40k New Edition Summary - 14th June 17: Lord Duncan paints Primaris in Gravis/non-codex SM focus

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**casvalremdeikun**

Coyote81 wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
If Eldar are priced appropriately for their power level, Eldar players will complain because they will have ten models on the field. If they are priced cheap for their power level, everyone else will complain because they are OP. Neither one of these scenarios will make people want to play Eldar (outside tournament players), so I really don't get why GW can't make an effort to balance them. A frickin' subsystem weapon that does Mortal Wounds. Not a big axe, or giant Cannon, but a fething pair of little nozzles on the side of their helmets that, up until recently, I didn't even know did anything.

You can't outshoot Eldar because their shooting is better than everyone else, you can't outfight them because of stupid gak like Mandiblasters and always attacking first, you can't outmaneuver them because they are the most mobile army in the game. Give them a frickin' drawback. One.

Lol, you don't even know how they work, they just mentioned. Maybe they have to roll 6's to would prefight to cause mortal wounds (This is something I've seen often on AoS models) It's far from OP and very fluffy. Just wait and see what the real rules are before ranting.

The fact they do Mortal Wounds at all is the moronic part. Because if a Leman Russ's Battle Cannon, with a barrel as wide as a Striking Scorpion model, doesn't do a mortal wound, but a pair of nozzles the width of a paperclip does do a mortal wound, they have gone way too far into the weeds.

**Nah Man Pichu**

I like how every leak brings with it it's own lasgun vs. land raider argument.

**Daedalus81**

Crimson wrote:
It is not about mandiblasters being OP, that's not my complaint. It is about this not making any sense, and the fact that this hints that MWs would be more prevalent in the game than I'd prefer.

IMHO, Mortal Wounds should be reserved to the most powerful weapons in the setting, and no one in their right mind (at least before these news) would have placed mandiblaster on that list.

Ok, that's fair enough. I can say that mortal wounds will be available to everyone. I doubt we'll see whole armies tossing nothing but though.

**ClockworkZion**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Coyote81 wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
If Eldar are priced appropriately for their power level, Eldar players will complain because they will have ten models on the field. If they are priced cheap for their power level, everyone else will complain because they are OP. Neither one of these scenarios will make people want to play Eldar (outside tournament players), so I really don't get why GW can't make an effort to balance them. A frickin' subsystem weapon that does Mortal Wounds. Not a big axe, or giant Cannon, but a fething pair of little nozzles on the side of their helmets that, up until recently, I didn't even know did anything.

You can't outshoot Eldar because their shooting is better than everyone else, you can't outfight them because of stupid gak like Mandiblasters and always attacking first, you can't outmaneuver them because they are the most mobile army in the game. Give them a frickin' drawback. One.

Lol, you don't even know how they work, they just mentioned. Maybe they have to roll 6's to would prefight to cause mortal wounds (This is something I've seen often on AoS models) It's far from OP and very fluffy. Just wait and see what the real rules are before ranting.
The fact they do Mortal Wounds at all is the moronic part. Because if a Leman Russ's Battle Cannon, with a barrel as wide as a Striking Scorpion model, doesn't do a mortal wound, but a pair of nozzles the width of a paperclip does do a mortal wound, they have gone way too far into the weeds.

Rending ignored all armour saves even that which could stand inside of an active plasma engine (Terminator Armour). In my book this is the same kind of thing as that.

**Daedalus81**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
The fact they do Mortal Wounds at all is the moronic part. Because if a Leman Russ's Battle Cannon, with a barrel as wide as a Striking Scorpion model, doesn't do a mortal wound, but a pair of nozzles the width of a paperclip does do a mortal wound, they have gone way too far into the weeds.

Must we really go over the difference between something like a high explosive round and a sabot round?

**JohnU**

Nah Man Pichu wrote:
I like how every leak brings with it it's own lasgun vs. land raider argument.

And if the rules allow conscripts and scorpions to be fielded together... Gork help us all.

**ClockworkZion**

JohnU wrote:
Nah Man Pichu wrote:
I like how every leak brings with it it's own lasgun vs. land raider argument.
And if the rules allow conscripts and scorpions to be fielded together... Gork help us all.

Allies must share a faction.

**Tyel**

Its probably something like roll a dice for every Scorpion and on a 6 you deal a mortal wound.

It will give them a little extra bite in close combat but its not necessarily something to write home about.

**Galas**

Vespid are gonna do Mortal Wounds. You hear it here first! Believe me! They are gonna be OP, great OP!

Don't be tricked by the name guys. They call them Mortal Wounds, but they just put where they thing it will be good to balance (I assume

), it has 0 to do with "fluff" or the actual power of the weapon. For example, in AoS, basically every Chariot (Boars, Chaos, etc...) or heavy cavalry like Bloodcrushers, do 1d3 Mortal Wounds on the charge, but they do it as a unit, not per model. Bloodcrushers for example do 1d3 Mortal Wounds to every enemy unit at 1" or less at the end of their charge, or 1d6 if the unit has 6 bloodcrushers or more. I expect something similar to the Scorpions. Don't be surprise when a boar charging you causes mortal wounds but being bite by a Dragon don't.

**casvalremdeikun**

Daedalus81 wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
The fact they do Mortal Wounds at all is the moronic part. Because if a Leman Russ's Battle Cannon, with a barrel as wide as a Striking Scorpion model, doesn't do a mortal wound, but a pair of nozzles the width of a paperclip does do a mortal wound, they have gone way too far into the weeds.

Must we really go over the difference between something like a high explosive round and a sabot round?

Depends, are we going to talk about how, when struck with a high explosive round, the Concussive force makes body armor a liability more than a boon? Turns out soft tissue striking a hard surface tends to not be good for the soft tissue. Or that a high explosive round should blow the survivors several feet in the air and long distances away from their original position? Besides, the force that would be required to eject a low caliber sabot round with enough force to penetrate thick armor instead of bouncing off would rip the head off the Eldar firing them. Most sabot rounds are tank weapons for a reason.

**ClockworkZion**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Daedalus81 wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
The fact they do Mortal Wounds at all is the moronic part. Because if a Leman Russ's Battle Cannon, with a barrel as wide as a Striking Scorpion model, doesn't do a mortal wound, but a pair of nozzles the width of a paperclip does do a mortal wound, they have gone way too far into the weeds.

Must we really go over the difference between something like a high explosive round and a sabot round?
Depends, are we going to talk about how, when struck with a high explosive round, the Concussive force makes body armor a liability more than a boon? Turns out soft tissue striking a hard surface tends to not be good for the soft tissue. Or that a high explosive round should blow the survivors several feet in the air and long distances away from their original position? Besides, the force that would be required to eject a low caliber sabot round with enough force to penetrate thick armor instead of bouncing off would rip the head off the Eldar firing them. Most sabot rounds are tank weapons for a reason.

Semantics aside, Mortal Wounds are likely replacing both the D mechanic as well as the Rending mechanic.

Eternal Warrior is likely turning into "can take saves against Mortal Wounds" or some kind of Mortal Wound soak ("half the number of mortal wounds dealt rounded up") as well.

We need to basically shelve our assumptions on why something should or should not do mortal wounds as they're just a classification of wounds you can't normally take saves against. The game is changing from the ground up, so let's try to not label things we haven't seen rules for as "broken".

**Daedalus81**

casvalremdeikun wrote:

Depends, are we going to talk about how, when struck with a high explosive round, the Concussive force makes body armor a liability more than a boon? Turns out soft tissue striking a hard surface tends to not be good for the soft tissue. Or that a high explosive round should blow the survivors several feet in the air and long distances away from their original position? Besides, the force that would be required to eject a low caliber sabot round with enough force to penetrate thick armor instead of bouncing off would rip the head off the Eldar firing them. Most sabot rounds are tank weapons for a reason.

Then why don't terminators liquefy in their suits from a powerful blast? We shouldn't even need to roll armor saves for that!

**Fenris-77**

I don't find it odd that dudes who are supposed to be masters of stealth and close combat might be able to use a precision plasma weapon to bypass armor and field saves, especially on the charge.

That said, the argument from fluff is really a non-starter at this point. We have no idea what the actual mechanic is, what might be affected, or how often or how many mortal wounds might be involved. Not that arguments from fluff matter to me much, but it is nice when things make sense. That's why, for now, barring further details, I'm just fine with the above fluff answer. Sure, those who are losing their e-shizz over this aren't going to stop, but I guess we all need hobbies.

**casvalremdeikun**

Daedalus81 wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:

Depends, are we going to talk about how, when struck with a high explosive round, the Concussive force makes body armor a liability more than a boon? Turns out soft tissue striking a hard surface tends to not be good for the soft tissue. Or that a high explosive round should blow the survivors several feet in the air and long distances away from their original position? Besides, the force that would be required to eject a low caliber sabot round with enough force to penetrate thick armor instead of bouncing off would rip the head off the Eldar firing them. Most sabot rounds are tank weapons for a reason.

Then why don't terminators liquefy in their suits from a powerful blast? We shouldn't even need to roll armor saves for that!

It probably has a lot to do with the physique of the Space Marine than anything. Again, the force required to project a sabot round with any level of penetration power is quite large. The sabot rounds used by the M1 Abrams are fired from its 120 mm cannon and the sabot itself is only 20-30 mm in width. Let's say that the Mandiblaster is a 50 Cal width (so about 13 mm in width). If it had the same level of reduction in size, it would be about 2-3 mm in width. With that little of mass, it would need astronomically high amounts of force to get it to penetrate armor. That force will be applied directly to the Eldar's neck.

Also, the fact a Battle Cannon still can wound Terminators and bypass their armor half of the time kind helps my argument on the Concussive force anyway...

**JohnHwangDD**

Mortal Wounds are just 3E AP all over again!

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Rippy wrote:
PLEASE read all information in OP before making assumptions on information, as those assumptions may already be covered by other articles.

Can I make bloodsumptions, though? Or murdersumptions?

**Rippy**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Rippy wrote:
PLEASE read all information in OP before making assumptions on information, as those assumptions may already be covered by other articles.

Can I make bloodsumptions, though? Or murdersumptions?

Yes.

**Insectum7**

Daedalus81 wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:

Depends, are we going to talk about how, when struck with a high explosive round, the Concussive force makes body armor a liability more than a boon? Turns out soft tissue striking a hard surface tends to not be good for the soft tissue. Or that a high explosive round should blow the survivors several feet in the air and long distances away from their original position? Besides, the force that would be required to eject a low caliber sabot round with enough force to penetrate thick armor instead of bouncing off would rip the head off the Eldar firing them. Most sabot rounds are tank weapons for a reason.

Then why don't terminators liquefy in their suits from a powerful blast? We shouldn't even need to roll armor saves for that!

Because Terminators weigh a ton, the suit is hard and pressurized, and the marine physique can handle Drop Pod landings.

**gungo**

Have they even said what mortal wounds do? Or is this AOS assumptions. Like did gw say mortal wounds ignore all most invul saves and armour saves? Does it automatically hit and ignore all cover and to hit modifiers? Does it go through void shields or powerfields on Titans? Is it on every hit or just on a 6 to wound? Seems like a lot of crying for something people know very little about.

**Daedalus81**

Well, see, I just spoke with a physics buddy of mine. He says he got to study a mandiblaster during his tenure as a professor. He stated that no known metal was able to stand up to the ingenious delivery device. Sadly terminator armor was not available for testing.

I guess we're at a stand still.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:
Have they even said what mortal wounds do? Or is this AOS assumptions. Like did gw say mortal wounds ignore all most invul saves and armour saves? Does it automatically hit and ignore all cover and to hit modifiers? Does it go through void shields or powerfields on Titans? Is it on every hit or just on a 6 to wound? Seems like a lot of crying for something people know very little about.

It ignores armor and invuln. The mechanism for delivery is going to vary, but it isn't quite the same as the AoS brand of mortal wounds.

**Azreal13**

gungo wrote:
Have they even said what mortal wounds do? Or is this AOS assumptions. Like did gw say mortal wounds ignore all most invul saves and armour saves? Does it automatically hit and ignore all cover and to hit modifiers? Does it go through void shields or powerfields on Titans? Is it on every hit or just on a 6 to wound? Seems like a lot of crying for something people know very little about.

They've strongly suggested it ignores armour and invul

Mortal Wounds are a new mechanic too – these cannot be saved by any means and punch straight through thick armour and even invulnerable saves! Ouch.

Whether certain unit types or items get some sort of dispensation, is still up for grabs.

**gungo**

Azreal13 wrote:
gungo wrote:
Have they even said what mortal wounds do? Or is this AOS assumptions. Like did gw say mortal wounds ignore all most invul saves and armour saves? Does it automatically hit and ignore all cover and to hit modifiers? Does it go through void shields or powerfields on Titans? Is it on every hit or just on a 6 to wound? Seems like a lot of crying for something people know very little about.

They've strongly suggested it ignores armour and invul

Mortal Wounds are a new mechanic too – these cannot be saved by any means and punch straight through thick armour and even invulnerable saves! Ouch.

Whether certain unit types or items get some sort of dispensation, is still up for grabs.

We already know based on khaine it's not every invul and armour. We have no idea if to hit modifiers like cover work which is a huge deterrent to mortal wounds. I doubt it works on power fields/void shields as they are a seperate entity in the last edition. And I have a feeling more things like imperial knight ion shield will deter most mortal wounds. And I'm fairly sure mortal wounds won't be on every hit for things like MB. In other words without knowing what it does we don't even know if it's that bad. It's already significantly weaker the stomp or str d and most mortal wounds weapons we have seen only do 1 wound and not the str8 ap-4 with 2d6 wounds and choose highest melta weapons which are significantly scarier and much more prevalent in 40k.

**Slave**

We don't need to see many more rules to know that Eldar are taking a turn for the OP. This is a terrible sign. Great, one more edition of Eldar dominance, while the rest of us get to watch the Eldar table everyone.

**Imateria**

Rippy wrote:
Galas wrote:
Rippy wrote:

I don't like that in the Eldar preview we saw that some units hit first regardless of the charge :(

They already said that in the Charge preview. Eldar and Daemonettes, units that before needed their Initiative to survive meele, will still hit first all the time. I have no problem with that.

I am aware they said there were some cases where units hit first regardless, but this makes it sound like it might be commonplace for some armies. Yes I understand those armies will be doomed without it in some cases, but I feel like there is a better way of mitigating it than making them unchargable for some armies.

Not really, there are absolutely some units that should go first as it's a major part of their fluff and has always formed part of the units game design. Howling Banshees are one of them, but I'm pretty sure Striking Scorpions wont be.

**gungo**

Slave wrote:
We don't need to see many more rules to know that Eldar are taking a turn for the OP. This is a terrible sign. Great, one more edition of Eldar dominance, while the rest of us get to watch the Eldar table everyone.

Really because to me the scariest army without changes right know is a Vulcan melta spam army? Twinlinked str8 ap-4 2d6 wounds choose highest and twinlinked flamer spam is considerable worst imho. Especially since it seems like invuls are no where near as prevalent as they use to be. Good luck charging them and good luck avoiding thier shooting range.

**Deadawake1347**

Spoiler:

Datasheets
Q: Warhammer 40,000 How many of you man this page? Or is did some poor guardsmen just get locked up in a room to field the unending wave of questions?
A: Just one of us... One soul standing against the tide. Much like Sly Marbo, but somewhat less heroic and chiseled.

Q: Warhammer 40,000 hey can we have the slightest hint of necron stuff in the next teaser please? the red harvest must begin!
A: *This message has been formatted so only true Necrontyr can read it.

Q: Hey guys @Warhammer 40,000, would you consider doing deep strike rules preview ?
A: We can consider it...

Q: You guys are savage and have no chill when it comes to absolutely destroying people, how can I become a member of the community team?
A: You should have seen the quadra-savage reply we typed out... but then thought better of it...!

Q: will weapons have point value's?
also if an aspiring sorcerer can move 6" and the rest of hits unit can move 5" doesn't that mean the sorcerer can only move 5"?
A: It means he can move slightly faster, so long as he stays with his unit.

Q: Give me the new protocols for my Necron minions or you will be harvested.
A: Errrr.....sure thing! We'll get right on it!

Q: Hey GW, will you release a datasheet for khorne berzerkers anytime soon?? (Hopefully before 8th hits) Ever since the CSM faction focus, i am super hyped to see what you have in mind with those lobotomised nutjobs
A: We haven't released anything yet.... but by Jimminy.... they are just as good in combat as you hope them to be....

Q: Well.. definitely will take some getting used too. I do like the effort to balance out the game.
A: It's just not the same without your Marbo memes.

Q: Love all the articles! We would love you to throw us a little more Xenos examples. We have heard a ton about the factions of Man, and just a splash about Orks. Can we please have more splashs of Xenos? <3
A: We like splashing Xenos.... all over the wall with a boltgun.

More Xenos bits on the way REAL soon...

Q: I have only one burning question for 8th -
Will Shadow Captain Shrike's new datasheet reflect his ascension to Chapter Master of the Raven Guard?
A: If that's your only question, we're doing something right. Not sure on that specific detail right now - we will have wait for the rules to appear.

Q: So given that the Rubric Marines have no special ability that allows them to charge after using Rapid Fire and Heavy weapons in the shooting phase, am I correct to assume all units can do that now?
A: Assumptions are a dangerous thing, Oliver...!

Q: That is a seriously better format than how it was handled in the past, very well done.

BUT, are the point costs cropped out of the datasheet or are there going to be multiple versions? Might get bloaty..
A: No bloaty-ness here. Loads more on points coming tomorrow.

Q: I didn't get to post this in time yesterday to be relevant but here we go. First, I'd like to say the new rules are cool. But, I do have a concern. As a chaos player who favors his dinobots and dragons, I'm concerned that the weapon loadouts for the forgefiends (2 hadesautocannons and plasma cannon at +25pts) and heldrakes (with either a baleflamer, whos profile no longer works in 8th, or a single hadesautocannon) were somewhat wanting for the 175 point costs but now units that are cheaper with more weapon sets and/or twinlinked weapons will not only be better (as they kinda were with upgrade capabilities) but completely outshine them or render them useless?
A: Fair comment, James. Chances are that our exstensive group of playtesters will have looked at this and a new, appropriate points value assigned. We aren't just about to change how good a model is without changing it's points value.

Q: Hello new(tm) games workshop, i'd like to ask a badly worded question about whether you'll answer this question and if you do do so will this question be answered? Also if you're doing an article on points values could you tell us how many points my personal favourite, the haruspex, will cost. (How can you not love that face?)
A: Hello, Peter - we'd like to provide a suitably vague yet teasing response about being more than happy to answer your question.

The Haruspex definitely has a points value, but we haven't revealed it yet. As such,we can't mention it yet, despite your obviously adorable face.

Q: This all looks great!!! *Oliver Twist-style pleading request* Adeptus sororitas faction feature/teaser?? cough cough 'obligatory plastic sisters comment' cough cough
A: The Faction Focus article is on it's way for sure.

Q: Love the articles!
Can we expect to see some info on the inquisition? Really want to know how they will be in 8th, like are they a full force on their own, or are they more of an add-on to other armies?
A: Indeed - there will be a focus article on the Imperial Agents for sure.

Q: I assume that point costs is kept separate from unit profiles in order to facilitate easier updates in the future, without invalidating the entire book, or are points supposed to be kept completely outside the codices, in a dedicated book?
A: Assuming is a dangerous past time, Marcin! Check out tomorrow's article on points for more.

Q: On the data sheet it doesn't say what an icon of flame does (unless I missed it), will there be a section of banners and such that all armies have access to?
A: Maybe! It wouldn't be a teaser if we just flat our told you everything, now would it?!

Q: I feel like the page is very busy. And I'm curious about the power rating.... Are the matched play points cost going to be a big list like in AoS's General's Handbook?
A: You will find out loads more in tomorrow's points article.

Q: Nice. So much info on one sheet. Loving it.
First look at melee weapons too. No range - so who gets to fight in cc?
A: More on that real soon.

Q: Will there be a points version of these data sheets for more balanced games?
A: Sounds like you need to tune in to tomorrow's article all about points!

Q: Nice. So the aspiring champion only knows smite? Or will there be another table / sheet for what powers he has access to ?
A: We haven't covered that yet; more on psychic powers coming later.

Q: But GW, where oh where will the points values be listed for matched play?
A: There's every chance that will be covered by tomorrow's "points and power levels" article...

Q: DANGEROUS ASSUMPTION ALERT

I'm assuming that psychic powers will be assigned from a book via keyword as I see no other reference there?
A: DANGEROUS ASSUMPTION DETECTED
Fear not, Assumptee... loads more information will be coming. Enlightenment is coming to these dark times.

Q: the lack of points scares the bejesus out of me... and i'm still not happy about losing templates!... going to need a lot more detail before i'm sold
A: What up, Leigh; Guildford represent! Points are still a thing, my fellow Baboon Samurai. Watch out for more on those tomorrow in the "points and power level" article.

Q: Power ranking besides points? Ohhh no.... "We finally really did it. You maniacs! You blew it up!"
A: There will be both! Tune in to the article all about points tomorrow.

Q: Rubrics! Huzzah! I have to wonder... what does the Icon of Flame do...?
A: Looks like you'll have to wait to find out that one!

Q: Awesome job! Any chance you'll go over the difference between Force weapons & Power weapons in a future article?
A: Of course we can. More articles planned in the future about melee weapons.

Q: Will these sheets be available in cards similar to Psychic Power cards?
A: No news on that right now. .

Q: What exactly is power rating? Is it the same thing as power level that you wrote later in the article?
A: All will be covered in tomorrow's article, fear not.

Q: If the Matched play points aren't going to be on the sheets where will they be? Will we need another book to view these?
A: Tune in tomorrow for the points and power level article and all will be revealed...

Q: Will there be another Datasheet for competitive game?
A: If you mean a points value, then looks like you need to tune into tomorrow's article entitled "points and power levels"....

Q: You tell us what... Death to the False Emperor does? **cheeky grin
A: Not yet...

Q: Will we have a look at the real points system before the release ?
A: Hey Quentin - sure thing - watch out tomorrow for an article all about points.

Q: Great article!!! Will you make an article about Renegades ?
A: You mean the Forge World models? We are focusing on the main Citadel factions for the articles.

Q: I thought invulnerable saves were gone?
A: Not at all - they are right there!

Q: Great stuff but why not call them "dataslates"
A: ...because they are on a sheet. We wanted to put them on slate but it made the rules too heavy...

Q: Can we get a look at Ork boyz?? Please!!
A: There are literally hundreds of units in the game and we wish we had the time to sho...*SMACK*.

"Give us da roolz,you puny 'umie! Don't make 'im ask again else I'll krump yer good"

Eldar Faction Focus
Q: If you say Banshees will be one of the fastest troops in the game then i really wonder what you guys have in store for Harlequins!
Can i expect my fellow clowns to be at the same speed or even faster?!
A: We shall but see!

Q: Are we going to be seeing Aspect Warriors in plastic any time soon, or are we still going to be relegated to Finecast?
A: We have no news on models right now, Andrew - if we ever do hear anything, you will see it here first!

Q: Wait, didn't Fulgrim kill an Avatar by putting it in a headlock and strangling it to death? If so, Guilliman shouldn't fear anything.
A: Besides... Guillian kills three Avatars every day before breakfast. For fun. With a butter knife.

Or so we heard.

Q: You guys better release a skitarii or cult mech (or maybe both) faction focus or the might of the Omnissiah shall make all your computer's unbearably slow.
A: We were wondering why the internet was dropping like a Guardsman in a trench. Now we know.

Q: I'm hoping the Wraithseer will get a datasheet and awesome rules.
A: Guys -with models like that, we are not sure about what is coming yet as FW haven't released information on their rules. As soon as we have it, we will be able to let you know.

Q: When we will have some love for the Custodian Guard?

Soon™, Really Soon™...?

And also, will we have this articles until release? Or will they continue after 8th is available?
A: There will indeed be some more articles coming Real, Real Soon!™

Q: I think Warhammer 40,000 is holding off on the Ork faction preview trying to build up the Waaagh...
A: Savin' da best fer later!

Q: Isn't Reece Robbins the Frontline gaming guy with them awesome Youtube batrep videos?
A: It is indeed him. He has the coolest voice!

Q: This information is completely wrong ... please see the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer for correct info on the Eldar. If you see anyone reading this info please report them to your Commisar!
A: That's how you get promoted around here, trooper!

Q1: Any chance of seeing a Necron profile soon?
A1: You mean.... like this?
Q2: Oh...
Games Workshop.
A2: I know what you're thinking. You're thinking "These guys are better than that, right?!".

But we're not. If there is a pun to be had, we will take it.

Q: Will Ynnari remain or have that army just been discarded?
A: You will 100% be able to use that army.

Is anyone else getting tired of the... Hmm... since I don't want to trigger the language filter, let's go with "wise" responses from GW to people's questions? The standout here being the Necron profile one, but there have been several examples in the recent FAQs, including the 8th edition announcements. Once or twice with obviously joking questions might be cute, but this has quickly become annoying to me.

**Fenris-77**

I thought the Necron profile response was hilarious.

**Yodhrin**

Coyote81 wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
If Eldar are priced appropriately for their power level, Eldar players will complain because they will have ten models on the field. If they are priced cheap for their power level, everyone else will complain because they are OP. Neither one of these scenarios will make people want to play Eldar (outside tournament players), so I really don't get why GW can't make an effort to balance them. A frickin' subsystem weapon that does Mortal Wounds. Not a big axe, or giant Cannon, but a fething pair of little nozzles on the side of their helmets that, up until recently, I didn't even know did anything.

You can't outshoot Eldar because their shooting is better than everyone else, you can't outfight them because of stupid gak like Mandiblasters and always attacking first, you can't outmaneuver them because they are the most mobile army in the game. Give them a frickin' drawback. One.

Lol, you don't even know how they work, they just mentioned. Maybe they have to roll 6's to would prefight to cause mortal wounds (This is something I've seen often on AoS models) It's far from OP and very fluffy. Just wait and see what the real rules are before ranting.

Really though, why is anyone even here then? Why not just shut down the whole N&R forum and replace it with a link to Atia and BOLS?

It's a discussion forum, for discussion, where we discuss things. The disclaimer that we're discussing incomplete information and so our discussions are by their very nature provisional is inherent to the place, it doesn't need to be stated constantly, and people don't need to be constantly reminded of it. This is by no means only directed at you, there's half a dozen posters on here who seem to come and contribute almost nothing bar accusations of negativity and demands that people stop engaging in the entire purpose of the forum; speculative discourse based on rumours as we understand them at any given time.

As to Mortal Wounds - I can see exactly where folk wary of them are coming from. They seem to be popping up everywhere, and that's going to cause issues, not least with smaller size games - if they include MWs, as I suspect they are, at levels designed to help streamline play with large armies by ramping up casualties, then smaller games will be pointlessly short if you come up against an enemy capable of spamming them. Now, a lot of stuff has been breaking smaller games in recent times thanks to the shoehorning of Apocalypse units into standard play, but it's a hell of a lot easier to prohibit whole classes of unit and be left with a game of similar functionality to before such things were added, than it is trying to excise or mitigate a fundamental game mechanic that it seems a lot of units are going to be balanced around.

But stuff like this is the inevitable result of trying to push game time down to under 90 minutes without meaningfully reducing the size of armies.

**Azreal13**

Really though, why is anyone even here then? Why not just shut down the whole N&R forum and replace it with a link to Atia and BOLS?

It's a discussion forum, for discussion, where we discuss things. The disclaimer that we're discussing incomplete information and so our discussions are by their very nature provisional is inherent to the place, it doesn't need to be stated constantly, and people don't need to be constantly reminded of it. This is by no means only directed at you, there's half a dozen posters on here who seem to come and contribute almost nothing bar accusations of negativity and demands that people stop engaging in the entire purpose of the forum; speculative discourse based on rumours as we understand them at any given time.

The reverse is also true, there's a good handful of posters whose sole argument is "this is change, and I don't like it" dressed up in any number of ad hoc justifications.

Nevertheless, the issue is not people discussing it, the issue is people discussing it using
a) paradigms that conclusively no longer apply or
b) ridiculous extrapolations based on small pieces of information.

If we could all get out of those habits, then actual discussion of the new stuff might break out and the mods would all have an easier time.

Thread would move a lot slower though.

**Red Corsair**

Deadawake1347 wrote:

Spoiler:

Datasheets
Q: Warhammer 40,000 How many of you man this page? Or is did some poor guardsmen just get locked up in a room to field the unending wave of questions?
A: Just one of us... One soul standing against the tide. Much like Sly Marbo, but somewhat less heroic and chiseled.

Q: Warhammer 40,000 hey can we have the slightest hint of necron stuff in the next teaser please? the red harvest must begin!
A: *This message has been formatted so only true Necrontyr can read it.

Q: Hey guys @Warhammer 40,000, would you consider doing deep strike rules preview ?
A: We can consider it...

Q: You guys are savage and have no chill when it comes to absolutely destroying people, how can I become a member of the community team?
A: You should have seen the quadra-savage reply we typed out... but then thought better of it...!

Q: will weapons have point value's?
also if an aspiring sorcerer can move 6" and the rest of hits unit can move 5" doesn't that mean the sorcerer can only move 5"?
A: It means he can move slightly faster, so long as he stays with his unit.

Q: Give me the new protocols for my Necron minions or you will be harvested.
A: Errrr.....sure thing! We'll get right on it!

Q: Hey GW, will you release a datasheet for khorne berzerkers anytime soon?? (Hopefully before 8th hits) Ever since the CSM faction focus, i am super hyped to see what you have in mind with those lobotomised nutjobs
A: We haven't released anything yet.... but by Jimminy.... they are just as good in combat as you hope them to be....

Q: Well.. definitely will take some getting used too. I do like the effort to balance out the game.
A: It's just not the same without your Marbo memes.

Q: Love all the articles! We would love you to throw us a little more Xenos examples. We have heard a ton about the factions of Man, and just a splash about Orks. Can we please have more splashs of Xenos? <3
A: We like splashing Xenos.... all over the wall with a boltgun.

More Xenos bits on the way REAL soon...

Q: I have only one burning question for 8th -
Will Shadow Captain Shrike's new datasheet reflect his ascension to Chapter Master of the Raven Guard?
A: If that's your only question, we're doing something right. Not sure on that specific detail right now - we will have wait for the rules to appear.

Q: So given that the Rubric Marines have no special ability that allows them to charge after using Rapid Fire and Heavy weapons in the shooting phase, am I correct to assume all units can do that now?
A: Assumptions are a dangerous thing, Oliver...!

Q: That is a seriously better format than how it was handled in the past, very well done.

BUT, are the point costs cropped out of the datasheet or are there going to be multiple versions? Might get bloaty..
A: No bloaty-ness here. Loads more on points coming tomorrow.

Q: I didn't get to post this in time yesterday to be relevant but here we go. First, I'd like to say the new rules are cool. But, I do have a concern. As a chaos player who favors his dinobots and dragons, I'm concerned that the weapon loadouts for the forgefiends (2 hadesautocannons and plasma cannon at +25pts) and heldrakes (with either a baleflamer, whos profile no longer works in 8th, or a single hadesautocannon) were somewhat wanting for the 175 point costs but now units that are cheaper with more weapon sets and/or twinlinked weapons will not only be better (as they kinda were with upgrade capabilities) but completely outshine them or render them useless?
A: Fair comment, James. Chances are that our exstensive group of playtesters will have looked at this and a new, appropriate points value assigned. We aren't just about to change how good a model is without changing it's points value.

Q: Hello new(tm) games workshop, i'd like to ask a badly worded question about whether you'll answer this question and if you do do so will this question be answered? Also if you're doing an article on points values could you tell us how many points my personal favourite, the haruspex, will cost. (How can you not love that face?)
A: Hello, Peter - we'd like to provide a suitably vague yet teasing response about being more than happy to answer your question.

The Haruspex definitely has a points value, but we haven't revealed it yet. As such,we can't mention it yet, despite your obviously adorable face.

Q: This all looks great!!! *Oliver Twist-style pleading request* Adeptus sororitas faction feature/teaser?? cough cough 'obligatory plastic sisters comment' cough cough
A: The Faction Focus article is on it's way for sure.

Q: Love the articles!
Can we expect to see some info on the inquisition? Really want to know how they will be in 8th, like are they a full force on their own, or are they more of an add-on to other armies?
A: Indeed - there will be a focus article on the Imperial Agents for sure.

Q: I assume that point costs is kept separate from unit profiles in order to facilitate easier updates in the future, without invalidating the entire book, or are points supposed to be kept completely outside the codices, in a dedicated book?
A: Assuming is a dangerous past time, Marcin! Check out tomorrow's article on points for more.

Q: On the data sheet it doesn't say what an icon of flame does (unless I missed it), will there be a section of banners and such that all armies have access to?
A: Maybe! It wouldn't be a teaser if we just flat our told you everything, now would it?!

Q: I feel like the page is very busy. And I'm curious about the power rating.... Are the matched play points cost going to be a big list like in AoS's General's Handbook?
A: You will find out loads more in tomorrow's points article.

Q: Nice. So much info on one sheet. Loving it.
First look at melee weapons too. No range - so who gets to fight in cc?
A: More on that real soon.

Q: Will there be a points version of these data sheets for more balanced games?
A: Sounds like you need to tune in to tomorrow's article all about points!

Q: Nice. So the aspiring champion only knows smite? Or will there be another table / sheet for what powers he has access to ?
A: We haven't covered that yet; more on psychic powers coming later.

Q: But GW, where oh where will the points values be listed for matched play?
A: There's every chance that will be covered by tomorrow's "points and power levels" article...

Q: DANGEROUS ASSUMPTION ALERT

I'm assuming that psychic powers will be assigned from a book via keyword as I see no other reference there?
A: DANGEROUS ASSUMPTION DETECTED
Fear not, Assumptee... loads more information will be coming. Enlightenment is coming to these dark times.

Q: the lack of points scares the bejesus out of me... and i'm still not happy about losing templates!... going to need a lot more detail before i'm sold
A: What up, Leigh; Guildford represent! Points are still a thing, my fellow Baboon Samurai. Watch out for more on those tomorrow in the "points and power level" article.

Q: Power ranking besides points? Ohhh no.... "We finally really did it. You maniacs! You blew it up!"
A: There will be both! Tune in to the article all about points tomorrow.

Q: Rubrics! Huzzah! I have to wonder... what does the Icon of Flame do...?
A: Looks like you'll have to wait to find out that one!

Q: Awesome job! Any chance you'll go over the difference between Force weapons & Power weapons in a future article?
A: Of course we can. More articles planned in the future about melee weapons.

Q: Will these sheets be available in cards similar to Psychic Power cards?
A: No news on that right now. .

Q: What exactly is power rating? Is it the same thing as power level that you wrote later in the article?
A: All will be covered in tomorrow's article, fear not.

Q: If the Matched play points aren't going to be on the sheets where will they be? Will we need another book to view these?
A: Tune in tomorrow for the points and power level article and all will be revealed...

Q: Will there be another Datasheet for competitive game?
A: If you mean a points value, then looks like you need to tune into tomorrow's article entitled "points and power levels"....

Q: You tell us what... Death to the False Emperor does? **cheeky grin
A: Not yet...

Q: Will we have a look at the real points system before the release ?
A: Hey Quentin - sure thing - watch out tomorrow for an article all about points.

Q: Great article!!! Will you make an article about Renegades ?
A: You mean the Forge World models? We are focusing on the main Citadel factions for the articles.

Q: I thought invulnerable saves were gone?
A: Not at all - they are right there!

Q: Great stuff but why not call them "dataslates"
A: ...because they are on a sheet. We wanted to put them on slate but it made the rules too heavy...

Q: Can we get a look at Ork boyz?? Please!!
A: There are literally hundreds of units in the game and we wish we had the time to sho...*SMACK*.

"Give us da roolz,you puny 'umie! Don't make 'im ask again else I'll krump yer good"

Eldar Faction Focus
Q: If you say Banshees will be one of the fastest troops in the game then i really wonder what you guys have in store for Harlequins!
Can i expect my fellow clowns to be at the same speed or even faster?!
A: We shall but see!

Q: Are we going to be seeing Aspect Warriors in plastic any time soon, or are we still going to be relegated to Finecast?
A: We have no news on models right now, Andrew - if we ever do hear anything, you will see it here first!

Q: Wait, didn't Fulgrim kill an Avatar by putting it in a headlock and strangling it to death? If so, Guilliman shouldn't fear anything.
A: Besides... Guillian kills three Avatars every day before breakfast. For fun. With a butter knife.

Or so we heard.

Q: You guys better release a skitarii or cult mech (or maybe both) faction focus or the might of the Omnissiah shall make all your computer's unbearably slow.
A: We were wondering why the internet was dropping like a Guardsman in a trench. Now we know.

Q: I'm hoping the Wraithseer will get a datasheet and awesome rules.
A: Guys -with models like that, we are not sure about what is coming yet as FW haven't released information on their rules. As soon as we have it, we will be able to let you know.

Q: When we will have some love for the Custodian Guard?

Soon™, Really Soon™...?

And also, will we have this articles until release? Or will they continue after 8th is available?
A: There will indeed be some more articles coming Real, Real Soon!™

Q: I think Warhammer 40,000 is holding off on the Ork faction preview trying to build up the Waaagh...
A: Savin' da best fer later!

Q: Isn't Reece Robbins the Frontline gaming guy with them awesome Youtube batrep videos?
A: It is indeed him. He has the coolest voice!

Q: This information is completely wrong ... please see the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer for correct info on the Eldar. If you see anyone reading this info please report them to your Commisar!
A: That's how you get promoted around here, trooper!

Q1: Any chance of seeing a Necron profile soon?
A1: You mean.... like this?
Q2: Oh...
Games Workshop.
A2: I know what you're thinking. You're thinking "These guys are better than that, right?!".

But we're not. If there is a pun to be had, we will take it.

Q: Will Ynnari remain or have that army just been discarded?
A: You will 100% be able to use that army.

Is anyone else getting tired of the... Hmm... since I don't want to trigger the language filter, let's go with "wise" responses from GW to people's questions? The standout here being the Necron profile one, but there have been several examples in the recent FAQs, including the 8th edition announcements. Once or twice with obviously joking questions might be cute, but this has quickly become annoying to me.

Not really, I mean you have ONE guy responding to the same questions Ad Nauseum and to top it off most of the questions he can't actually answer. "What are the necron profiles?" Seriously? I think it is hilarious and appropriate for him to take it light heatedly and actually have fun engaging with the community. Otherwise all you would get are copy paste pre screened customer response messages like "Just wait and see!" or "I can't give you that info just yet, but hang tight!" over and over and over endlessly. At least this way he is giving the company some personality and taking some of the angst and doom and gloom away.