's actually the profile for a Chaos Space Marine Heavy Bolter....

 Rippy wrote:

The AP pattern so far has been for ranged weapons, I wouldn't be surprised if melee weapons have a better ap than they used to.

Zustiur wrote:

 Rippy wrote:

The AP pattern so far has been for ranged weapons, I wouldn't be surprised if melee weapons have a better ap than they used to.

That's what I've been thinking.

Rather than just hand waving, let's count the options on a tactical squad.
Bolter, Bolt pistol, 2 types of grenades
4 special
8 heavy, including 3 types of missile
Meltabombs
12 sergeant weapon options

29 by my count. That's a lot of info on one card before you even consider the unit profile and the special unit rules and the options with all their points

 Deadshot wrote:

Youn wrote:
On facebook the weapons are at least broken down by faction. They didn't exactly say they are on each datasheet but there is at least weapon charts per factions. Here is the question/answer

Kevin Lefevre Only imperium weapons again?
This is becoming a bad joke. Very disapointing.

Warhammer 40,000
Warhammer 40,000 That's actually the profile for a Chaos Space Marine Heavy Bolter....

I think they were attempting to be funny, as their responses thus far have consisted of poor clarification and joke responses ranging from "You can still do that if you want but its not smart," to "BUT TRY IT IS MUCH BETTER PROMISE" to "Tough gak asshat give us your money"

 CoreCommander wrote:

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:

Having 7 to 10 all encompassing printed A4 pages for all my units on one corner of the table will be a blessing and huge step up. Heck, you'll even be able to hand them to hand them to your opponent and vice versa before the match so you can both glance over them quickly, see what you are facing and pre-emptively eliminate half of the rule discussions that would happen later...

While warscrolls are handy for your units it is not that fast if you want to know all about an enemy unit and base your decisions in a game of inches and probabilities. It seemed all right at first, but then we hit a wall:

-Can I have a look on this unit?
-Sure. Here's the scroll page.
2 minutes later
-Do these have a banner?
-Yeah.
-Which one?
-The Blood banner. Also an instrument. The champion's got this special weapon and the other 2 dudes have these two (points at scroll).
-Ah, let me check them again. And your unit is 20 strong so this rule is in play and they've got +2 bravery?
-Yes, but they also get this one doodle from the doodle faction rules.

Multiply this over 3-4 units and come back at them on regular intervals because you happen to forget them. It slowed down the game for atleast the couple of times I got to introduce new units. I've taken to marking the relevant rules in an appropriate colour in the hope of shortening the above conversation which happens fairly regularly. I hope the 40k scrolls will be a lot tidier. In any case warscrolls are still better than the old unit profiles.

P.S. Personally I don't have any problem with the rules since my group is playing entirely with my collection, but this happens all the time to the other guys...

Thebiggesthat wrote:
Well it's been taken down again, strange.

It was for Rubric Marines. Had all weapons profiles, and some USR. Rubrics get a 5+ Invul and can shoot at full BS with heavy weapons. Can be lead by an inspiring sorcerer.

Also looked like there was a generic rule for all traitors called 'death to the false emperor'

Thebiggesthat wrote:Well it's been taken down again, strange.

It was for Rubric Marines. Had all weapons profiles, and some USR. Rubrics get a 5+ Invul and can shoot at full BS with heavy weapons. Can be lead by an inspiring sorcerer.

Also looked like there was a generic rule for all traitors called 'death to the false emperor'

tneva82 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
It is unnecessary to shove all the weapons on unit datacards. A separate weapon datacard is perfectly fine. Most players have the weapon profiles memorised in no time anyway.

If there is space on the card for the options why would you not do this - I would prefer my play aids to be as informative as possible.

20 upgrades or so might be tad hard to fit

 Deadshot wrote:



I think they were attempting to be funny, as their responses thus far have consisted of poor clarification and joke responses ranging from "You can still do that if you want but its not smart," to "BUT TRY IT IS MUCH BETTER PROMISE" to "Tough gak asshat give us your money"

 kronk wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
It is unnecessary to shove all the weapons on unit datacards. A separate weapon datacard is perfectly fine. Most players have the weapon profiles memorised in no time anyway.

If there is space on the card for the options why would you not do this - I would prefer my play aids to be as informative as possible.

20 upgrades or so might be tad hard to fit

I'm thinking the same. Chaos Chosen, Tactical Marines, SM Command Squads, and Tactical Marines would all be crammed with stuff.

Edit: I accidentally wrote Tactical Marines twice, but I'm leaving it.

Youn wrote:

Or it's exactly what they mean. They grabbed it off the Chaos Space marine Dataslate. The only things with Twin linked heavy bolters in chaos space marines are Predators, Landraiders and Helbrutes.