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So we have armor, which is ignorable by enough AP.
Then we have Invul saves, which is ignorable by mortal wounds.
Now we have Avatar saves, which (as far as we know) are not yet ignorable.

Do I have this right?

 Grinshanks wrote:

 nintura wrote:
New Eldar stuff up on the community site. The wailing doom is a melta melee weapon. Jesus.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/11/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-eldar/

Anyone else getting a little tired of the 'every option is viable now!' spiel?

I'm sure it's been shaken up and units that sucked might now be better, but inevitably there will be no brainer choices better than others which will just not be viable.

I think because it looks like the power curve has flattened out a bit it's possible everything actually will be viable. Sure some things will be better, even WAY better but it's possible they could have gotten it to the point where nothing is a liability at least.

 nintura wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 nintura wrote:
New Eldar stuff up on the community site. The wailing doom is a melta melee weapon. Jesus.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/11/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-eldar/

Hm...not a lot of substance but enough to make some things look pretty decent.

Makes me think the Avatar is really going to be a nasty piece of work.

I'm think 2+ to hit with shooting and melee, Str 8-10 (+2 from weapon) plus 9 or 10 wounds, vehicle level toughness, obviously a 2+/5++ or even 4++, ignores mortal wounds, Daemon as a keyword, grants power buff bubble to make Eldar hit harder and more Ld. And when they say even Guilliman should be cautious I'm thinking a feth load of attacks as well.

 Grinshanks wrote:

 nintura wrote:
New Eldar stuff up on the community site. The wailing doom is a melta melee weapon. Jesus.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/11/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-eldar/

Anyone else getting a little tired of the 'every option is viable now!' spiel?

I'm sure it's been shaken up and units that sucked might now be better, but inevitably there will be no brainer choices better than others which will just not be viable.

It's a matter of degrees of separation. Some things will be better, but marginally enough to not dissuade someone from taking something else and feeling bad about it.

Bring back the Avatar as a true WarGod is all I can say. For too long hes languished for several editions =/

 Deadshot wrote:


I'm think 2+ to hit with shooting and melee, Str 8-10 (+2 from weapon) plus 9 or 10 wounds, vehicle level toughness, obviously a 2+/5++ or even 4++, ignores mortal wounds, Daemon as a keyword, grants power buff bubble to make Eldar hit harder and more Ld. And when they say even Guilliman should be cautious I'm thinking a feth load of attacks as well.

11 wounds!

 JimOnMars wrote:
So we have armor, which is ignorable by enough AP.
Then we have Invul saves, which is ignorable by mortal wounds.
Now we have Avatar saves, which (as far as we know) are not yet ignorable.

Do I have this right?

Basically, yes. I doubt that they will make Ultra Mortal Wounds. Is just like AoS, but with a Invulnerable save here for... I don't know what reason.

The point here is... invulnerable saves are now as AoS? Where you can roll for save, and if you fail, roll for invulnerable save, or you only use it if you are hurt by a attack that makes your armour save worse than your invulnerable save?

Oh boy, here we go, a save that ignores wounds that ignore saves that ignore wounds that ignore saves.

 Alpharius wrote:
Hmmm...

Striking Scorpions particularly are just vicious combatants that will strike fear into your opponent and disrupt their battle plans with the Masters of Stealth special rule and their Mandiblasters softening up enemy units at the beginning of the Fight phase by dishing out mortal wounds.

Mortal Wounds - will they show up too often, ala AoS?

They tend to be on elite units and are used to rep up things that used to be similar to Hammer of Wrath attacks.

I think it's entirely appropriate for Mandiblasters to do them.

Howling Banshees get a new lease on life too. These girls are now faster than almost any other Infantry unit in the game, and nearly always get to go first in the Fight phase even if they didn’t charge.

And of course, there will always be 'exceptions to rules' and 'exceptions to exceptions', but will they show up too much as well?

"Exceptions to exceptions" are, shockingly, not that common in AoS.

I really don't think the author of the article quite understands what "a new lease on life" means though. Howling Banshees were still used pretty heavily in 7th; what with the Banshee Mask negating Overwatch(and against Tau; Supporting Fire).

 JimOnMars wrote:
So we have armor, which is ignorable by enough AP.
Then we have Invul saves, which is ignorable by mortal wounds.
Now we have Avatar saves, which (as far as we know) are not yet ignorable.

Do I have this right?

AoS has certain equipment that can shrug off mortal wounds in certain situations, but they're always unique to a unit.

 JimOnMars wrote:
So we have armor, which is ignorable by enough AP.
Then we have Invul saves, which is ignorable by mortal wounds.
Now we have Avatar saves, which (as far as we know) are not yet ignorable.

Do I have this right?

It may not be a save - simply the ability to ignore X wounds per turn - eg Manfred Von Carstein has in AOS, the ability to ignore 1 wound per round, normal or mortal (IIRC)

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Hmmm...

Striking Scorpions particularly are just vicious combatants that will strike fear into your opponent and disrupt their battle plans with the Masters of Stealth special rule and their Mandiblasters softening up enemy units at the beginning of the Fight phase by dishing out mortal wounds.

Mortal Wounds - will they show up too often, ala AoS?

They tend to be on elite units and are used to rep up things that used to be similar to Hammer of Wrath attacks.

I think it's entirely appropriate for Mandiblasters to do them.

Howling Banshees get a new lease on life too. These girls are now faster than almost any other Infantry unit in the game, and nearly always get to go first in the Fight phase even if they didn’t charge.

And of course, there will always be 'exceptions to rules' and 'exceptions to exceptions', but will they show up too much as well?

"Exceptions to exceptions" are, shockingly, not that common in AoS.

I really don't think the author of the article quite understands what "a new lease on life" means though. Howling Banshees were still used pretty heavily in 7th; what with the Banshee Mask negating Overwatch(and against Tau; Supporting Fire).

Really, banshees were used? I haven't seen Banshees mentioned on this forum in years. The only Eldar units I've seen mentioned over the last few years; Wraightknight, Wave Serpents, and of course: Scatterbikes. In fact I was almost convinced Scatterbikes were available in every slot because I only ever saw mention of Scatterbikes and scatbikes and yet more scatterbikes. Occassionally with an Invisibility and Prescience toting Seerbike. Support by Wraightknights.

So the Craftworld Eldar buffs we know:

+ Phoenix Lords have a 2+ save and give buffs to nearby friendly units
+ Asurman gives an Invul save inside a bubble and does Mortal Wounds in melee
+ Maniblasters do Mortal Wounds at the beginning of the Fight Phase (out of order activation?)
+ Howling Banshees are now one of the fastest moving units in the game and almost always go first, even when they didn't charge
+ Avatar of Khaine can ignore some mortal wounds (and likely still makes things Fearless, aka ignore Battle Shock)
+ The Wailing Doom:


And Battle Focus is still in so the run and shoot or shoot and run mobility is still there.

They better keep those mortal wounds limited to to Asurman, Striking Scorpions and very few other selected elite models and price them accordingly. If they simply turn all those Eldar D-weapons into Mortal Wound weapons they will either be completely broken or the most expensive army to field with the lowest model count. I am seriously not hopeful from reading the faction preview.

Good thing that if they end up being broken cheese again we can still at least raise hell and hopefully they will be addressed after a year.

So much for the hopes of Eldar being toned down to be on balance with everyone else

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So the Craftworld Eldar buffs we know:

+ Phoenix Lords have a 2+ save and give buffs to nearby friendly units
+ Asurman gives an Invul save inside a bubble and does Mortal Wounds in melee
+ Maniblasters do Mortal Wounds at the beginning of the Fight Phase (out of order activation?)
+ Howling Banshees are now one of the fastest moving units in the game and almost always go first, even when they didn't charge
+ Avatar of Khaine can ignore some mortal wounds (and likely still makes things Fearless, aka ignore Battle Shock)
+ The Wailing Doom:


And Battle Focus is still in so the run and shoot or shoot and run mobility is still there.

Requoting for bolded bit. If Banshee's have any level of canon to compensate their glass, I envision them being powerful, or powerful homebase objective campers. Hide them in cover to mitigate shooting, counterattack on next turn (say a 10" move followed by ~7" charge?), as well as the thing you absolutely DO NOT ever charge. However, if they are simply glass-pea-shooters and lack any real punch they will not be very much used.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
So we have armor, which is ignorable by enough AP.
Then we have Invul saves, which is ignorable by mortal wounds.
Now we have Avatar saves, which (as far as we know) are not yet ignorable.

Do I have this right?

It may not be a save - simply the ability to ignore X wounds per turn - eg Manfred Von Carstein has in AOS, the ability to ignore 1 wound per round, normal or mortal (IIRC)

Or like Archaon's Chaos Runeshield, where you can roll a D6 and save against Mortal Wounds.

Deadshot wrote:
Really, banshees were used? I haven't seen Banshees mentioned on this forum in years. The only Eldar units I've seen mentioned over the last few years; Wraightknight, Wave Serpents, and of course: Scatterbikes. In fact I was almost convinced Scatterbikes were available in every slot because I only ever saw mention of Scatterbikes and scatbikes and yet more scatterbikes. Occassionally with an Invisibility and Prescience toting Seerbike. Support by Wraightknights.

Really, because what gets mentioned on a forum=what actually gets played.

The units that got complained about on forums were those that stuck out in many peoples' minds. If you want to try to get snarky about the fact that Howling Banshees didn't get complained about, I don't know what to tell you. Obviously people felt they weren't units that were exceedingly bothersome.

Ragnar Blackmane wrote:They better keep those mortal wounds limited to to Asurman, Striking Scorpions and very few other selected elite models and price them accordingly. If they simply turn all those Eldar D-weapons into Mortal Wound weapons they will either be completely broken or the most expensive army to field with the lowest model count. I am seriously not hopeful from reading the faction preview.

Good thing that if they end up being broken cheese again we can still at least raise hell and hopefully they will be addressed after a year.

I think that it might be something like on a Wound roll of a 6, Distortion weaponry causes a Mortal Wound.

I was disappointed to see Battle Focus on the list. What's the point of move values if you keep adding weird movement abilities?

Hopefully it at least has a drawback. Like can shoot after advancing but shooting is at -1.

 Alpharius wrote:
Hmmm...

Striking Scorpions particularly are just vicious combatants that will strike fear into your opponent and disrupt their battle plans with the Masters of Stealth special rule and their Mandiblasters softening up enemy units at the beginning of the Fight phase by dishing out mortal wounds.

Mortal Wounds - will they show up too often, ala AoS?

Howling Banshees get a new lease on life too. These girls are now faster than almost any other Infantry unit in the game, and nearly always get to go first in the Fight phase even if they didn’t charge.

And of course, there will always be 'exceptions to rules' and 'exceptions to exceptions', but will they show up too much as well?

While there is more Mortal wounds in AoS, its not to often. Most of the game is close combat. So you got to get there, and its mostly leader or elite guys that do it.

40k might have less mortal wounds over all, but the amount of killing it has over AoS is waaaaay more, so its more deadly. But that's expected as its the future...with lasers

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
mandiblasters do mortal wounds??? Never imagined them as being specialized anti-titan weapons.

You want large amounts of multi-damage for anti-titan weapons. Mortal Wounds could very well be useless against titans if they deal single damage just by the sheer amount of wounds titans will have.

 docdoom77 wrote:
I was disappointed to see Battle Focus on the list. What's the point of move values if you keep adding weird movement abilities?

Hopefully it at least has a drawback. Like can shoot after advancing but shooting is at -1.

I dunno, I think that having some of the things that make armies feel fluffy have a place.

waaaaghs, synapse, battle forcus, combat squads; they've got their place making each army not just a different color and shape to the others.

 docdoom77 wrote:
I was disappointed to see Battle Focus on the list. What's the point of move values if you keep adding weird movement abilities?

Hopefully it at least has a drawback. Like can shoot after advancing but shooting is at -1.

The drawback could be that it only applies to units with the "Infantry" keyword.

Mortal wounds are used to counter elite infantry and small characters with high save. There are more efficient ways to down big stuff with lots of wounds.

 Kanluwen wrote:
They tend to be on elite units and are used to rep up things that used to be similar to Hammer of Wrath attacks.

I think it's entirely appropriate for Mandiblasters to do them.

Don\t think mandiblasters has ever been described as making attacks capable of punching effortlessly through titans armour...

That article mentioned mortal wounds tad too much. Game gets worse the more those are spammed.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:
I was disappointed to see Battle Focus on the list. What's the point of move values if you keep adding weird movement abilities?

Hopefully it at least has a drawback. Like can shoot after advancing but shooting is at -1.

The drawback could be that it only applies to units with the "Infantry" keyword.

That's not a drawback. Only infantry units can use it now. If you give Eldar a higher Move value AND let them run and shoot freely every turn, that sounds like just too much. But, my money is on it having an actual drawback of some kind.

tneva82 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
They tend to be on elite units and are used to rep up things that used to be similar to Hammer of Wrath attacks.

I think it's entirely appropriate for Mandiblasters to do them.

Don\t think mandiblasters has ever been described as making attacks capable of punching effortlessly through titans armour...

I don't think it ever said that it caused Mortal Wounds on Titans.

That article mentioned mortal wounds tad too much. Game gets worse the more those are spammed.

For all you know, Mandiblasters cause Mortal Wounds in combats against things with the Infantry or Monstrous Creature keywords.

Or they are just that mobile. They have short ranged weapons, so it's not that big of an issue and makes them interesting to play. They will hardly be able to run after shooting, because now you run in the movement phase.

Rather chuffed to have just started Thousand Sons a star my 'new edition, new army' project.

Models are stunning, and the rules look fun as well.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
So much for the hopes of Eldar being toned down to be on balance with everyone else

Yeah, I'm worried this might be another Eldar edition.
Like the last few ones
Then again, we haven't seen the rest of the factions. Maybe the other xenos factions and space marines have their own cheese.

 docdoom77 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:
I was disappointed to see Battle Focus on the list. What's the point of move values if you keep adding weird movement abilities?

Hopefully it at least has a drawback. Like can shoot after advancing but shooting is at -1.

The drawback could be that it only applies to units with the "Infantry" keyword.

That's not a drawback. Only infantry units can use it now. If you give Eldar a higher Move value AND let them run and shoot freely every turn, that sounds like just too much. But, my money is on it having an actual drawback of some kind.

Don't War Walkers and Jetbikes have Battle Focus?

I don't have a copy of the current Eldar book handy; could have swore they did.